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Angela,
Just read your letter and I know of a cementery in Knightstown that would
need to be cleaned up, don't know if the one you have listed is the same one
or not.
I grew up at the Children's Home and I can remember close to Memorial Day
we would practice putting flags on the graves as we would do this every year.
To do it we would practice on an old cememtery that had the grave markers
broken and graves sunk in and weeds and everything was really a mess. I
remembger them telling us kids that the cememtery was from the Civil War.
I don't know what happened to the place afterI left there as I left in
the 60's. I don't even know if it is still there but if you maybe find out
for me I would really like to know.
I live out here in Colorado and am just really learning how to do some of
the stuff on the computer. I don't know if the cementery had a name or not,
but as years went by I always wondered about it.
I talked to a lady in Grant County, in Marion Ind. as she runs the
Estates of Serenity Cementery there about it and she told me she knew some
guy that does things like this for the old cementeries and if I could write
her and let her know more she would get in touch with him and he would check
into it.
Hope someone can find it.
Barbara Clasby Clasbycountryboy(a)aol.com
Susan, I have 5 cemeteries I am going out to tomorrow to get GPS readings on,
and guess what, Scott cemetery off Greenvalley rd is # 3 on my list.I am
putting together a book with all 121 know, or suspected Pioneer Cemeteries
and Burial Sites in Floyd County. It will have the names of all known
burials, listed alphabetically, page number, name of cemetery, Twp. Cemetery
number, and GPS coordinates, along with the best location description I can
give. I have Scott Cem. opened in front of me now, and I see Richard Lewis,
bn. July 22,1759 Rowan Co. North Carolina, Pvt. Revolutionary War. Died
1827.His wife was Lydia (Field) Lewis Bn. 1763, died 1852, New Albany, In. I
believe she Remarried. ? As for the Cemetery, I can talk to the New Albany
Twp. Trustee after I see it, if it needs cleaning. The Corrections Dept. has
Community Service help keep up the cemeteries in Floyd Co. When they are
available. In fact number 2 Saturday is at the old Floyd County (Poor Farm,
or Asylum, built in 1874, off Grantline rd. When I look at their cemetery I
can check on a work crew if needed. I hope not. I'll keep you informed. Do
you have relatives or ancestors buried there.
Jack Briles
jb502000(a)aol.com
Jeffersonville, Ind..
I'm sure there are better or maybe cheaper devices out there, the one I bought
about a year ago at Dick's Sporting Goods was the Garmin "Etrex". See:
http://www.garmin.com/products/etrex/
I think it cost me about $119.
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: "wmmahan" <wmmahan(a)comsys.net>
To: <INPCRP-L-request(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 2:21 PM
Subject: Fw: [INPCRP] Gemeteries and GPS
> What is the cost of the GPS?
>
>
Joyce, my daughter and I have been using this program for over a year, I
belive. it was in black and white. She got it from a Cartographer thru the
Girl Scouts. I belive then it may have been run by Microsoft ? But thank's,
Others should begin to learn about GPS and It's benifits. I use it to target
my cemeterys with the cross hair, Click and make the Red Target then print.
It can be very useful. Thanks alot
Jack Briles
jb502000(a)aol.com
I work in the Geography Department at IUPUI and I received this message today and thought that Jack Briles with his GPS (as well as some others) might be interested in this site. There are no fees for its use and it does have the UTM on the status bar when you slide your mouse over different parts of the map. I know there are other similar sites out there but sometimes it takes a while to find them and this one looked fairly easy to use. Go the the map tips on the left hand side of the page for some useful info about map sizes, etc. By going to a large map (if your browser and hookup will allow it and using 1:25,000 you can get some fairly detailed info. Joyce Haibe
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:13:59 -0500
> From: Bill Everett <partners(a)topozone.com>
> Subject: Introducing the TopoZone, the Online Geography Resource
>
> Greetings.
>
> My name is Bill Everett and I am the President of Maps a la carte, Inc., the company that owns and operates the TopoZone.com web site (www.topozone.com). TopoZone was the first site to provide seamless viewable and searchable USGS topographic maps of the United States on the Web.
>
> My partner Ed McNierney and I are very strong believers in the value of geography education worldwide and we wanted to introduce our site to you and make sure that you were aware of this powerful teaching resource on the Web. There are no fees to use TopoZone and we recently released a second version of our site with enhanced cartographic tools and map display capabilities. We encourage you to link from your departmental sites to TopoZone and take full advantage of our searching and map display capabilities. In addition, you may want to use some of the hot link features of our intelligent icons to assist in teaching or for reference purposes. It is easy to do by following the instructions on the "Link to Us" section of our site
>
> We are very proud that to have been selected as the #1 Geography Site on the Internet by About.com in January 2000 and we think our recent site enhancements make us even better. We serve almost 5 million pages of mapping data per month on TopoZone and through our licensees such as MapQuest.com. We hope that you will accept our invitation to take full advantage of a United States mapping resource that you may not have heard of before.
>
> Very best wishes.
>
> Bill Everett
> President
> Maps a la carte, Inc./TopoZone.com
> bill(a)topozone.com
>
> TopoZone.com.....We Put the Country on the Map!
> Free Online Topographic Maps of the United States a Click Away!
In a message dated 1/12/01 12:59:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Jb502000
writes:
>
> >> Subj: Re: [INPCRP] Cemeteries and GPS
>> Date: 1/12/01 10:40:18 AM US Eastern Standard Time
>> From: john-sedonna(a)bpsinet.com (John and Sedonna)
>> Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com">INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com</A>
>> To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack,
>>
>> I have asked this question in the past. Who do I contact to get funds to
>> clean up two Pioneer Cemeteries in Grant County.
>>
>> They are the Lobdell Cemetery and the Bocock-Hobaugh-Hummel Cemetery here
>> in
>> Central Indiana. These Cemeteries are overgrown with trees, some mature,
>> and the two Cemeteries are on private land..........Should the Township
>> Trustees be contacted or the DNR........I am very interested in getting
>> something going on these two cemeteries before it is too late.
>>
>> Please advise.
>>
>> John A. Roush
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> John, first the DNR doesn't have anything to do with cleaning a cemetery.
> Only recording them, and protecting them under the law. Second you need to
> find out the names of the owners of the property and check with the CO.
> Recorder or assessor to see if there are deeds to the respective
> cemeteries. If there are deeds, then there have been no taxes paid on them.
> Then they fall under IC 23-14-68. "Care of Cemeteries by Townships". ---
> IC 23-14-68-1 Sec. 1 (a) This Chapter applies to each cemetery that; "
> (1). is without funds for maintenance. (2.) was in existence on February
> 28, 1939 (3) is operated by a nonprofit organization or is not managed by
> any viable organization (b)This chapter does not apply to a cemetery
> located on land on which property taxes are assessed and paid under IC 6-1.
> 1-4 IC 23-14-68-2, Sec. 2. The Trustee of each Township Shall locate
> and maintain the cemeteries described in Sec. 1 (a) of this chapter that
> are within the township. IC 23-14-68-3, For the purpose of this chapter,
> the maintenance of a cemetery includes the following; (1) Resetting and
> straightening all monuments. (2) Leveling the ground. (3) Constructing
> Fences where there are none, and repairing existing fences. (4) Destroying
> and cleaning up detrimental plants (as defined in IC 15-3-4-1) noxious
> weeds, and rank vegetation 23-14-68-4, Sec 4. (a).the Twp. shall
> appropriate enough money to provide for the care, repair and maintenance
> of each cemetery described in Sec. 1 (a) of this chapter that is located
> within this township. Funds Shall be appropriated under this subsection in
> the same manner as other township appropriations (b) The Twp. may levy a
> Twp. Cemetery Tax to create a fund for maintenance of cemeteries under this
> chapter. If a fund has not been provided for maintenance of cemeteries
> under this chapter, part of the Twp. fund may be used. IC 23-14-68-5, Sec
> 5. A Twp who fails to perform the trustee' duties under this chapter
> commits a class C infraction. NOW if the Trustee can't help, because the
> owners have been paying taxes, you will have to talk to the property owners
> and see if they will cooperate in some manner since the Trustee can't help.
> Maybe by allowing volunteers to clean them up. You would probably have to
> sign a paper absolving the owner of any responsibility for injuries. And
> only access the cemeteries when conditions are right to avoid damage to
> fields. Mabye if the Trustee is able to help mabye the Co. Corrections
> Dept. Has some people doing community service punishment that they could
> put out to help. I could go on all day, but you will have to get a copy of
> the farmers deeds and see if there is an exception for a cemetery, then you
> can get help, otherwise you are pretty much at the mercy of the owners. You
> might remind them as of July 1, 2000 that you may not disturb the ground
> within 100 ft. of a cemetery, without filing an Environmental Impact
> Statement with the DNR. And you can't sell property with a cemetery on it
> without a disclosure on the bottom of the deed in bold print that there is
> a cemetery on the Land. Start making phone calls. Check the deeds. then
> take it from there. If you talk to the farmers be very nice, I'm sure they
> would do something if they believe you are sincere.
> Good Luck, keep me informed, Jack Briles
> jb502000(a)aol.Com
> Jeffersonville, Ind.
>
Rich, I set my unit on NAD 27, and UMT settings. I also know about the
"Denial of Accuracy by the Military". I learned this early on helping a
Surveyor using GPS.. I noted the Time and cold Cloudy conditions yesterday,
and t plan on a reading on a Cold clear day, and this spring on A warm clear
day, and a cloudy warm day from the spot we marked with a rock, at 2:45 PM
each afternoon. I also have a friend that is going to check against my unit
to see the degree of accuracy, or difference between the two. I am also aware
of Multi Path Errors, which means the signal travels to the unit from more
than one source (Reflected from Buildings, Etc.) There are "Atmospheric
Errors" determined by the radio signals traveling through the Atmosphere at
different speeds due to the time of day or night, the season, the angle the
signal travels through the atmosphere plus other causes. Also you have errors
caused by Imperfections in the equipment, "Receiver Errors" caused by not
matching the Satellite Signals. The "Denial of accuracy" by the military
doesn't hurt to much if you have 2 units, and one is on a known fixed
position, then you can compare them for accuracy, probably within
approximately + or - 2 PPM. They alter the Satellite position, or the message
broadcast. This sometimes can cause quite a difference for a single unit. I
was up late Thursday night and thought we should discuss this subject, so
those out there could think about it, and see if they thought it would be
useful to them. Not everyone believes in, or knows about GPS. Also,The reason
for the military's "Denial of accuracy" at various times (Rare) is to keep
our potential Enemies from thinking they can depend on the system 100%.
Normally the errors when created are about 75 to 100 meters, but if the
military is having problems, it's greater. I still see a viable use for
recording Pioneer cemeteries by this method for the future when all the
stones in a cemetery are gone, like they are here in Southern Indiana, to
prevent someone digging or building on the spot. this way at least they can
tell closer where there are burials, then they can by guessing, or not
knowing at all. Rich and Lois, I appreciate your responses, I hope others
will consider something like this for recording cemeteries where it would be
cost prohibitive to have a Surveyor come in for a 20 X 20 site. I just don't
want to lose anymore cemeteries. Respectively, Jack Briles
jb502000@aol,com
Jeffersonville, Ind.
Jack,
I have asked this question in the past. Who do I contact to get funds to
clean up two Pioneer Cemeteries in Grant County.
They are the Lobdell Cemetery and the Bocock-Hobaugh-Hummel Cemetery here in
Central Indiana. These Cemeteries are overgrown with trees, some mature,
and the two Cemeteries are on private land..........Should the Township
Trustees be contacted or the DNR........I am very interested in getting
something going on these two cemeteries before it is too late.
Please advise.
John A. Roush
Lois, I have been fooling around with my GPS, trying to figure out how it
could be used to locate a Cemetery maybe years from now without any stones in
it, and still know it is a burial site. I went out this afternoon with a
fellow in Harrison Co. and he showed me exactly where a Burial ground had
been, but was destroyed by a farmer years ago. I asked about where the center
would be. He stood in the center and I set my GPS on UMT (Universal
Transverse Mercaitor Grid) and stood still in the center for about 2-3
minutes until it stopped, then I recorded the East and then the North
readings ( which I knew was in the Kosmosdale, Ky Quadrangle, across the Ohio
River,) I tested it out, I measured 10 ft. over, moved to there, waited and
it changed 9 numbers to the East. I believe this would be a perfect way to
simply record the location. Anyone could do it if I can. I could show you the
general area, and by moving, then stopping for it to adjust after 3 Sat.
rotations of the needle until you found the spot where I had stood today. And
you would be in the center of the barren Cemetery. This is much more accurate
and easier to do then Lat. and Lon. readings. I tried both ways. (UMT)
readings shows the slightest movement. That is how I am going to do all the
Pioneer Cemeteries in Floyd Co. Unless someone comes up with something
better. UMT is used on Topographical Maps by the US Geological Survey using
True North. I plan on putting the readings from the center of all cemeteries
I work on, on the page. In the future everyone will have a locator. If anyone
has a better Idea let me Know. I got tired of staying inside.
Jack Briles
jb502000(a)aol.com
Jeffersonville, Ind.
Hello all,
I am in the process of having an old pioneer cemetery in Brown Twp., Hancock Co.cleaned/restored. I 'm not having much luck. I've talked with the trustee, commisioner, auditor, etc... the list goes on and on. I will be going before a commisioner's meeting probably in the next week or two. I will be doing a report on all the research of the cemetery that I've done, along with pictures, letters from cousins/family wanting it clean-up, etc.. I was hoping any one out there would want to put their two cents worth about the neglect of our pioneer cemeteries into my report. If you do, please write a letter to the commisioner's board (Joe Settles) and e-mail them to me. I need all the help I can get. It's going to be a big fight. I can see it already. Thanks for your time!
Angela Tielking
tielking(a)knightstown.net
I just learned from Rep. Lytle's assistant, Mr. Clint McKay, that Lytle is
introducing some bill dealing with cemeteries, but it is not yet in the
system. The filing deadline is 2:00 today.
IMHO, I think this year would be a great year for cemetery and historic
preservation legislation, since these non-partisan issues should appeal to
both sides of the aisle, and are hard to debate (unless there would be
significant impact for the state budget).
Last summer, I presented a proposal to the Natural Resources Legislative
Study Committee for legislation authorizing a program of "classified"
cemeteries, burial grounds, archaeological sites, and historic sites,
modeled on the "classified forest" program. This program gives private
landowners who committ to following a state-approved forest conservation
plan, a little reduction in property taxes. My idea is that the same
could apply to cemeteries and burial grounds, and significant prehistoric
and historic sites that are on the state register.
(Yes, we are supposed to have a register of cemeteries and burial grounds,
per last year's legislation. Its just a little slow in gearing up.)
I will try to learn more about the legislation to be introduced by Lytle,
and write back to INPCRP.
______________________________________
Cheryl Ann Munson
Archaeology, Rm. 190 or: Department of Anthropology
2611 East 10th Street Student Building 130
Indiana University Indiana University
Bloomington, IN 47408 Bloomington, IN 47405
Phone: (812) 855-0528 FAX: (812) 855-4358
FAX: (812) 855-1845
e-mail: munsonc(a)indiana.edu
***********************************************************************
On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Lois Mauk wrote:
> I just checked the list of House and Senate Bills introduced thus far in this
> new Legislative Session and my cursory examination found nothing pertaining to
> cemeteries or burial places. You can check the list yourself at:
> http://www.state.in.us/serv/lsa_billinfo?year=2001&request=all#house
> as it's entirely possible I missed something.
>
> We never heard from Rep. Lytle in response to our inquiries about the outcome
> of the six meetings held this past summer by the Natural Resources Study
> Committee (joint House and Senate body). The last minutes posted to:
> http://www.ai.org/legislative/interim/committees/nrsc.html
> were for the first of those meetings (7/25/2000). The final meeting was held
> on 10/26/2000.
>
> Has anybody else heard anything about our favorite issue being addressed in
> this Session?
>
> Lois
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
> Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
>
>
______________________________________
Cheryl Ann Munson
Archaeology, Rm. 190 or: Department of Anthropology
2611 East 10th Street Student Building 130
Indiana University Indiana University
Bloomington, IN 47408 Bloomington, IN 47405
Phone: (812) 855-0528 FAX: (812) 855-4358
FAX: (812) 855-1845
e-mail: munsonc(a)indiana.edu
***********************************************************************
For information about research at the Hovey Lake and Bone Bank
archaeological sites:
http://www.indiana.edu/~archaeo
and /~archaeo/bone_bank
http://www.iuinfo.indiana.edu/ocm/releases/bonebank.htmhttp://www.homepages.indiana.edu/111000/text/pursuit.htmlhttp://www.courierpress.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?200011/05/+dig110500_news.ht...
1105+new
http://www.idsnews.com/story.php3?id=2172
***********************************************************************
Lois and group:
While there may be a chance to get something in quick, I visted with three of
my Senator friends on Monday while I was in Indy and the only topics getting
any attention are the budget, redistricting, and election voting system/voter
registration reform. There will be so much fighting on these three topics
that there may not be time for anything else. Unless someone previously
discussed this with a legislator before the session began, it might be hard
to get cemetery legislation filed now...which might not be all bad for this
year.
Kyle D. Conrad
I just checked the list of House and Senate Bills introduced thus far in this
new Legislative Session and my cursory examination found nothing pertaining to
cemeteries or burial places. You can check the list yourself at:
http://www.state.in.us/serv/lsa_billinfo?year=2001&request=all#house
as it's entirely possible I missed something.
We never heard from Rep. Lytle in response to our inquiries about the outcome
of the six meetings held this past summer by the Natural Resources Study
Committee (joint House and Senate body). The last minutes posted to:
http://www.ai.org/legislative/interim/committees/nrsc.html
were for the first of those meetings (7/25/2000). The final meeting was held
on 10/26/2000.
Has anybody else heard anything about our favorite issue being addressed in
this Session?
Lois
In a message dated 1/7/01 6:17:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
tielking(a)knightstown.net writes:
> Subj: [INPCRP] cemeteries on private property
> Date: 1/7/01 6:17:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time
> From: tielking(a)knightstown.net (G Tielking)
> Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com">INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com</A>
> To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
> I have a question about an old family cemetery on privately owned property.
> I recently found out where my Revolutionary War ancestor is buried. And to
> my dismay, he is buried in what is now a farm field/pasture land. What few
> headstones are there, are broken and in a pile. Is there anything I can do
> to "resurrect" what used to be the family cemetery? I was searching on the
> site for laws pertaining to cemeteries on privately owned land. I did not
> see one.
> If anybody out there has any advice for me I would appreciate it. I think
> it's very disrespectful to my ancestors. Does anybody know of laws
> regarding an issue such as this?
> Sincerely,
> Angela Tielking
> tielking(a)knightstown.net
>
>
> Hi Angela,
Indiana Cemetery Questions and Answers From;
Indiana Department of Natural Resources, Division of Historical Preservation
and Archaeology
The following is from the 10 most commonly asked questions and answers the
DHPA recieves reguarding cemeteries and the Laws protecting them.
Question number ( 3 ) "If I want to clean-up a cemetery I'm Concerned
about, may I go ahead and do so" ? ANSWER No. Members of the public should
not attempt to clean or maintain, cemeteries until they have determined who
the legal property owner is, and obtained that persons permission to go on
the land. Unsolicited voluntary clean-up efforts might be viewed by the
landowner as tresspassing. In addition there are proper ways as well as
harmfull ways, to clean and repair stone's, and anyone attempting to conduct
such activities should be aquainted with the proper technique.
Question number ( 8 ) " I know of a situation where a farmer removed
Tombstones from a field in order to gain more agricultural land to use. Can
he be Penalized for that.? Also, is it allowable for farm animals to go
thru the cemeteries and knock stone's over.? ANSWER The Law no longer
allows an exemption for agricultuar activities. If someone damages stone's by
conducting animal husbandry or agricultuar activities, they may be charged
with a criminal violation. If buried human remains are discovered, the
discovery must be reported to the DNR within two business days.
If I were you i would find out who owns the property, and see if you can
get permission to go to the cemetery. Take a camera ( Out of site) and shoot
a roll of pictures from every direction showing the stones, and the general
area where you belive the burial area to be. I f possible use a Day-Date
camera so you can show when the pictures were taken. Also if as you say,
there is a Veteran buried there, contact the DAR or the American Legion to
see if they have a copy of a Veteran buried there. If they do it will give
the location, then you have to find out if the cemetery was ever Recorder or
Deeded. If there is a Deed, then no taxes was ever paid on the site. Then the
Township trustee should contact the landowner and see what, if anything can
be done. If there is no deed then you would have to talk nicely to the owner
to see what could be done. He might let you have a fence put up around it,
but I doubt it. But if you tell him you have a relative there who is a
Veteran, then he might let you do something. He cannot now, legally damage
the stone's, or remove them from the area under penalty of Law. Check and see
if you can find a record of a cemetery there. You would have to know the
section number. As of July 1, 2000, he cannot disturb the ground within 100
feet of a known burial site without filing an Environmental Impact Statement
of his intentions beside the cemetery, they have 60 days to answer. But with
that being farmland I think he can plow close to the area. You might contact
the local DNR Officer and discuss this with him. Try to get him to talk to
The owner. Or you can Call the DHPA and talk to Dr. Rick Jones, or Amy
Johnson at (317) 232-1646. Explain what is going on, and see if they will
contact the DNR Officer. You won't know if you don't try. We have to stop the
DESTRUCTION of our Pioneer Cemeteries. Sorry I can't Help
Good Luck,
Jack Briles
jb502000(a)aol.com
Jeffersonville, In.
Hello,
I have a question about an old family cemetery on privately owned property. I recently found out where my Revolutionary War ancestor is buried. And to my dismay, he is buried in what is now a farm field/pasture land. What few headstones are there, are broken and in a pile. Is there anything I can do to "resurrect" what used to be the family cemetery? I was searching on the site for laws pertaining to cemeteries on privately owned land. I did not see one.
If anybody out there has any advice for me I would appreciate it. I think it's very disrespectful to my ancestors. Does anybody know of laws regarding an issue such as this?
Sincerely,
Angela Tielking
tielking(a)knightstown.net
Contacting the news media about cemeteries will only be replied to around
the last week in October. This is a FACT. If Art Dillman had redidicated
the Little Flock Cemetery Oct 30., the media would have been there in force.
Ron Baldwin - inviting the Herald Times to interview me about Indiana
Cemetry Laws.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sue Silver <ssilver1951(a)jps.net>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Re: Cemetery Protection, or should I say Lack of it.
>Lois,
>
>Has anyone with INPCRP ever tried to invite one or two of the politicians
to
>a tour of the cemeteries in their districts? Perhaps some of the members
>throughout the state could invite their representatives to take the tour so
>they can see first hand why so many people are concerned. One of the
places
>each could take them is to a spot where an historic cemetery SHOULD still
be
>but isn't because of development or a farmer who's plowed it under.
>
>A formal written invitation to tour during a recess period might do the
>trick. If they don't respond and accept, then the INPCRP host should
invite
>their local newspaper reporter and advise the reporter the politician had
>been invited but declined.
>
>Just a thought....if each invitation letter were to open with, "Members of
>the INPCRP have been asked to provide their district representatives with a
>tour of the at risk historic cemeteries within their districts...." "As a
>part of this effort, I would like to extend an invitation to you to
>participate in a tour I am scheduling...." etc. and so on. Ask that the
>politician advise what dates would be convenient for him/her and then
>schedule one of those dates with an alternate date as back up.
>
>Sue Silver
>California
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mary Baldwin <mjbaldwin0(a)yahoo.com>
>To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 7:10 AM
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Re: Cemetery Protection, or should I say Lack of it.
>
>
>> Lois: Please don't stop INPCRP!
>> Yes laws are useless and there has been a lot of
>> spitting in the wind. But this organization is a thorn
>> in the side of the politicians. Pioneer cemeteries
>> need to continue being a thorn. We know the
>> politicians are clue less, laws are not enforced, new
>> laws are bureaucracy full of red tape. Without this
>> list no one would know the state of our cemeteries.
>> The future of our cemeteries are doomed unless caring
>> people continue to educate the legislation and public.
>>
>> Let's hear from everyone else , don't be shy!
>> There are 92 counties and undoubtedly we are losing
>> one out of each county a year.
>> Lois keep up the good work, we are behind you 200%.
>> Mary Jane and Ron Baldwin
>> --- Lois Mauk <LoisMauk(a)home.com> wrote:
>> > Oh, Jack, what a sad and pathetic story! I
>> > certainly understand your
>> > frustration with the whole process. This state of
>> > affairs makes me physically
>> > ill!
>> >
>> > I know better than some how sincere and passionate
>> > you are about the plight of
>> > these abused, neglected or simply forgotten
>> > cemeteries that have become
>> > nothing more than a thorn in the side of so many
>> > property owners who view them
>> > only as a nuisance, an impediment to the "highest
>> > and best possible use" of
>> > the real estate.
>> >
>> > You're right, Jack, that the current "system" of
>> > laws and regulations with
>> > respect to pioneer cemeteries has nothing to do with
>> > respect, compassion or
>> > simple human dignity.
>> >
>> > So, they found a descendant of the Smith Family,
>> > paid him/her $1 to sign a
>> > consent form and then filed a Petition to Disinter
>> > with the local Circuit
>> > Court? Sounds like the Court gave them permission
>> > to obliterate the cemetery
>> > with a backhoe and people with ZERO training in
>> > archeology or identifying
>> > human remains dumped what they believe were remains
>> > into boxes and they were
>> > deposited into what sounds like a single-grave plot
>> > at Fairview Cemetery. I
>> > guess we're lucky they didn't "donate" the remains
>> > to a University for 3 or 4
>> > years of archeological "research".
>> >
>> > Did they leave all the original stones on the
>> > original site? I think that's
>> > what you were saying. Did they just throw the
>> > stones on the trash heap?
>> >
>> > Oh, wow! Deja vouz. Can we remember Rhoades
>> > Cemetery in Indianapolis? How
>> > about Wilhoit Cemetery in Dubois County? And let's
>> > not forget this is exactly
>> > what they wanted to do at Braner Cemetery in
>> > Sullivan County. What about the
>> > dozens of cemeteries that have been "relocated" down
>> > around Pike and Knox Co.?
>> > And what about the hundreds of others that we don't
>> > know a thing about?
>> >
>> > Damn it, if these landowners covet these little
>> > tracts of land so desperately
>> > that they are willing to obliterate a pioneer
>> > family's cemetery, is it REALLY
>> > too much for the State to COMPEL the landowners to
>> > utilize the services of an
>> > archeologist to extract the remains in a
>> > compassionate way and to reinter
>> > those remains in a way that preserves a shred of
>> > human dignity?
>> >
>> > Funeral directors generally have little or no
>> > training in exhumation of
>> > ancient remains. They might be entirely competent
>> > to supervise relocation of
>> > a recent-times vault and/or casket, but we're
>> > talking about wooden caskets and
>> > human remains buried 150+ years ago. There ain't
>> > gonna be much left and
>> > certainly nothing resembling a complete skeleton
>> > like you would see in the
>> > movies or on TV.
>> >
>> > You're absolutely right, Jack, that Native American
>> > remains would never (in
>> > this day and age) be treated in this manner! Don't
>> > get me wrong! I don't
>> > begrudge a speck of the regulation of Native
>> > American artifacts and remains.
>> > But are Caucasian or African-American or Asian
>> > remains entitled to so much
>> > less????
>> >
>> > Like you, Jack, I am utterly dismayed that no one in
>> > a position of authority
>> > (1) can seem to understand the true breadth or
>> > urgency of the problem, (2) can
>> > answer our simple questions in a meaningful way, (3)
>> > can enforce the laws that
>> > are on the books, or (4) can grasp the incongruity
>> > of existing statutes, rules
>> > and regulations.
>> >
>> > And, in the same breadth, their sabers have been
>> > rattled with allegations that
>> > WE are somehow doing something wrong when we venture
>> > into an old cemetery that
>> > has been totally ignored and forgotten for decades
>> > and want to probe for
>> > buried stones for the sole purpose of repairing and
>> > restoring them!
>> >
>> > Maybe no one but us cares! Are we just spitting in
>> > the wind here? Are we
>> > doing ANYTHING meaningful?
>> >
>> > Apparently NOBODY can make the Trustees do their
>> > jobs if they are not inclined
>> > to do so (the County Commissioners have no authority
>> > over the Trustees and the
>> > Trustees do not have to report their activity or
>> > lack thereof to anybody).
>> > Apparently NOBODY can craft a simple statute that
>> > would make the relocation of
>> > a pioneer cemetery a dignified and respectful
>> > process which would incorporate
>> > the State Department of Health and the State
>> > Department of Natural Resources'
>> > overview to guarantee that it was done properly,
>> > including filing
>> > comprehensive reports with the County Recorder and
>> > every public library in the
>> > county.
>> >
>> > To tell you the truth, Jack, I am about 2 seconds
>> > from killing the INPCRP and
>> > the Clark Co. Cemetery Preservation Committee
>> > websites and saying, "Just
>> > FORGET it! It's pointless!"
>> >
>> > Lois
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
>> > To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>> > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 2:43 AM
>> > Subject: [INPCRP] Re: Cemetery Protection, or should
>> > I say Lack of it.
>> >
>> >
>> > > Today, I visited the site of a Pioneer cemetery.
>> > Or where it had been, with
>> > 7
>> > > Stones on the site, there had been 1 very Large
>> > one with 2 names on it,
>> > man
>> > > and wife. I also Visited the Site where the
>> > remains ??? had been moved. The
>> > 5
>> > > Marble tablets looked very nice. They had been
>> > sanded nice and white, A very
>> > > nice site. Unless you see 3 places where the
>> > ground was dug up to put Small
>> > > Cremation Boxes of Remains of a minimum of 8
>> > people. The size of the burial
>> > > spots for at least 8 people looked like someone
>> > had buried 3 very very small
>> > > Children. They were moved to Fairview Cemetery in
>> > New Albany. The Cemetery
>> > > Superintendent said A very small amount of
>> > remains were found, so they were
>> > > buried in "Small" cremation Boxes. The old Smith
>> > Family Burying ground would
>> > > possibly have been at the front door of a Large
>> > Planned Department Store. I
>> > > do not want anyone to misunderstand me. I don't
>> > object to the Removal.
>> > > Ceasers Gambling Riverboat on Property 6 inches
>> > from the Floyd Line, Had the
>> > > Remains of Native Americans buried There, and the
>> > Archeologist from 1 or 2
>> > > Indiana State universities worked there for a
>> > year, The reason, before
>> > > anything could be built there, the site had to be
>> > thoroughly examined, and
>> > > all Ancient remains Recovered and eventually
>> > turned over to Native Americans
>> > > for a Proper Reburial, according to their customs.
>> > I think this was all done
>> > > properly, and more then likely with dignity. But
>> > we Caucasians, as we are
>> > > known (my family did not come from the Cacuces),
>> > And I'm not (Native
>> > > American, I'm White), So were the Smith Family.
>> > But apparently our Customs
>> > > For a Proper disinterment, and Reinternment, don't
>> > count for much. The
>> > > Cemetery was moved completely??? in one day,
>> > actually less, and dirt was
>> > > hauled in immediately and the site was covered. I
>> > don't know why, the whole
>> > > area is going to be graded level.
>> > > The State Health Department, and the
>> > Department of Historic
>> > > Preservation, and Archaeology, the very people
>> > these LAWS have been
>> > delegated
>> >
>> === message truncated ===
>>
>>
>> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>> If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living?
>>
>>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>Please do not send queries through this list.
>
>
I may be naive, but I think Rep. Welch and Rep. Lytle are genuinely trying
to help in protection of cemeteries. It's not there fault Cemetey Laws were
directed to the DNR of all places. I believe if they could, they would pass
legislation to prevent moving of cemeteries. But now we need Legislation
that directs, not encouages the preservation of cemeteries. We need to bring
cases before them such as Jack's recent example.
Ron Baldwin
-----Original Message-----
From: UEB <ulyssesb(a)nltc.net>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:58 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] MONEY $$
>I have began to realize that the only way we can accomplish any progress on
getting any laws passed or enforced in our favor is to donate thousands of
dollars to the campaigns of the politicians who look you straight in the eye
and tell you what you want to hear, then forget all about you as soon they
leave, because I am not a lobbyist and I didn't contribute anything to their
campaign fund.
>Now if I represented a big oil company, shopping mall builder, a utility
company or any other large corporation that needed land to build on, do you
think I would get what I want?, sure I would, I give thousands of dollars
to the politicians for their campaign funds.
>It's not right, but that's the way it is, and always will be until we have
campaign reforms to put a stop to it.
>If you feel that I am wrong on this, please prove me wrong.
>
>U. E. Bush
>Henry County, IN
>INPCRP
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of
>"UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com
> or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)
>
>
This is perfect example of Indiana Cemetery Care, that should be brought
before the Legislation.
There are laws to protect Native American Sites. (It is obvious Professional
people assisted in this legislation.) Cheryl Munson is of this type and is
trying to assist us in our goals.
Jack, you are needed to advise Cheryl in your observations of what is going
on in the real world of Cemeteries. She is clearly aware of endangered
historic sites, but we consider our cemeteries just as important as a 4
thousand year old campsite.
Lois, you are the glue that holds us together in our efforts to protect what
is vanishing at an unstoppable rate.
Please forward this and Jack's letter to Rep. Peggy Welch and Rep. Lytle, I
am too upset to concentrate on what the hell I am doing.
Ron Baldwin
-----Original Message-----
From: Jb502000(a)aol.com <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Saturday, February 10, 2001 1:44 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] Re: Cemetery Protection, or should I say Lack of it.
>Today, I visited the site of a Pioneer cemetery. Or where it had been, with
7
>Stones on the site, there had been 1 very Large one with 2 names on it,
man
>and wife. I also Visited the Site where the remains ??? had been moved. The
5
>Marble tablets looked very nice. They had been sanded nice and white, A
very
>nice site. Unless you see 3 places where the ground was dug up to put Small
>Cremation Boxes of Remains of a minimum of 8 people. The size of the burial
>spots for at least 8 people looked like someone had buried 3 very very
small
>Children. They were moved to Fairview Cemetery in New Albany. The Cemetery
>Superintendent said A very small amount of remains were found, so they
were
>buried in "Small" cremation Boxes. The old Smith Family Burying ground
would
>possibly have been at the front door of a Large Planned Department Store. I
>do not want anyone to misunderstand me. I don't object to the Removal.
>Ceasers Gambling Riverboat on Property 6 inches from the Floyd Line, Had
the
>Remains of Native Americans buried There, and the Archeologist from 1 or 2
>Indiana State universities worked there for a year, The reason, before
>anything could be built there, the site had to be thoroughly examined, and
>all Ancient remains Recovered and eventually turned over to Native
Americans
>for a Proper Reburial, according to their customs. I think this was all
done
>properly, and more then likely with dignity. But we Caucasians, as we are
>known (my family did not come from the Cacuces), And I'm not (Native
>American, I'm White), So were the Smith Family. But apparently our Customs
>For a Proper disinterment, and Reinternment, don't count for much. The
>Cemetery was moved completely??? in one day, actually less, and dirt was
>hauled in immediately and the site was covered. I don't know why, the whole
>area is going to be graded level.
> The State Health Department, and the Department of Historic
>Preservation, and Archaeology, the very people these LAWS have been
delegated
>to oversee, and Protect our Pioneers, Did not Even Know the Site was being
>moved. It was over before I could call Indianapolis and Check on the
removal.
>When I do call, no one can answer my questions, they have to get back with
>me. (Don't Happen) I have been checking all day today to find out where
they
>were the Smiths were moved. If their descendants want to visit, they
without
>my diligence, and Reporting the new location to the Indiana room at the
>Library in New Albany, would not have had any idea where they went to. This
>is Pathetic. I checked 2 cemeteries, that I was told they had been moved
to.
>Finally I went to the Floyd Co. Circuit Court Clerk, from which Judge Cody
>had issued the Permit to Remove the Cemetery, and I found out the Court
order
>only grants permission, They have no Idea where the remains are Going. The
>Clerk directed me to the Attorneys office who obtained the Permit. They
were
>able to tell me where they had been moved, but not Who Oversaw the
>Disinterment. Or Reinternment.
> I went to the Cemetery, and the Superintendent showed me where they were
>Buried. There were 3 small holes in the ground, with 2 large stones on each
>end, and 5 small Marble tablets with a Slightly larger Hole for the 5.
>Whoopee, they even took pictures of the reburials. Also the person in
charge
>said a descendant for $1.00 gave permission for the removal. Why, with a
>Court order it' not necessary.
> To show the difference between Native American, and how our
ancestors
>are handled I for the first time in my life saw 5 Marble tablets for
markers
>about 2 or 3 inches apart. When I saw how they had been treated, I had
tears
>in my Eyes, and I don't mind saying it. It appears the only thing was to
>hurry and get it over with. Incidentally, a Back Hoe was used to recover
the
>Remains. No wonder they never recovered much. This was a Construction Job,
>not a Reburial. If the DHPA and the DNR want to really protect these
people,
>why don't they require Notification of their Department, and require
someone
>of authority, as opposed to the Project manager to oversee the Removal. He
>has probably only seen nice Burials where the dirt isn't even thrown on the
>Caskets until everyone leaves. How does he or his Operator know how to
>recover Human Remains Properly? As I have repeatedly stated, the Laws were
>passing now are better than nothing, but they, in my opinion are only
>appeasement Laws, and have no genuine protection at all. If I, being on
the
>INPCRP List can't help resolve this sordid state of affairs, then I may as
>well Unsubscribe, stop recording the Locations of Pioneer Cemeteries to
turn
>over to the DNR, and say to Hell with it and go back into retirement in
>Florida. If this E-Mail offends anyone, GOOD, I'll be proud of it! At
least
>the Smith Family has 1 person that feels for their plight, and now I know
>better than anyone else in Indiana just how much protection these Sites
have,
>and what kind of respect one person has for another. Same old story, If you
>have the Money, anything goes, to hell with the Law, it's already finished.
>Lets Move the Pioneer Cemeteries if Necessary, But let's do it with the
>Dignity that they are entitled to. Not hauled in a Pickup Truck.
> Jack E. Briles Sr.
> jb502000(a)aol.com
> Po Box 444
> New Albany, In. 47151-0444
> (812) 282-6585
>
>
>I hope this goes thru, I don't know what is wrong. It came back twice,
saying
>I was using html. But it's not on
> Jack
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
>Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
>
>