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Sorry to send this to the list but I sent a message to update my email
address details to your Surnames List but it was returned so am forwarding
same through the list, hope this is okay.
Could I please request that my email address be changed on your India
Surnames List for THORPE, LYNCH, SYMMS/SYMMONS
joanbirtles(a)bigpond.com [originally it was birtles(a)tpg.com.au ]
For some time I have had a copy of the Last Will & Testament for a John
THORPE dated 11 February 1867 a late employee of the Public Works Department
of the Government of Fort Saint George, however I did not believe that this
John THORPE was either of my John Thorpe Snr or Jnr but now have second
thoughts after deciphering one of the witnesses on the actual Will dated 8
August 1864, as Supt. of Police, it was a very bad copy.
My John THORPE Jnr. was a Clerk in the Police Department shown on the
baptism of 3 of his children but their mother was shown as Nursannah. In
this John's Will he names his wife as Catherine, however I've never been
able to find a marriage of John to Nursannah or a Catherine. The children
were John b 1847, Thomas b 1851 & Lucy b 1863, all baptised at Chudderghat
I have not been able to find the death in 1867 of John Thorpe or as I said
the marriage. Could anyone help with advice on where to find any of the
above information to prove whether this John could be my John Thorpe Jnr.
older brother to my gg grandmother Paulina Thorpe who married John Lynch.
I have transcribed all the THORPE's from many LDS films [indexes & records]
I have looked at over the years but of course there could be lots I've
Any help would be very much appreciated.
On 28/10/08 20:52, "Arvind Kolhatkar" <akolhatkar(a)rogers.com> wrote:
> I think the National Bank of India that you speak of is the one mentioned in
.... After a series of mergers described in this webpage, the Standard and
> Chartered Bank seems to be holding its remnants.
Looks like another twist in the ownership trail .. Will check this out.
Great description of Bankers Row ... There are more photos of the bank in
"Southern India " by Playne Wright etc
> There appears to be another London-based National Bank of India having its
> office at 26 Bishopsgate, London. (See
> http://www.duffus.com/johngerard1.htm ). Are the two banks the same?
Yes this is the same bank ..and our man appears in reports about the bank in
The Times between 1930 and 1956.
The Duffus employment contract is brilliant .. And explains why Robert
Leonard HIRD did not get married till 10 years after he started at NBI.
Thanks for the information and links
Lanark Scotland .. Sometime Kingston Ontario
On 28/10/08 20:55, "Michael Richards" <mrichfam(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Robin wrote:> Where can I find the archives of the National Bank of India
> ?Pre-independence, this would have been known as the Imperial Bank of India.
The bank I am researching was The National Bank of India and founded in
Calcutta in 1863 as The Calcutta City Banking Corporation Ltd. It changed to
The National Bank of India in 1864. Sometime later it moved Head Office to
Around 1914 it had about 13 braches in India plus branches in Ceylon and
Robert Leonard HIRD joined in 1897 (age 20) probably in London and may have
gone to India soon after as he was 'allowed' to get married in 1907.
We have his travels out to India and evidence that their first child Ingo
Marion Hird was born in Aden in 1908. By 1925 his career is accelerating
and he made a round the world trip with his wife and daughters.
He is appointed to the post of London Manger and then General Manager.
Finding the archives of the NBI is a challenge as it became part of
Grindlay's and then ANZ.
Robin & Margaret McEwen-King, Middletown Farm, Nemphlar, Scotland
Fun lamb videos for our grand children and friends at
This is my first posting, so I hope that this is an appropriate request.
I am interested in the social conditions that an infantry corporal and his family would experience in India .
He served there from 1857 to 1867
He married the daughter of a sergeant of his regiment -4th Regiment of Foot - in 1859.
A daughter was born in 1862
In 1865 he was reduced to the rank of private the sentence of a court martial for drunkenness
I would appreciate any information and any suggestions of where I could search
I have just serched Ancestry.Com and found my late husband's arrival from
Indian to England in 1958 on th Iberia at the age of 15.
**There is nothing on this earth more to be prized than true friendship.**
My sheets are for personal use only do not sell or upload to another group.
Further to my earlier email, Wikipedia gives the following information:
'The Imperial Bank of India came into existence on 27 January 1921 when the three Presidency Banks of colonial India, were reorganized and amalgamated to form a single banking entity. The three Presidency banks were the Bank of Bengal, established on 2 June 1806, the Bank of Bombay (incorporated on 15 April 1840) and the Bank of Madras (incorporated on 1 July 1843).
'Imperial Bank of India performed all the normal functions which a commercial bank was expected to perform. In the absence of any central banking institution in India until 1935, the Imperial Bank of India also performed a number of functions which are normally carried out by a central bank.'
In 1955, the Imperial Bank of India became the State Bank of India.
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Can someone please help. I am trying to find a marriage between Arthur
Campbell Tattersall and Violet ??? that would have taken place between 1926
and 1930 approx possibly at S.H church in Calcutta ( but only because this
is where their daughter was baptised) Arthur was my father and this is one
of the pieces of the puzzle that I am missing.
Thanks in advance
Carol in Adelaide South Australia
The pre-independence Imperial Bank of India became, in 1955, the State Bank
of India (SBI) after the Reserve Bank of India acquired a majority holding
in it. It is today the largest Indian Bank. The Imperial Bank itself was
formed in 1921 by merging three other banks. The SBI was almost entirely
Government-owned till the mid-1990's. Public participation in the capital
was introduced thereafter and since then the SBI share has been one of the
sought-after shares in the Stock Exchanges.
The National Bank of India did not have anything 'national' about it. It
was just another bank with a high-sounding name.
Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, October 29, 2008.
Robin wrote:> Where can I find the archives of the National Bank of India ?Pre-independence, this would have been known as the Imperial Bank of India. Michael
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I think the National Bank of India that you speak of is the one mentioned in
This Bank was founded in Calcutta in 1863 but later appears to have its
major presence in Madras. It is mentioned in several other web references
too. After a series of mergers described in this webpage, the Standard and
Chartered Bank seems to be holding its remnants. You could approach that
Bank to find out if any records of the National Bank are held by them in
There appears to be another London-based National Bank of India having its
office at 26 Bishopsgate, London. (See
http://www.duffus.com/johngerard1.htm ). Are the two banks the same?
Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, October 28, 2008.
Where can I find the archives of the National Bank of India ?
Robert Leonard HIRD worked for the bank from 1897 to 1946. We know he was
in Madras, Aden and Colombo before returning to London in 1928.
I have now obtained his death certificate and found his obituary in the
Times. (see below) he held significant posts and we hope we can find
references to him.
As a senior manger in India etc would he also appear in local newspapers?
If so how do we find those?
Obituary in The Times of 22 August 1956
Mr Robert Leonard Hird, who died at Bournemouth recently at the age of 79,
had been a director of the National Bank of India for over 10 years. He
joined the staff of the bank in1897 and served 28 of the 59 years he was
with the bank in the Far East. He was appointed inspector of branches in
1928 and subsequently London manager. In 1942 he became general manager and
served in the post until January, 1946. In in the previous August,
however, he had been elected to the board and retained his seat until his
The common coins in use during the 1930's were rupees, annas & pice.
There were still a few pies around and the odd gul mohur. From memory,
accounts were kept in Rs/rupiahs, as/ anas & p/pies for some reason of
which I am not aware because in the end payment had to be made up in
pice.Perhaps this was so because the pie still had some value? I think
I remember pie postage/fiscal stamps being around, it was a long time
ago for me and I never was a money manager.
Sylvia has reminded me that I, too, have seen the same error. The vessel
details are wrongly indexed in some cases.
It is important to look at the actual image(s) rather than just the index.
When you do you will see that many of them seem to be stapled or otherwise
fastened in the top left-hand corner.
Without looking at the originals it is hard to be definitive about this, but
it is possible that more than one manifest is stapled in a bunch. Remember,
they were kept for statistical purposes, not for family historians. An
indexer in a hurry looks at the first page only, and assumes all the rest
are for the same ship.
Important point: always look at the image itself (if you possibly can)
rather than the index or transcription. This applies to everything, not just
Nice to catch up with you again, we get back to each other from time to time
on our LYNCH lines.
I would appreciate any information you may come across and have filed in
your LYNCH collection re my John Lynch b Ireland.
Enjoy your stay in Scotland.
----- Original Message -----
From: "elmac44" <elmac44(a)ntlworld.com>
> Hi Joan
> You posted that you are looking for Lynch -
>>LYNCH ......John Lynch b 1827 Kilrush, Co Clare father Patrick Lynch > > >
>>married Paulina Thorpe b 1830 emigrated to NSW Australia about 1855.
> this is a name I am researching in India - my ancestor was DAVID LYNCH so
> have been gathering various bits and pieces of information whenever I get
> the British Library. I am going to Scotland in mid November for a couple
> weeks to "dog-sit" for my daughter and aim to get a lot of this
> into some sort of searchable order and once I have done that will get back
> to you if I find that I have information on your John Lynch.
> Researching FARRELL, GRIER, LYNCH, MACK in India
At the risk of becoming boring on this topic .... (sorry) ..... I have
discovered another type of indexing error to look out for. One of my
grandfather's voyages was indexed as being on the P & O's Rawalpindi which
began its journey in Yokohama and arrived London on 29 March 1934. When I
looked at the image, it was actually the P & O's Mantua which started in
Bombay and arrived London on 19 March 1934. This probably makes the source
I then tried to check the entire manifest for the Mantua, but found only one
page - so suspect that the persons photographing/scanning the images as well
as the indexers may have had problems with finding loose pages and some out
of order in the original documents at the Nat Archives.
I would be grateful for any information or any advice about how to proceed with expanding my knowledge of my ancestors Robert Kerr and Thomas Foxhill, particularly their military details. Will their military records be in Calcutta or in London (TNA)? Here is the information I have so far unearthed (mainly from Bengal BMDs):
Assistant in Aud.-Gen's Office; and Assistant in Adj.-Gen's Office
Married Margaret Foxhill 12 October 1812 Calcutta
Amelia, bap. 19 December 1813 Calcutta
Georgiana, bap. 9 March 1817 Ft. William, Calcutta
Mary Ann Matilda, bap. 18 March 1821 Ft. William, Calcutta m. Henry Bardolph Connew 17 August 1841 Calcutta Cathedral (my 2x gt. Grandparents)
Cecilia, bap. 21 April 1822
Charlotte Augusta, bap. 15 February 1824 Ft. William, Calcutta
Robert, bap. 25 September 1825 Ft. William, Calcutta
The last two children, Margaret & Emma Dorcas, were bap. 1827 & 1830 respectively in St. John's, Calcutta.
Sgt., Infantry; Sgt., E.R.
m. Margaret ? [or Madge ?]
Buried 27 March 1811 Ft. William, Calcutta
Charlotte, bap. 19 November 1797 Ft. William, Calcutta
m. Joseph Webb 30 May 1813 Ft. William, Calcutta
Margaret - no baptismal record found
Matilda, bap. 21 March 1802 Calcutta
Mary Ann, bap. 12 February 1804 Calcutta Died 1820
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I join the defense case. Peter you are right. We should not judge what
people did in the past. There must have been some reason. At least
Merle Oberon did not leave her mother behind like many others have done.
The Mother must have had the choice to play that roll of the ayah in
her daughter's world.
[mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Sent: 26 October 2008 16:53
To: lynnehadley1(a)bigpond.com; india-british-raj(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Merle Oberon
The defence case....
You cannot judge happenings/events/attitudes of the 20s/30s & 40s
in the light of the so called open society of today.
Miss Oberon apparently wished not to acknowledge a background
that would have most probably brought into play the often very
odious namings that were applied to people from any mixed race.
The world is so different today that almost every beautiful
actress seems to have a mixed background either by race, country
or language....How things change !!
Guys, it's true.........she did take her mother to England in the
guise of her ayah.
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Seeking info to expand my very small amount of knowledge on William Warren, 31, bachelor Cpl HM's 49th Foot. Married Ellenor Heffren, 15, spinister on 17th October 1833 at Calcutta.
They have two children that I can find at the moment; Thomas Warren born circa 1841 at Dingapore (is there such a place??)
and Susan Warren born circa 1844 at Berampore.
So here's the bits I need assistance from fellow listers. Where do now?
I presume this couple had more children. Where to look?
Ellen and the two children return to England by 1851 Census so presume William Warren died between approx 1843ish till 1850. Where can I look?
Has anyone come across Thomas Lane WEBB born 1858 London ENG.
A tailor by trade, he went out to India sometime after the 1881 Census. He married in Calcutta in 1896-1900 to a widow (it would seem) Georgina Johanna BROWN (1868-1916).
Thomas appears to have returned to England permanently in 1918, described as a Merchant on the passenger list. His wife had died in Streatham, London in 1916 - the informant was her daughter, W.A. BROWN of East Dulwich. Thomas is at that time described as a Master tailor. It seems likely that the couple had no (surviving) issue of their union.
A letter received from Thomas in 1921 from Kent is the last mention I have of him - sadly, the letter with possible address is no longer extant.
Not much to show for a lifetime of experiences ....
Any further details most welcome.
Adelaide, South Australia
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