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On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Sue Silver wrote:
> We are a nation under the rule of law. If we do not enforce the laws, then
> we will be a nation under the rule of anarchy. If the laws are bad, work to
> change them.
No can do. I don't have the millions, even billions that some companies
do to pay off law makers. They constantly pass unconstitutional laws like
the Constitution doesn't even exist. The whole thing is a mess. I have
heard anti-gun folk brag about getting minor crimes turned into felonies
just so more people can't own guns. Also, incase you have not paid
attention, anarchy is already here. People seem to think to have anarchy,
the whole nation has to be rioting. Wrong. There were riots in LA, the
bombing of a government building in OK City, riots in Cinnci. I was in
touch with two people who lived in Cinnci. Oh, and lets not forget
Seattle when the anti-WTO protesters left the city trashed.
Well, RVKeller, I guess I am insane about sacred things. I guess I am this
way because if I do what I can so my children respect things as sacred I feel
that another generation has been prepared to take over should I ever grow
tired. If it was my Great Great Great Grandfathers grave I'd want to hunt the
"evil doer" down like a dog. But I do not want anyone to go to jail and I
have not read the article yet to understand if the monument was removed on
purpose or accidently. I will fix a cup of coffee and go read the articles
now. Have a great day!
NTFCannon(a)Aol.Com (Tom Cannon)
In a message dated 12/28/01 8:40:15 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
rvkeller(a)iupui.edu writes:
> I have some questions for the group: 1: Is one legally bound to let a
> prospective buyer of a property know that a cemetary is located on their
> land?
First a Correction ; (Cemetery)
The Law requires that when a piece of Property is Sold a Notice
must be Printed in Bold Type across the Front of the Deed at the bottom of
the first page stating "There is a Known Burial site or Graveyard located on
this Property" It then becomes the responsibility of the Purchaser to either
Obey, or Disobey the Laws concerning Cemeteries. This shows he has been put
on Notice.The Purchasers have that right. If you don't want to be charged
with a Felony and get all of the Goodies that goes along with the Charge,
then DON'T Break the law carrying the Charge. This Gentleman may feel like he
is being made an Example for others, If this is the case, so be it. You must
have a First in anything. To bad he was so Ignorant and uncaring that he
should be made an example of. We can't break Laws that common sense tells us
is wrong, and then plead Ignorance to get out of what we knew, at least in
our hearts was wrong. If he gets off, so be it. If not maybe others will heed
the Laws that he chose to break. This is a fine example to see if the Law has
any meaning, or is a waste of time. Also if this Graveyard notice is not on
the Deed, then the Responsibility for Expenses incurred for the Cemetery
becomes the Responsibility of the Seller who failed to note the presence of
the Graveyard even if it has been dropped from HIS DEED. He is presumed to
know of it's presence on his property. If anyone feels I am wrong, please,
don't hesitate to tell me. I feel that all opinions on this Subject are
important, and I welcome them. Open discussion is a way for us to resolve any
failures in our Cemetery Laws.
Jack E. Briles, Sr.
jb502000(a)aol.com
Floyd County INPCRP Coordinator
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
In a message dated 12/27/01 10:04:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Kadyfoster(a)aol.com writes:
> Good News: A man has been charged with disturbing a cemetery without a
> permit, a class D felon, cemetery mischief, a class A misdemeanor, and
> moving
> a grave memorial without recording, a class C misdemeanor. Officers Jeff
> Atwood and Buck Stogsdill of the DNR investigated.
>
> Let us watch and hope.
>
> David W Foster
> Monroe County
>
>
>
Thanks for the Report David,
Now lets see if the DNR will follow through and see that the individual is
thoroughly prosecuted by Local officials, or gets his hand slapped and told
not to be a Bad Boy again. Either the Law will work or fall flat on it's
face. It depends on this case. If this one drifts by, then the Legislature
has wasted it's time. We'll see.
Jack E. Briles, Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
I guess I am insane about sacred things. I guess I am this way so that I
teach my children what is sacred to prepare them as well adjusted happy men
and women. So they can make the world a better place. Call me old fashion.
Call me insane if that were my Great Great Great Grandfathers grave I'd want
to hunt the 'evil doer' down like a dog. Although I do not want to see anyone
go to jail some ratifacation is justifiable.
NTFCannon(a)Aol.Com (Tom Cannon)
I have some questions for the group: 1: Is one legally bound to let a
prospective buyer of a property know that a cemetary is located on their
land? 2: The felony will most likely be dropped. I would advise this guy
to go not guilty until a plea is written that drops the felony. A felony
charge for this is insane. Losing the rights that come from this is just
another example of over reaction. Class A misdemeanor is a 1 year jail
sentence, that should be plenty. 3: I am still not clear on who _owns_
these cemetaries. Did state law take this land and give it to the
counties? I am thinking this is the case since now people get that
property tax free. But who cares for it? Thanks, ryan
On Thu, 27 Dec 2001 Kadyfoster(a)aol.com wrote:
> The Bad News: Another cemetery as been destroyed. The Fleetwood Cemetery in
> Washington Township, Brown County has been destroyed by a person building a
> new home. This cemetery is the burial place of Morris SINN, the progenitor of
> the SINN family in central Indiana. He was born in Bavaria, and died in 1870.
> Graves in this cemetery date from 1842 to 1918.
>
> Good News: A man has been charged with disturbing a cemetery without a
> permit, a class D felon, cemetery mischief, a class A misdemeanor, and moving
> a grave memorial without recording, a class C misdemeanor. Officers Jeff
> Atwood and Buck Stogsdill of the DNR investigated.
>
> Let us watch and hope.
>
> David W Foster
> Monroe County
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living?
>
>
Good morning,
It would seem this land owner just didn't give a rip enough to go find out
more about the cemetery. His excuse that he thought it was abandoned is
simply lame. Where did he think the bodies would go without the
gravestones? He's certainly not innocent in this...
I liked what you said about teaching your children what sacred is.
Yesterday, Rudy Guilani said he wanted the World Trade Center to be a
sacred, hallowed ground. I agree with him.
There are thousands of people who lost loved ones in the Sept. 11th attacks
who will have no grave to go visit. In a hundred years, the descendants of
those people will have nowhere to go to connect to their ancestors who lost
their lives there. If NY creates a sacred, hallowed, memorial place for
them all, those families will have a connection.
That's what makes what we're doing so important more than ever. Every grave
yard we save, every cemetery we care for will be there when someday
someone's descendant comes looking. We are the last line of defense.
We, the people. The government's not going to do it!
Sue Silver
California
----- Original Message -----
From: <NTFCANNON(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Good New & Bad News
> I guess I am insane about sacred things. I guess I am this way so that I
> teach my children what is sacred to prepare them as well adjusted happy
men
> and women. So they can make the world a better place. Call me old fashion.
> Call me insane if that were my Great Great Great Grandfathers grave I'd
want
> to hunt the 'evil doer' down like a dog. Although I do not want to see
anyone
> go to jail some ratifacation is justifiable.
>
> NTFCannon(a)Aol.Com (Tom Cannon)
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Please do not send queries through this list.
>
>
Thanks to Donna Tauber for forwarding to me a 12/06/2001 Anderson Herald
story about the Henry Co. Cemetery Commission as well as the photos from the
hard-copy version of the 12/24/2001 New York Times story.
Both are available from the INPCRP "In the News" web page at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/inthenews.html
Lois
The Bad News: Another cemetery as been destroyed. The Fleetwood Cemetery in
Washington Township, Brown County has been destroyed by a person building a
new home. This cemetery is the burial place of Morris SINN, the progenitor of
the SINN family in central Indiana. He was born in Bavaria, and died in 1870.
Graves in this cemetery date from 1842 to 1918.
Good News: A man has been charged with disturbing a cemetery without a
permit, a class D felon, cemetery mischief, a class A misdemeanor, and moving
a grave memorial without recording, a class C misdemeanor. Officers Jeff
Atwood and Buck Stogsdill of the DNR investigated.
Let us watch and hope.
David W Foster
Monroe County
Angela,
were you able to bring up the story UEB said was in the Times the 24th., It
wouldn'ty come up for me. Is that the right url ?
Jack E. Briles, Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
Dear MaryAlice:
County Coordinators and INPCRP county pages are covered in the "INPCRP
Coordinators' Page" at http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/pcrpcoordinators.html
Let me know if you have further questions.
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: "MaryAlice Parks" <maryalicepa(a)earthlink.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Restoration of Grayson-Long Cemetery in Clark Co., IN
nearly completion
> Briefly, what would be involved in maintaining a county web page?
>
> Happy Holidays
> MaryAlice Parks
Briefly, what would be involved in maintaining a county web page?
Happy Holidays
MaryAlice Parks
----- Original Message -----
From: CLUGH_LA <clugh_la(a)email.msn.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Restoration of Grayson-Long Cemetery in Clark Co., IN
nearly completion
> Lois,
> That is one very nice story. I love it that you have found ways to
involve
> many
> different types of groups in this one cemetery cleanup. I have the
> opportunity next month to talk at a district boy scouts meeting. I'm
> excited about that and hope I keep it together. <g> The more we involve,
> the better our chances are of keeping this all going forward.
>
> I'm ready to work on a web page for my county. Is anyone else ready for
> this?
> I would love some thoughts about what you think is important. I didn't
see
> many County webpages with INPCRP logos on them. Guess were all to busy
> working in the dirt.
> I has been wonderfully warm this month and a great time to go find the
> overgrown cemeteries.
>
> Wishing you all a wonderful and peaceful Christmas!
> And I hope you get new Cemeteries tools this year too. <g>
>
> Lou Ann Terry-Clugh (L.A.)
> Tippecanoe County Pioneer Cemeteries Group Coordinator
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.
>
Dear MaryAlice:
Thanks for the offer to come down and help. I'll post on the group any work
days we're able to schedule. If you can't join us, maybe others will post
here with work days scheduled at other sites so you can pitch in there,
maybe even somewhere closer to Cincinnati.
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: "MaryAlice Parks" <maryalicepa(a)earthlink.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Restoration of Grayson-Long Cemetery in Clark Co., IN
nearly completion
> Hi. I would be interested in joining your group in looking for stones. I
> live in Cincinnati so I couldn't necessarily come at the drop of a hat,
but
> I would certainly come if I can. I'm on the board of Shiloh in Dubois
> County, and several of our members are active in helping to restore local
> cemeteries.
>
> Glad to meet you.
>
> MaryAlice Parks
> 513-793-7739
I am really, really PLEASED to announce that the clean-up and restoration of
Grayson-Long Cemetery in Jeffersonville Township, Clark Co., IN is nearly
COMPLETION.
This site is nestled in a heavily wooded oasis, surrounded by residential
and commercial developed. The cemetery was savagely vandalized about 30
years ago by some miscreants who dug up at least two people and paraded
around down with their skulls and jewelry.
30 years passed and the graves were never filled it. In the meantime, the
neighborhood children carried on the tradition of their predecessors,
vandalizing the site to the point that every single stone was broken or
down, except one Civil War marker. There were huge dead trees down all over
the site. In a word, it was a mess!
For the past year or so, I have been communicating with several people who
have been working quietly in the background to get this site cleaned up.
Today, I'm pleased to announce that the work is nearly finished. The dead
trees have been moved off the cemetery (which turns out to be a full, square
acre); we still need to get rid of the dead trees, but they aren't on the
graves anymore.
Jim Grayson, the owner of Grayson Funeral Homes and the Charlestown Monument
Company, and his family donated their services to repair all the broken
stones and monuments.
Either inmate labor or community service labor was used to do the actual
cleaning (I'm still not sure which).
All of this was coordinated by Mr. Dale Popp, the Jeffersonville Township
Trustee.
In the next few weeks, a fence (chain-link?) will be built around the entire
one-acre cemetery. The surrounding woods are been converted into wooded
parkland. It really is a beautiful area.
If you haven't been to Grayson-Long Cemetery and can't find it following the
directions on http://www.rootsweb.com/~incccpc/graysoncem.html , just give
me a call. I'd love to take you there!
The above webpage features over 2 dozen photos that I took this afternoon, a
true virtual tour of the site. It will take a while for the pix to load,
but I think you'll enjoy them.
I'm sure there are a ton of buried stones here and I'd love to coordinate a
probing day (with the Trustee's permission, of course!). Let me know if
you'd be interested in looking for buried stones at Grayson-Long Cemetery.
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: <brookgen(a)juno.com>
To: <graveyardgroomer(a)skyenet.net>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 9:17 AM
Subject: Popular Ridge Friends Cem- Jackson Twp-
> Visited this cemetery in Nov. and found that the vinca minor ground cover
> had been taken off. Talked to Odell Callahan. Is this a part of a
> larger plan to restore the cemetery? by Mr. Callahan? by the cemetery
> commission.
>
> I believe the cemetery to be much, much, larger than Mr. Callahan
> believes. The church records list 29 burials in this cemetery only one
> of which has a marker visible today.
>
> I suspect there to be 5 rows west of the fence posts and that these
> extend northward to Mr. Callahan's drive at least \. perhaps beyond.
> This was done roughly with dowsing and also with observation in early
> spring. There are areas which have not been explored by me.
>
> What is the situation with this cemetery regard to restoration ? with
> regard to the cemetery commission? Will the myrtle be allowed to grow
> back?
>
> This cemetery was excepted in an 1840's deed by the heirs of Jonathan
> Wright Sr. and I am one of his descendants. Patricia Smith,
> Brookville. IN
>
>
Jack,
My cousin, Donna Tauber, was contacted by this reporter Thurs. evening. He
saw her nomination for an endagered cemetery on the Saving Graves website.
Is the St. Johns Lutheran Cemetery on the endangered page?
Donna also told me the reporter wanted to keep this quiet because he didn't
want a lot of publicity about it. I don't know exactly what he meant by this
statement. Maybe he didn't want to be scooped. Donna told him to call me and
Bud Bush, but I haven't heard from him. I would have referred him to Lois
anyway. This could be a HUGE story for not only Indiana cemeteries, but
cemeteries around the U.S. It is my opinion that the reporter talk to Walt
to if possible. He can have one heck of a story! (smile)
Angela Tielking
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 8:20 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] New York Times
> William Spurlock
> Saving Graves
>
> Bill,
>
> Lois talked to Peter Kilborn, Reporter for the New York Times and
> referred him to me on Thursday Dec. 6th. Mr. Kilborn's message to Lois
was,
> and I QUOTE "Dear MS Mauk. We're interested in Exploring the issue of
> abandoned cemeteries and might focus on one somewhere in the U.S. There
seem
> to be quite a number of them in Indiana. One Possibility might be Barren's
> Cemetery in Harrison County, Ind. I'd love to pick your brain on all of
this.
> You can call me in the Washington Bureau of The New York Times." Close
> QUOTE. Lois called him and they had a Discussion, and she referred him to
me
> about the story of St. Johns Lutheran, AKA/ "Barrens". He called and we
had a
> long Discussion about the cemetery being allowed to grow up and then being
> Burned to clear it off by a State Entity, as opposed to Normal Clearing
and
> Mowing. I also explained the State only had ORAL Permission to work on it
at
> all. It legally, under Indiana Law is the Responsibility of the Morgan
Twp.
> Trustee. He asked how far was the Cemetery from where I lived and I said
> about 20 miles. As to whether he will do the story or not, I don't know.
But
> he was very interested. NOW, my question is, How in the world did he find
out
> about the so called "Barrens" Cemetery in Harrison County Ind.??? He must
> have called you, and you gave him the information. I know we all had quite
a
> Discussion between Sept.28th and Sept. 31st. I have a Booklet put together
of
> all of the E-mails we all exchanged. But the story must have came from
you.
> If so, Let me know. How he could mention a specific cemetery that way is
> driving me crazy. I definitely hope he does pick up on it. The Story about
> Burning off Cemeteries really needs to be brought to the attention of more
> than the people on our List. The New York Times would cause the story to
be
> picked up by others. An individual can't Burn one like that, the Township
> Trustee would have them arrested for Destruction of property, and I don't
> think the State of Indiana should be allowed to Either. Let me Know, and
keep
> up the good work !
>
> Jack E. BrilesSr.,
> Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
> PO Box 444
> New Albany, In. 47151-0444
> (812) 282-6585
>
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.