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Hello all listers Sorry to be a pain, Can some-one please give me some advise !!!!!, Over the past 5 or so years I have been researching my F/TREE in India Calcutta Madras Meerut to name a few, However you will observe I have 2 F/tree names WILTON's & KING's I have had some success with both names, Alas I have hit a Brick Wall concerning my G/Mother Margaret Wilton-King (nee Bennett) (Marshall) (Prosser) marriage's 3 in total, N01 in Burma she married my the G/Dad Bertram King, 1912 No 2 In Calcutta she married a Robert Marshall 1920 No 3 Calcutta she married a Thomas Cecil Prosser 1929, My dilemma is I have found all there is about Bertram King & Thomas Prosser, But Robert Marshall appears to be a some what a Scarlett Pimpernel, Interestingly, all 3 were connected to the Merchant Navy ( it would appear my G/Mum had an eye for the sailor boys) I found out by chance that My G/Ms second Marriage was a complete surprise to the remaining members of my Family who were in India, There are no records of this marriage, in the Family apart from the Marriage/Cert in India, I have spent well over 5 years attempting to find Robert Marshall, As this marriage could have resulted in children being born !!!!!!, Believe me I have searched all Merchant Navy & Maritime records, I have been to the British Library 3 times , all deaths at sea etc etc, As on my G/Ms 3rd M/Cert it states she was a Widow for the second Time, So from 1920-1929 I assumed he must have died, But as I state I can Not Find any record of this man any where, Ancestry Find My Past you name it I have come up empty handed,
I hope some kind soul can advise me Thank You B.Wilton-King
I have a Robert william WIlcox that I would like info on. The only thing I know is... Robert William Wilcox died in 1902 aged 22 in Rangoon. His father was William Wilcox of the Gaekwar Infantry Brigade.
Seeing that all the family was in Baroda at the time I was wondering why he would be in Rangoon. Is there any records that would tell me why he died or what he died of?
Wilcox in Baroda, Bombay and Madras
Freeman and Robinson in Madras
I was recently reading the Madras Courier from 1791. It is a small paper, with, at most, 5 pages typically. Much is telling the tales of the British Empire and its disputes. Long about June, however, there seem to be letters related to the cultivation of mulberry trees; written by and to Dr James Anderson. Dr. Anderson seems to have been a local physician. He is not in my family but was there about the same time. He seems to really have been interested in raising silk worms, rather than just trees.
I am wondering if anyone knows more about this activity and about Dr. Anderson. My copy of the Courier is, sadly, barely legible, so it is hard for me to discern the full extent of the efforts. It sounds like they were writing about some experiments to raise the worms; perhaps to see if India was suitable for the silk industry.
Ed of Falcon
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Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:17:24 +1000
From: Ian <imacdonn(a)bigpond.net.au <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> >
Subject: [INDIA] EURASIAN WIVES allowance ...................
To: <india(a)rootsweb.com <mailto:email@example.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
OK, THANKS... I WILL ASK A PAID BL INDIA OFFICE PRIVATE RESEARCHER TO SEE IF
THERE ARE ANY SURVIVING PAYMASTER RECORDS FOR 'WIVES ALLOWANCE'FOR
POONA,1826-35 (AND OTHER QUESTIONS - MAYBE I'LL JOIN FIBIS!).
THE BOOK ONLY HAS FN'S RELATING TO THE MIL LETTERS/PAPERS INITIATING THE
ALLOWANCE IN 1825, ETC - NOT ANY PAYMENT RECORDS.
Maureen and List
It may well be that there are some contractual arrangements between the
BL and Familysearch regarding access to digitised microfilms which has
meant a change of how we the punters now view the films.
On 17/07/2018 6:03 PM, india-request(a)rootsweb.com wrote:
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> (Maureen Evers)
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:05:55 +1000
> From: Maureen Evers <maureen.evers(a)bigpond.com>
> Subject: [INDIA] FamilySearch digitised microfilms and Affiliate
> To: "india(a)rootsweb.com" <INDIA(a)rootsweb.com>
> Message-ID: <FF5D92A1-5AD6-4310-BAC4-E5E382D057D8(a)bigpond.com>
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> Hello List
> Many family search microfilms, and digitised microfilms, are copies of records which are relevant for India research, from the British Library India Office collection.
> The digitised microfilms of the British Library India Office records could until recently be viewed at a FamilySearch Family History Centre, or at an Affiliate Library. I
> Recently looking at a Familysearch catalogue entry it now appears that digitised microfilms of the British Library India Office records can ONLY BE VIWED AT A FAMILY HISTORY CENTRE.
> Affiliate Libraries seem to have lost the ability to show these records. In Australia most of the Affiliate Libraries are libraries of genealogical societies.
> Has anyone in Australia, or elsewhere, come across this?
> I would be interested to hear if there was any advice given by FamilySearch to the Affiliate Libraries, or if any one knows the background to this decision.
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OK, THANKS... I WILL ASK A PAID BL INDIA OFFICE PRIVATE RESEARCHER TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY SURVIVING PAYMASTER RECORDS FOR 'WIVES ALLOWANCE'FOR POONA,1826-35 (AND OTHER QUESTIONS - MAYBE I'LL JOIN FIBIS!).
THE BOOK ONLY HAS FN'S RELATING TO THE MIL LETTERS/PAPERS INITIATING THE ALLOWANCE IN 1825, ETC - NOT ANY PAYMENT RECORDS.
There was a term "COMMON LAW MARRIAGE/WIFE" I wonder if this was germaine to the discussion. It was common in Burma and recognised, my ggm never converted to Christianity.
I’m not aware of any records regarding wives allowance which you could search by name. If there were any such records surviving, the most probable/only source would be the British Library, so perhaps you could clarify there. However, I suspect records such as this have not survived. The book you quote from may have some relevant footnotes, or endnotes, which indicate sources, so also check there.
Many family search microfilms, and digitised microfilms, are copies of records which are relevant for India research, from the British Library India Office collection.
The digitised microfilms of the British Library India Office records could until recently be viewed at a FamilySearch Family History Centre, or at an Affiliate Library. I
Recently looking at a Familysearch catalogue entry it now appears that digitised microfilms of the British Library India Office records can ONLY BE VIWED AT A FAMILY HISTORY CENTRE.
Affiliate Libraries seem to have lost the ability to show these records. In Australia most of the Affiliate Libraries are libraries of genealogical societies.
Has anyone in Australia, or elsewhere, come across this?
I would be interested to hear if there was any advice given by FamilySearch to the Affiliate Libraries, or if any one knows the background to this decision.
The recent conversation on the India List regarding the above has raised my
hopes that I might find some information on my late husband's great-great
grandmother. His great-great grandfather (John Violet Snook b. 1806 in
Somerset UK) was granted a Cadetship with the 23rd Madras Native Infantry
and arrived in India in September 1825. There is a record of the birth
of a son Philip Henry 26th June 1834 at Kurnaul, christened 6th September
1834 at Lucknow, to Lt. J.B (should be J.V.) Snook 23rd Madras N.I. and a
There followed 3 more children but only the father's name recorded but I
feel all the children had the same mother. They were John Stacey 1837,
Matilda 1839, Wm. McArthur 1842,. These three were all christened on 1st
August 1847 at Lucknow.
Brevet Major John Violet Snook died Intestate on 10 October 1853 at Hapur.
UP. His daughter Matilda died 18th January 1854 in the Bengal
Military Orphan Asylum. Wm. McArthur Snook had died in 1849, aged 7 and I
can't find what happened to John Stacey. So only Philip seems to have
survived who is my late husband's ancestor.
The allowance which I believe would have been paid for these children would
have had to be claimed for and one would have thought the mother's name
would have been required. Would be great if the information is lurking
somewhere in some army records.
EURASIAN WIVES allowance - "Sex and the Family in Colonial India: The Making of Empire"; 2006..... IAN.
REPLIES :- see at end....
THANKS MAUREEN. Your response makes good sense.
BUT... I want to look through these records anyway. Do you know how to find and use them please?
I do "Explore The MS and Archives".. but can't find anything like "wives allowance" and variations of it.
The father was a PAYMASTER, and knowing how things worked in the HEIC, anything is possible! (having various businesses on the side (some tolerated,some not; seemed to be always away, without leave!, horse racing, hunting, other sports, etc). Finding a "Bibi" calls for all kinds of long shot investigations...all the time!
There was no money left to our Bibi. Everything left to the only child. I think Bibi was dead (maybe in 2nd childbirth??) or had 'separated'. Our Daughter was in a CMS Mission by 13(when father died after wounding).
This was a wife's allowance, not a widow's allowance - I think you know that, but if she wasn't eligible for a marriage allowance (as per Maureen's exp.) then doesn't seem chance at all she'd get a widow allowance.
DID YOU LOOK FOR HIS 'INVENTORY' DONE AT DEATH? Usually one done for Executors to administer the deceased's estate - and very interesting.
Ian, possibly (but I don’t know definitely) this allowance may have been extended to Indian wives who were legally married in terms of British law in India, which would only be those who had been married in a church. Note however to be married in a church, the Indian woman was required to become a Christian. As this would mean she would probably be shunned by her family, very few Indian women actually took this step.
My personal view is that it would be extremely unlikely that a wives allowance would be paid to bibis. Under British law in India they were not wives.
Interesting post Ian.
My 'native woman' g-g-g grandmother born in Kerala lost her hubby Lt Col
John Edwards my g-g-g gf in 1816.
I'm yet to find their 'marriage'. I wonder if being a widow, she got an
allowance. Though there was a Will and some money left to her..
EURASIAN WIVES finally got a wives allowance, approved circa March 1825
Does anyone know if it extended then, or later, to "full blood" ("native")
If so, I'd like to try and use those records of the extended allowance to
possibly find the "bibi" of our "natural daughter", born 1826.
[Ref : Durba Ghosh; "Sex and the Family in Colonial India: The Making of
Empire"; 2006. p.240.... and its f/n 105 - "O.I.O.C., F/4/787, no. 21363
(etc); Mil letter dated 31 March 1825, nos 54-5").
Extract :- "Several years later an allowance was approved for Eurasian wives
of Company and of royal troops. In a general order that applied to the
Bengal, Bombay, and Madras presidencies, the military department agreed to
pay an allowance of Rs. 4 per month to Eurasian wives compared to Rs. 5 per
month that was already paid to European wives. The indexing of allowances
to racial status suggests that not all wives were equal. One local official
resorted to a somatic explanation and noted that half-caste wives were often
more reliable and helpful to soldiers than were European women because their
bodies were acclimatized to the weather and living conditions of India".
I have just seen this on FIBIS. Does this mean there Is a photo? If so how do I view it. I have sent emails to FIBIS but as yet have had no reply.
Ref No. SJB2064
Photo no P1010986
Location St. Joseph's Church, Lucknow
Type of record Baptism (parents) Year 1921
Man's First Name Arnold Woman's First Name Lesley Surname Cabral
Occupation Telegraph dept City Lucknow