Beginning March 2nd, 2020 the Mailing Lists functionality on RootsWeb will be discontinued. Users will no longer be able to send outgoing emails or accept incoming emails. Additionally, administration tools will no longer be available to list administrators and mailing lists will be put into an archival state.
Administrators may save the emails in their list prior to March 2nd. After that, mailing list archives will remain available and searchable on RootsWeb
I have pondered most of the day whether or not to respond to this message on
the list. But I feel I should. I believe Mr. Brundage has forgotten the
content of our chat last Friday. When I asked him if Madison Co. had a
full-time cemetery supervisor who located and maintained the pioneer
cemeteries he answered no. When I asked if their were any others in the
state besides Fayette Co., your answer to me was YES. I then asked you which
county/counties had a full-time cemetery supervisor. You replied you didn't
know, and that Fayette Co. was the only one who made a big deal about it. I
cannot find any other county in the state of Indiana which has a full-time
cemetery supervisor that agrees with the first answer you gave me, Mr.
Brundage. Until I get proof to the contrary, I consider the matter closed.
Sincerely,
Angela Tielking
----- Original Message -----
From: <PapawB(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 11:33 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] Re: INPCRP-D Digest V01 #396
> Response to A. Telking regarding Madison County
> Ms. Telking's comments regarding me should be answered in the media where
> noted. Her telephone call was for information as to whether Madison County
> had a paid full time cemetery caretaker. The answer was no and then she
asked
> if I knew of any county other than Fayette which had one. The answer was
no,
> I did not know but supposed there might be one or more. My answer was not
> that there was any but I did not know. John Brundage, Chairman, Madison
> County Cemetery Commission
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of
England
> and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
> "Show me the manner in which a nation or community
> cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
> exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
> respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
> to high ideals."
In a message dated 11/12/01 10:05:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
djd434(a)rnetinc.net writes:
> . It might slow me down, but
> it won't stop me.
>
> Debra,
You will have to find the deed that the Original Exception refers to.
Until you find a specific reference to a "graveyard" then you don't really
have much. An Exception like you describe, to me indicates this is an
Exception, or removal of property from a previous deed, rather than a
"Graveyard" . Such as Having a 1/4 Section (160 Acres) owned originally and
selling off a small portion. This could be the Exception that is referred
to.. YOU MUST FIND EXACTLY WHAT THE EXCEPTION APPLIES TO.
Go back and Dig, Dig, Dig.
Jack E. Briles, Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
To the list:
The Morgan County Cemetery Committee will be cleaning Mt. Olive Cemetery in
northern Morgan County Saturday, Nov 17, beginning at 8am. The Morgan
County Community Corrections inmates will be there early doing the hard work
of clearing out trees and shrubs. We will be shepherding that effort,
pointing out what goes and what stays. Then, as the excess foliage is
cleared out, Helen Wildermuth, a recent John Walters trainee, will be
working on stone repairs. If you've missed the cemetery repair workshops,
this is your chance to help
with this process. There are lots of stones to repair, so I'm sure she'll
be putting all of us to work.
If you have some time to spare, come join us! Mt. Olive Cemetery is at 8381
E. Hadley Road, near the intersection of Hadley Road and Mann Road, in
Madison Township. Take SR144 west from SR37, then turn right (north) on
Mann Road. Follow it north to Hadley Road and turn left (west). The
cemetery is behind a brick house which was at one time a church, about 1/4
mile from Mann Road on the left (south) side of the road.
Dale Drake
Morgan Co History & Genealogy Assn
Cemetery Committee
Jack,
This deed, dated 1849, does not specify the purpose of the exception, which
leads me to believe that I'm missing an earlier deed. I think that question
will be answered once I have the missing deed. The only transfer FROM the
original owner was too his heirs, but I think the original owner acquired
some additional property (next door to his land grant purchase) between 1830
and 1839. That additional property is actually where the excepted area is
located, and both properties are part of the current deed. Of course, I
didn't figure that out until after I got back home from my research trip on
Friday. This cemetery is located in Daviess county, and it only takes me
about 2 hours to get there. Finding enough time to make that round trip
plus the research time is the hard part for me. It might slow me down, but
it won't stop me.
Debra Dougherty
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] What's my next step?
> Debra,
> You say there is an Exception on the deed. Does the deed specify this
> Exception as a graveyard, or is it a total amount of Acreage with the
> Exception of a certain amount that had previously been SOLD to someone
else
> and there fore Excepted from the original deed. The Exception must say
> "Graveyard" and the size.
> Jack E. Briles, Sr.
> Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
> PO Box 444
> New Albany, In. 47151-0444
> (812) 282-6585
>
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> THIS IS A CEMETERY -----
> "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families
> are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is
> undisguised. This is a cemetery.
> "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence,
> historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched.
> "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved
> in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life -
> not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family
> memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living.
> "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of
> yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery
> exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always."
> --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA
>
>
>
In a message dated 11/12/01 10:23:10 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
djd434(a)rnetinc.net writes:
> The first deed I have which
> mentions the exception is dated 1849. This exception, described in specific
> size and location, is included on all future deeds up to and including the
> deed of the previous owners issued January 1992. (The previous owners were
> heirs of the owner responsible for the removal of structures on the site,
> including a fence surrounding a cemetery and most of the stones in the
> cemetery.) The previous owners sold the property to the current owners in
> May 1998, and the description of the excepted area does not appear on the
> current deed. The description of the current property is based on a survey
> dated February 1998. The acreage, which had remained constant previously,
> suddenly increased by 4.595 acres on the current deed. Shouldn't that have
> been a really big red flag? And why did the surveyor ignore an excepted
> area described so specifically on the previous (and all previous) deed(s)?
>
>
Debra,
You say there is an Exception on the deed. Does the deed specify this
Exception as a graveyard, or is it a total amount of Acreage with the
Exception of a certain amount that had previously been SOLD to someone else
and there fore Excepted from the original deed. The Exception must say
"Graveyard" and the size.
Jack E. Briles, Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
Response to A. Telking regarding Madison County
Ms. Telking's comments regarding me should be answered in the media where
noted. Her telephone call was for information as to whether Madison County
had a paid full time cemetery caretaker. The answer was no and then she asked
if I knew of any county other than Fayette which had one. The answer was no,
I did not know but supposed there might be one or more. My answer was not
that there was any but I did not know. John Brundage, Chairman, Madison
County Cemetery Commission
I'd like to first thank all who responded to my query, both directly and
indirectly. I do appreciate all conversation on the topic.
When I wrote my previous message, I believed I had copies of every deed
issued on this property from the original land grant up to the current
owner. Upon closer inspection, I now think I may be missing one deed issued
sometime between 1830 and 1839, not just any ol' deed, but perhaps the deed
describing the reason for the excepted area. The first deed I have which
mentions the exception is dated 1849. This exception, described in specific
size and location, is included on all future deeds up to and including the
deed of the previous owners issued January 1992. (The previous owners were
heirs of the owner responsible for the removal of structures on the site,
including a fence surrounding a cemetery and most of the stones in the
cemetery.) The previous owners sold the property to the current owners in
May 1998, and the description of the excepted area does not appear on the
current deed. The description of the current property is based on a survey
dated February 1998. The acreage, which had remained constant previously,
suddenly increased by 4.595 acres on the current deed. Shouldn't that have
been a really big red flag? And why did the surveyor ignore an excepted
area described so specifically on the previous (and all previous) deed(s)?
I found no evidence that the previous owners purchased or claimed (sole use
of) any additional property. Could they have claimed sole use with the
cemetery obviously represented by the tombstone still remaining and the pile
of tombstones still lying in the ditch at the edge of the property?
I have sketched the section (to the best of my ability) according to the
original land grant purchases, including landmarks (river, railroad, and
Wabash & Erie canal). It appears to me that the cemetery is located on the
excepted area, but I won't know that for sure without having the excepted
area laid out by a surveyor. The exception is for 10 (ten) acres and
described as if the original land owner (who died in 1839) were still
living, i.e., "to this point, and then around Alexander's 10 acres." Ten
acres is a large area, but I also know what was going on there during 1849.
I believe that 10 acres included not only the cemetery, but also a
"community", a sort-of shanty town of canal laborers living on the property
during the construction of the Wabash and Erie canal being built during that
time. In addition to the 44 known burials in this cemetery, there is also
believed to be perhaps as many as 100 canal workers buried in mass, trench
graves. These canal workers died from the cholera epidemic which came
through the region in 1848. Here-say to me, supposedly from an eyewitness
to the bulldozing event, "Bones were scattered everywhere." Most likely,
those were the bones of the canal workers.
This cemetery has been farmed over since the middle 1960's, right up to and
around the one remaining tombstone. My wants are just as specific as the
description of the excepted area.
I want the farming operations over the cemetery grounds to stop.
I want the excepted area staked off to determine if the cemetery was part of
the exception.
I want the tombstones removed from the ditch, and the cemetery rebuilt. (I
had previously considered relocating the stones to another site, but that
solution no longer interests me. I want the cemetery back.)
What I need is a plan of action. Who do I need to talk to in order to
accomplish my goals?
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
Debra Dougherty
2220 Legendary Drive
Martinsville, IN 46151
(765) 349-6309
DJD434(a)RNETINC.NET
In a message dated 11/11/01 11:43:57 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
andimac(a)oz.net writes:
> If the newest deed is incorrect, then the title company that did the title
> search can be held accountable. They are paid to do an accurate title
> search which should bring up all discrepancies in the deed. Perhaps someone
> should contact them and find out if they have it in their records. Many
> title companies like to know when their records are incorrect for that
> reason (being held accountable through title insurance). Title companies
> use different information than Auditor's use. They pay a lot for this
> different information.
>
>
Andi,
Tell this to the People that moved the Smith Cemetery in New Albany, Floyd
Co. Ind, they claimed they didn't know the cemetery was even on the property
when the investment co. spent $1,000,000 for all of the property for a Meijer
Department Store. I think Lois put the story on the News list. I said at the
time the Investment Co. should have got their money back. I don't know
though, the spokesman for the Investor wasn't to bright, He told the
Newspaper they moved the Remains of ABOUT 5 people
I went to the Recorders office, and in 45 minutes found 2 deeds only going
back as far as 1980, with both using the cemetery as a starting, and ending
point. I find cemetery deeds all of the time not recorded on the present
deeds. One dropped off in 1843. Everyone wants the cemeteries to go away.
Jack E. Briles, Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
If the newest deed is incorrect, then the title company that did the title
search can be held accountable. They are paid to do an accurate title
search which should bring up all discrepancies in the deed. Perhaps someone
should contact them and find out if they have it in their records. Many
title companies like to know when their records are incorrect for that
reason (being held accountable through title insurance). Title companies
use different information than Auditor's use. They pay a lot for this
different information.
The title company generally has a stamp or contact information somewhere on
the newest deed that is submitted. Check with the Auditor's office to find
out who it was if it is not clearly stated.
Andi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Debra Dougherty" <djd434(a)rnetinc.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 12:27 PM
Subject: [INPCRP] What's my next step?
> I've pulled and copied all the deeds on a property which surrounds a
pioneer cemetery. The deeds do describe an exception in terms that a
surveyor would understand, but I didn't find any document describing that
the exception was specifically for a cemetery. The current owners bought
this property in May 1998, and on their deed this exception mysteriously
disappeared. Also on the current deed only, the acreage just as
mysteriously "grew". Most of this cemetery was bulldozed in the 1960's.
Only one stone remains standing, but it is very obvious there was a cemetery
there.
>
> If the former owners didn't own this "excepted" acreage, how were they
able to sell it? I think the current owners have been duped into believing
that they also own the cemetery area. It appears they are paying taxes on
ground that I don't think they own.
>
> So, what's my next step? Do I go back to the trustee with this
information? Can the trustee request that the described excepted area be
surveyed? I'd like to know for sure that the cemetery is part of this
exception. Or is there someone else I need to talk to?
>
> Thank you for your help,
> Debra Dougherty
> 2220 Legendary Drive
> Martinsville, IN 46151
> (765) 349-6309
> DJD434(a)RNETINC.NET
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Please do not send queries through this list.
>
>
If you know the section, township and range of the property, you can look up
the federal patent online. Just do a search on Bureau of Land Management.
Go to the site and do a "Search for Land Patents."
You will all those who patented land in that particular section, but it
gives you a starting point.
Here in gold rush country, we even try to trace the property back through
those who claimed "possessory right" to ownership under the pre-emption of
claim act. We've found at least two deeds executed prior to the federal
land patent that excepted a burial plot.
It's fairly tedious when you get someone who owned lots of property, but
when you find the exception, that's your reward.
Sue Silver
CA
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] What's my next step?
> In a message dated 11/10/01 3:27:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> djd434(a)rnetinc.net writes:
>
>
> > I've pulled and copied all the deeds on a property which surrounds a
pioneer
> > cemetery. The deeds do describe an exception in terms that a surveyor
> > would understand, but I didn't find any document describing that the
> > exception was specifically for a cemetery. The current owners bought
this
> > property in May 1998, and on their deed this exception mysteriously
> > disappeared. Also on the current deed only, the acreage just as
> > mysteriously "grew". Most of this cemetery was bulldozed in the 1960's.
> > Only one stone remains standing, but it is very obvious there was a
> > cemetery there.
> >
> >
>
> How far back did you go. If there is an Exception It will say "Except
for
> (Size) to be used as a Graveyard." It is very highly unlikely it will say
> cemetery. It can also say for "A Family Burial Site" or A Family
Graveyard.
> Very seldom on an Exception here in Floyd County does it give a Surveyors
> description that pin points the site. It just Excepts the Area of the
> Graveyard. It will give either the Size, such as 75 X 75, or it may be
> something like a Quarter Acre.
> It will give the Surveyors size such as Rods, Chains, or Poles
if
> there is a separate deed instead of an Exception. Sometimes I find it
Quicker
> to Start at the Original Owner listed in the Government Land Sales and
work
> forward until I find a Deed, or an Exception. You can Locate the first
owner
> by finding out who bought that particular Quarter Section, 160 Acres,
which
> is the way Early Sales were made. Poorer land later was sold in 80 Acre
> Parcels, and later if not sold it was sold by the Government in 40 Acre
> parcels. Early Land sales in Floyd Co. are in a Book in the recorders
Office.
> Some early Sales are in a Land Book from Vincennes, Later Jeffersonville.
It
> is not uncommon to find them dropped off the deed a 150 years ago. Because
as
> Jon. or Sue, or someone said earlier, an Exception cannot legally be
> dissolved.
> It was a part of a Deed and is as Legal a Term as you will find
in
> the Present or past deeds The present owners have not been Duped, that
> happened a long time ago. Times were different then than they are now. The
> cemetery was there so no big deal about putting it on a deed. Also some
> wanted to make sure they got all the money they could. You can check with
the
> Trustee, but if they are paying Taxes on the Cemetery, they can have it
> removed from their Taxes if you can Find the right deed. Good Luck, I
can't
> help any more than this. Someone Else Give it a try.
>
> Jack E. Briles, Sr.
> Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
> PO Box 444
> New Albany, In. 47151-0444
> (812) 282-6585
>
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you
have."
> Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
>
>
In a message dated 11/10/01 8:43:10 PM US Eastern Standard Time, ueb(a)iei.net
writes:
> Also, in later years of the nineteenth century, a cemetery on any property
> was considered a hindrance to its sale, if the property had good water,
> fertile ground and maple trees it sold fairly quick, if there was a
> cemetery on the property, the stones confidently disappeared form the land
> and/or deed.
> I have personally found this to be true in a lot of land transactions.
>
> UEB
> Henry County, IN
> www.hcgs.net
>
>
Ulysses,
That is what I was referring to earlier. The land owner wanted all of the
money they
> could get, so they dropped the graveyard off the deed. Also in Floyd County
> in the early Platt book under the letter "B", for Burying Ground, I found
> quite a Few listed. Then in Floyd County's Deed Index Book from 1816 to
> 1868 I found Some churches that had cemeteries and deeds. Some of the
> churches ceased to exist by 1875. These are found in the Index Book under
> the letter "C" for churches
>
>
Jack E. Briles, Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
Jack and others,
In 1863, the State of Indiana passed an act of the General Assembly (see Gavin and Hand's Statutes, Vol. 1, page 584, provisions 19 and 21) Acts of The General Assembly. An act to enable Trustees to receive land and donations and to convey the same for the uses of Schools, Churches, Religious Societies, Masonic and Odd Fellow Lodges, Sons and Daughters of Temperance and for the construction of Cemeteries, Houses of Worship or other buildings therein.
So, I have found, starting about 1860, if you look in the Deed Index books for "Grantee" under the letter "T". you will start finding where the land owner deeded his family cemetery, defunct church cemeteries and such to either the township trustees or the board of Commissioners of said county. Also, in later years of the nineteenth century, a cemetery on any property was considered a hindrance to its sale, if the property had good water, fertile ground and maple trees it sold fairly quick, if there was a cemetery on the property, the stones confidently disappeared form the land and/or deed.
I have personally found this to be true in a lot of land transactions.
UEB
Henry County, IN
www.hcgs.net
In a message dated 11/10/01 3:27:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
djd434(a)rnetinc.net writes:
> I've pulled and copied all the deeds on a property which surrounds a pioneer
> cemetery. The deeds do describe an exception in terms that a surveyor
> would understand, but I didn't find any document describing that the
> exception was specifically for a cemetery. The current owners bought this
> property in May 1998, and on their deed this exception mysteriously
> disappeared. Also on the current deed only, the acreage just as
> mysteriously "grew". Most of this cemetery was bulldozed in the 1960's.
> Only one stone remains standing, but it is very obvious there was a
> cemetery there.
>
>
How far back did you go. If there is an Exception It will say "Except for
(Size) to be used as a Graveyard." It is very highly unlikely it will say
cemetery. It can also say for "A Family Burial Site" or A Family Graveyard.
Very seldom on an Exception here in Floyd County does it give a Surveyors
description that pin points the site. It just Excepts the Area of the
Graveyard. It will give either the Size, such as 75 X 75, or it may be
something like a Quarter Acre.
It will give the Surveyors size such as Rods, Chains, or Poles if
there is a separate deed instead of an Exception. Sometimes I find it Quicker
to Start at the Original Owner listed in the Government Land Sales and work
forward until I find a Deed, or an Exception. You can Locate the first owner
by finding out who bought that particular Quarter Section, 160 Acres, which
is the way Early Sales were made. Poorer land later was sold in 80 Acre
Parcels, and later if not sold it was sold by the Government in 40 Acre
parcels. Early Land sales in Floyd Co. are in a Book in the recorders Office.
Some early Sales are in a Land Book from Vincennes, Later Jeffersonville. It
is not uncommon to find them dropped off the deed a 150 years ago. Because as
Jon. or Sue, or someone said earlier, an Exception cannot legally be
dissolved.
It was a part of a Deed and is as Legal a Term as you will find in
the Present or past deeds The present owners have not been Duped, that
happened a long time ago. Times were different then than they are now. The
cemetery was there so no big deal about putting it on a deed. Also some
wanted to make sure they got all the money they could. You can check with the
Trustee, but if they are paying Taxes on the Cemetery, they can have it
removed from their Taxes if you can Find the right deed. Good Luck, I can't
help any more than this. Someone Else Give it a try.
Jack E. Briles, Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
I've pulled and copied all the deeds on a property which surrounds a pioneer cemetery. The deeds do describe an exception in terms that a surveyor would understand, but I didn't find any document describing that the exception was specifically for a cemetery. The current owners bought this property in May 1998, and on their deed this exception mysteriously disappeared. Also on the current deed only, the acreage just as mysteriously "grew". Most of this cemetery was bulldozed in the 1960's. Only one stone remains standing, but it is very obvious there was a cemetery there.
If the former owners didn't own this "excepted" acreage, how were they able to sell it? I think the current owners have been duped into believing that they also own the cemetery area. It appears they are paying taxes on ground that I don't think they own.
So, what's my next step? Do I go back to the trustee with this information? Can the trustee request that the described excepted area be surveyed? I'd like to know for sure that the cemetery is part of this exception. Or is there someone else I need to talk to?
Thank you for your help,
Debra Dougherty
2220 Legendary Drive
Martinsville, IN 46151
(765) 349-6309
DJD434(a)RNETINC.NET
Sharon:
I have not exactly kept up with this scenario except the tax issue, but in
answer your question, Can anything be done? I think the county had an
obligation under the law to protect the future of this cemetery if they knew
it was there.
Jon
P.S. Most county owned excess property tax sales are held in Feb./March vs.
Sept./Oct. delinquency sales.
>From: mills <mills(a)reliable-net.net>
>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] going after a cemetery for taxes
>Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 06:12:50 -0500
>
>
>Jon,
>
>Thanks for this easy and understandable information.
>
>It appears as if the sale of this land was the latter type. I can see that
>the initial sale was 3 Mar 1999 on the day of the public "auction". The
>land must have been available for sale two years before that, as there was
>a rumor that a woman from another county had bought the church and was
>going to turn it into a home. Then we "heard" that the first sale fell
>through, the woman was convinced to abandon her idea by someone, and the
>second sale occurred. The property was taxed for 1996 and prior years.
>
>I'm sure there were public notices in the papers. Possession of the
>property did occur in June 1999. If this is the case, does that preclude
>action the county might have taken to except out the cemetery itself? Is
>there any action that can still be taken regarding the cemetery?
>
>There is one more little odd factor that may involve a third party. The
>back corner that may have been formerly covered with mature trees was never
>included in the deed for the church/cemetery. Nor was it included in the
>parcels deeded for the additions. At this point I don't know who owns that
>back fraction of an acre, nor do I know specifically that trees were cut
>from it.
>
>More deed research indicated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Sharon Mills
>
>
>At 10:33 PM 11/8/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >Jack and Sharon:
> >
> >In answer to your question about redemption periods, tax deeds, etc.....
> >
> >Fact is, that if the property was sold at a yearly tax sale for
>delinquent
> >taxes and the new buyer was issued a tax certificate at the time of the
> >sale, that buyer would not gain possession or a valid deed to the
>property
> >for 1 year from the date of the certificate and only after which time all
> >required notices are posted of record. It used to be 2 years from date.
> >Changed about 7 years ago. If the record owner redeems the taxes,
>penalties
> >and costs within the 1 year period, the record owner still owns the
>property
> >and the buyer receives his money back. If he does not, the buyer at the
>sale
> >will receive a tax deed from the County Commissioners signed by the
>Auditor.
> >Could take up to six additional months. Then and only then can the buyer
> >take possession of the property. There is a tremendous amount of case law
>in
> >Indiana supporting this fact. I actually have been a part of it on
>certain
> >occasions.
> >
> >Now, here's something else. If the property goes on the tax sale for 2
> >consecutive years and does not sell for lack of a bid. The county has the
> >option to file a lien on the property with the clerk's office against the
> >record owner and the property can then be advertised and sold at a
>separate
> >sale of County owned excess property. If you buy this property in this
> >manner, possession and a deed is issued generally by the court and
>happens
> >pretty quickly and is final. Usually a matter of a few weeks if handled
>by a
> >good county attorney or as soon as the money changes hands.
> >
> >It makes a difference as to how the property was sold and transferred
> >as to how quick you could legally get on the property.
> >
> >Questions?
> >
> >Jon
> >
> >
> >>From: Jb502000(a)aol.com
> >>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> >>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> >>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] going after a cemetery for taxes
> >>Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:06:14 EST
> >>
> >>In a message dated 11/8/01 7:42:34 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> >>mills(a)reliable-net.net writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> > Actually, the taxes on this 2.64 areas were over $3,000. That was
>what
> >>the
> >> > new owner paid to buy the property. They may have been figuring in
> >>those
> >> > big trees he later sold and a handful of years of back taxes.
> >> >
> >>
> >>Sharon,
> >>If the Taxes were that high they had to have included several years. For
> >>the
> >>taxes to run that high the 2.64 acres with a cemetery taking up a goodly
> >>amount of the ground, the property would have to be in a very high
>priced
> >>area for one year to run that high. The taxes had to be delinquent for a
> >>Tax
> >>sale. The previous owner under Indiana Law has a grace period to reclaim
> >>the
> >>property, by paying up the purchase amount with interest.
> >> Technically I don't think the Trees can be stripped until that
>time
> >>has expired. If so and somehow some group, or person could redeem the
>land,
> >>the sale price of the trees would apply to the payment. If the tree sale
> >>brought $3,000 dollars the only thing owed would be the Interest, and
>I'm
> >>not
> >>sure about that because the property, minus the trees is not now worth
>what
> >>it was at the time of the Tax sale. Also you can't buy property at a
>tax
> >>sale and build a $150,000 house on it and expect the person redeeming
>the
> >>property to come up with that amount, plus the sale amount. You may not
> >>profit from a tax sale until the redemption time has expired. Sharon,
>you
> >>mention a for profit group, do you mean someone who sells cemetery lots
>to
> >>make a profit for themselves, or for money to apply to a long term
> >>maintenance fund. Anyone have any better information?
> >>Jack E. Briles, Sr.
> >>Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
> >>PO Box 444
> >>New Albany, In. 47151-0444
> >>(812) 282-6585
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> >>This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
> >>Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
> >>
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> >==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> >This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
> >Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>THIS IS A CEMETERY -----
> "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families
>are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is
>undisguised. This is a cemetery.
> "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence,
>historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched.
> "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved
>in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life -
>not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family
>memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living.
> "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of
>yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery
>exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always."
> --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Chris,
Go find a aerial photo about 1940 or 1972 (surveyor's office) of the farm
with the cemetery and blow it up by digital copying and see if you can see
the fence line or trees that were in the unfarmed area. Also the local ASCS
(Ag) office can order color slides from these photos for 1972 that can be
projected (blown up) to a pretty good size which allows you to see a lot
that was there. Also check a topographic map. Also, sometimes they are
designated in the Soil and Conservation Agency's map of different soil
types. ASCS office records will also show that the area was not previously
farmed and may show its use.
Did Nicholas Jones have a govt. stone or any other veterans buried there? If
so. Might be a record in the NARA or Ft Wayne showing where (what cemetery)
that stone was placed. Also, are you aware of WPA maps for your county and
the veterans card file to go with them?
Good Luck,
Jon
>From: "Christine West" <cherokee(a)shelbynet.net>
>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: [INPCRP] ...so long as time may last - Thank you.
>Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:18:00 -0600
>
>Jack, that sounds like exactly what I want to hear happen to all of these
>I'm finding that were removed from deeds. Sure hopes this one turns out as
>nice as the one you saved.
>
>Jon, The original cemetery ran to the North line, which is the road. Today
>it is as far from the road as the width of a combine, since it is in corn
>with one row on the north side of it. Yes, the ingress and egress would be
>all the way up to the road. I asked my brother and he said 3 years is all
>they pay in back taxes. The fence she spoke off as keeping the cattle in
>was at least 10 years ago. It has been a corn field since then. The
>trustee wants to avoid a confrontation, not merely to save face, but also
>the cost would be a factor she must consider. She has been trustee for
>quite awhile and is one of the top 3 on my "Good Trustee" list. She and 2
>other trustees here asked what more information I had for them and wanted
>to help find more and do more for their townships. 5 others I called
>merely told me the ones they maintain and ended the conversation. I
>haven't called 2 as they are long distance from my office and 2 haven't
>returned my messages (at least 2 times!
>) yet. So I am very happy this happens to be in her twp.
>
>I don't want a fight yet, I want to get all of my numbers and figures in a
>row and I hope in January to be able to go to the commissioners and give
>them, not only a book of information on each site that will be marked in
>the auditor's office, but also a list of important questions that need
>answers. (I'll email them out to the group for feedback before I finalize
>them). My friend at the paper will come in handy then too.
>
>As for the County Surveyor's involvement, we have a WONDERFUL County
>Surveyor and full-time staff here (I'm the administrative assistant/office
>manager). However, I know for a fact that they are quite back-logged as it
>is, but that they will do what the commissioners ask them to do as time
>allows. I have found out from previous experience that the commissioners
>are the ones to ask for such a thing, as they may say the county surveyor
>is too busy and perhaps would be willing to contract out the job. It would
>not be a decision that the surveyor could make on his own, as conflict of
>interest could be charged by others who want his job and want to look as if
>he could save the money. In some counties, the county surveyor saves the
>taxpayers money (not really) by not staffing an office and does work from a
>private firm on contract with the county. Ours is not like that, but
>perhaps if new laws were to be more specific about who does the work and
>how, things might change and i!
>t could become a duty of the surveyor.
>
>Kyle, I checked with the county assessor and he typed in the parcel number
>I gave him for the property. It came up as a normal field of 120 acres
>with no exemptions ever on it. He said that means that their office was
>not aware of a cemetery being located on that property, so there were no
>deductions from the acreage to subtract it from her field. He did say that
>they go by what they SEE, so sometimes it might not be on the parcel
>mapped, but they take it off of the assessment when they look at the
>property.
>
>I have a couple more issues to discuss, but I'll start another letter so as
>to keep them straight.
>
>Thanks for your comments, they are greatly appreciated.
>
>Cris West
>Columbus, IN
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>THIS IS A CEMETERY -----
> "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families
>are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is
>undisguised. This is a cemetery.
> "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence,
>historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched.
> "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved
>in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life -
>not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family
>memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living.
> "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of
>yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery
>exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always."
> --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Jack, that sounds like exactly what I want to hear happen to all of these I'm finding that were removed from deeds. Sure hopes this one turns out as nice as the one you saved.
Jon, The original cemetery ran to the North line, which is the road. Today it is as far from the road as the width of a combine, since it is in corn with one row on the north side of it. Yes, the ingress and egress would be all the way up to the road. I asked my brother and he said 3 years is all they pay in back taxes. The fence she spoke off as keeping the cattle in was at least 10 years ago. It has been a corn field since then. The trustee wants to avoid a confrontation, not merely to save face, but also the cost would be a factor she must consider. She has been trustee for quite awhile and is one of the top 3 on my "Good Trustee" list. She and 2 other trustees here asked what more information I had for them and wanted to help find more and do more for their townships. 5 others I called merely told me the ones they maintain and ended the conversation. I haven't called 2 as they are long distance from my office and 2 haven't returned my messages (at least 2 times!
) yet. So I am very happy this happens to be in her twp.
I don't want a fight yet, I want to get all of my numbers and figures in a row and I hope in January to be able to go to the commissioners and give them, not only a book of information on each site that will be marked in the auditor's office, but also a list of important questions that need answers. (I'll email them out to the group for feedback before I finalize them). My friend at the paper will come in handy then too.
As for the County Surveyor's involvement, we have a WONDERFUL County Surveyor and full-time staff here (I'm the administrative assistant/office manager). However, I know for a fact that they are quite back-logged as it is, but that they will do what the commissioners ask them to do as time allows. I have found out from previous experience that the commissioners are the ones to ask for such a thing, as they may say the county surveyor is too busy and perhaps would be willing to contract out the job. It would not be a decision that the surveyor could make on his own, as conflict of interest could be charged by others who want his job and want to look as if he could save the money. In some counties, the county surveyor saves the taxpayers money (not really) by not staffing an office and does work from a private firm on contract with the county. Ours is not like that, but perhaps if new laws were to be more specific about who does the work and how, things might change and i!
t could become a duty of the surveyor.
Kyle, I checked with the county assessor and he typed in the parcel number I gave him for the property. It came up as a normal field of 120 acres with no exemptions ever on it. He said that means that their office was not aware of a cemetery being located on that property, so there were no deductions from the acreage to subtract it from her field. He did say that they go by what they SEE, so sometimes it might not be on the parcel mapped, but they take it off of the assessment when they look at the property.
I have a couple more issues to discuss, but I'll start another letter so as to keep them straight.
Thanks for your comments, they are greatly appreciated.
Cris West
Columbus, IN
In a message dated 11/9/01 10:48:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
tielking(a)knightstown.net writes:
> So I think that Walt and his crew are the ONLY ones that do this in the
> state regardless what this John Brundage said.
>
> Angela,
> If another county had employees like this, after all of the publicity
> about cemeteries, and news stories about John, don't you think they would
> have been saying "Hold on just a minute, we have them in our county to."
> There are no MORE!!!
Jack E. Briles, Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
Hello everyone,
I called the Madison Co. cemetery commission board president, John Brundage, this morning regarding whether they had a full time cemetery supervisor like Walt in Fayette Co. The answer was no. They only have volunteers who can work from time to time in the cemeteries. John Brundage said that there are other counties in the state that do have employees like that. I asked which counties and he said he didn't know! So I think that Walt and his crew are the ONLY ones that do this in the state regardless what this John Brundage said.
Angela Tielking