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I do hope it is alright to pass on this message to listers.
Many of us use these wonderful CDs of old books etc. for our research. Rod
Neep, the Founder, is retiring very soon so he's giving 50% off on all the
titles. 8 are specific to India.
Have a look using this link:
The catalogue shows normal prices BUT when you check out, if the order value
(excluding tax) is £15 or more then the final amount will be discounted by a
massive 50%. (e.g. Order £20 worth of CDs and you will get them for £10.00,
plus P&P). This offer is only available on the Archive CD Books web site at
Be quick. It's only available for a couple of days. If you're outside the EU
you don't pay VAT.
I have succumbed...
Ruth in Brum (Birmingham, England)
Please note that I made an error with regards to the recent request I put in for a look-up for the above person. It concerns a marriage record, not a baptism. Apologies for this error.
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Is there anyone visiting the India Office who could look up the following record for me:
Horatio Medley baptised in 1935 in Lucknow, volume 563, folio 155. I assume Lucknow falls under the Bengal Presidency, which is N1.If possible I would like full details of parents and witnesses.
In the hope that someone will respond. My thanks in advance.
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Dear Jean-Louis Douyere
My apologies for repeating your response to my query last March concerning
Theresa Derridon. I have undertaken further research since then including
the purchase of a book on General Perron by Alfred Martineau in 1931.
Reading this book has corrected some errors in the information I had
previously been given and which I shared with you.
I believe the spelling of Derridon has been Anglicised. If Theresa is
related to a French major it must be Major Louis Deridan, a French officer,
originally from Pondichery and of mixed race, in the armies of Scindhia who
was married to a Moslem wife. Perron was married to a Madeleine Deridan, a
daughter of the Major, in 1782. Madeleine died at Chinsurah in 1804 at the
age of 36 having bourne 10 children, eight of whom died young.
In his book Martineau states - "She had married Perron at 14 and died at 36
after having given him 10 children. The little we know of her, suggests that
she was more Indian than French."
This is my translation of the book which is in French -
Elle avait epouse Perron a 14 ans et mourait a 36 apres lui avoir donne 10
enfants. Le peu que nous savons d'elle, nous permet d'affirmer qu'elle
tenait de ses parents plus de sang indien que de sang francais.
It may be therefore that no record is maintained in any European registry.
Perron returned to France via Portsmouth and Hamburg in 1806 with the
considerable help of Wellington - astonishing given the state of war between
the two countries - with his two children, Madeleine and Joseph, neither of
whom spoke any French, and a fabulous fortune. Madeleine married the Comte
de Montesquiou - Friessac. Joseph married Caroline Oudinot de Reggio,
daughter of a Marechal. Perron later remarried having two further daughters
who both married aristocracy (Rochefoucauld and another Montesquiou -
Friessac) Perron died in 1834 just short of his 81st birthday.
Major Deridan acquired Perron's estates in India including his house which
is now the Moslem University in Alighar/Agra.
Theresa Derridon (or Deridan) was married in 1824 to an Irish doctor called
Alexander Rennick (surgeon to Tulfikar Ali Bahadur - Nawab of Banda) so the
time line for her as a daughter of Deridan could be one generation out. She
could be his granddaughter.
The Rennick's daughter, Eliza Rennick, married an Edward Tetley Dudman and
their daughter (my gt gt grandmother) was christened Eveline Ellen Derridon
Dudman (the Ellen could be a corruption of Madeleine) suggesting the link to
Deridan and following the Irish practice of naming girls.
If you are able to find out anything in the CAOM I would be very grateful.
If my request is too onerous or contains insufficient detail please let me
If any lister is interested in Perron and his descendants the book has
pedigrees of Perron and his daughters Madeleine, Charlotte and Elisabeth as
well as those of Louis Deridan's children who married into the Hessing and
Sutherland families (two well known Dutch and Scottish mercenaries from the
time of the Mahratta wars) I will be happy to respond to any requests.
Richard J Hayter
I will try to find out next time I will go to the CAOM.........within the
next 2 weeks I hope.........
Dear List members,
If anyone venturing to the British Library has some extra time on their hands and is willing to do a couple of look-ups for me I'd very much appreciate it indeed. The marriages are as follows:
Edmund Piddington to Elizabeth Albert 1865
N1 Vol 114, Folio 346
Alfred L Piddington to Amelie H Harvey 1870
N1 Vol 131, Folio 224 & 265
I'm especially interesed to know the names of witnesses aswell as all other recorded details.
Thanking you in advance,
Michael LaValette, Scotland.
Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now.
was wondering if their are any post office directories for Coimbatore in the 1980's onwards ?
Trying to find a living relative for my Cousin
Jimmy SLADE last known living in Coimbatore...
Iris (on behalf of Sophie Elliott)
It is a couple of years since I sent a message to the India-l mailing list and time I tried again. I have a large file of the LYS families and am always pleased to add to the file and exchange information. If you wish to contact me please put LYS in the message subject otherwise your message may get deleted wothout being opened. I get so many!!
My apologies to the List, but my email messages to Andrea are now bouncing and since I first established contact with her through the India List, I thought it appropriate to petition the List for help in establishing her new address.
Her bouncing address is: Andreabjamieson(a)aol.com Can anyone help?
(logging in from Toronto and going through life like a porcupine in a room full of balloons.)
Many thanks for some kind remarks about my recent background notice on Parsees, Zoroastrians and Armenians. No
problems, happy to help. For those who have asked here are a few books on Parsees and Zoroastrians which may help
If you go to somewhere like amazon.co.uk and type in 'Zoroastrians' or 'Parsee' you will get quite a good bibliography
Dosabhai Framji Karaka, "History of the Parsis" COSMO/INDIGo, New Delhi (42-B Ansari Road, Darya Ganj, New Delhi 110
002), not sure of the original date of publication somewhere in the 1880s but it is now reprinted in 2001 by COSMO. An
excellent introduction to the Indian Parsees.
J.S. Palestia, The Parsis of India, Preservation of Identity in Bombay City, Brill, Leiden, 2001
J., Hinnells & A. Williams, "Parsis in India and the Disapora", Routledge South Asian Religion, 2007
M. Boyce, "Zoroastrians, their religious beliefs and practices", not sure of publisher. This is a beginners guide to
M. Boyce, "A History of Zorastrianism" 3 volumes, E.J. Brill, Leiden 1975, 1982, 1991. A heavy academic work but a good
reference point. Use it in a library it costs the earth
Max Muller, 'The Zend-Avesta' 3 vols, Delhi 1774, 1975 in the series "Sacred texts of the East". This is the
translation of the main Zoroastrian texts included the earliers scriptures believed to have been penned by Zoroaster
himself (the Yasht hymns).
John Curtis, "Anciet Persia" London 1989. History of early Persia
A, Bausani, Religion in Iran, from Zoroaster to Baha'ullah, "Studies in the Babi and Baha'i Religion V,Ii. A more
general work covering all aspects of Iranian religious tradition
happy bedtime reading......
Jonathan Lee (Dr)
researching Armenians and religious minorities in Afghanistan, NWFP and Punjab
I have transcriptions of the following from LDS film 530007 'Ecclesiastical
Returns Omissions' - Madras
Ref N/2/0/6 (folio 41) Marriages St John's Secunderabad
George Alexander PETERS/ Sarah Elizabeth ISAACS.
Albert Henry DUCKETT /Adalene Beatrice CARTWRIGHT (nee PHILLLIPS).
George Thomas SMITH /Muriel Celestine(?) DE LA CROIX.
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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
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I read a posting on the ROOTSWEB Indian Mailing List by you about the HEIC. I have been searching for information on Isaac MYERS. He was a mariner and Pilot with the HEIC in Calcutta India. He was invalided out in 1794-96 per the government and died in 1921 in Calcutta and is buried in South Park Cemetery. If I knew how to get his pension records on line or otherwise, I probably could find his parents names and his place of birth and actual date of birth. I think it was 1750. I was told that he was Dutch Jewish.Is this the sort of question you have answers to. I hope so. Regards Joy USA
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Good Afternoon Roland
Very many thanks for taking the trouble to look up those details. I had found the two marriages but the War Service record is a new one on me.
Henry Hillyard seems to be the mystery man. I get the impression he was the blacksheep of the family........ a bit like me, I suppose! I have tried searching throughout Australia, New Zealand and the UK but after 1918 he seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth. Perhaps he went to South Africa, who knows. Do you happen to know if the archives in South Africa are searchable?
As far as I can find out, all three brothers were born in India. Edward Charles Langley Hillyard in Mhow, West Bengal, Frederick George Hillyard in Madras and Henry Francis Hillyard - family gossip says he was also born "in India". Not very helpful I'm afraid!
I have no idea in which presidencies the above places were.
Researching the Hillyard and Manley families.
I have found, this morning, that my great-aunt was buried at Harley Street
Cemetery, Rawalpindi, in 1933. I have the grave reference and a map of the
cemetery. The gravestone was still standing and legible in 1993.
Does anyone know of a reliable way of obtaining a (preferably digital)
photograph of a gravestone in this cemetery?
Dear Blair Southerden
Ref. your enquiry regarding the faith of Parsees and Armenians.
The term "Parsee" is actual a misnomer, being an Indianised version of 'farsi' i.e. someone from Fars (in SE Iran) and
since Fars was the birthplace of the Persian language, this term is also applied in Iran to the Persian language. It is
from Farsi that we derive the English term, Persian/Persia.
Parsees are so named because in India Parsees were emigrees from Iran who settled in Karachi, Bombay and other ports
mostly on the western seacoast and traded with Iran.
Muslims in Persia and other regions of N. India tend to refer to Zoroastrians by the pejorative term 'atish parast',
fire worshippers, or 'zardushti', from the Persian name Zardusht, from which we derive the English word Zoroaster.
In fact Parsees neither worship fire nor Zoroaster, who is merely the prophet who had the revelation which reformed pre-
existing ancient Indo-Iranian religion, and I suspect that Zoroastrians resent being called fire worshippers or
Zoroaster-worshipers in the same way that calling Muslims Muhammadans and claiming they worship Muhammad, is in fact
blasphemous for Muslims.
No one known when Zoroaster was born or even exactly where his miniostry took place. Academics spend a great deal of
time writing about this subject to the confusion of the ordinary punter and sometimes themselves. Zoroastrian studies
is the a little corner of Religious Studies not for the faint hearted......
The best guess (and it is still is a guess since everything is text based, no archaeological evidence) Zoroaster was an
historic person who lived sometime prior to the 7th-8th century BC, and maybe many centurues before that date. His main
sphere of ministry was the provinces of eastern Iran (the satraps of Bactria (modern Balkh in N. Afghanistan); Sistan
and/or the Herat area (known as Aria)).
Zoroastrianism underwent numerous transformations over the aoens and whilst the central cult remains, a lot of
additional theology and mythology was incorporated.
Zoroastrians worship Ahura Mazda, the god of good, light and truth, whose enemy is Ahriman, the evil demon. Man was
created by Ahura to participate in the fight against evil, man thus has a central role in the defeat of evil. As a
result Zs must always speak the truth since to lie is to add power to Ahriman and the forces of darkness.
Zoroastrianism is a dualistic religion, inasmuch as it does not accept Ahura Mazda (God) as being the author of evil
and sin to the same degree that Islam or Christianity does.
There are 4 sacred elements, fire, water, earth and sky. As these elements are sacred, Zs will not bury or cremate
their dead but expose them on frames above the ground for birds to eat them. Anyone who has ben to Bombay will know
about the Parsee 'ghats' on the Bombay hills, a visit to the site can, on occasions, cause surprise when squabbling
vultures or kites drop bits of dead bodies at ones feet.
Zoroastrians have a priesthood (hereditary) and rituals in which which fire is central (hence the misunderstanding
about them worshipping fire - rememebr early Christians were accused of cannibalism since pagans believed they 'ate'
the body and drank the 'blood' of their god).
To learn more about the Zs the best authority on modern and ancient Zoroastrianism is Prof. Mary Boyce. Her three
volume history of Zoroastrianism (Brill, Leiden) are definitive as well as comprehensive. She has also written shorter,
There are still Zoroastrian communities in Persia today, mostly in the SE. They have tended to be persecuted on and off
by the state, whose official rite is Shi'i Islam.
Armenians are not Zoroastrians though prior to their adoption of Orthodox Christianity as the State cult in the 5th
century AD, they were also Zoroastrian. Armenians pride themselves on being the first State to make Christianity the
official religion and the life of St Gregory, their patron saint, is well recorded. Armenian's change of faith was
partly political, since Armenia at the time was dominated by Sasanid Persia (the Sasanid state religion was
Zoroastrianism) and in order to establish a distinct national identity they turned to Christianity (a simplisitic
explanation I know).
The official relgion of Armenian is the Armenian Orthodox Church (which differs in rites and some confessional issues
from the Russian and Greek Orthodox), and most Armenians are members of this rite. A minority of Armenians are Roman
Catholic but there are are also a significant number of Protestant (Pentecostals, Baptist) particularly amongst the
many Armenians in Iran and Turkey. Armenians are spread all over the Middle East and Asia and make up a significant
diaspora. They have been subject to frequent persecution by some Muslim states, partly because of their religion but
also because of their ethnicity.
If your gggrandfather came from Persia he probably came from Kirman or that area and you may well still have distant
cousins in the region. The Z. community in Iran is very close knit and doubtless you could find out a bit about your
ancestor through a visit.
Hope this helps
best of luck with the research
Jonathan Lee (my doctorate is in Religious Studies!)
I have been watching some of your messages and your first name interests me. My g grandfather married Henrietta Starling born Calcutta 1.5.1846 and had a tribe of children, when she died he then married her sister Sophia De Cruz (nee Starling) born 31.12.1839 Calcutta. Their father was Samual Starling. I was wondering if the name "Starling" was a family name and if there might be a possible connection.
> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:02:49 +0100> From: back2.roots(a)yahoo.co.uk> To: india(a)rootsweb.com> Subject: [INDIA] Jennet McCoy> > Hi Everyone,> If there is anyone who has come across the above person in their family history research would be most interested to hear from you. She married my 3x great-grandfather, William BRUCE [who worked for Cook & Co]. on 7th January 1833 in Calcutta, and was a widow at the time. Unfortunately I don't know what her maiden name is. They had 2 children, i.e. Jane born 25/10/1838 [my 2x great-grandmother] and Frances Marian b. 15/09/1839. Both children were born in Calcutta. I am eager to know whether she had any children from her first marriage, and what her maiden name is. I have checked online records, but have had no success. Hoping that someone will be able to help.> > Starling > > > ---------------------------------> Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now.> ===== India Mailing List =====> > Family History in India: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~clday/> Families in British India Society: http://www.fibis.org> > Rootsweb's archives of messages for this list can be found at:> http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=INDIA> and at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/INDIA> -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger
The Armenians in India - Mesrovb Jacob Seth (8120608127) - is available @
USD 26.85, free of airmail charges from Asian Educational Services in New
Armenians in India
By Mesrovb Jacob Seth
ISBN : 8120608127
(Reprint Calcutta 1937 edn.) 1993, 2005
Status : Available
Hope this helps.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Lee" <jllee(a)xtra.co.nz>
To: "liz" <brio1(a)tinyworld.co.uk>; <india(a)rootsweb.com>;
Cc: <the(a)rel105.mail.aue.yahoo.com>; <e(a)rel105.mail.aue.yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [INDIA] Any relationship between Armenian and Persian
> Seth, M.J. 1937 (rprnt, New Delhi, 1992), "Armenians in India," Calcutta.
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Guys, I'd be very interested to hear from anybody who is researching the
above? Cheers, guys. Lynne. :))
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave
with the intention of arriving safely in an
attractive and well preserved body, but
rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand,
martini in the other, body thoroughly used
up, totally worn out and screaming
"WOO HOO what a ride!"
my great-aunts and uncle were baptised in Rangoon when they were teenagers.
On the baptism returns it shows the father (my great grandfather) and his
I have a possible fit for my great grandfather, but this person is reported
dead some years previously to the above baptisms. Has anyone come across
Hi Tony - Yes, you can get the certificates online - just fill in the
application form on line and give a credit card number for payment. It's
cheaper if you have the actual reference numbers, but if not they will look
under the relevant year for you. They have a section called "Searching for
Overseas Records" which gives a lot of detail of what they hold and
information contained in the records, ordering, fees and delivery etc.
Best wishes, Maggie (in a sunny, but very windy, Vendee, France).