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Sincere thanks to all those who responded to my request for the History of Chandernagor, especially to John who provide a whole extract which was most informative. It is clear that I must do some serious reading of my history books again
Sorry for the delay is acknowledgeing this help but we are preparing to move to the UK. Chaos reigns but at least we will be nearer OIOC :-)
Peter in a chilly Pretoria
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Soord <ksoord(a)wa1.quik.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:36 PM
Subject: [India-L] Kings Own Yorkshire Infantry
> My father, mother, brother and myself were in the 1939/45 war in a lesser
and a larger degree. My father and older brother voluntered from the onset
of the fray in the far East.
> I hear and read of many other British units but nothing of the K.O.Y.L.I.
regiment.One of my Uncles ,and much later myself would visit them for a
couple of rounds in the boxing ring. They would teach me a thing or two then
do a few rounds.Some made up a decent bunch. From information obtained in
books written on the war in the Tenesserim sector ( south Burma ), the
Japanese gave them a terrific beating. Since I had a few friends amongst
them, I'm wondering what account they gave of themselves. My older brother,
'Bunker ' Soord who was then in the Artillary, Burma Aux. Force, informed me
that they kept heedlessly charging the 'enemy' time and again , sustaining
heavy losses. He was struck by their bravery.
> Could someone enlighten me as to where I might obtain a book mentioning
> With Regards.
> Keith Soord. A much cooler Perth. W.A.
> ' A friend is one before whom I may think aloud.' Einstein
> ==== INDIA Mailing List ====
> For a list of LDS microfilm numbers of OIOC church records
> in British India, see the Churches page at :
Since I've been so far behind in my correspondence to yourselves and because I have a whole list of 'Irelands' whom the Caldecourts married into, I thought this approach would be preferable. I did have a go yesterday with dismal failure . Hope I have better luck this time.
Here is the list posted to me:
a) Mrs. Charlotte Ireland
born1842, Calcutta, W.bengal, India.
relatives: Mrs. B. Francis.
b) Mr.G. Ireland
c) Mrs. Adelaide Ireland
<chunar>, W. Bengal. India
Father: Thomas Ireland; Mother: Ann
d) Adelaide Eveline Ireland
<bahraich>, Uttar Pradesh, India.
Father: William Ireland; Mother :Eliza Ireland
e) Charles George Ireland.
Vizianagram, Andhra Pradesh, India.
Father: Charles Ireland; Mother :Frances Sarah Pickering
f) Fanny Pickering Ireland.
born:3/4/1840; Jubbulpore, W. Bengal.
Father : Charles Ireland; Mother: Frances Sarah Pickering.
g) Mrs. Bessie Henrietta Ireland.
<rangoon>, W. Bengal, India.
Father; William Decourcy Ireland; Mother;
h)Samuel Gardiner Decourcy Ireland.
<rangoon, W. Bengal. India.
Father :William Decourcy Ireland; Mother Mary Kirkwood.
i) William Ireland,
Spouse: Ann D'Rosar.
Married1/5/1774 at Bombay, Maharashtra. India.
Question.... What is<chunar> and < bahraich > ?
Another lady has promised to supply me with more Irelands, who were born in England and asked for the above info.. Hope I strike oil before long for all our sakes !!!
Happy reading !
Chow, and God bless.
Trust everyone is in the best of health. I don't know if I've told you b ut the other day, the Cancer Specialist informed that all test results show that I'm cured of Cancer. He graceously added,' Well Mr.. Soord, we have done this together.' Not to be outdone I added,' 60% to you doctor, and 40% to you.. if I may'. He a Scottish chap and very thorough; I chose him from all the other specialists, following him from another hospital. It's paid off thank heavens. I'm not going overboard because of what I've read about my cancer ( lymphomia), ... it can rear it's nasty head any time. I've now got to rid myself of diabeties. Strange that D follows C . Any other diseases that follows D ?
Can any of you remember the name of that famous Indian Philosopher of many moons ago ? Would be Tangor ? or something like that.
< ksoord @wa1.quik.com.au
'A friend is one before whom I may think aloud'..... EMERSON.
I'm sorry, I don't have any info for you re: Capt. Wm.Warwick but I do have a question or 2.
My gr.gr.grandfather John Horatio Nelson Bowman (what can I say!) , was an artificer, at first at the Ordnance depot, Madras and later at Moulmein, Burma. My understanding is that this was for the making of gun carriages etc. for ships or for installation at Forts. He married in 1836 in Calcutta and his 3 children were born in Moulmein,1838 to 1843. Would they have lived in a Cantonment there or in the town.? Did working in the Ordnance Dept. mean that he was connected with the army or navy or would he have been a civilian artisan. ? It could also mean that he was employed by shipbuilders.like your Capt. Warwick. Were there any kind of records ?
No trouble, my pleasure, it is nice to be able to put some input into the list for a change. I am unable to help anyone with " look ups" at the OIOC, ( for personal reasons I am unable to get to London.) I have had so much help myself, it is nice to have the chance to do something for someone else..
Having said all that I am so sorry that I cannot be of as much help as I would have liked. The young Lady from The Louis Mountbatten Library phoned today to say that she was unable to find any connection between Forts in Sandown and India, she did however find the following in a book by Percy Stone called "Old Sandown. ".... Sandown Fort. Last Captain was William Wynn, an Eccentric. Mended his own clothes.. did his own marketing, although his daughter did the housekeeping. would often call on locals for a chat and cup of coffee. Died in the Fort Born 1770 died 1810.
In another book Modern English Biography by Fred Boase 1965 There is a William Wynn who was Captain of Independent Co Invalids Plymouth 1881. and this as she said doesn';t make sense it is almost as though the two Wynn's have been mixed up. It goes on to say that he retired in 1803. but on the 2nd of May 1810 he was knighted at by the Queen at Kew Palace, made a Major in 1854 died in 1855 :
I know this doesn't answer your question what has the Fort at Sandown to do with India, it has been suggested that maybe you would like to write to the County Records Newport. 26 Hillside, Newport Isle of Wight. PO30 2 EB. asking them for help and giving what information you have. They apparently have records going back to the ark almost.
If you want more info:- on the William Wynn's all I can suggest is that I try and get the books from my local library, and photo-copy the relevant pages and send them to you by snail Mail or try and find someone with a scanner..
I have posted this on the list( for what it is worth), as you suggested, just in case anyone else is researching Whynns on the Isle of Wight etc., Sorry not to be of more help. I am pleased to see you have had probable better help from other listers.
IF I can be of further " help," please don't hesitate to get in touch.
My Grandfather, Henry William COOK #3633 was a member of the R.H.A. in Agra
and Kyber Pass in 1896 and later R.F.A. He served in India for 12 years, 84
days, then S. Africa for 5 years. He married Ada Elizabeth DIGANCE at
Wesleyan Church, Colaba Causeway. Bombay on May 15, 1903. At that time he
was a Bombadier stationed at Meerut with the 24th Field Battery RFA. On
Oct. 25, 1905 their son Henry William John was born at Jhansi. The birth
certificate was signed by Bt. Lt. Col. C.G. HENSHAW, commdg. the 7th Battery
This info may be of some value to anyone compiling military history. I have
several pictures of my Grandfather in uniform, one standing on guard at Taj
Mahal, 1896 and another of same date mounted with horse drawn gun battery
heading up Kyber Pass. I would be pleased to share these pictures with
anyone interested and likewise if anyone has similar pictures they could
share with me.
Does anyone have a relative that might have served with my Grandfather in
Ed Cook, Edmonton Alberta Canada
HAPPY CANADA DAY!
Many thanks for your suggestion. I have managed to find F.W.M. again and have tried all the links but so far can't get any further information on him. I found quite a few Meppens living (and dead) in Idaho and various other parts of the States but not Fred. Will keep trying.
sun 1 july 2001
regarding eccentricity, I hope you won't mind my
commenting on your posting ? Caligula's horse
being appointed Consul was - in the light of
knowing Caligula - a horror. But, in itself,
definitely eccentric. Had Caligula done nothing
else but that, people would have laughed
I wonder - following your comment :
quote ......"The very idea of appointing
young public-schoolboys with very limited
experience of their social inferiors in their own
home communities, to be governors (in all but
name)" ..... unquote
whether you include among these the desperately
lonely and hard-worked men, who tried hard to
overcome the effects of famine and were conned by
self-seeking native rulers into fighting their
local quarrels, by promises of military payment
which often didnt materialise - as a result of
which the EIC didn't feel money had to be sent
out, not knowing for months that the troops were
living on a shoestring ? These troops included
many locals. Not all the officers became
zamindars, but in fact the rulers sometimes opted
for issuing landgrants precisely because they
didn't want to honour their financial
commitments. It was this, in part, which led to
the corruption of EIC officers trading 'within'
India especially once they had access to
landholdings, which they were not allowed to do
by the EIC, as they were only allowed to trade
out of India, to countries that did not trade
with the EIC. Trading within India allowed EIC
officers to claim, falsely, exemption to the EIC
taxes that locals had to pay, and led to much
resentment and their subsequent enrichment. But
I can't disregard the huge responsibilities that
some of those young men discharged, to the very
best of their ability. It was the EIC who
outlawed the custom of 'sati', but the men on the
ground who enforced it and had instigated its
enactment. Now there is something I wouldn't
call 'eccentric'. Not all customs are worthy of
Sorry, just had to put in a good word for some of
our ancestors ! :-) There were some rotten
apples in the basket, obviously; but some which
ended up providing the huge apple farms which
became a good source of revenue for the local
communities. If you see what I mean !
My soap box is tottering - apologies ! and
regards to all,
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
Conductors and Sub Conductors are terms used for Warrant Officers in the
Ordnance and Munitions supply parts of the Army, both Regular and H.E.I.C
varieties.Conductors still exist in Ordnance to this day
BUT they were much more numerous in the Commissariat Branches of the HEIC
Army. So much so that we who are descendants of some of them have
christened it the "Commissariat Mafia" because of the inter- marriage and
relationships between them. They were responsible for the supply of all of
the items needed by an Army. Some dealt with the immediate day to day
things while others ran Farms and Horse Ranches or brought in the vast
quantity of fodder required by a pre-mechanized force.
After the re organisation of the Army around 1880 most came under the title
of "Supply & Transport"and around the time of the First World War this too
was absorbed in the Service Corps or similar.
These Officers were better paid than equivalent ranks and held responsible
posts. Advancement was such that a former private could end up as a
Commissary General = an Honorary Colonel. I have 4 such men in my Tree. A
Conductor, An Ensign/Assistant Commissary and 2 Captain/Commissaries and Oh
yes - They were all Irish !!
Peter Rogers, in Suffolk UK whose Father had the possibly eccentric ability
to predict the sex of unborn children or at least thats what some of his
workers thought, probably based on one rash guess! They would bring in
their wives- both current and future(!) so that they could feel assured
that they would sire Boy children!!!! After a fair run Pop was relieved to
be posted away to Burma where he learnt to love elephants, but that's
1. I have a cousin whose families include a Captain NORFOR, of the EIC in Madras, born around 1780, who died at Dover aged 92. His son Benjamin was also in India (somewhere!) and married there, and had 13 children, according to family notes. One of the Captain's daughters (unidentified) married a John BOILEAU at Eastbourne, who was a judge in India at 6000 pds a year, and a cousin to Sir John Boileau of Norfolk. A second daughter, Anne, married a Captain MACARTHY in the Army who ended up working for Customs in Brisbane, Australia.
Pretty thin pickings, there, but it may ring a bell with someone on the List.
2. In the India Office are the Cadet papers (L/MIL/9/149 page 261) of a William Henry ATKINSON of the Artillery Engineer Seminary - examined and passed 29.1.1823. He was baptised at "Christ Church, Surry" (where is Christ Church, by the way?) on 24.4.1807. His parents were William Atkinson, Esq, Merchant, and Eleanor. "My father is in the mercantile line residing at 5 Bennet St, Blackfriars." He was educated at Mr STANDEN's School. Health Certificate signed by ... BROWN, Surgeon, Stanford Arcade, Christ Church, Surrey. [I copied this information thinking this chap was my Henry William Atkinson, but he wasn't.]
On page 246 of the same ledger were the papers of Charles GRAHAM, for the Bengal Infantry. "My late father was a commander in the Hon Company's Service; his last ship was the Bombay. My mother resides at Barnstaple, Devon." The parents were Charles and Jane. He was recommended by a john SHORE; educated at Rev Mr HARRISON's, Croydon. Baptized St Pancras 8.2.1806, born 11.12.1805.
3. A cousin of mine, Capt W N C (Cecil) Barlow was in the 2/32 Sikh Pioneers at the time of his marriage in 1929. His groomsman was Lt BYLES, of the same Regt. (Does 2/32 mean the Second Battalion of the 32nd Regt?).
I hope those will be useful to someone.
4. A question. I have seen a mock certificate dated about 1913 that says
"Lt-Colonel A Cadell and the Officers of the 38th Dogras
Captain D H K Hunter, RFA
will consider himself an Honorary Member of their Mess
during his stay in Malakand"
What was that all about, and who were the Dogras? The Hunter family is supposed to have had some commercial interest in Rawalpindi. Can any Lister help?
This is my first inquiry of the list, so please bear with me.
I am researching a Captain William Warwick, who acquired timber interests in
Moulmein sometime after the British took the Tenasserim coast in 1826. He
built a shipbuilding yard at Natmaw in Bilugyun Island at the mouth of the
Salween River, where a number of vessels of increasing size were between in
1830 and well into the 1840s.
This is the extent of my knowledge of Captain Warwick. Can anyone tell me
anything further about who he was, or direct me to other avenues of
research? Information about shipbuilding in the vicinity of Moulmein during
the 1830s and 40s would also be welcome.
Someone on the list recently mentioned the name MAGNIAC. The list of senior merchants in the Bengal Directory for 1826 includes:
"Lane? Magniac, Collector of Dacca, 12th September 1822 and Deputy Collector of Customs at ditto and Supt of Eastern Salt Chowkeia? 18th Aug 1825."
Unfortunatly I only have a few poor quality photocopies of some of the pages of this directory.
John Graham, member of Council, married Mary Shewin (or Shewen) in Calcutta
in 1762. Other children I know of were:
Mary Helen, b1763
Eliza Rebekah, b1774
George Edward, b1774
I would be interested to hear if anyone knows of any other relatives or
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Barlow" <barlow(a)candw.ky>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 1:30 AM
Subject: [India-L] Pasley, Graham
"Strays" in the Register of Lincoln's Inn (London), noted by me last month:
1784 George PASLEY, son of Gilbert Pasley of Madras, Esq
1787 William GRAHAM, second son of the late John Graham, Supreme Council,
==== INDIA Mailing List ====
There's lot's of interesting browsing in Todd Mill's
collection of internet links for military in India at:
Quite a while ago, in my efforts to find anyone with the MEPPEN name I visited quite a few websites. On one of them I came up with the following:
WW1 Civilian Draft Registrations
For some reason I didn't follow this up at the time and don't have the website where I found it. Can anyone enlighten me as to how I can find out more about this gentleman?
Frederick Meppen is a family name and in fact one Frederick Meppen was an engineer in India in the 1800's
and constructed various buildings and bridges. He also constructed a cart road in the Western Ghats from a village called Bagaloor through several estates to his own coffee estate known as the Goomenkhan Estate. Apparently the Government then carried the road through to a large Hindu temple at Kalsa.
However I have no record of a family member emigrating to the States
Anyone help please?
So many of you have been so kind and sent me the a copy of the original letter from Tree Tops Overseas
I THINK I have thanked each one of you personally, but just in case I have missed anyone. ( Due to being a bit delete happy) my mail box was getting somewhat full. A Very Big THANK YOU. I very much appreciate the help.
Below is an extract from Camp Mhow, 1844..from my gr g'father( Richard Harte Keatinge) to his sister in Ireland ..hair became very "fashionable" in mid 19th century..Women believed it was one of their great sexual attractions ...men should desire to get a lock ( or see their ankles, perhaps?) and bracelets and other ornaments were made from hair..I have a hair bracelet ,made from the hair... (plaited, gold clasp etc. with inscription on the back, 1855)...from a child who died aged 4, in Bombay.Of course it is not the sort of bracelet I have ever worn , but interesting for it's history... Patricia.
we have had a play----- ----- --- of "Charlotte" in the " Mock Doctor".There was scarcely anything to say but the fun was in getting dressed. Some of the ladies lent me caps, others collars, and another tresses. The last were lent me by a lady Mrs Wilson whom I cannot bear, and who is now anything but pleased with me for the way I treated her. After the play was over she told me the hair I had worn was her own and had been cut off when she was ill and particularly requested that I would not let any of the gentlemen cut locks from it. Much to her disappointment however I sent them back untouched and did not even keep a hair for myself. I shall never be forgiven ! The most amusing part of it was that I had my face all powdered over with pink chalk to keep my whiskers from being seen and whenever I laughed it ran off making a beautifull waterfall, or rather a dust fall down the front of my (dress?).......
This message is for Pamela Stockhall whose email address I've lost -
I did not come across your Capt. Daniel BUNN. But in the 1811 E.I.Co.
List there is mention of an Edward Thomas BUNN, Purser of the "Carnatic"
on a voyage to Madras and Bengal.
And in the 1821 EIC List there is mentioned G.BUNN, Master of the
"Countess of Harcourt", a licensed Private Ship, to Bombay, Fort
St.George, Fort William, P.o.W.Island and Bencoolen.
Conductors and Sub-Conductors are Warrant Officers Class 1 in the Army
Ordnance Corps, and are the basically the most senior technical storemen in
Ed in Cumbria/UK
> > William's occupation appears to be Sub Conductor - anyone
> > got any idea what this could be - it is indistinct also.
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> > Ivan Gregory
> > ==== INDIA Mailing List ====
> > There's lot's of interesting browsing in Todd Mill's
> > collection of internet links for military in India at:
> > http://www.regiments.org/milhist/southasia/india.htm
> ==== INDIA Mailing List ====
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