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With trembling fingers (after an abrupt end to a previous similar topic) we add
to the discussion an article we read recently in our Raj Library.
We found it interesting and hope some of you do to. So does the author in his
last sentence although he writes the sentiment better than we do.
The original item is 9 pages of print but this is an extract relating to
From Selections from Calcutta Gazettes Vol. III Editorial .
This extract is taken from The 27th September 1804, Supplement to The Calcutta
Gazette [From the Monthly Review for February 1804.
In the thesis of Mr.Bayley, delivered in Hindoostanee, he shows that this
language is the most useful of all those which are spoken in India:-
It is compounded of the Arabic, Persian -and Sanskrit, or Bhalzha, which last
appears to have been in former ages. the current language . of Hindoostan.
Owing in some measure to the intercourse of the merchants of Arabia with this
country, but more particularly to. the frequent invasions of it by the
Moosulmans, and their ultimate settlement in it, a considerable number of
Arabic and Persian words became engrafted on the original language of the
natives and out of this mixture arose a new language, the Hindoostanee., like a
modern superstructure on an ancient foundation.
By degrees it assumed its present appearance and estimation; and the Court of
Delhi made choice of it, as the medium in all affairs depending on colloquial
intercourse. Hence its influence gradually spread abroad so widely, that
it' became universally used in the Courts of the Moosulman princes. Many of the
Native inhabitants also grew familiarized to it, and used it in all concerns,
the validity of which did not depend upon written documents."
This language is divisible into three distinct dialects:-
In the first, or pristine dialect, there is a smaller admixture of foreign
words; hence this is more nearly related to the original dialects of the
In the second, or familiar dialect, the number of foreign words bears nearly an
equal proportion to the original ones.
In the third, or court dialect, Arabian and Persian words are by far the- most
In the whole of the vast country of Hindoostan, scarce any Moosulman will be
found, who does not understand and speak the Hindoostanee.
Every Hindoo also of any distinction, or who has the least connection either
with the Moosulman or the British Government, is, according to his situation,
acquainted, more or less. with this language.
It is moreover the general medium by which many persons of various foreign
nations settled in Hindoostan communicate their wants and ideas to each other.
Of the truth of this indeed, we ourselves are an evidence, as are the
Portuguese, Dutch, French, Danes, Arabs, Turks, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians,
Persians, Moghuls, and Chinese.
In almost all the armies of India, this appears to be the universally used
language, oven though many of the individuals composing em be better acquainted
with the dialects peculiar to their respective
Nearly from Cape Comorin to Cabool, a country about 2000 miles in length, and
1,400 in breadth within the Ganges, few persons will be found in any large
villages or towns which have over been conquered or much frequented by
Moosulmans, who are not sufficiently conversant in the Hindoostanee - and in
many places beyond the Ganges, this language is current and familiar."
In dismissing this truly acceptable publication, we shall only add that our
curious readers will derive from its perusal very great pleasure and
Audrey & Douglas Augier
Here's some good news! There's an excellent site on
Hindi/Urdu on the web; URL -
I was guided here by the kind courtesy of Tony and
So all you old India hands and new afficionados visit
and get enlightened;you have nothing to lose but your
Thumbs up from Mandeep in rainy but humid Chandigarh!
PS- Listers,do you think I'll get 'sent away' for a
month this time? :-)
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
I am a newcomer to this list.....my connection with India is through my
3X greatgrandfather Dr James ORTON, who was at one time President of the
Bombay Medical Board, but who died in Cheltenham, England in 1857.
His brother, by the name of Reginald ORTON, was also a doctor, and I
think - but have not yet proved - that he also served in India with the
East India Company. Reginald Orton was the author of a book on the
Epidemic of Cholera in India during the 1830s.
I have only recently come across the PRO pilot scheme for the National
Archival Network, and found that some archives of the India Office
Records are included in this scheme. Reference was made to the fact
that the Madras Government had purchased 100 copies of the Reginald
Those interested should go to this site:
Just enter the family surname associated with India, and you too may be
Nancy McLaughlin (in Christchurch, NZ)
- researching ORTON, HENNELL, SETON in India.
Could someone in India please reply to the following direct.
I would like to know about good boarding schools in India along with their rating
and ofcourse about their activities. I would like to know if there is a specific site
where I can get this info. I would really appreciate it if you could help on this topic
You can contact us on e-mail : mailto:email@example.com samiricha(a)vsnl.net
Thanking you for your trouble taken.
Richa & Samir
First of all, thanks to all who have helped with my queries about Army Schoolmistresses and Education Corps,it has all been helpful and interesting.
Now I would be grateful for info from Valmay Young about the grave of Mary Spears in the above cemetery.
I am also searching, unsuccessfully, for info about Joseph Spears, who died when still a child, but we have no idea where or when. The family as far as we know were in Shwebo, Mussouri and Jhansi but there are gaps.
Thanks to all.
Hobson Jobson, page 562, has half a page on Matross, which it defines as "An inferior class of soldier in the Artillery". We have found the title/rank mentioned in Bengal around 1780/1790.
Regards to all.
I am looking for a William Stevens Born approx 1851 in Kent as to where in
Kent I am not sure but I have been told he called himself a 'Man of Kent'
and not a Kentish Man. He married Margaret O'Dell or Lyons in about 1877.
They had 13 children many if not all born in India Calcutta) while he was
serving in the Army (The Royal Artillery). They returned to Kent in about
1902 William worked at Chequertree farm in Appledore, later moved to
Woodbine Cottage Westerham and retired to Gravesend. Can any one help?
I have brought up some of the links given on my pondicherry website
(that were obsolete) to date:
The website of the the French "Compagnie des Indes" is worth a visit
(The site is only in French) :
The URL of the Calcutta cemetery is obsolete but will be available again
Does anyone know of the marriage of
Ellen Victoria Harwood to Arthur/Alfred W. Bowen in Calcutta around 1924?
They had children - Victoria Bowen in Calcutta on 29.9.1925 and David Bowen
about 1930. Alfred/Arthur was 59 at the time of Victoria's birth
Arthur/Alfred W. Bowen was Deputy Dock Master in Calcutta in 1925 and later
moved to Jersey, Channel Islands. Seemingly he must have retired about then.
Does anyone know of a Cyclone that caused the death of my ancestor.
in 1887 whilst commanding a ship on the Hooghly river.????
please take a look at the photo Album pg 2. on my web site,
I have disciphered most of it but would like to put it to the list , maybe someone can read or enhance the Epitaph.
I have searched Hailesbury College at Auckland Public Library, finding Sir Hugh Inglis as one of the Directors. 1784 -1812.and deputy Chairman 1811, and 1812....I am confused, (and probably you Tony will be able to help me sort this out.)..was this Sir Hugh Inglis one of the family from Kingsmill, Inverness. I have a Hugh Inglis,(Inverness) marrying ( 2nd wife) Catherine McIntosh in 1746...then again I have the 1881 British Census, of Hugh Inglis. of Kingsmill, Inverness, aged 79. I do not believe that dates of these two Hugh I have found, could be correct for Sir Hugh Inglis of Hailesbury College. Having stated this, I also have to admit that I have "lost" a generation because the names of two children born in 1748 & 1749, to Hugh Inglis and spouse Catherine McIntosh. were not recorded in full on LDS film. 0990667..Bap. Inverness 1717-1779. It just stated( a child was born.to Hugh Inglis and his spouse Catherine McIntosh).. and no other details in each instance.!!!! Did they all go off for a" wee drop" and forget to write the details?
Thanks for any help.....Patricia.
Thanks to all those who replied with a definition of Matross - however,
there seems to be some difference of opinion as to the individual's
standing, vis a vis other ranks .....
Someone suggested it was "lower than a private" (didn't know this was
possible); Ed said the term went out of use in 1783 when it was redesignated
However Peter Bailey in relates it specifically to Madras Artillery, which
was the context I wanted:
> A 'Matross' was a junior Gunner or, in more modern parlance, 'Gunner's
> It was a rank used (at least in Madras) prior to the re-organization of
> Artillery in Madras in 1824.
So - the next question is, in this context - is it equivalent to the lowest
rank possible, i.e. Private in about 1803? If a man in the Rgt of
Artillery had been designated 'Corporal' and was subsequently 'Matross' was
this a step up or down?
We are just starting out on this adventure of searching via email.
We are looking for a Shwe Kyaw born in 1865 married first husband in abt
1883 then remarried a Mr Hilbert in abt1889 she died in abt 1887 area
Rangoon, Bengal,Burma?. She is the grandmother of our friend Rodney Hilbert
who is searching for her.
Thank you Ruthje
Thanks to LSD films I have definitely found another family branch.....name CHITTY...Lieut. CHARLES CHITTY married in, Bombay,1855, my great Aunt, HELEN ALVES JAMESON. I have been able to find Helen and their children in the 1881 Census, ie son.Charles W. Chitty, age 21 residing (studying ?) at King's college, Cambridge..He is later found in LDS film: 1884, B.A.,B.L., Chief Justice Small Court Bombay.Helen and other(5) children were residing in Clifton, Gloucester, England.( Have details).They seemed to have been born various places, i.e. around India , Suez, and England ...where is father in 1881?
Any further info of CHITTY connections will be much appreciated....Thanks Patricia...nearly spring.. Auckland.
The WATSONs you sent me are not my wife's. However, the information
stimulated my mother-in-law to remember the names of my wife's great
grandfather, which was Henry WATSON. Henry was married to a Burmese
lady whose name she can't remember. Henry had at least five children,
most of whom are remembered by their nicknames. Cecilia, my wife's
grandmother was one, the others were Matty (Mathilda?), Sunny, Joe
(Joseph?) and Allie (Alexander?).
Is there any possible connection between these WATSONs and yours?
255 McClellan Road, Nepean ON K2H 8N7, Canada
tel: (613) 828-3781 fax: (613) 728-1933
I don't do .INI, .BAT, or .SYS files. I don't assign apps to files--
I don't configure peripherals or networks before using them--
I have a computer to do all that--
I Have a Mac
I'm looking for information on these people
If you can help, please contact me
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
My father Andrew Bryce Bell was stationed in India (don't know where yet), with one of the Scottish regiments. He was there 6 years. He married an Indian lady during that time. When he returned to Scotland, he married my mother.
I would like to find out who this lady is, as there might be siblings there of mine. My Dad left India in 1946 or 1947. I have no idea where to start looking. Thank you.
Patricia Iseke wrote:
> I have searched Hailesbury College at Auckland Public Library, finding Sir Hugh Inglis as one of the Directors. 1784 -1812.and deputy Chairman 1811, and 1812....I am confused, (and probably you Tony will be able to help me sort this out.)..was this Sir Hugh Inglis one of the family from Kingsmill, Inverness. I have a Hugh Inglis,(Inverness) marrying ( 2nd wife) Catherine McIntosh in 1746...then again I have the 1881 British Census, of Hugh Inglis. of Kingsmill, Inverness, aged 79. I do not believe that dates of these two Hugh I have found, could be correct for Sir Hugh Inglis of Hailesbury College. Having stated this, I also have to admit that I have "lost" a generation because the names of two children born in 1748 & 1749, to Hugh Inglis and spouse Catherine McIntosh. were not recorded in full on LDS film. 0990667..Bap. Inverness 1717-1779. It just stated( a child was born.to Hugh Inglis and his spouse Catherine McIntosh).. and no other details in each instance.!!
> !!! Did they all go off for a" wee drop" and forget to write the details?
> Thanks for any help.....Patricia.
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