Beginning March 2nd, 2020 the Mailing Lists functionality on RootsWeb will be discontinued. Users will no longer be able to send outgoing emails or accept incoming emails. Additionally, administration tools will no longer be available to list administrators and mailing lists will be put into an archival state.
Administrators may save the emails in their list prior to March 2nd. After that, mailing list archives will remain available and searchable on RootsWeb
I had a look at a couple of things. First, John's death and burial. I looked
carefully at the record on FMP (and the previous and following pages). You
will see that the page itself is headed "Burials at St. Thomas Mount,
Secunderabad, Trimulgherry." The date of the first burial on the page is 8th
December 1878, and this is a carry-over from the previous page and refers to
a burial at St. Thomas Mount in Madras. The next is dated 17th October 1878,
and I believe that this was in Secunderabad. The next is dated 3rd October,
and then the rest follow in chronological order (including John's) and I
believe were in Trimulgherry (major suburb of Secunderabad).
Small matter, perhaps. However, the record for John Guynan describes him as
"Gunner 14/8 R.A." Although I do not have a record for 1878 on file, in
January and July 1879 I can confirm that the 14th Battery of the 8th Brigade
of Royal Artillery was stationed in Secunderabad. So I think to answer
Maureen's point, John was definitely in the Royal Artillery when he died.
His age is given as 65, which is pretty old for a serving soldier, but the
record gives every indication that he was still a serving soldier when he
died. In that case there will not be a surviving service record - what are
called "Service Records" on FMP are actually "Discharged to Pension"
records, and if you died whilst in service - well, no pension, and therefore
Again, when you look at the sequence of records around that of his widow
Catherine, I think you will agree that she is buried at Secunderabad.
On FMP there is a record of the birth and baptism in Rangoon of an Ellen
GUYMAN "soldier's child" to John and Catherine in 1863. No further
description, but this could be the same John?
I also note on FMP the birth of a Bridget E. GUYMAN in Rangoon in 1856 to a
soldier in the Royal Artillery; this is listed under "Army Births and
Baptisms." This birth is also recorded under "Army Returns of Births and
Baptisms" along with Elisabeth C. (Trichinopoly 1857), Ellen, (Rangoon
1866), John (Madras 1868), Mary A. (Bellary, 1870), Michael ( Trichinopoly
1859) and Patrick J. (Rangoon, 1865), all on the same page. Some of those
are definitely to John and Catherine (cross-references to other records on
FMP). If the same parents, then to revert to Maureen's point, the baptism of
Elisabeth Catherine describes John as "Gunner, Foot Artillery" indicating
that John was in the Madras Artillery until the transfer of soldiers to the
Royal Artillery in 1861.
I also note a marriage of a Bridget TILBROOK in 1900 (FMP - "Army Marriages)
in Thayetmyo, Burma.
I can send images if you wish to contact me off-list. I would also like to
see the record of John travelling to India in 1848 if you care to send it
Perhaps some of the above will assist?
Best wishes to everyone for a prosperous 2019.
Hi all! Thanks for letting me on board. John Guynan was my great-great-grandfather. I'm pretty good with information on his children and their descendants - except for Bridget.
Until yesterday, all I knew about John Guynan was that he died in Madras in 1878, and details on the death record I found on FMP suggest that he was born around 1813. But yesterday, I searched the archives here and found a post from 17 years ago showing that he arrived in India in 1848 aboard the ship Elizabeth, and that he was from Tullamore, King's County, Ireland. I'm not sure if I should take the "from" to mean that he was born there. I'm seeking information on his date of birth - or anything else really - and any information at all on his wife Catherine. She died in India in 1900, aged 80, and is buried in Tellicherry. I have a bad photograph of her gravestone from around 1901, but that gives little legible information. I'd love to know her maiden name and DOB, where she's from, etc.
Bridget Guynan married Henry Tilbrook on 18 April 1890. He died on 22 September 1899. I can find no record of any children they may have had - and no further record of Bridget to show a remarriage or her death.
Any help or info gratefully received!
My family had the anglo indian accent, which sounded Welsh.
My grandfather worked in the Viceroy's office and I assume spoke Urdu. Not sure what my grandmother spoke, she learned it in school, but she was not allowed to speak to the servants.
I only remember two words. They used to say "bus" when filling a glass (enough/stop) and a tea towel was "jaran". No idea of the spellings!
They were fluent, whatever it was. If they didn't want me to understand what they were saying, they would switch to hindi or urdu. I hated shopping with my grandfather. If he spotted an Indian in the market, he would start up a conversation. When the person got over the shock of being addressed in their own language, they would chatter away for AGES!!!!
This is something that I have been curious about for a while. My father was born in India and left when he was 23. He came from an Anglo Indian family but who lived a English way of life.
When he spoke he had that very Indian head action where he would tilt his head from side to side. People would comment that he sounded as though he was from Wales.
I had never heard him speak Indian. My question is would he been fluent in the Indian language?
Sent from Samsung tablet.
In answer to a question off-list, perhaps I should post this for all to see.
I accessed the edition containing the detail of the Walter/Anchant marriage
via Google. I searched on "anchant, madras", and initially passed over the
actual "hit" because the OCR has read the girl's name as "Inn Archant"
rather than "Ann Archant." Luckily I spotted it the second time around.
This is the actual "hit"
s%20courier%20(September%2013,%201809).pdf and the reference is on page 2,
As for the Tamil Digital Library, go to www.tamildigitallibary.in (may not
connect immediately) and then click on "E" in the top RH corner to get the
Then click on "Periodicals" and search "Madras Courier." Each edition is
shown as a tile - click to see the full document page by page. Unfortunately
they are not in date order, but by resting the cursor over the tile you can
see the edition and date without opening the document. I saw one from 1793,
another from 1810. Pull down on the bar at the side to see more editions.
They can be downloaded as .pdf documents, and it would be a smart move to
take the time to download them all - you never know when this sort of
material is going to disappear for ever.
Google search on Anchant, madras, page 3 of results. Pdf document from the
Tamil Digital Library.
Marriage announcement from the "Madras Courier" Volume XXV, Wednesday,
September 13, 1809.
"On 9th Instant, at St. Mary's Church, Mr. John Walter to Miss Ann Anchant,
from Mrs. Murray's Seminary, Vepery."
There is a free e-book on Google Books entitled "Madrasiana" by the W.T.
Munro. (Note, for some reason Google Books quotes the author as the Reverend
William Taylor.) Section 8 describes Mrs. Murray's Seminary, and Section 9
the male asylum run originally run by the Reverend Bell. My reading suggests
that at least the former was for the illegitimate daughters of senior army
Mrs. Murray was formerly Mrs. Stevenson of the Female Asylum. There are
mentions of her in "The Story of Madras" on the Internet Archive, and also
"Vestiges of Madras" on Google Books.
I haven't been rigorous with my searching, but there does appear to be quite
a strong connection of the surname ANCHANT to Prince of Wales Island
(Penang) and to Singapore. There are a number of entries in the databases on
FindMyPast, including "British in India", and some on the India Office
Family History Search site. I also Googled for a while. A Robert Anchant was
a master mariner (I think master of the "Georgiana", Calcutta Gazette,
1805), and a John Anchant was master of the vessel "Transfer" in 1807 - John
was a 1789 "Foundation Boy" from the Madras School. Importantly perhaps, a
William Anchant was a 1790 "Foundation Boy" from the Madras School, and he
is shown as "employed in the Victualling Department in Penang. One might
guess that these two boys were brothers and that Ann was a sister.
This book has a very long title - "The Madras School, or Elements of
Tuition comprising the analysis of an experiment in education made at the
male asylum, Madras." It's available as a free e-book on Google Books. The
school was a military asylum.
These two boys also appear in "An Abridged Edition of the Works of the Rev.
Andrew Bell.", also a free-e-book.
Please contact me off-list if you can't find or access these books.
A William Anchant was principal of the Penang Free School 1826-1828. Perhaps
the same one?
Unfortunately the on-line Singapore and Malaya newspapers go back only to
1835 or so, but the name appears frequently there.
James Anchant and William Anchant were products of the Male Military Orphanage in Madras.
in 1789 James is listed as being the master of a ship and William in 1790 is employed in the victualling Dept., Penang.
I presume they were orphaned brothers. The details can be found by Googling the Madras Male Military Orphanage on Google Books.
I can'tlocate the original enquiry but the following may be of interest :-
* " Numb.16998.The London Gazette - Part 1, page 581.
War Office, March 28, 1815.
Promoted to Lieut-General in H.M.Army in East India only.
Commissioned Jan. 1, 1805."
* "The Asiatic Journal and Monthly Register for British India.....
Deaths. (after March). Page 869
In Russell Place, Lieut-General Thomas Trent, of the hon.
of the hon. East India Company service, in his 81st year. "
JOHN WALTER married ANN ANCHANT on the 9th September 1809 at St Mary's
Church, Fort St George, Madras.
They were both of Full Age and no parents names were given. The record
of this marriage has the word "natives" written across it.
I have full records of their children (handed down through the family) and
I know that John Walter died on the 27th July 1827 aged 47 yrs 3 mos. and
25 days from which I have worked out his birth would have been on the 2nd
I have tried to find the parents of John and Ann without success. Is
anyone researching these names?
I don’t know if I can be of any help, but I have been researching the vast family, marital & business partners and friends of Godlieb Van Someren 1790-1853 for the past 20 years.
Godlieb was a Deacon of Blacktown Chapel, where your Godlieb Williams was christened and a wealthy merchant in Madras, of Dutch origin, but probably thought of as being of mixed race.
In the London Gazette of Dec 5th 1835 Part 1 Page 1004 your Godlieb Williams is listed as “an inhabitant of Madras, — prisoner in His Majesty’s debtors gaol,.” He is also mentioned as one of many who have signed a Petition for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors.
Unfortunately I can’t find out why he was in debt or for how much.
Your Godlieb Williams married Mary Richardson on 29th April 1830 at Blacktown Chapel [IGI M00057-8]
Please contact me if you think I can be of any help in your searches.
The record that I found on FindMyPast some time ago and informed you about
clearly shows that the child was the "natural son" of William Williams and
In most cases, the terms "natural son" and "natural daughter" meant that the
parents were not married.
I would suggest that "Aynamah" was an Indian woman.
I may have many moons ago put this item on before, and if so, my apologies,
however with more and more archives being found, one never knows, what will
I think I have found the Baptism details for my Great Gt.Gt.Grandfather
Godlieb Williams. He was born in, Madras. India,
William and Ann or Annama, who presented Godlieb Williams to the Chaplain
Rev. M. Davis on the 26th. April, 1814 to be Christened, not at St. Mary¹s
within the Fort, but at St. Mark's Chapel (built 1800) in Black Town, then
later re-named George Town, Madras. The child had been born on the 5th.
March 1814, a year before the Battle of Waterloo.
As the ship landed in August 1813, could this have been a shipboard romance,
or a very quick romance once William had touched Indian soil. I should
think the latter., as it spans nine months. I have not as yet found a
marriage, for William Williams and Ann or Annama.
Ann Trober, a very young Anglo-Indian teenager, under fourteen, was
returning to India, and is on the embarkation list of ³The General Stewart²,
so I am informed. Teen- age brides were not uncommon in those days, as
records prove. Was this his wife? I will need to check the log of the ship
to see if I can find a wedding entry, though I doubt it, as serving soldiers
were not granted such privileges of a shipboard romance unless you were an
officer. If not, I have some homework to do, however at this stage I will
settle for Annama or Ann. Could she have been Ann Trober? The Ann and
Annama could go together. Still have not found a marriage certificate,
apparently I am informed that the baptism certificate states ³natural son²
of William and Annama, which being translated means ³illegitimate¹, so I
presume looking for a marriage certificate would be futile, however one
never knows, what might turn up. Annama was certainly of mixed blood, as
Godlieb was recorded as an Indo-Briton, later to be known as Anglo-Indian.
I have not traced the Trober line. If anybody has a clue, I would be glad
of the information. Her parents would likely have been in the British Army,
and were perhaps returning to India.