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--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: "DON HUFFMAN" <crfordy(a)thegrid.net>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [INPCRP-L] Re: Cemetery Upkeep
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:26:59 -0800
Message-ID: <01be221f$f1571820$8711a2d1@kfvtjuml>
I wanted to pass on that I work for the CA state prison system. The
prisons in our area regularly provide major improvements and
restoration for our local cemeteries. They are done by a work crew
with the supervision of a correctional officer.
Intrested public agencies only need to submit a request and they are
put on a waiting list. These same crews maintain our parks ,roadways,
school grounds, and airport.
These crews bring their own hand tools and are transported by bus to
the sites.
I don't know where the prisons in IN are located but I would ssume
that county inmates could provide the same type of labor if
requseted. It may be worth a try to contact the local Sheriff or
County correctional facility.
My Pioneer Family Cemeteries are in Parke County IN. I live in
Susanville, California
Don Huffman
crfordy(a)thegrid.net
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.
--------- End forwarded message ----------
I wanted to pass on that I work for the CA state prison system. The
prisons in our area regularly provide major improvements and
restoration for our local cemeteries. They are done by a work crew
with the supervision of a correctional officer.
Intrested public agencies only need to submit a request and they are
put on a waiting list. These same crews maintain our parks ,roadways,
school grounds, and airport.
These crews bring their own hand tools and are transported by bus to
the sites.
I don't know where the prisons in IN are located but I would ssume
that county inmates could provide the same type of labor if
requseted. It may be worth a try to contact the local Sheriff or
County correctional facility.
My Pioneer Family Cemeteries are in Parke County IN. I live in
Susanville, California
Don Huffman
crfordy(a)thegrid.net
This note was sent out sometime ago. Do you agree with any of it ???
There are a couple changes I would like to add. AS of yet I have not
heard any reply one way or the other.
I gave this to Rep. Cleo Duncan , She seemed to agree with it . The
meeting was about Nov. 12 in Greensburg.
This problem isn't just in Indiana, but in all other states, so we need
support from other places.
SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR CHANGES IN THE LAW REGARDING OLD CEMETERIES
and the township trustees are in violation of their offices according to
Indiana Law (page 792 (chapter 67)= 23-14-68-2 & (kill 23-14-68-1-(B))
stating that they must seek out All old cemeteries and restore, fence and
maintain them.
WHY won't the County Commissioners appoint Cemetery Commissioners as
per state law IC 23-14-67-2 ? Is it because the township trustees resent
the appointments? The trustees have enough to do without having to take
care of the old cemeteries!
(1:) 23-14-67-2 = Change the word may to shall or will and appoint
enough cemetery commissioners so that NO Cemetery Commissioner will have
more than 2 (max.) townships in any county.
(2:) There must be a question added on the tax assessment form asking if
there is a cemetery on the property. By doing this, we can get a record
of
all cemeteries in the state that have fallen through the cracks and
locate
them on all our county and state maps and record them in the Recorders
Office. The property owner should get a tax break for the cemetery and
for an easement to the cemetery, or the property owner could be
offered a tax break for the donation of the cemetery to the
township or county under state law (23-14-69-4), thereby protecting the
cemetery for future generations.
(3:) The word may in IC 23-14-69-4 must be changed to shall or Will.
A Trustee shall accept the donation of an old cemetery so the cemetery
can
be protected for future generations. The property owner must be given an
incentive to donate the cemetery to the county.
(4:) We must have an easement in order to restore and maintain the
cemeteries and for people to visit their relatives graves.
(5:) There must be a stiff sentences for anyone, even property
owners, that
destroys or vandalizing a cemetery. They must restore at their own
expense
or serve jail time of 5yrs.
(6:) There should be a review board that meets at least 4 times a year.
This board should be made up of 4 State Representatives, 4 State
Senators,
2 DNR, 2 Veterans Administration, 2 Historical and 4 Private Citizens
The BOY SCOUTS are a resource to help restore and maintain these
old
cemeteries, because they are required to perform some civic service
before
they can advance in rank, also people that are on welfare and out of a
job,
for a fee per cemetery. County Court Judgments that require public
service, as part of a sentence.
Im sure there many more things that need to be added, but this
would
be a big start.
I have been on radio (WTRE Greensburg, WKRP North Vernon) & TV
Stations(TV-8 Indianapolis Ind. & TV-3 Louisville Ky). and the Greensburg
Daily News of Greensburg Ind and will be in the news paper, The Republic
of
Columbus Ind for the memorial day addition 5/24/92 AND the STARS &
STRIPES,
Indianapolis Star, papers in Gary, Cincinnati, Charleston Ind. and A.P..
There will be other news papers also. The news media has helped. We are
getting more support from all over the state and I have heard from people
outside this state because of the media. We need your help. I (WE) hope
you
will help bring this to the attention of the congress and public and help
get their support.
We had the meeting about the middle of November. Now is the time for
others to help. We have been carrying the load to get laws passed. I'm
getting tired.!!!
Ellyn:
An exemption from taxation is, as I understand it, already available. I
believe, though, that the property owner should have to "deed out" the
cemetery tract, which would conversely mean that the site would fall into
the responsibility of the Trustee.
Can someone research this point for us?
Lois
At 01:30 PM 12/5/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>It has occurred to me that if we wish to take away for the sake of the
>cemeteries the "property rights" of a land owner, we might suggest that the
>law exempt the portion of their property that is the cemetery from property
>taxes. This surely couldn't affect the revenues very much.
>
>Ellyn
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
>Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
>
>
Ellyn
My wife had the same suggestion. I wonder what the legal implications of
that would be!
Art
-----Original Message-----
From: Ellyn Kern <ekern(a)venus.net>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 1:30 PM
Subject: [INPCRP-L] Re: INPCRP-D Digest V98 #111
>It has occurred to me that if we wish to take away for the sake of the
>cemeteries the "property rights" of a land owner, we might suggest that the
>law exempt the portion of their property that is the cemetery from property
>taxes. This surely couldn't affect the revenues very much.
>
>Ellyn
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
>Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
>
>
It has occurred to me that if we wish to take away for the sake of the
cemeteries the "property rights" of a land owner, we might suggest that the
law exempt the portion of their property that is the cemetery from property
taxes. This surely couldn't affect the revenues very much.
Ellyn
Randy:
Just use the LoisMauk(a)usa.net address. That's the one I put on the
Petitions. It's a LOT shorter and easier to type. It is just a forwarding
address that I use (provided for free by NetAddress
<http://www.netaddress.com>) and they instantly forward messages to me at my
"real" address on Worldnet. The best thing is that if you change ISPs, you
don't have to do a bunch of address changes; just tell NetAddress the new
address and they forward it there. Cool, huh?
Lois
At 11:07 PM 12/4/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>I made the changes on my website. Also anyone with a website needs to
>change the state coordinator in the text. Lois, what e-mail address should
>we use for the public to reach you?
>
>Randy Klemme
>Franklin County
The Indiana Pioneer Cemetery Restoration Project (INPCRP) needs your help to
collect signatures on a Petition to persuade the Indiana General Assembly to
DO SOMETHING to protect the hundreds (I suspect thousands) of pioneer
cemeteries scattered throughout the state.
The General Assembly will be reconvening soon and we need to collect as many
petition signatures as possible, as quickly as possible, from both inside
and outside the state.
We've discussed here before the pathetic state of Indiana law in this regard
and that fact that, in certain circumstances, it is LEGAL (though
unquestionably morally and ethically reprehensible) to neglect, abuse and
even destroy "abandoned and neglected" pioneer cemeteries.
Most of you will remember the situation here in Clark County, Indiana where
we confirmed that, since 1970, a property owner had PAVED three-fourths of a
pioneer cemetery to construct a parking lot for a strip shopping center and
that, incredible as it may seem, it was all perfectly LEGAL because the
property owner had been paying taxes on the property for many years.
The INPCRP is asking for your assistance in circulating and collecting
signatures on a Petition we have drafted for the Indiana Legislature calling
for revision of current state laws regarding protection and maintenance of
pioneer cemeteries. The Petition, current Indiana statutes regarding
cemeteries and instructions for returning the signed Petitions before
12/31/98 can be found at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/Petition.PDF
IMPORTANT NOTE:
---------------
You will need free Adobe Acrobat Reader software to view and print
the Petition (see http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html).
The software costs nothing and I believe you will find it valuable to have
the program on your system in the future as it is in very widespread use
throughout the Internet.
All you have to do is install the Adobe Acrobat Reader software on your
system, access the Petition.PDF file at the URL listed above and print out
the Petition. Then make as many copies as you need, collect signatures from
your family, friends and acquaintances. When the signatures are returned to
us, we will personally deliver them to a "sympathetic" Legislator to prove
the level of fervent interest in this subject.
We are seeking signatures of people from both inside and OUTSIDE the State
of Indiana. While there is no question that the Legislators will be more
significantly swayed by a strong showing of interest from potential Indiana
VOTERS, we also want to show them the level of interest from OUTSIDE the State.
If you have questions, I'll try to answer them. Further information on the
Indiana Pioneer Cemetery Restoration Project can be found its brand new home
on Rootsweb at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp
We just moved the site to Rootsweb tonight, so please bear with us while we
get situated in our new home.
Thank you.
Lois Mauk
INPCRP State Coordinator
I made the changes on my website. Also anyone with a website needs to
change the state coordinator in the text. Lois, what e-mail address should
we use for the public to reach you?
Randy Klemme
Franklin County
-----Original Message-----
From: Lois Mauk <LawOfficeInformationSystem(a)worldnet.att.net>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:38 PM
Subject: [INPCRP-L] >> INPCRP website now on ROOTSWEB <<
>I finally got some time to transfer the INPCRP webpages to Rootsweb.
YEAH!!!
>
>The new website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/
>
>I'm hoping Scott will put a "Sorry, we've moved" on the old page so that
>visitors can be directed to our new home on Rootsweb. It's be a shame for
>them to get lost at this juncture.
>
>I've also changed the PDF file (which can now be found at
>http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/Petition.PDF) to reflect the new URL for
the
>INPCRP website.
>
>If you've previously downloaded the Petition.PDF file from my Geocities
>website, you might want to get it again so it will include our new address
>on Rootsweb.
>
>I've only made rudimentary changes to the pages on Rootsweb and will need a
>couple of days to get all the e-mail and website links working properly.
>Check out the site and let me know if you find any broken links, etc.
>
>I'd really appreciate it if you guys could start watching for links to the
>INPCRP website on other sites and contacting the webmasters of those sites
>to alert them to the URL change.
>
>I've got a LOT to do tonight so I'll cut this short. I'm posting a message
>to INDIANA Roots about the Petition tonight and will send a copy to the
>INPCRP group. I'd like to ask that you, in turn, forward the message to
>e-mail groups that you belong to and individuals you know to point them to
>the Petition.PDF file.
>
>Later.
>
>Lois
>
>BTW, for those of you who DO NOT have Internet access, you might want to
get
>someone to download the necessary software for you from
>http://www.netzero.com, where you will find they offer FREE INTERNET
ACCESS.
>It's kind of along the same lines as Juno e-mail, no cost, but you have to
>put up with advertising. Might be a good deal for some of you on limited
>budgets. Maybe you could install one of those for-fee trial deals that we
>always get in the mail and keep it long enough to download NetZero and get
>that up and running. My husband's been using NetZero for a couple of weeks
>now and he really likes it!
>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>Please do not send querries through this list.
>
>
I know Charles Moore has been working with Rep. Cleo Duncan on this
situation. Charles, do you think she's the person we should concentrate on?
I know you've spent some time with her recently. What do you think?
Lois
At 05:11 PM 12/4/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>Would it not be a good idea to see if we can be finding that "sympathetic
>legislator" while working on the petitions? Has anyone been discussing the
>subject with their representatives?
I finally got some time to transfer the INPCRP webpages to Rootsweb. YEAH!!!
The new website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/
I'm hoping Scott will put a "Sorry, we've moved" on the old page so that
visitors can be directed to our new home on Rootsweb. It's be a shame for
them to get lost at this juncture.
I've also changed the PDF file (which can now be found at
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/Petition.PDF) to reflect the new URL for the
INPCRP website.
If you've previously downloaded the Petition.PDF file from my Geocities
website, you might want to get it again so it will include our new address
on Rootsweb.
I've only made rudimentary changes to the pages on Rootsweb and will need a
couple of days to get all the e-mail and website links working properly.
Check out the site and let me know if you find any broken links, etc.
I'd really appreciate it if you guys could start watching for links to the
INPCRP website on other sites and contacting the webmasters of those sites
to alert them to the URL change.
I've got a LOT to do tonight so I'll cut this short. I'm posting a message
to INDIANA Roots about the Petition tonight and will send a copy to the
INPCRP group. I'd like to ask that you, in turn, forward the message to
e-mail groups that you belong to and individuals you know to point them to
the Petition.PDF file.
Later.
Lois
BTW, for those of you who DO NOT have Internet access, you might want to get
someone to download the necessary software for you from
http://www.netzero.com, where you will find they offer FREE INTERNET ACCESS.
It's kind of along the same lines as Juno e-mail, no cost, but you have to
put up with advertising. Might be a good deal for some of you on limited
budgets. Maybe you could install one of those for-fee trial deals that we
always get in the mail and keep it long enough to download NetZero and get
that up and running. My husband's been using NetZero for a couple of weeks
now and he really likes it!
Would it not be a good idea to see if we can be finding that "sympathetic
legislator" while working on the petitions? Has anyone been discussing the
subject with their representatives?
I also am part of an ongoing cemetery association. We are finding that it is
difficult to find money for restoration efforts. Burials may only be two or
three a year to bring in new money. Fortunately we do have some funds on
which to receive interest. We found we are not eligible to particapate in a
community foundation. Started looking for grant money last spring and as yet
haven't found any resources we could tap. Because we have some funds we
aren't eligible for the township trustee "care" although we have received
some fill or gravel a time or two. Has anyone else had any experiences in
this area?
Ellyn
I live in Kansas. I have many many family members buried in
Dearborn, Ripley, Ohio and Putnam counties of Indiana. I
would love to make sure that the cemeteries they are buried
in will always be there for us to pay our respect and to
honor them. I think if the people let it be known that they
have family members buried in Indiana and they are concerned
that it might put more bite in the petition.
Barb Boese
I just think it would be more convincing to state legislators if the people
that signed the petition would have a verifiable Indiana residence....their
CONSTITUENTS...
Randy Klemme
Franklin County
-----Original Message-----
From: Lois Mauk <LawOfficeInformationSystem(a)worldnet.att.net>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP-L] PETITION
>Randy asked me if we need to limit the Petition to just Indiana residents.
>
>In answer to his question, I don't know. What do YOU think? Personally,
>I'd just as soon open it up to EVERYBODY. The more the merrier.
>
>Your thoughts?
>
>Lois
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>This Can't be my family tree, I'm a peach and its full of nuts!
>
>
Randy asked me if we need to limit the Petition to just Indiana residents.
In answer to his question, I don't know. What do YOU think? Personally,
I'd just as soon open it up to EVERYBODY. The more the merrier.
Your thoughts?
Lois
For any of you on Juno or otherwise unable to access the Petition in Adobe
Acrobat PDF format via the Internet, drop me a line and I'll e-mail you the
text in a message so you'll have a chance to look at it too.
However, if you want to distribute copies of the Petition and collect
signatures, I'd really prefer that you see if you can print out a copy via a
library Internet access or a friend so you'll have the exact same document
that the rest of us will be distributing.
As a last resort, I can mail you a copy which you can photocopy and
distribute but, remember, the postage will have to come out of my own
pockets so I don't want to do a huge mailing.
The only thing required to view the Petition in PDF format is to download
and install the free Adobe Acrobat software from:
http://www.adobe.com
or
http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html
Lois
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Help us to distribute the Indiana Pioneer Cemetery Restoration Project
PETITION TO THE INDIANA LEGISLATURE calling for revision of current
state laws regarding protection and maintenance of pioneer cemeteries:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/5881/Petition.PDF
You'll need free Adobe Acrobat software to view and print the Petition
(see http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I've made some small changes to the PETITION, which you can find in
Adobe Acrobat PDF format at:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/5881/Petition.PDF
If you all think it's ready to start distributing, let me know. If you
think changes need still to be made, let me know that too.
As soon as a get a go-ahead from members of this group, we can start
announcing it to the various e-mail groups, our friends and
acquaintances.
I'd REALLY like to see us hype this real big, collect as many signatures
as we can between now and Christmas and collect them by New Years so we
can plop them in the lap of a sympathetic legislator.
Your thoughts?
Lois
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Clark County, Indiana Cemeteries Page:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/5881
Next CCCPC Meeting: Saturday, 12-05-98, Borden Library, 2:00 PM
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bicentennial History of Silver Creek/Stony Point Church:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/5881/book.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheila has raised some excellent points. I too think "may" and "shall" are
useless. That's why I used the word "COMPEL" in the Petition draft. That's
pretty straightforward, don't you think?.
I don't believe, however, that the phrase "county cemeteries" is used in
either the Petition or in the relevant statutes. The phrase "county
cemetery commissions" is used, however. There are, of course, situations in
which the Counties actually own property on which a cemetery is located, but
those are somewhat rare.
A reading of the pertinent statutes reveals to me that the Township
Trustees' responsibilities are to "maintain" cemeteries (straightening and
resetting stones, levelling and reseeding the ground, building and repairing
fences, removing noxious and detrimental vegetation) while the County
Cemetery Commissions are intended to do "restoration" work -- a whole
different kettle of fish.
It's kind of like the difference between dusting the furniture and
refinishing it.
Lois
Lois, (and all others concerned about our Pioneer Cemeteries)
I would like to point out a few things to you. Wording is crucial in
whatever you decide to submit to the legislature. And when you get it done,
you want to make sure the lawmakers don't change the wording as they always
do to fit their needs. The words "may" and "shall" are useless. Either one
gives permission to not do anything. A better word to use is "will". They
will maintain - they will establish a fund - the commissioners or trustee's
WILL.
Another thing about wording is the term "county cemeteries". Do you all
realize that there is only one "county cemetery" - the Poor Farm. Slick
lawyers can twist this term and say only one cemetery in the county is
provided for in the law. Or they can say this only applies to cemeteries in
the county not the ones in the cities or towns. Better terms to use are -
"every cemetery or lone grave, be it on private property, or owned by the
county, or under care of churches, or individual groups, etc. in every
county, city or town". This would provide for all of them, be it the single
grave, the abandoned, the neglected, and also the cemeteries that have funds
for their care. I have seen desecration in the last ones mentioned also.
They all deserve our protection.
I have, in my county, one township that is set up with the means to care
for their cemeteries. This particular township only has 3 known cemeteries
in it. One is almost totally destroyed, one is well on the way to total
destruction and the 3rd is still being used. The funds for this township is
used to care for the one still being used. I might add they do a terrific
job on that one cemetery. The other two are mowed and that is it. Stones
that are down, are mowed over. I will say one thing there are no bushes or
briars in the other two, they mow everything down. But real care, resetting
stones, repairing fences, trimming is only done in the one being currently
used. But these people think they are doing a terrific job.
Another good example of poor use of wording is cemeteries not owned by
the townships or counties. If they are on private property it is not their
responsibility. This is not right! They are cemeteries and also should be
provided for by funds, public or private, and laws need to be in place to
make sure it is done.
Since Amy is an attorney she should be able to eliminate words that can
be misused, and replace them with words or terms that can't be.
Sheila D. Watson/Grant County US GenWeb Coord.
Ellyn, glad you caught the sofa fire in time to prevent further damage. My,
that must have been harrowing.
Ellyn raised several excellent points and asked a couple of good questions.
She is correct in that I expect people to download the Petition (preferably
in the PDF format to control the layout), make copies and collect
signatures. Those can then be forwarded to us via the CCCPC post office box
and delivered to a friendly legislator.
Does that make sense?
I also believe we need to start moving on this right away. The Petition is
still in "draft" stage. I appreciate all the encouraging words I've
received thus far and, unless someone points out some horrendous omission, I
guess it's good enough to start distribution.
I fear that the situation she relates re the cemetery commission in
Switzerland Co. is pretty common. We've had one in Clark Co. since 1992,
but the County Council has flatly refused to fund the first DIME. Guess
what? The Commission has accomplished ZIP. That's why we started the Clark
County Cemetery Preservation Committee.
Gotta head off to work. I'll check in again later today.
Lois
At 07:26 AM 12/3/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>Lois: Don't despair too quickly. Your question deserved some thought. (My
>excuse is that my activities were interrupted by a smoldering sofa fire
>adjacent to my office--putting it out with no further fire damage, Thank
>God--and the fact that the odor in my office keeps me out awhile.)
>
<<SNIP>>