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Is there anybody familiar with the surname ABID. Some of the Abids changed
the surname to ABID EVANS.
One member of the family worked on the Nuremberg Trials.
The ABIDS were very wealthy merchants who ended up being asked to go to
Hyderabad by the Nizam of Hyderabad. (I have old newspapers with an
article on this event).
My gggrandmother CONDELL/COLLINS is still a bit of a mystery but does
anyone know if there is a symbolic meaning to a large-headed snake emerging
from an egg? She had this rather unusual subject as a brooch and although
it was made in London, it may have meant something more to her as a
reference to her Indian ancestry!!!
Dear Soray and friends on India list,
> Complete genealogy beginner would like clues, if anyone has the time or inclination
The first place to start Soray, would be on Cathy Days web-site.
Unfortunately though, those of us who use an internet browser to 'surf'
the internet, automatically assume everyone else does also. Are you able
to access web pages on the internet?
If so start by with:
A list of LDS microfilm numbers of OIOC church records in British India.
Also on every Email you receive from the list, look for helpful
tag-lines at the end of each Email that may lead you to other useful
Do you have access to looking up film records in an LDS Family History
Centre, in your own or a nearby community.? Again those of us who are
fortunate to have one in our community sometimes forget that many people
>..., as to the parentage of one Charles Mornington-West, b. Madras > late 19th century....
We have recently been performing look-ups for many list members on some
Bengal Presidency films. Of course you will need to access the films
for the Madras Presidency in your case.
For you, 'RDMW', and any list members who would like any look-ups on the
following films, we hope will arrive in about 3 weeks, we shall try and
accommodate you on a first come basis.
MADRAS Presidency _INDEX_ Films:
Baptisms 1872-1888 film # 0498579
Marriages 1801-1850 film # 0498586
Marriages 1871-1898 film # 0498588
Remember, these are Index ONLY films, and do not contain information on
anything other than the names of the primary individual, and a reference
to take you to the actual source film where you can get more complete
Also, once you have the year, volume # and folio # as Cathy Day explains
on the web pages mentioned above (but for those of you who do not have
access to web browsers and the internet, and therefore Cathy Day's site
this will be new to you) you can submit them to LDS Salt Lake City for
photocopies of the entries. This will cost $2 U.S. for upto 8 copies,
but you will have to submit this through your local LDS centre, where
they have a form to use to order them. Hope this makes sense, we don't
know if you have to send them in yourself or whether the local centre
will mail them for you.
Perhaps another list member will care to comment on this. We are new to
this ourselves and have only been on the list since May or June and
thanks to everyone on the list we are starting to get a little knowledge
and some successes.
Hope this helps, and all the best,
Gordon and Evelyn.
ALLEN, ANDERSON, BROOKMAN, COFFEY, HAIMES, HORRICKS,
INGLIS, JOHNSTON, KING, LONG, STOKES (all in India)
COFFEY (in Cork, Ireland)
ASHCROFT (Cheshire, Yorkshire); PLUMB (Suffolk, Yorkshire)
Herefordshire - 20 mile radius of Bromyard:
PALMER, POTTER, ROGERS, SMITH, TOM(P)KINS
Would be grateful to know if anyone has the address of St. John's Church in
Calcutta and also how to contact them for a copy of a marriage document:
Henry Shaw Wyllie & Adeline Emily Cobb 02 March 1872 (Rev. W.C. Bromshead).
Bob Foran - Connecticut, USA
Complete genealogy beginner would like clues, if anyone has the time or inclination, as to the parentage of one Charles Mornington-West, b. Madras late 19th century. sorry, no more information at this time. Thankyou. RDMW.
All Army pensioners were 'Chelsea Pensioners' and were either 'in'
pensioners (living in the Hospital at Chelsea) or 'out' pensioners
living elsewhere. My great grandfather for example left the 93rd
Highlanders as a pensioner and lived in Ayr, where has pension was paid.
I presume that those who ended their service in India perhaps had the
opportunity of remaining there rather than coming back to the UK.
Just for the record, there was a similar home for army pensioners in
Ireland, at Kilmainin near Dublin.
Quite simple really!
All British soldiers discharged to pension in this era were either Chelsea
or Killmainham pensioners (the latter being the Irish equivalent). If the
soldier lived at the hospital in Chelsea Barracks, London, he was classed as
an 'in pensioner', all others were 'out pensioners'. Besides the financial
reward, being a Chelsea pensioner also enabled the ex-soldier to get medical
The pension was paid no matter where the man lived, within the UK the
records for these payments to out pensioners still survive for 1842-1862 in
WO 22. As the quality of life in India was quite good, a lot of men chose to
As for the 2nd dresser, if he was pensioned it would be by the HEIC, the
records of which are at the OIOC.
These days the Chelsea pensioners at the Barracks normally have to come
under the following rules:-
1. Must be unmarried
2. Must have exemplary conduct sheets
3. Must have completed full army career
From: Sylvia Murphy <sylcec(a)synflux.com.au>
To: INDIA-L(a)rootsweb.com <INDIA-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: 31 October 1999 11:43
Subject: Re: Chelsea Pensions
>Joan Birtles' question below interested me because of a curiosity noticed
>Madras Vol.15 which I have just finished browsing:
>>Could anyone tell me please if a 'pensioned ' 1st dresser in the Nizam
>>Service in 1844 would be eligible for a Chelsea Pension.
>I noticed a number of marriages of men described as apparently being
>Pensioners - the following is an example which I took down: (& who knows,
>but it may be of use to someone!)
>Madras Vol.15, p.238
>Cuddalore, 7th May 1833
>George HALL, widower, private out(?*) Pensioner of Chelsea Hospital and
>Ann FRENCH, spinster, an Indo-Briton were married by Banns in the Mission
>Church at the chaplaincy of Cuddalore with teh consent of the officer
>commanding the general (Pension) Depot this day by me, Sig. John Halliwell,
>Witnesses: A Garetty, S Garetty, G Plover, C Plover
>(?*) - I'm really not sure of this word, which appeared in most of the
>entries that I glanced through, but the best I could make of it was "out".
>Have also looked through my recent purchases of various Family History Mags
>as thought there had been an article on Chelsea Pensioners recently, but
>can't find it - maybe someone else can help Joan on this one - but please
>tell the list, what were Chelsea Pensioners doing in India?????
>>From: INDIA-D-request(a)rootsweb.com <INDIA-D-request(a)rootsweb.com>
>>To: INDIA-D(a)rootsweb.com <INDIA-D(a)rootsweb.com>
>>Date: Sunday, 31 October 1999 7:26
>>Subject: INDIA-D Digest V99 #286
>>==== INDIA Mailing List ====
>>For a list of professional researchers who specialise in
>>India and/or military records, see the webpage at :
>==== INDIA Mailing List ====
>Rootsweb's archives of messages for this list can be found at:
There is a book by DAVID ASCOLI called A VILLAGE IN CHELSEA, an informal
account of the Royal Hospital. Published in 1974 ISBN 0 86002 037 1 , I
picked it up, recently, in a second hand bookshop.It is "Dedicated with
pride and affection to the old gentlemen themselves, the In-Pensioners of
the Royal Hospital".
It is full of information & makes a good read. My relative,General Sir
Frank Simpson, was the Governor of the Royal Hospital Chelsea from 1961
Joan Birtles' question below interested me because of a curiosity noticed in
Madras Vol.15 which I have just finished browsing:
>Could anyone tell me please if a 'pensioned ' 1st dresser in the Nizam
>Service in 1844 would be eligible for a Chelsea Pension.
I noticed a number of marriages of men described as apparently being Chelsea
Pensioners - the following is an example which I took down: (& who knows,
but it may be of use to someone!)
Madras Vol.15, p.238
Cuddalore, 7th May 1833
George HALL, widower, private out(?*) Pensioner of Chelsea Hospital and Mary
Ann FRENCH, spinster, an Indo-Briton were married by Banns in the Mission
Church at the chaplaincy of Cuddalore with teh consent of the officer
commanding the general (Pension) Depot this day by me, Sig. John Halliwell,
Witnesses: A Garetty, S Garetty, G Plover, C Plover
(?*) - I'm really not sure of this word, which appeared in most of the
entries that I glanced through, but the best I could make of it was "out".
Have also looked through my recent purchases of various Family History Mags
as thought there had been an article on Chelsea Pensioners recently, but
can't find it - maybe someone else can help Joan on this one - but please
tell the list, what were Chelsea Pensioners doing in India?????
>From: INDIA-D-request(a)rootsweb.com <INDIA-D-request(a)rootsweb.com>
>To: INDIA-D(a)rootsweb.com <INDIA-D(a)rootsweb.com>
>Date: Sunday, 31 October 1999 7:26
>Subject: INDIA-D Digest V99 #286
>==== INDIA Mailing List ====
>For a list of professional researchers who specialise in
>India and/or military records, see the webpage at :
Could anyone tell me please if a 'pensioned ' 1st dresser in the Nizam
Service in 1844 would be eligible for a Chelsea Pension.
From: INDIA-D-request(a)rootsweb.com <INDIA-D-request(a)rootsweb.com>
To: INDIA-D(a)rootsweb.com <INDIA-D(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Sunday, 31 October 1999 7:26
Subject: INDIA-D Digest V99 #286
William wrote that
>There was nothing really spectacular between 1815 (Waterloo) and the
>Crimean War as far as the British Army was concerned! Remembering
>that the English did not consider colonial wars spectacular [snip]
>The only source of fighting was the constant expansion of HEIC
>in India -
When writing that the 20th Regiment did nothing 'particularly
spectacular' between 1814 and the Crimean War I meant, simply, that they
didn't see any action. Whatever kudos the English did or didn't award
British regiments for action in minor colonial expeditions, I maintain
that any regiment taking part in the Maharatta wars or the skirmishes
for the Punjab in the 40s etc was doing something eminently noteworthy.
'Spectacular' is a little exaggerated perhaps, but serves my purpose,
and I'm quite sure that my several-times Gt Grandmother would have taken
issue with your view having seen her husband return from
Bhurtpore with a horribly wounded right shoulder !
I'm afraid I can't help Bet Bates with her ancestor, but I can tell her the
C-in-C Madras was William Anson McCleverty, eldest son of the late Maj.Gen.
Sir Robert McCleverty, CB, and his wife Elizabeth, née Maude. He was b. at
Chatham 1806 Feb. 11 and d. at Wrotham near Sevenoaks 1897 Oct. 6 at the
age of 91. He was deputy quartermaster-general in New Zealand 1845-57;
Maj.Gen. commanding the centre division of the Madras Army 1860-65, and
after a brief spell in Kent returned to Madras as C-in-C 1867-71. He was
honorary Col. of the 108th Reg. from 1868 and the 48th Reg. from 1875 until
death. He retired in 1877. He married Anne McGildowny Casement. The
younger son James was a Col. in Mysore; two sons-in-law were Col. John
Ewing of the Madras Artillery and Patrick Montgomerie of the Madras
Well , maybe BRAID means something to me as it was sometimes used as a
shortened name. Their are Braid Hills south of Edinburgh and BRAIDWOOD Farm
at Penicuik. I believe the word meant "twisted". You didn't state your
interest in BRAID nor any time span.
My Scottish ancestors' surname evolved into BRAIDWOOD. There are towns named
BRAIDWOOD in Lanarkshire, Scotland; Illinois, USA; and in New South Wales.
The BRAIDWOOD surname has been carried around the world, but is often
misspelled, abbreviated or had some "nickname" substituted. BRODIE is a
commonly used equivalent. I have located BRAIDWOOD researchers in USA,
Canada, Australia, and of course UK.
I have been lurking on this list trying to decide if it is where I should
ask my question. Since it seems to deal only with persons who served in, or
were born in, India, I had decided I was in the wrong place and would
quietly unsubscribe. But I'll jump in here due to your "BRAID" question and
at the same time state my query below.
My James BRAIDWOOD was at sea, in the employ of the East India Company
sometime between 1848 and 1859. At some time during his 2 years East India
employment he was shipwrecked when a Greek captain deliberately drove the
ship aground at Corunna, Spain. I would like to find information on that
shipwreck which the family tradition says was an East India Ship. Can anyone
tell me how to access records of East India Company of years 1848 to
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Nailer [mailto:Nailer@bigpond.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 7:38 PM
> To: INDIA-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: BRAID
> Does this name mean anything to anyone
> Thanks Peter NAiler Western Australia
> ==== INDIA Mailing List ====
> To cut down on the number of email messages from the
> INDIA List, you might consider changing from LIST
> mode to DIGEST mode
Mary,Kevin and William
Thanks forthe prompt reply about the 37 th foot, unfortuneatly I made a
boo-boo it was the 36th foot from 1860 to 1870. His name was Michael
DURR # 863. he was unattached 1870. He showed up next atttached to
the Bengal Commissariet where he received Afghan medal with Jowackie
bar. I would like any information. Where was the home base of these
regiments, were they made up of several regiments? Any snip of info
will be appreciated.
Thank you for your email with paperclip attachment, but there's no actual
letter/s and I'm not sure what this means. Sorry to be so silly, but
please would you explain the procedure of receiving information on the
DIGEST list. Should I be doing something at my end to unclip the
'attachments' ? I am still finding my way around this 'new world
technology' and have cheerfully joined a course at the U3A which will be of
Yours, feeling thoroughly stupid,
> From: INDIA-D-request(a)rootsweb.com
> To: INDIA-D(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: INDIA-D Digest V99 #286
> Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 7:24 AM
Met a chap in the FHC trying to find out something about a military gent
returning from the Crimea two years after the Crimean war who got
married in Malta.
Any idea where he could go to get Maltese records.
I've had some success with a similar marriage in Greece, using the GRO
Consular Indexes, a set of BDM fiche which cover this period. They are in
the Auckland library and the Turnbull.
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Having lived in Karachi, I can vouch for the 5:00 a.m. and 7:00 p.m. Azaan
(the call to pray) by the mullah in the mosque around the corner from where
I lived. The mosque had 5 or 6 minarets high above and there'd be 4 loud
speakers (north, south, east, west) per minaret. He would chant verses from
the Quran. I remember when my nephew was born, this disturbance would wake
him up and he would cry. He was born during the Indo-Pakistan war, so you
can just imagine his crying, the air raid sirens going off, and the Azaan.
robin volkers wrote:
> Dear Tim de Gruyther, and listers,
> the mosque had complained of the noise, so they had had to stop. Having
> suffered in Agra for several years from the amplified noise emanating
> from a mosque only two hundred yards away, I found this amusing.
> On the subject of the calls to prayer from that same mosque, there was a
> time three years ago when someone, presumably Hindu, would cut off the
> electricity either just before the earliest call (5.30?) or just after
> it had started. As soon as the electricity was put on again, there was a
> furious message sent out from the mosque, and something similar instead
> of the normal calls for the rest of the day.
Written by Christopher Saville
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Researching Alfred Ernest Saville (b. 1868),
John Alexander Saville (c. 1839), Susannah Saville nee Lee (c. 1850),
John George Todd (Lt. Col.), Corps of Engineers, R.A.F. (1914-1918)
ICQ No. 13096805