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For those who might be interested:
The forty fifth South India Reunion is being held at the Cumberland Hotel,
Marble Arch, London W1A 4RF (Tel:+44-171-262-1234), commencing at 11am in
Austen's Bar. Lunch at 1pm in the Carvery. The cost of lunch is GBP17.
For those who have attended the reunions over the last three years will know
that we have included past pupils of the Presentation Convent, Kodaikanal
More information from
Mrs Jane Turner (nee Erskine)
I received a post from Bob Holland in OZ, another unbelievably helpful list
member in the style of RF Taylor of recent acclaim...
" a marriage at Fort William Jan 29th 1802 John de Grayter private in the
1st European Regt and Elizabeth Elones spinster"
Does anyone have any information on the !st European Regiment? Can anyone
confirm that ELONES is a Portugese name, indicating perhaps a Eurasian girl?
Fort William is in Calcutta, I believe?
I am particularly interested in the Dutch connection back to Europe, as my
search can be summarised as the search for the "h" introduced into "de
Gruyther" as an Anglicism. This spelling, for a British minister writing up
the certificate, would be close to the Dutch pronunciation, depending on the
area of Holland, and ignoring the gutteral "G". It can be heard as de
Grayter or de Growter.
Since finding some papers in my father's study in UK, and returning from
leave to find various postings from Bob Holland, I would like to say that I
have discovered around twenty new de Gruyther listings in India. Without
this List I wouldn't have known what I was looking for, or had the help so
far received. John de Grayter remains unconnected, but amazing discoveries
are there to be made.
Tim de Gruyther
There's a good chance that anyone with Burmese ancestors will be
interested in Burmese current affairs.
Since Burma's been a subject of some recent posts to India-L, this
might be a good moment to mention the soc.culture.burma newsgroup.
Definitely not for genealogists (or for the faint-hearted) this ng
is one of the few sources of up-to-the-minute information on events
in Burma available.
List of mural tablets in the EIC Chapel although some of them are now
damaged and some are missing:
Capt. William WORTH 1742
William Clay MOORSON 1844
Rivers DICKENSON 1786
William CURRIE 1781
Philip PERRY 1830
Elizabeth STEWARD 1841
John PERRY 1824
Robert AINSWORTH 1743
John POULTER 1830
Susanna HOOLE 1808
Daniel MAXWELL 1810
Margaret WOOLMORE 1788
Rev. Henry HIGGINSON 1848
George GREEN 1849
Mary PERRY 1843
Elizabeth PERRY 1810
Capt. John BARFOOT 1807
George STEEVENS (correct spelling)1800
I also have computerised transcriptions of all the M.I.s should anybody
want copies. Requests to me personally please rather than clog up the
There were 535 burials at the Chapel between 1654 and 1855 - NO, I'M NOT
going to post them all although I do now have a very broad name index -
only surnames and how often they appear - on computer. A more detailed
transcription will almost certainly follow which will be available on hard
I have posted below a list of those buried in the churchyard.
William CURTIS, gentleman, 1669
Capt.. Robert SINCOCK, 1698
Capt. John BEERE, 1705
Capt. John BROMWELL, 1706
Capt. James SMITH, 1714
Capt. John MAN, 1719
Daniel COPPERFIELD, 1722
Capt. Leonard BROWN, 1722
Capt. Samuel LEWIS, 1728
John OYLES, 1731
Samuel Jones, 1734, Captain, Royal Navy, Anne, his wife, daughter of Capt.
Samuel Jones Esq., 1777, Anne, his first wife, daughter of Sir Biby LAKE,
Susanna, his widow, daughter of Richard MARSH, Esq.
Thomas CARPENTER, 1735
William HASKINS, 1736
George RAWLINS, 1742, Lieutenant in the Navy
Capt. Thomas LANDEFIELD, 1744
Michael GUIGNARD, Surgeon, 1745
Elisha ARMSTRONG, 1746
Capt. George WIGG, 1751
Robert CARTER, 1751
Capt. Mark ORD, 1753
Capt. John FELL, 1754, aged 94
Solomon BAKER, Esq., 1756, who married Katherine TRENWITH
Anne, wife of Henry BIRD, 1757
Mary, wife of Rev. Richard CLARK, 1760
Rev. James RIDLEY, 1765
Rev. Gloster RIDLEY, DD, 1774
Capt. William COATS, 1767
Elias BIRD Esq., of Roehampton, 1767
Capt. Thomas HUNT, 1769
Capt. Thomas SHAW, 1772
Lieutenant Thomas COOKSON, 1772
Capt. Thomas COOKSON, 1775, Royal Navy
Capt. Purser DOWERS, 1777
John SMART, Esq., 1777, Mary his wife, daughter of Richard STAPLETON. 1774
Thomas Smith PANWELL, Esq., 1784, of Tunbridge Wells
Capt. Isaac HILL, 1785
Anne, relict (widow) of George STEEVENS, 1790.
Jarret LESTOCK, son of Capt. Richard LESTOCK, 1700
Agnes, relict of William WHARTON of Waitby, Westmoreland, 1704
If anybody wants further details of any of the above and I have them - I
copied most of the stuff that I could - I'd be happy to oblige. A list of
those with murals inside the Chapel coming as part 3.
Back again with more on the EIC Chapel - I am only researching the bits
prior to 1858 when the Chapel was handed over to the Crown.
As promised, more information on the sources/publications held at the
Bancroft Road Local History Centre for the EIC Chapel relating to burials,
memorials, inscriptions etc:
Transcriptions of burial registers, 1654-1812, author unknown, c.1870,
Tower Hamlets Library, Local Studies Centre, TH/8367/1
Typed index to burial registers, 1654-1812, author unknown, original
compiled 1883-1884, Tower Hamlets Library, Local Studies Centre, TH/8367/2
Burial Dues Book, 1825-1855, Tower Hamlets Library, Local Studies Centre,
These include 8 'Asiatic' sailors buried between 1881 and 1884 - the
churchyard was NEVER consecrated so non-Christians could be buried there.
Typed Index to Burial Dues Book, 1825-1855, Tower Hamlets Library, Local
Studies Centre, TH/8367/4
A List of mural tablets in the Church of St Matthias, Poplar together with
copies of their inscriptions, (1742-1849), author unknown, c.late C19th
Tower Hamlets Library, Local Studies Centre, TH/8367/7
Poplar Chapel; Monumental Inscriptions, A Bradford, 1883-1884, Tower
Hamlets Library, Local Studies Centre, TH/8367/8
St Matthias Church, Poplar, Ernest J Marsh, 1933.
St Matthias Old Church: The East India Chapel in Docklands, the London
Docklands Development Corporation and English Heritage, London, 1996.
Happy to do look ups - WITHIN REASON
Look here RF Taylor , this is nothing to do with me, I'm just sitting here at
10.30pm listening to the rain bucketing down, but I'm going to stick my nose
in and say that I read your mail about Duke Hayes and I think that is an
absolutely marvellous good turn you have just done a stranger, a perfect
example of why reading this site is such a joy. My congratulations. Alan.
Some time ago a Duke Hayes posted a query regarding SARAH HAYES, who died in
Liverpool and was buried in Tower Hamlets Cemetery. I asked my colleagues in
the History Society to help out, and we've not only found the burial entry but
the grave as well. No mean feat, as the place is completely overgrown, and
there is no logical sequence to the records. I am posting this on the general
list, as I did not save the original email.
The Grave No. is 5103 in Square 4. The plot was bought by Rebecca KNOWLES of
20 Durham Street, Bethnal Green on 14 September 1866 for £5 and 5 shillings.
The first person buried there was William KNOWLES aged 57 years. Sarah HAYES
aged 34 yrs was buried on 18 June 1872. Rebecca KNOWLES aged 66 yrs was buried
on 11 October 1872, and Marmaduke DUKE aged 67 yrs was buried on 16 November
Curiously, the grave is very close to another one which I have been puzzling
over, the stone commemorates some one who died in Calcutta.
Just writing to say that if you live in Australia, the 4 vol books, Officers
of the Bengal Army 1765 - 1834 has been returned to the National Library in
Canberra. If anybody is interested its available on Inter library loan.
>From my lookup offer I received 23 enquires but unfortunately was only able
to help 11 list members.
I hope any information sent was beneficial to their researches.
I wish the best of luck to all the others I was unable to assist.
I posted this last January but thought I might repost whilst its quiet
My father's best friend at St Peter's School, Panchgani was Pesi Virjee.
Pesi is now over 80 but still lives in a House called Maidstone in
Panchgani. It was designed and built by someone who worked for the East
India Company. This person was sent to India to find a suitable site for
building schools to educate the children of East India employees. He chose
Panchgani - I think it means 'five hills'. Pesi would love to know a bit
more about the person who designed his house. Has anyone come across him?
I assume there must be some connection with Maidstone in Kent - not too far
from where I live now.
> From: Rhonda Mathew <rpm(a)picknowl.com.au>
> To: -D-request(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Subscribe
> Date: Friday, 31 July 1998 17:47
> i am interested in a new lead, i have come across
> my Great Grandfather was Henry Arthur Wellesley from Sutton House ,
> Croydon, Surrey
> I can only find a sutton house in Hackney England
> does anyone know if they are one and the same, the time period is
> any info on this would be welcome
> thankyou Rhonda Mathew
Its is the 64th Foot who became the Nth Staffs and then in a further
amalgamation he Staffordshire Reg. My great great grandfather John Davison
signed up aged 18 in 1848 (Liverpool). He was a 'lance' sgt when he was
married in 1856 to Jane Nelson in Belgaum. Went through the Mutiny and
ended up Reg Sgt Major 1859. The Reg took part in first relief of Cawnpore
and Lucknow with Gen Havelock. the Highland Regs seem to have taken all the
glory but 64th were equally prominent in in the battles for same. Possibly
too many Scots Generals around for history to record anything else!
Yours Tony Clarkson (clarkson(a)indigo.ie)
In a message dated 98-07-30 03:42:03 EDT, you write:
<< The Ordinance Depot at Ferozepore blew up either in 1906 or 1908 with an
terribly big bang. Does anybody know where one can get more information on
this tragedy as I beleive there were a number of casualties ? I seem to >>
Ferozepur District had a population of 958,000 in 1901 about 50, 000 of which
was the population of the city of Ferozepur. There should be some newspaper
clippings of a big fire. According to the ENC. BRIT. 1911 the town was a
railway junction connecting the North-Western and Rajputana railways. "The
arsenal is the largest in India, and Ferozepur is the headquarters of a
brigade in the 3rd division of the northern army corps. British rule was first
established at Ferozepur in 1835".
In a message dated 98-07-30 05:11:27 EDT, you write:
<< I found out very recently that my ggrandmother was Anglo-Burmese which
accounts for her mother and connections being so hard to find.
Question: Did mixed marriages take place as per the normal 'form' or what?
My ggrandmother was brought up as an 'English lady', therefore I presume
that her parents were married? >>
Caroline: there were many Anglo-Burmese. I knew several Anglo-Burmese in
India. Mixed marriages took place all over where the British were but they
were not always discussed because of the prevailing prejudices and resulting
rules of the time. Being an "english lady" would not mean your parents were
married but to my knowledge most mixed marriages were legal. However, records
are very scant, I find two or three hundred marriages recorded for a whole
presidency for a year, for instance, when I know there must have been many
more.Good luck with your search. Joy
>From Clarkson: Have struck gold with request for news of Max Minck and
family in Lahore.
But still no response to anyony knowing os Indian Mutiny veteran of HM 64TH
Foot Sgt (eventually Reg Sgt Maj) John DAVISON and his wife Jane (nee
NELSON), who married in Belgaum 1856.
Davison (he died 1890s) and his family lived in Karachi and Lahore area
from 1860 until 1947.
My e-mail is: clarkson(a)indigo.ie
To those interested in the E.I.C.Chapel,
Just to mention that Sir William Foster in his book "John Company",
pub.Bodley Head, 1926, has a chapter with ilustrations on this Chapel
and also one on the Company's Hospital at Poplar.
Appreciation to those who are recording it.
The Society of Genealogists in London has one of the more important
collection of sources relating to Indian ancestry. They have just begun
to operate mailing lists for both members and a news service mailing
list for non-members. The details are attached. If anyone who is a
member wants to reinforce my comment that the SoG's "Sources for Anglo-
Indian genealogy in the Library of the Society of Genealogists" has been
out of print for too long, this is the vehicle to do it in!
>The Society of Genealogists (of Great Britain) is now operating
>two electronic mailing lists based at Rootsweb, a discussion list
>(SOG-UK-L) and a news and information list (SOG-NEWS-L).
>SOG-UK-L is open ONLY to members of the Society. The aim of
>this list is to provide a forum for members to exchange opinions
>on genealogical matters, to help each other by sharing
>information and experience, advising on the use of Society
>resources, or the discussion of Society issues. Hopefully, those
>with expert or technical knowledge will join in to assist others.
>Please note that, whilst professional genealogists, indexers,
>and record agents who are members, are most welcome to
>join the list, they must *on no account* use the list as a means
>of touting for business or obtaining information from other
>subscribers to further their commercial activities. Likewise,
>authors or distributors of books or software are not expected
>to use the list for direct promotion of their publications.
>To join the list for the first time, send an e-mail message to
>stating your name, membership number and whether you wish
>to join the normal mail list [default], or the digest list.
>SOG-NEWS-L is open to *anybody* interested in the activities of
>the Society, both non-members and those members who do not
>wish to be involved with the discussion list. The list will be used
>to post notices about Society events, courses, special library
>acquisitions, etc., or for comments on genealogical issues from
>the Society. Messages will be posted here by the Society on an
>occasional basis, so there is no requirement for a digest.
>Subscribers to the list will not be able to post messages to the
>To subscribe to SOG-NEWS-L send an e-mail message to
>containing the one-word message
>and nothing else. If your e-mail software has an automatic
>signature, remember to set that off first.
>If you subscribe to the discussion list, there is no benefit in
>joining the news list, since all messages to SOG-NEWS-L will
>be also be posted to SOG-UK-L.
>Geoffrey Stone, SoG Mailing List Administrator.
Drake Software web site: http://www.tdrake.demon.co.uk
There are some Burma records on film at the FHCs and I believe they come
under "Bengal". (Cathy and Ray will know more about this).
The one I have seen is Film No. 0512366, "Bengal - Births, Marriages,
Burials, 1878 - 1891" and includes, among others, Rangoon and Thayetmyo.
(East India Group)
This popped up on the "London" list and I thought it may be of interest.
There has also been quite a bit of info about the EIC Church in Poplar - St
Matthias, I think; where many early EIC people were buried. Sylvia
>The churchyard is full of trees and tombstones, greenery and birds.
>Square box tomb abd headstones crushed together, the legends on them
>dark and crumbling, partly illegible, of captains and their relations.
>One Captain H. Wilson commanded the Hon East India Company's packet the
>'Antelope', which was wrecked in the Pelew Islands in the month of
>August 1783 and was wonderfully preserved together with all the ship's
>company in a land infrequented and unknown. "Reader, Reckon on thy life
>and the days that are past and thou will most assuredly.." the rest is
>blank. On the south side of Church St is the Rectory and the St. Mary
>watch-house and a school with small figures of the scholars over the
>door and a garden full of weeds and flowers. It is a free school
>founded in 1613 and removed here in 1797.
>.............End of quote ......
>The book is 'The Streets of London: The Booth Notebooks. South East'
>Published by Deptford Forum Publishing Ltd
>ISBN 1 898536 31 7 Price GBP 10.99