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A week or so ago, Susan Huber <shuber2(a)indy.tds.net> wrote asking whether,
under the new legislation, she is "allowed to probe for stones".
It just so happens that a little over a week ago I wrote to my contact in Rep.
Markt Lytle's office (Clinton McKay, his Legislative Assistant). Here's the
message I sent to Mr. McKay:
>How does this legislation affect those of us who must "disturb
>the ground" of a cemetery in order to do restoration work?
>Do we or will we need to get permission from the DNR or
>some other entity before we can start cleaning cemeteries
>on private property, clearing trees and vegetation, probing
>for and excavating buried stones and doing stone repairs?
>
>Obviously, I believe restoration work done on "Township
>property" should be done in conjunction with the Trustee's
>office. I presume his/her permission to do such work would
>be sufficient.
>
>Thank you for your time and your attention to this matter.
=================================
Here's the reply I received from Mr. McKay:
From: Clinton McKay <CMCKAY(a)iga.state.in.us>
To: <LoisMauk(a)usa.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: HB 1184 -- Protection of Pioneer Cemeteries
Dear Ms. Mauk:
Clint McKay here, I received your email and checked with LSA <"Legislative
Services Agency"> about your question. HB 1184 allows you to do everyhting
you are wanting to do in your message, without checking with the DNR or any
other entity first. As a matter of fact the legislation encourages it. Only
when you begin moving stones <or graves> or constructing new buildings on the
cemetery is the DNR's permission needed.
If you need anything else, let me know.
Jeanie:
I'm familiar with your Ryker Cemetery page at
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9562/rikercem.html . (It's been on
the INPCRP Hall of Shame for quite some time.) But, because your webpage
relates to only a single cemetery, it does not really fit into the parameters
of the links on the INPCRP County Selector page.
HOWEVER, I have a link on the County Selector page to Ruth Hoggatt's Jefferson
Co. cemeteries page at
http://www.seidata.com/~bhoggatt/ruth/ingenweb/jeff/cemetery.html . I notice
that, though Ruth has Ryker Cemetery on her list, there is no hyperlink to
your page about that specific cemetery.
Have you ever asked Ruth to add a link from her Jefferson Co. cemeteries page
to your Ryker Cemetery webpage? Why don't you drop Ruth a line at
bhoggatt(a)seidata.com and see if she would be willing to do that? The current
links on that page include off-site hyperlinks, so I don't imagine she has any
rule against them.
The worst she can say is "No", so I suggest you ask her.
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeanie Rhodes <jeanie-rhodes(a)usa.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [[INPCRP-L] Need County Cemetery Links]
> I have one little cemetery from Jefferson County here =>
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9562/index.html
>
> This is for the Riker/Ryker family cemetery.
>
> JLR
>
> Lois Mauk <loismauk(a)home.com> wrote:
>
> I had a brainstorm this evening and added a new column to the INPCRP
> County Selector page -- "Links to County Cemetery Pages (Non-INPCRP
> pages)".
>
Lois,
This may be a good time to remind our "listers" that they may want to
modify the subject line when they use the "reply" key.
Ernie
At 03:44 PM 1/22/00 -0500, Lois Mauk wrote:
>Well, folks, I figured out why I was confused. The prior message from Julie
>Moes came through AFTER Randy's message. Randy's message listed the Warrick
>County subject line, so I thought he was talking about a list of cemeteries
>*he* had done for Warrick County.
>
>It's all straightened out now. Sorry!
>
>Lois
>
>
Well, folks, I figured out why I was confused. The prior message from Julie
Moes came through AFTER Randy's message. Randy's message listed the Warrick
County subject line, so I thought he was talking about a list of cemeteries
*he* had done for Warrick County.
It's all straightened out now. Sorry!
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: Lois Mauk <LoisMauk(a)home.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP-L] Warrick County Cemetery Lists
> In the interest of trying to be "inclusive", for several counties I list
> multiple local cemetery resources (GenWeb, non-GenWeb, etc.).
>
> I have, however, switched the order of the two listings for Warrick Co. so
> yours in now first and the other is second.
>
> Lois
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randy Klemme <randyk(a)si-net.com>
> To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP-L] Warrick County Cemetery Lists
>
>
> > Lois....I checked you list...you have my list from the INGenWeb website
and
> > another listing that many if not most of the links do not work...
> >
> > Randy Klemme
> > Franklin County
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <EJMOES(a)aol.com>
> > To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 12:49 PM
> > Subject: [INPCRP-L] Warrick County Cemetery Lists
> >
> >
> > > http://www.angelfire.com/in/tamaraspage/index.html should lead you to
> > Tamara
> > > Kincaide's wonderful pages for Warrick County Indiana cemeteries. Julie
> > Moes
> > > EJMOES(a)aol.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of
> > > "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com
> > > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to
> LoisMauk(a)usa.net.
> >
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>
>
In the interest of trying to be "inclusive", for several counties I list
multiple local cemetery resources (GenWeb, non-GenWeb, etc.).
I have, however, switched the order of the two listings for Warrick Co. so
yours in now first and the other is second.
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Klemme <randyk(a)si-net.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP-L] Warrick County Cemetery Lists
> Lois....I checked you list...you have my list from the INGenWeb website and
> another listing that many if not most of the links do not work...
>
> Randy Klemme
> Franklin County
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <EJMOES(a)aol.com>
> To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 12:49 PM
> Subject: [INPCRP-L] Warrick County Cemetery Lists
>
>
> > http://www.angelfire.com/in/tamaraspage/index.html should lead you to
> Tamara
> > Kincaide's wonderful pages for Warrick County Indiana cemeteries. Julie
> Moes
> > EJMOES(a)aol.com
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of
> > "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com
> > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)
> >
> >
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to
LoisMauk(a)usa.net.
>
Lois....I checked you list...you have my list from the INGenWeb website and
another listing that many if not most of the links do not work...
Randy Klemme
Franklin County
----- Original Message -----
From: <EJMOES(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 12:49 PM
Subject: [INPCRP-L] Warrick County Cemetery Lists
> http://www.angelfire.com/in/tamaraspage/index.html should lead you to
Tamara
> Kincaide's wonderful pages for Warrick County Indiana cemeteries. Julie
Moes
> EJMOES(a)aol.com
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of
> "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com
> or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)
>
>
I have one little cemetery from Jefferson County here =>
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9562/index.html
This is for the Riker/Ryker family cemetery.
JLR
Lois Mauk <loismauk(a)home.com> wrote:
I had a brainstorm this evening and added a new column to the INPCRP
County Selector page -- "Links to County Cemetery Pages (Non-INPCRP
pages)".
____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
Lois,
These links have listings of cemeteries within
the counties of Pike and Dubois.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpike/Pikegen.htmhttp://www.rootsweb.com/~indubois/dubgen.htm
Joseph R. Gogel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk(a)home.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 1:19 AM
Subject: [INPCRP-L] Need County Cemetery Links
> Something you all may not realize is that I get TONS of e-mail queries
> from visitors to the INPCRP webpages asking me if So-and-So is buried in
> "somewhere in Indiana". Obviously, I have a little trouble answering
> questions like that! :-)
>
> I had a brainstorm this evening and added a new column to the INPCRP
> County Selector page -- "Links to County Cemetery Pages (Non-INPCRP
> pages)".
>
> I've spent the last several hours looking for webpages for Indiana
> counties that include at least an attempt to identify some/most/all of
> the cemeteries in a specific county.
>
> Most of Indiana's GenWeb pages have cemetery lists. I've been through
> the USGENWEB page down through the L's collecting links to specific
> cemetery lists pages. I'm going to pick back up with this tomorrow when
> I get some time, but wanted you to see this work-in-progress.
>
> Not all GenWeb pages have cemetery lists and not all cemetery lists are
> on GenWeb pages. That's where you guys come in.
>
> I'd appreciate your help in finding more of these links. Just send me
> URLs for webpages that list multiple cemeteries in Indiana counties.
> Preferably these webpages should include lists of all or most of the
> cemeteries in a county. Lists of burials in specific cemeteries are not
> necessary.
>
> By adding links to these pages, I hope to lead visitors to the INPCRP
> website to local resources that may be of use to them in their searches.
>
> If I'm not making myself clear (after all, it is 2:18 A.M.), go to the
> INPCRP County Selector page at
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/pcrpselector.html and click on a few of
> the fourth-column links you'll find there.
>
> I appreciate any help you can offer.
>
> Lois
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>
>
Lois,
I do look-ups and also have a list of all Henry county cemeteries on my web
page. Here is the URL to the cemetery list, with music 'Amazing Grace'
http://members.tripod.com/hcgs/page1.html
UEB
----- Original Message -----
From: Lois Mauk <loismauk(a)home.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 2:19 AM
Subject: [INPCRP-L] Need County Cemetery Links
> Something you all may not realize is that I get TONS of e-mail queries
> from visitors to the INPCRP webpages asking me if So-and-So is buried in
> "somewhere in Indiana". Obviously, I have a little trouble answering
> questions like that! :-)
>
> I had a brainstorm this evening and added a new column to the INPCRP
> County Selector page -- "Links to County Cemetery Pages (Non-INPCRP
> pages)".
>
> I've spent the last several hours looking for webpages for Indiana
> counties that include at least an attempt to identify some/most/all of
> the cemeteries in a specific county.
>
> Most of Indiana's GenWeb pages have cemetery lists. I've been through
> the USGENWEB page down through the L's collecting links to specific
> cemetery lists pages. I'm going to pick back up with this tomorrow when
> I get some time, but wanted you to see this work-in-progress.
>
> Not all GenWeb pages have cemetery lists and not all cemetery lists are
> on GenWeb pages. That's where you guys come in.
>
> I'd appreciate your help in finding more of these links. Just send me
> URLs for webpages that list multiple cemeteries in Indiana counties.
> Preferably these webpages should include lists of all or most of the
> cemeteries in a county. Lists of burials in specific cemeteries are not
> necessary.
>
> By adding links to these pages, I hope to lead visitors to the INPCRP
> website to local resources that may be of use to them in their searches.
>
> If I'm not making myself clear (after all, it is 2:18 A.M.), go to the
> INPCRP County Selector page at
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/pcrpselector.html and click on a few of
> the fourth-column links you'll find there.
>
> I appreciate any help you can offer.
>
> Lois
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>
>
Lois, you have my Washington County, Link, but here is another on that I am
currently working on for Vigo County.
http://www.vigo.lib.in.us/cemetery/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Lois Mauk <loismauk(a)home.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 2:19 AM
Subject: [INPCRP-L] Need County Cemetery Links
> Something you all may not realize is that I get TONS of e-mail queries
> from visitors to the INPCRP webpages asking me if So-and-So is buried in
> "somewhere in Indiana". Obviously, I have a little trouble answering
> questions like that! :-)
>
> I had a brainstorm this evening and added a new column to the INPCRP
> County Selector page -- "Links to County Cemetery Pages (Non-INPCRP
> pages)".
>
> I've spent the last several hours looking for webpages for Indiana
> counties that include at least an attempt to identify some/most/all of
> the cemeteries in a specific county.
>
> Most of Indiana's GenWeb pages have cemetery lists. I've been through
> the USGENWEB page down through the L's collecting links to specific
> cemetery lists pages. I'm going to pick back up with this tomorrow when
> I get some time, but wanted you to see this work-in-progress.
>
> Not all GenWeb pages have cemetery lists and not all cemetery lists are
> on GenWeb pages. That's where you guys come in.
>
> I'd appreciate your help in finding more of these links. Just send me
> URLs for webpages that list multiple cemeteries in Indiana counties.
> Preferably these webpages should include lists of all or most of the
> cemeteries in a county. Lists of burials in specific cemeteries are not
> necessary.
>
> By adding links to these pages, I hope to lead visitors to the INPCRP
> website to local resources that may be of use to them in their searches.
>
> If I'm not making myself clear (after all, it is 2:18 A.M.), go to the
> INPCRP County Selector page at
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/pcrpselector.html and click on a few of
> the fourth-column links you'll find there.
>
> I appreciate any help you can offer.
>
> Lois
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>
>
Something you all may not realize is that I get TONS of e-mail queries
from visitors to the INPCRP webpages asking me if So-and-So is buried in
"somewhere in Indiana". Obviously, I have a little trouble answering
questions like that! :-)
I had a brainstorm this evening and added a new column to the INPCRP
County Selector page -- "Links to County Cemetery Pages (Non-INPCRP
pages)".
I've spent the last several hours looking for webpages for Indiana
counties that include at least an attempt to identify some/most/all of
the cemeteries in a specific county.
Most of Indiana's GenWeb pages have cemetery lists. I've been through
the USGENWEB page down through the L's collecting links to specific
cemetery lists pages. I'm going to pick back up with this tomorrow when
I get some time, but wanted you to see this work-in-progress.
Not all GenWeb pages have cemetery lists and not all cemetery lists are
on GenWeb pages. That's where you guys come in.
I'd appreciate your help in finding more of these links. Just send me
URLs for webpages that list multiple cemeteries in Indiana counties.
Preferably these webpages should include lists of all or most of the
cemeteries in a county. Lists of burials in specific cemeteries are not
necessary.
By adding links to these pages, I hope to lead visitors to the INPCRP
website to local resources that may be of use to them in their searches.
If I'm not making myself clear (after all, it is 2:18 A.M.), go to the
INPCRP County Selector page at
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/pcrpselector.html and click on a few of
the fourth-column links you'll find there.
I appreciate any help you can offer.
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Mahan
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 10:26 PM
Subject: Fw: [CLENDINEN] How to find abandoned cemetery?
----- Original Message -----
Subject: [CLENDINEN] How to find abandoned cemetery?
This was a tip I got.. thought it was interesting! Cyndy
******************************************
FINDING A LOST CEMETERY
A comment many people make in regard to locating cemeteries is, "I
know the cemetery is out there somewhere in the general vicinity, but
I can't find it."
When looking for old, abandoned cemeteries that are no longer on a
map, one of the best ways to recognize them is to look for trees on a
slight rise or hill, or a stand of trees that looks out of place in
the middle of a field. People often planted fir trees around the
perimeters, or at the entrance, of cemeteries.
Roads often changed direction (especially if the cemetery was a
"typhoid" or epidemic cemetery), and farmers tended to plow around the
cemeteries, making them difficult to get to. The trees, however, out
in the middle of nowhere, usually give them away!
==== CLENDINEN Mailing List ====
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~clendin Best little URL in town!
Lois and others....
Tuesday is "County Government Day at the Legislature". Many County officials
will be in Indianapolis on Monday afternoon/evening as well as Tuesday. The
purpose of this day is for county officials to meet one on one with their
legislators and discuss pending legislation affecting counties. My point to
this is if any of you have discussed the topic of cemetery preservation to
any of your county officials, call them and see if they plan on attending Co.
Government Day. If they do, have them also bring up this legislation.
Better yet, if they're going down Monday afternoon, have them attend this
hearing.
One question: Is the location for this committee hearing the same or will it
be held in a different location?
I'm glad I didn't stick around and wait for this committee hearing...I'd have
been stranded there for a day or so...but I'm planning on being in Indy
Monday afternoon and will hopefully attend the next one.
Kyle D. Conrad, Clerk
Newton Circuit Court
Hello group! Sorry you have'nt heard from me lately I have torn up my arms doing this important task. I am working on a small family plot here in Putnam County. It is in pretty bad shape and this weather has a halt on everything. I have a question, with this new law am I still allowed to probe for stones. I need to know if I am restoring using the proper steps also. The name of the cemetery my 12 yr. old and I are currently working on is STRINGER-KEATH.
Thank You,
Susan Huber
Cheryl tried to post this message to the group, but it didn't post
because of a problem with her return address. I've taken care of that
problem so it won't happen again and I've forwarded her message below.
If you want to respond, send it either to the INPCRP group at
INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com or write to Cheryl directly at the address below.
Lois
=============
Subject: HB 1184 Natural Resources Committee Hearing
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:58:38 EST
From: "Cheryl Ann Munson" <cheryl_ann_munson(a)hotmail.com>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
I went to the House Natural Resources Committee hearing on the bill, and
which was to convene about 3:30 p.m., or upon adjournment of the House
session. Well, the House did not adjourn until late and the hearing was
postponed until Monday, Jan 24, same time, same scheduling arrangement.
While waiting for the hearing to convene, I happened to meet two
lobbyists for the Indiana Farm Bureau. Since I raised the issue of
farming impacts to cemeteries and burial grounds in my recommendations
to the Committee, I asked these gentlemen if the Farm Bureau would have
any concerns. They were definite that they did not. They were quite
agreeable that protecting cemeteries from land clearing and agricultural
damage was worthwhile.
FYI -- In years past, the Farm Bureau had no problems with other laws
that have been enacted concerning cemeteries and historic preservation.
And when asked pointedly by legislators their lobbyist would state very
definitely, "no problem at all."
>From my surveys, it seems that 99% of our farmers are respectful to cemeteries (if they know about them), but we absolutely need a way to deal with the small proportion of "bad apples" who will plow or doze through cememteries or let their livestock cause damage. There was much testimony about this last year, so I'm puzzled why HB 1184, as initially drafted, was limited to developers and excluded destruction caused by agricultural pursuits.
Hopefully, we can get the sponsor and Committee to add amendments to
cover farming impacts and notification of farmers. The sponsor is the
key person, of course.
I will try to be at the hearing on Monday the 24th to make a case, but I
hope others of you would be interested in this matter too, and write to
the Sponsor, Committee, and your Representative, to let them know what
you think, especially if you can't come to the hearing. Hopefully we
won't have to drive through snow again!
Cheryl
___________________________
Cheryl Ann Munson
Office: Archaeology, Rm. 190
2611 East 10th Street
Indiana University
Bloomington, IN 47405 B
Phone: (812) 855-0528
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
A few days ago Nancy asked the list about the whereabouts of the Shiloh
Cemetery in Montgomery Co. I asked if she wanted the address for a
Crawfordsville library researcher who might be able to help her. I have
trashed her original message or I would have emailed her directly.
Sorry for the confusion.
Sharon Mills
At 02:54 PM 01/20/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>I do not understand who this Nancy is your talking about. Margaret
>Nowling Wells
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living?
>
>
>
I apologize for sending this to the list, but I have apparently "trashed"
Nancy's message with her email address. Nancy was interested in knowing
who in Montgomery Co might be able to help her find the Shiloh cemetery
based on information available at the Crawfordsville library.
That person is Dellie Craig, whose address is 406 Vamdalia Ct,
Crawfordsville IN 47933. She will charge a reasonable fee for her research
and is available some days at the library.
Of more importance to the list, Dellie is the most accessible person in
Montgomery Co who knows the township trustees, old residents and other
persons to contact in locating cemeteries that might not now be visible.
She was invaluable to me in sending me to the right people, who were able
to point out the physical boundaries of a cemetery with buried headstones.
Hopefully, there will be "Dellies" in other counties. Check with your
county geneological or historical society.
Sharon Mills
Nancy,
The DAR read and listed all known cemeteries in Montgomery Co some time in
the past 40 years, don't have a date. Those booklets are found at the
Crawfordsville library. There is a researcher there, Dellie Craig, who
would check this for you at a reasonable rate. I have her address in my
paper files, let me know if you want it.
I can tell you that they read the cemeteries that they *knew about* and
could see. They missed at least one, the Redenbaugh Cemetery at the corner
of the New Market Road and highway 231.
Another approach for you would be to contact Karen Zach, who has the
Montgomery Co GenWeb page.
Sharon Mills
At 06:03 PM 01/19/2000 EST, you wrote:
>Have you ever heard of Shiloh Cemetary near Crawfordsville Indiana? Where is
>it located? Thanks, Nancy
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
>Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
>
>
>
Lois:
I was in Indy as planned, but left immediately after my other meeting due to
the snow storm we received here in northern Indiana. I'm glad I did, 35-40
mph all the way home and 7 inches of snow!
As I had mentioned to you last week, I'm in favor of all efforts to save our
cemeteries from any and all types of destruction, whether it be vandalism or
commercialism, as well as neglect. That is why I'm still not convinced
having the DNR involved is good policy. I realize they play an important
role in studying historic burial grounds, but all that is to me is legal
desecration. I feel they could play an important role in identifying the
area, determining it is a burial location, and researching to see when it was
used without disturbing the final resting places of our ancestors. But, if
we are to accomplish anything, we must be willing to compromise, and I have a
feeling this is where it will come into play. These are strictly my
feelings, and I encourage others to join in the discussion and offer other
ideas for our consideration.
Kyle D. Conrad, Clerk
Newton Circuit Court