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In a message dated 10/29/01 10:45:32 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mills(a)reliable-net.net writes:
> Jack,
>
> I seem to remember Daisy Lane as being near Old Ford Rd. But it's not on
> my only map of New Albany, which is part of the 1876 state atlas. I do
> see a large cemetery on that map, which must be the Fairview. All street
> names aren't on the map, but I see the cemetery bordered on the East by 8th
> St, on the South the by street due north of Shelby, and has a railroad
> running through the northern boundary. Any of those landmarks may have
> changed in 125 years, of course.
>
Sharon, I have lived in New Albany 60 years, and old Ford runs between
Charlestown Rd. and makes a curve around and Ends at Slate Run rd. Daisy
Lane runs between Grantline rd. North to State St. where it Ends. They
haven't changed.
Fairview cemetery Is Now Bounded by The old Monon R.R. Tracks on
the North, Culbertson Ave on the South, 8th St. on the East, and East 4th on
the West. The cemetery has greatly expanded since 1875.
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
Po Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
Fax (812) 282-6585
Jack:
I don't mean to be hard headed, but I just don't read the statute that way.
Not that I think it's right, but I still don't see where you have to ask
anybody anything if you are not erecting, altering or repairing a STRUCTURE.
That is what the law says. At least that is the way I read it. In my
opinion, if I woke up one morning and decided that the little knoll in front
of the cemetery fence would look better over there instead of over here then
I legally could hitch up the team and move it, if I so desired. I'm not
erecting, repairing or altering a STRUCTURE. Unless of course the DNR
defines my dirt as a STRUCTURE. That basically is my question and I do
believe a lot of people assume that it means any digging or disturbing the
earth by reading more into the mumbo-jumbo than what is really there. I
didn't write it, but I do believe I can read it and it clearly says
STRUCTURE. What does that mean? Does that mean mound of dirt? Does that mean
burying a water or electric line? Does that mean burying my dead horse? What
if I just needed a few thousand yards of fill dirt to sell to the State
Highway and thought that would be a good place out the way to get it? I
mean, really, I just don't get it. We think it means one thing, but it
really means another. Who's frustrated now, Jack? Anybody see it
differently?
Have a good one,
Jon
>From: Jb502000(a)aol.com
>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana Cemetery Law or not
>Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:46:20 EST
>
>In a message dated 10/28/01 10:34:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>sianoil(a)hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> > Ernie, Jack or whoever on the list,
> > O.K., I've read the statute I.C. 14-21-1-26.5 of which I was well
>familiar
> > with already. Now, what part of that statute says that I cannot dig my
> > pond,
> > ditch, mound, tree removal, water well, field tile, etc. etc. next to
>the
> > fence? Shoot, the mere setting of a fence or sign post might constitute
> > digging or disturbance of the ground. And what if my pond is already
>there
> > and I just want to make it bigger or deeper?
>
> Jon,
>Jon,
>The term disturbing the Ground, would, or should be taken Literally. You
>can
>enlarge your Pond or do whatever you want, if you Just file an
>Environmental
>Impact Statement with the Proper Agency under the Law as it is written, and
>receive approval. The Law is not intended to keep you from using your Land,
>it is to protect the cemetery from those that, unlike you, don't give a
>Darn
>about a Cemetery I would imagine that whatever you do would be approved.
>It's
>the ones that go in with the Dozers and the Sheepsfoot and shake the stones
>apart that the law is designed for. Also it is to keep track of what is
>happening near a Historical cemetery.
> There is one in Clarksville that was about 90 percent destroyed
>for
>a small strip Mall before any Laws like we have now were passed. I stopped
>this afternoon, sat down on a Base and looked at 2 Pay Telephones in what
>was
>at one time a Large cemetery. ONCE AGAIN the GROUND WAS MORTE MORE THAN THE
>BEAUTIFUL QUIET CEMETERY. All the Stones are down, (Big Obelisks) and I
>can't
>lift them to put back the few left to give it the semblance of a cemetery.
>This is why the Laws we have are on the books. Even now they could have
>built
>beside it, With an Environmental Report, but NOT IN IT. When you think
>you've
>seen it all DRIVE AROUND AND LOOK. I know this probably doesn't answer
>your
>Questions Jon, But I get to vent my frustration.!
>
>Jack E. Briles Sr.
>Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
>Po Box 444
>New Albany, In. 47151-0444
>(812) 282-6585
>Fax (812) 282-6585
>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>"Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you
>have."
> Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Sharon:
I see black and white. No beating around the bush. I believe the answers to
your questions are no and no. But, who am I to say. That would be too
simple.
Jon
>From: mills <mills(a)reliable-net.net>
>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: [INPCRP] building near a cemetery and taxes (un)paid thereon
>Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:38:18 -0500
>
>I understand that the law we are discussing about disturbing the ground
>within 100 feet of a cemetery came into effect July 1, 2000. Prior to that
>time, was there any prohibition that prevented a person from building
>within, say, 20 feet of a cemetery?
>
>I'm interested in knowing if a county could legally sell a cemetery on
>which no taxes had been paid since the former owners had bequeathed the
>land to a cemetery association. The cemetery association had become
>inactive, in that no meetings have been held in many years; however funds
>have been paid continually from the cemetery association account for
>mowing. Can a county government sell for non-payment of taxes, non-taxed
>land?
>
>Sharon Mills
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>THIS IS A CEMETERY -----
> "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families
>are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is
>undisguised. This is a cemetery.
> "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence,
>historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched.
> "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved
>in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life -
>not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family
>memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living.
> "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of
>yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery
>exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always."
> --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Jack,
I seem to remember Daisy Lane as being near Old Ford Rd. But it's not on
my only map of New Albany, which is part of the 1876 state atlas. I do
see a large cemetery on that map, which must be the Fairview. All street
names aren't on the map, but I see the cemetery bordered on the East by 8th
St, on the south the by street due north of Shelby, and has a railroad
running through the northern boundary. Any of those landmarks may have
changed in 125 years, of course.
The Floyd Co map in this atlas also shows crosses for cemeteries. I
imagine you have checked this map before, among others.
I have all the deeds for the cemetery in question, have some maps to show
S, T, and R, but haven't gone to the assessor yet. One problem I have to
resolve is related to vague wording on a deed; another is that this matter
appears to be unpopular with the county officials. Some of them have erred
and don't want to take responsibility for their actions.
I have all relevant documents in existence for this cemetery, including
records of the association. I can proceed when I think I have all relevant
information. My gr gr aunt and her husband donated the second portion of
land.
Sharon Mills
At 09:45 PM 10/29/01 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 10/29/01 8:28:02 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>mills(a)reliable-net.net writes:
>
>
>> Where is the cemetery you mention? And why were the stones removed?
>>
>> Sharon Mills
>>
>>
>> First, the cemetery you mentioned is Graceland Memorial on Charlestown rd
>> at old Ford rd. The other is Fairview cemetery dating back to 1840. it is
>> on Culbertson Avenue at East 6th St. The one I am Talking about in New
>> Albany is Located (Whats Left of it) on the North West corner of Stover
>> Drive and Daisy Lane
>
> I never knew of a Not for profit cemetery paying taxes. Any money on one of
>those is supposed to be put in a permanent maintenance fund.
>In fact I located the Taylor Cemetery in Floyd Co The Property owner
>originally bought the 2.5 acres for a future home in 1970. In 1972 he went
>out to clear out the woods for his house. He found a cemetery. Being a good
>person, he moved his house back behind it and has lived there since. He was
>paying taxes on the 1 acre cemetery. I looked up the deed, took it to the
>Assessor, and he received a 3 year credit and is not taxed for the 1 acre
>cemetery anymore. but even with the 3 year allowance he still paid
>unnecessary taxes for 27 years. I recommend you gather all of the legal
>papers on the cemetery and start at the assessor's office. Make sure about
>whether taxes have, or have not been paid. You have to start there anyhow if
>you want to look up a deed. They will give you a number for the Site, then
go
>to the recorders office and look up the deeds. Have copies made. Also, get
>the Quarter of the Section the cemetery is in, and get a copy of that. It
>should show the cemetery and any names connected to it, if there are any.
>HARD WORK WILL GET RESULTS, Hope this helps a little. Someone on the List
may
>be able to improve on this
>
>Jack E. Briles Sr.
>Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
>Po Box 444
>New Albany, In. 47151-0444
>(812) 282-6585
>Fax (812) 282-6585
>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>Please do not send queries through this list.
>
>
>
In a message dated 10/29/01 8:28:02 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mills(a)reliable-net.net writes:
> Where is the cemetery you mention? And why were the stones removed?
>
> Sharon Mills
>
>
> First, the cemetery you mentioned is Graceland Memorial on Charlestown rd
> at old Ford rd. The other is Fairview cemetery dating back to 1840. it is
> on Culbertson Avenue at East 6th St. The one I am Talking about in New
> Albany is Located (Whats Left of it) on the North West corner of Stover
> Drive and Daisy Lane
I never knew of a Not for profit cemetery paying taxes. Any money on one of
those is supposed to be put in a permanent maintenance fund.
In fact I located the Taylor Cemetery in Floyd Co The Property owner
originally bought the 2.5 acres for a future home in 1970. In 1972 he went
out to clear out the woods for his house. He found a cemetery. Being a good
person, he moved his house back behind it and has lived there since. He was
paying taxes on the 1 acre cemetery. I looked up the deed, took it to the
Assessor, and he received a 3 year credit and is not taxed for the 1 acre
cemetery anymore. but even with the 3 year allowance he still paid
unnecessary taxes for 27 years. I recommend you gather all of the legal
papers on the cemetery and start at the assessor's office. Make sure about
whether taxes have, or have not been paid. You have to start there anyhow if
you want to look up a deed. They will give you a number for the Site, then go
to the recorders office and look up the deeds. Have copies made. Also, get
the Quarter of the Section the cemetery is in, and get a copy of that. It
should show the cemetery and any names connected to it, if there are any.
HARD WORK WILL GET RESULTS, Hope this helps a little. Someone on the List may
be able to improve on this
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
Po Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
Fax (812) 282-6585
In a message dated 10/26/01 11:57:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
loismauk(a)home.com writes:
> If this developer did, in fact, not "disturb the soil" and instead "built
> up" the soil as he claims, does the prohibition against disturbing the soil
> within 100 feet of the cemetery now extend to the NEW SOIL he put there? If
> so, wouldn't the leveling he did of the new soil dumped next to the fence
> constitute "disturbing the soil"?????
>
> Lois
>
>
>
> Lois,
> I think you are Learning how the Conniving people in this world act when
> money is involved, and the ingenious Ideas they come up with. Taking Heavy
> Equipment, or any kind, for whatever purpose within the 100 ft. Buffer Zone
> Without Prior approval is an outright Violation of the Law, no matter how
> they twist the words.
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
Po Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
Fax (812) 282-6585
In a message dated 10/28/01 10:34:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
sianoil(a)hotmail.com writes:
> Ernie, Jack or whoever on the list,
> O.K., I've read the statute I.C. 14-21-1-26.5 of which I was well familiar
> with already. Now, what part of that statute says that I cannot dig my
> pond,
> ditch, mound, tree removal, water well, field tile, etc. etc. next to the
> fence? Shoot, the mere setting of a fence or sign post might constitute
> digging or disturbance of the ground. And what if my pond is already there
> and I just want to make it bigger or deeper?
Jon,
Jon,
The term disturbing the Ground, would, or should be taken Literally. You can
enlarge your Pond or do whatever you want, if you Just file an Environmental
Impact Statement with the Proper Agency under the Law as it is written, and
receive approval. The Law is not intended to keep you from using your Land,
it is to protect the cemetery from those that, unlike you, don't give a Darn
about a Cemetery I would imagine that whatever you do would be approved. It's
the ones that go in with the Dozers and the Sheepsfoot and shake the stones
apart that the law is designed for. Also it is to keep track of what is
happening near a Historical cemetery.
There is one in Clarksville that was about 90 percent destroyed for
a small strip Mall before any Laws like we have now were passed. I stopped
this afternoon, sat down on a Base and looked at 2 Pay Telephones in what was
at one time a Large cemetery. ONCE AGAIN the GROUND WAS MORTE MORE THAN THE
BEAUTIFUL QUIET CEMETERY. All the Stones are down, (Big Obelisks) and I can't
lift them to put back the few left to give it the semblance of a cemetery.
This is why the Laws we have are on the books. Even now they could have built
beside it, With an Environmental Report, but NOT IN IT. When you think you've
seen it all DRIVE AROUND AND LOOK. I know this probably doesn't answer your
Questions Jon, But I get to vent my frustration.!
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
Po Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
Fax (812) 282-6585
In a message dated 10/29/01 6:38:49 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mills(a)reliable-net.net writes:
> Can a county government sell for non-payment of taxes, non-taxed
> land?
>
> Sharon Mills
>
>
>
Sharon, The Answer to your first Question is, NO. as to Your second
Question, If there is an Association Fund, the Trustee is not obligated to
take care of the cemetery. But I believe if the Fund, and the cemetery was
turned over to the Township Trustee, he should accept and permanently take
care of the cemetery. Unless someone wants to maintain it on their own.
Someone else may know more than I do on this. Feel Free to straighten me out.
There can be no non payment of Taxes on Property which was not
Taxed, You can't be charged Taxes for something which was Tax Exempt. No
Taxes are paid on a cemetery, unless maybe it is still Active. (Well I
shouldn't say you can't). There is a cemetery in New Albany, Floyd Co. which
is listed as a cemetery on the Plot Plan. The Stones were moved, but it is
still listed as a cemetery. There are no Taxes Paid on the 52 X 32 foot Lot.
The Residents next door ran a Driveway thru the property and built a Garage
on 18 feet of the property. The Assessor said they can't do anything about
this.
The People adjacent to the Cemetery use the Site, and Pay no Taxes. AND
NO ONE CARES. If it is a cemetery, the DNR is responsible I guess. No one
Else is. Until recently, unless your conscience bothered you, you could do
what ever you wanted to do with a Pioneer Cemetery (or Any cemetery in
existence prior to February 1939 Without Funds) The Laws have improved, but
enforcement is Lagging. I have the Subdivision Plat for the cemetery in New
Albany, and it clearly states "Cemetery" But Joe 6 Pack next door doesn't
care. He uses it Tax Free. And until March of this year, I was the only
person in the County who knew it. I wasted my time looking up the Plat, I
honestly thought I could do something. So much for that.
Jack E. Briles Sr.
I understand that the law we are discussing about disturbing the ground
within 100 feet of a cemetery came into effect July 1, 2000. Prior to that
time, was there any prohibition that prevented a person from building
within, say, 20 feet of a cemetery?
I'm interested in knowing if a county could legally sell a cemetery on
which no taxes had been paid since the former owners had bequeathed the
land to a cemetery association. The cemetery association had become
inactive, in that no meetings have been held in many years; however funds
have been paid continually from the cemetery association account for
mowing. Can a county government sell for non-payment of taxes, non-taxed
land?
Sharon Mills
Susan:
Just remember this. That, if it is the trustee's responsibility to maintain
a fence, he does have the power to request it from his Cemetery Budget. Most
trustees, at least in this area have budgets approved by the State Board of
Accounts for the amount that they request. Very rarely, are they turned down
or questioned for that matter. If they tell you there is a shortage of funds
it means they really don't care and don't want to do it. There is "fat" in
those budgets and they also have the authority to use township funds to
supplement their cemetery budget. So, if not this year, next you should have
a fence, if indeed, this cemetery falls under his jurisdiction.
I do not want to disagree with Lois, but I have never received anything out
of a trustee by asking. I know a lot of people on this list think a good
relationship with them will get you the sky, but with everyone in this
county we had to get their attention first.
Good luck,
Jon
>From: Susan Barrett <sbarrett(a)indy.net>
>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: [INPCRP] Morgan Cemetery
>Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:31:08 -0500
>
>Thank you Lois for your very wise letter. I will follow your advice very
>carefully. I do not want to rile anyone such as the trustee but am truly
>interested in working for the betterment of all including the property
>owners who have been kindness itself. I understand the trustee's position
>and I know that finances for these kinds of projects are very limited. My
>husband and I do not have the funds to put up a fence around the cemetery
>but would be willing to build one if supplies can be gotten. We are retired
>so have more time than others. I do appreciate you writing so much and can
>tell that this is a project of love that you have embarked on. I do hope to
>meet you someday soon as I am very interested in Morgan Co. due to the fact
>that my GGGgrandfather, William Morgan, was one of the early settlers. He
>lived there for 50 years, and left a legacy for us. I feel it is up to us
>to preserve that history.Thank you for responding. Susan
>Susan Morgan Barrett
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of
>England
>and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
> "Show me the manner in which a nation or community
> cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
> exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
> respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
> to high ideals."
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Thank you Lois for your very wise letter. I will follow your advice very
carefully. I do not want to rile anyone such as the trustee but am truly
interested in working for the betterment of all including the property
owners who have been kindness itself. I understand the trustee's position
and I know that finances for these kinds of projects are very limited. My
husband and I do not have the funds to put up a fence around the cemetery
but would be willing to build one if supplies can be gotten. We are retired
so have more time than others. I do appreciate you writing so much and can
tell that this is a project of love that you have embarked on. I do hope to
meet you someday soon as I am very interested in Morgan Co. due to the fact
that my GGGgrandfather, William Morgan, was one of the early settlers. He
lived there for 50 years, and left a legacy for us. I feel it is up to us
to preserve that history.Thank you for responding. Susan
Susan Morgan Barrett
Ernie, Jack or whoever on the list,
O.K., I've read the statute I.C. 14-21-1-26.5 of which I was well familiar
with already. Now, what part of that statute says that I cannot dig my pond,
ditch, mound, tree removal, water well, field tile, etc. etc. next to the
fence? Shoot, the mere setting of a fence or sign post might constitute
digging or disturbance of the ground. And what if my pond is already there
and I just want to make it bigger or deeper?What is the state's definition
of a structure in this case? What if it's not new and who decides this? To
me, there is way too much gray area for a person to walk thru. This is the
case with about every DNR statute I have seen, maybe every statute written
and this is what creates these problems. Of course, this is also what keeps
attorneys in business, but at whose expense. Is it just me, or does this law
not pertain to what people assume that it pertains to. I've read it and read
it, over and over, and I just don't see what keeps a person from disturbing
the soil within 100 feet of a cemetery unless they are building a
"STRUCTURE".
Somebody explain it to me, please.
Jon
P.S. Also, take time to read I.C. 14-21-3-1 (a) about recording. If that is
not redundant, I don't know what is.
>From: Ernie & Connie <elasley(a)sigecom.net>
>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana Cemetery Law or not
>Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:49:39 -0500
>
>Jon,
>
>Go to the INPCRP webpage and scroll down to the section "Indiana Cemetery
>Laws", and click on the link:
>
>14-21-1-26.5 (Disturbance of soil within 100 of known cemetery or burial
>ground)
>
>This is in PDF format. This is the law you are asking about.
>
>Ernie
>
>At 04:14 PM 10/27/01, you wrote:
>>Jack:
>>You are correct! Our Area Plan Commission Director did not even know about
>>the 100 foot buffer zone until recently when we made them aware of it.
>>There answer to letting it slide was, "well, we wouldn't know if the land
>>had a cemetery on it or not, anyway, unless they told us." And, of course,
>>we know they are going to run right in and exclaim, WE HAVE A CEMETERY!
>>Nor, did the recorder or auditor know anything about placing it on a deed.
>>She says, "what do we do, ask everybody that comes in." No lady, just
>>collect your paycheck and don't worry about it! They just made the law for
>>other counties.
>>But, anyway Jack, what statute are you all referring to when you mention
>>the 100 ft. zone? Because, I have a question for you.
>>Jon
>>
>>
>>>From: Jb502000(a)aol.com
>>>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>>>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>>>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana Cemetery Law or not
>>>Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:40:04 EDT
>>>
>>>In a message dated 10/26/01 11:57:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>>>loismauk(a)home.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> > If this developer did, in fact, not "disturb the soil" and instead
>>>"built
>>> > up" the soil as he claims, does the prohibition against disturbing the
>>>soil
>>> > within 100 feet of the cemetery now extend to the NEW SOIL he put
>>>there? If
>>> > so, wouldn't the leveling he did of the new soil dumped next to the
>>>fence
>>> > constitute "disturbing the soil"?????
>>> >
>>> > Lois,
>>> > The original intent as we discussed it at the Falls, was the vibration
>>>of
>>> > heavy equipment close to the cemetery could cause damage to the stones
>>>by
>>> > vibration alone. Otherwise why would you be required to stay back 100
>>>feet.
>>> > And the law does not specify weather a piece of heavy equipment, or a
>>>hand
>>> > shovel may not be used within that distance without a supposed
>>> > Environmental Impact statement be filed. It would help get the point
>>>across
>>> > if someone knew if this Law is being enforced literally, or in theory
>>>only.
>>> > In other words, how do we know our reports are doing any good. A brief
>>> > message about some action taken occasionally would help keep our
>>>spirits
>>> > up. it would encourage us to be vigilant, instead of thinking "Why
>>>Bother"
>>> > As far as the Law, it is quite plain. The Developers, and Individuals
>>>are
>>> > not getting the message, and quite frankly I don't know that they ever
>>>will
>>> > unless it starts with a simple question at the Zoning Board Hearing, "
>>>Is
>>> > there a Graveyard on this Property " How else will EVERYONE become
>>>aware of
>>> > the Law.
>>>
>>>
>>>Jack E. Briles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>>>Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>
>>
>>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>>Please do not send queries through this list.
>>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of
>England
>and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
> "Show me the manner in which a nation or community
> cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
> exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
> respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
> to high ideals."
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Dear Susan:
Thanks for the encouraging words. You'll find the folks here on the INPCRP
are a wonderful group of human beings; they'll be happy to help with any
kind of advice or suggestions they can offer. I hope you'll keep us posted
as your investigation progresses.
Lois
Dear Susan:
There are a couple of great resources available on the INPCRP main webpage
to help you in your quest. Go to http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp
The first I would suggest to you would be Marlene Mattox's wonderful article
on researching cemetery deed records. You are apparently way ahead of the
game on this already, but I recommend reading this anyway. You need to
first be armed with the full recorded history of the cemetery (copy of the
deed, etc.)
By the way, the deed to the cemetery property, upon examination, may reveal
an easement for ingress and egress. Alternatively, it may be mentioned on
current or past deeds to the surrounding property. This is the right to
enter and exit across another's land. That might be very important in this
project.
Then you need to confirm through the County Auditor's Office that real
property taxes are NOT paid on the cemetery itself. I suggest you get
written confirmation of this from the County.
Assuming taxes are NOT paid on the cemetery property and armed with the
above information, photographs of the site (if possible), a map of the area
(see www.topozone.com) and a well-read copy of Indiana Code 23-14-68 (CARE
OF CEMETERIES BY TOWNSHIPS) [see
http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title23/ar14/ch68.html ], I then
suggest that you approach your Township Trustee [see
http://www.IN.gov/sboa/publications/roster/ for a current Roster of Indiana
State and Local Officals if you don't know who is the Trustee] in a
courteous, cooperative spirit to find out how you and the Trustee can work
together to protect and maintain this site.
To answer the question about the responsibilities of the owner of the
surrounding property, they are few to none. He/she/it has no obligation to
build a fence, though the Township Trustee does have a duty to do so.
There is a prohibition against "disturbing the soil" within 100 feet of a
known cemetery, but there is no duty for the owner of the surrounding
property to care for or maintain the cemetery, even if the cemetery were not
deeded out and remained a part of the surrounding property. For more
information, see IC 14-21-1-26.5 at
http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title14/ar21/ch1.html#IC14-21-1-26.5
If the cemetery is deeded out as I believe this one is, then the property
owner can't take advantage of the new special classification of cemeteries
on private property to receive a token assessment for tax purposes. For
more information, see IC 6-1.1-6.8 (ASSESSMENT OF CEMETERY LAND) at
http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title6/ar1.1/ch6.8.html
There is also no other "duty" for a surrounding property owner to permit or
allow ingress and egress to a cemetery that is "deeded out" from the rest of
the parcel, unless entry could be made without trespassing on the property
owner's surrounding land. (For instance, if the cemetery is bounded by a
public road, the owner of the surrounding property could not legally
restrict your access to the "deeded out" cemetery.) That is apparently not
the case. Again, I suggest you obtain a copy of the deed to the cemetery
itself AND a copy of the deeds going back 100 years or so for the
surrounding property. You may find that ingress and egress is set out in
the very old deed documents. Then you will have a much stronger leg to
stand on!
You didn't indicate what the new owners of the surrounding property intend
to do with the property. Do you believe that they intend to develop it or
will it continue to be use for residential/agricultural/commercial purposes?
If development is planned for the future, your interests would be
well-served to find out when any County Plan Commission hearings will be
held to discuss those plans.
Finally, assuming I understand the circumstances correctly, you've got an
"excepted" or "deeded" cemetery on which taxes are NOT paid. I suspect your
very best bet will be to work in cooperation with the Township Trustee to
gain access to the site to do maintenance pursuant to IC 23-14-68. I beg
you to not approach the Township Trustee in a threatening or aggressive
manner. There are all manner of reasons why he/she or his/her predecessors
in office did not maintain the site in the past. What's more important here
is the FUTURE and how interested parties such as yourself can participate in
IMPROVING the situation.
You might also want to type up a very SIMPLE petition to give to the
Township Trustee at your first meeting and collect signatures of family
members (especially those who live in the area. . . potential voters!) who
want to see the cemetery restored.
Don't forget to mention to the Township Trustee that he/she has access to
FREE LABOR in the form of inmate work crews and Community Service workers
who can assist with any heavy clean-up efforts.
Hope this was of some help.
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Barrett" <sbarrett(a)indy.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 9:30 PM
Subject: [INPCRP] Cemetery Preservation
> I am new at the quest for safe cemeteries. The land, my family's cemetery
is on, is being sold.The cemetery was deeded to the cemetery's successors
and if found recorded in the deeds office and in the grantor books. My
family does not own the land the cemetery is on. What rights as a descendant
do I have to protect that cemetery and what are the responsibilities of the
owner to the cemetery. I have contacted the realtor but I do not know the
legalities and she said she did not know anything about cemetery law. I need
to know if the new owner should fence in the cemetery, is that my
responsibility, and since there is no egress-ingress to this cemetery, does
the owner have to provide me with one if I want to go in and clean it up as
the old owner was very pleasant about allowing to happen. Thank you for all
your expertise. Susan
>
Holly Jenks has put some photos up on the web of damage at Oak Grove
Cemetery in LaPorte County as a result of the tornado that swept through
there earlier this week. Go to:
http://www.cartogra.com/rs/B54E3242-CB2B-11D5-B429-0090277A760E
(if this URL splits onto more than one line, you'll have the paste the rest
of it in to your browser).
The following message is from Holly:
The story of the flag pole....the flag is tattered and the pole bent in half
but it stands proudly in the cemetery. About 60 persons with chainsaws,
payloaders and trucks came to the rescue.
Now we need to add Tornados to the list of causes for cemetery destruction.
Other cemeteries had their trees destroyed too. One lady died and her prefab
home of only 4 mo was destroyed. Her house just flew away with her in it
and she and the house landed in a farm field across from this cemetery. We
are so lucky that nobody else was hurt. At least a 5 mile radius of the
cemetery had trees destroyed. The road was closed but sightseers went by
anyway. One group of ladies said they would stop but they needed gloves.
But there were gloves, they parked their car and dragged brush to the road.
Met so many nice people.
HOLLY Jenks
Laporte County
In a message dated 10/27/01 9:16:34 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
sbarrett(a)indy.net writes:
> I need to know if the new owner should fence in the cemetery, is that my
> responsibility, and since there is no egress-ingress to this cemetery, does
> the owner have to provide me with one if I want to go in and clean it up
I'll give someone else a chance to answer.
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Floyd County PCRP Coordinator
Po Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
Fax (812) 282-6585
I am new at the quest for safe cemeteries. The land, my family's cemetery is on, is being sold.The cemetery was deeded to the cemetery's successors and if found recorded in the deeds office and in the grantor books. My family does not own the land the cemetery is on. What rights as a descendant do I have to protect that cemetery and what are the responsibilities of the owner to the cemetery. I have contacted the realtor but I do not know the legalities and she said she did not know anything about cemetery law. I need to know if the new owner should fence in the cemetery, is that my responsibility, and since there is no egress-ingress to this cemetery, does the owner have to provide me with one if I want to go in and clean it up as the old owner was very pleasant about allowing to happen. Thank you for all your expertise. Susan
In a message dated 10/27/01 6:15:48 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
KidClerk(a)aol.com writes:
> . Let's all pray for these kids, because if I find
> them before the law does, they'll get a first hand view of the inside of
> one
> of those crypts, and it may not be an empty one this time...
>
> Kyle D. Conrad
AMEN to that.!!!!!!!!
>
> Jack E. Briles Sr.
Hi list:
Things got off to a bad start this weekend...as I was taking a digital photo
of a grave stone at Riverside Cemetery to e-mail to a researcher in Texas, I
discovered a hole in the stained glass window in our mausoleum. Upon further
investigation, the windows in both ends had holes in them, a marble crypt
slab had been damaged (empty crypt, thank God) and a couple of old tombstones
in the cemetery were broken. You won't see this in the paper, but I wanted
to post it to the list. We've had a rash of barn fires in the last couple of
weeks near town, and I guess they've moved on to bigger things. We suspect
kids since the barns that were burned and the cemetery are all within bike
riding distance from town. Let's all pray for these kids, because if I find
them before the law does, they'll get a first hand view of the inside of one
of those crypts, and it may not be an empty one this time...
Kyle D. Conrad
Jack:
You are correct! Our Area Plan Commission Director did not even know about
the 100 foot buffer zone until recently when we made them aware of it. There
answer to letting it slide was, "well, we wouldn't know if the land had a
cemetery on it or not, anyway, unless they told us." And, of course, we know
they are going to run right in and exclaim, WE HAVE A CEMETERY! Nor, did the
recorder or auditor know anything about placing it on a deed. She says,
"what do we do, ask everybody that comes in." No lady, just collect your
paycheck and don't worry about it! They just made the law for other
counties.
But, anyway Jack, what statute are you all referring to when you mention the
100 ft. zone? Because, I have a question for you.
Jon
>From: Jb502000(a)aol.com
>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana Cemetery Law or not
>Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:40:04 EDT
>
>In a message dated 10/26/01 11:57:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>loismauk(a)home.com writes:
>
>
> > If this developer did, in fact, not "disturb the soil" and instead
>"built
> > up" the soil as he claims, does the prohibition against disturbing the
>soil
> > within 100 feet of the cemetery now extend to the NEW SOIL he put there?
> If
> > so, wouldn't the leveling he did of the new soil dumped next to the
>fence
> > constitute "disturbing the soil"?????
> >
> > Lois,
> > The original intent as we discussed it at the Falls, was the vibration
>of
> > heavy equipment close to the cemetery could cause damage to the stones
>by
> > vibration alone. Otherwise why would you be required to stay back 100
>feet.
> > And the law does not specify weather a piece of heavy equipment, or a
>hand
> > shovel may not be used within that distance without a supposed
> > Environmental Impact statement be filed. It would help get the point
>across
> > if someone knew if this Law is being enforced literally, or in theory
>only.
> > In other words, how do we know our reports are doing any good. A brief
> > message about some action taken occasionally would help keep our spirits
> > up. it would encourage us to be vigilant, instead of thinking "Why
>Bother"
> > As far as the Law, it is quite plain. The Developers, and Individuals
>are
> > not getting the message, and quite frankly I don't know that they ever
>will
> > unless it starts with a simple question at the Zoning Board Hearing, "
>Is
> > there a Graveyard on this Property " How else will EVERYONE become aware
>of
> > the Law.
>
>
>Jack E. Briles
>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>
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