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At 17:30 30/06/98 -0400, Peter wrote:
>The pay of various grades,trades or ranks is a very interesting subject and
>I feel worth a wider airing....lets have some pay rates please.
Excellent idea. If we all send in anything we know about the pay rates of
our own ancestors we should be able to put quite a useful reference guide
My European ancestor had been an ordained priest for 3 years, working with
the S.P.G. in Puthiamputhur when he sent in his annual return of 1857, which
stated that the amount of his PROFESSIONAL income during the past year had
been "170 Rupees per mensem."
By 1873, the same society had one "native" priest in Tanjore earning R325
per mensem and another native priest earning R300. It was said that East
Indian missionaries cost the society as much as European ones, "or nearly so".
In 1878 a faithful missionary's wife (my dear g'g'grandmother, who had been
slaving away for the society as her husband's helpmeet for no pay for the
past 25 years) was widowed, and given the job of running one of the
mission's boarding schools, for Rs 100 per mensem and a house, but with no
passage or furlough allowance to England. (She took this rather badly, and I
am pleased to say - quit! Her daughter went on to become a suffragette.)
Another ancestor, unordained, and working as a mission teacher in Quilon for
a different missionary society, in 1832, had his salary "reduced from Rs100
to Rs 80 per mensem" (due to his "want of Xn character", which I think meant
that he was co-habiting with a local woman.) He then found himself obliged
to make up the difference by teaching local "heathen" boys privately, which
riled the mission committee even more, so that his original salary was
In 1874, the cost of a 15 year old missionary's daughter's passage was Rs
700 and that of a missionary himself Rs 850. However in 1880 the cost of
passage for a child back to England was Rs 250 "and of the ayah in
attendance Rs 150" which is a bit of a mystery. Maybe travel got a lot
cheaper all of a sudden....?
Look forward to seeing some more of these,
Hello, Tim Frost and Jill Grey and any others interested.
The pay of various grades,trades or ranks is a very interesting subject and
I feel worth a wider airing. I would like to know for instance what the pay
rate of a Conductor in the Bengal Artillery was around the time of the
mutiny and did they receive any "bonus" or compensation for the their
actions or suffering resulting from the Mutiny.
If someone has access to any of the books mentioned perhaps they might
extract a few rates to help us gauge the relative "worth" of our ancestors.
This info. may help some of you:- Chambers dictionary (1948) " Rupee,a
standard Indian silver coin nominally worth 2 shillings >ie 10 to the Pound
Sterling< ( but 1 shilling and 4 pence before 1920)- but usually less.
Enc.Britannica.(1911)A silver coin of 175 grains troy was the standard coin
of India until 1835 when a standard of 180 grains was established,
containing 165 grains of pure silver.
Down to about 1873 the exchange rate was 10 rupees to the £1 but due to the
depreciation in the value of silver the value sank to 1 shilling or 20
rupees to the £1. In 1899 the value was fixed at 1 shilling and 4 pence or
15 to the £1. The rupee was divided into 16 annas and the anna subdivided
into 12 pies.
Chambers Enc. of 1866 gives values for the rupee going back to the Sicca
rupee of 1773 where it is stated to be worth 2 shilling and 2pence. This
figure stays constant to 1823 when most of the various issuing mints coins
were revalued to 2 shillings and a halfpenny each. The London Mint however
allow a seigniorage (whatever that may be) of 6% reducing the value to 1
shilling and 11 pence.
I don`t have the Daily Telegraph today so I can`t look up the current
exchange rate, but as with all recent money changing it probably doesn`t
have any relation to purchasing power on the ground. The Mars Bar rule is
the best indicator of western inflation and purchasing power and I`m fairly
sure that I read recently some thing about the Pound/Kilo of Rice being a
similar indicator. Any Economists out there??
Now lets have some pay rates please.
Peter Rogers,Suffolk,England newhurst(a)compuserve.com
Looking for Rogers,Pembroke,Harrison,Bradbeer and Bradley in India,Ireland
and in wherever they have settled.
Please put Your e-mail address after your name- makes replying to you
personally, where necessary much easier and ensures a quicker reply.
Tim Frost wrote:
> Does anyone know a good reference or can any one advise on the annual
> salary of say a planter, an officer and a soldier in the period 1775 to
Some figures for annual salaries paid to planters are given in John
Weatherstone, _The Pioneers_ (Quiller, 1986).
Edward Spiers, _The Army and Society, 1815-1914_ (Longman, 1980) gives
general details of army pay and includes extensive bibliographies with
each chapter, which might be helpful to you.
Some, but not all Army Lists give details of officers' pay (daily,
monthly, annually) with separate tables of Indian Pay and Allowances Per
Month. If you are interested in details from, for example, Hart's 1873
Army List, I can email them to you.
Has anyone sighted a BDM or other reference to Adam BLACKADDER (or
BLACKADER) HEIC surgeon in the period 1750-1790 please? It is possible
that he was married in India and that his daughter Katharine Allan
Blackader was born there about 1770.
Brenton C. Wood
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Hello to all on this list - this is my first communication to the group
although I've been reading the material for a few days.
My Grandfather ,Rupert Badgery FRSH, graduated from the
horticultural program at Kew Gardens.London in 1904. He joined the
Indian Civil Service as Parks Superintendant in1905. He married Mercy
McFarlane(?McFarland) in Cawnpore 1910. The family lived in various
postings including Cawnpore,Agra, and Mussoorie. The family returned to
England on Rupert's retirement in 1928. I'm particularly interested in
Mercy McFarlane(the marriage certificate seems to read"McFarland").
Mercy was born in Burma in 1894 , daughter of Major Badgery a physician
in the Indian Army. This latter sentance is family hearsay - not
I would like to confirm Mercy's roots. Can anyone suggest where I might
search ? I will be in London in September and intend visiting the
British Library- OIOC records , and the PRO in Kew.
Thanking you all in advance for your help, and for the
interesting reading of your letters. Oh that our parents would have been
alive to see the wonderful world of information and communicationthat we
call the Internet.
Alan Rupert Badgery, Newmarket,Ontario,Canada
In message <19980630071205.1375.qmail(a)hotmail.com>, Brenton C. Wood
>Has anyone sighted a BDM or other reference to Adam BLACKADDER (or
>BLACKADER) HEIC surgeon in the period 1750-1790 please? It is possible
>that he was married in India and that his daughter Katharine Allan
>Blackader was born there about 1770.
You should find references to him in Col. D.G. Crawford's "Roll of the
Indian Medical Service" and "History of the Indian Medical Service". In
the case of my ggg grandfather who went out as an Assistant Surgeon in
the EIC's service there was not a lot of detail, but sufficient to get
The real gold mine for a physician in the EIC's service are their
attestation papers in class L/MIL/9 at the India Office Library and
Records. These are rather fragile and not on film so you will need a
researcher to visit the IOL when it reopens in the new British Library
building this autumn. This will usually give you the name of his
parents, proof of baptism (where/when/by whom), certificates and
testimonials of medical competency, place of first posting etc. From
this you should also be able to find his other records in the IOL.
Drake Software web site: http://www.tdrake.demon.co.uk
To the List,
In the book "Resorts of The Raj - Hill Stations of India" (by Vikram
Bhatt, published 1998 in USA and India, and stocked by Amazon.com) there
is excellent photographic work supported by a text interwoven with
interesting vignettes of the society of the day. The book is well
researched and it has excellent notes, source attribution and
My point for the list relates to this excerpt:
"In the early 1880s international travel was unsafe, difficult and very
expensive." The Captains of East Indiamen sailing between the Thames and
Madras or Calcutta probably charged their richer clients what they
pleased or what they knew they could pay. It was their perquisite , the
owners 'never interfering about passengers'. The clippers which sailed
between Europe and the Orient did not have furnished cabins. Not only
were the passengers, who had made their fortunes in India, expected to
pay a high price for their passage but they also ended up paying for
furnishing their cabins. When he was going out to India in 1777,
William Hickey was charged an extra hundred guineas just for a seat at
the Captain's Table, and had to share his cabin on Sea horse with three
other men. Hickey made his final return to England in 1808, after he
had made his fortune in India. He spent a considerable sum of money
making sure that he was comfortable on this return voyage. He paid a
total of 29,300 rupees, about British Pounds 3,660, of which only 8,000
rupees were for cabin and passage, plus 500 rupees for the sloop to
convey him down the river to the ship. However the rest, 20,800 rupees
were for clothes, furniture for the cabin and so on. The passage fee
did not include wine, for which Hickey paid an extra 1,235 rupees."
Does anyone know a good reference or can any one advise on the annual
salary of say a planter, an officer and a soldier in the period 1775 to
1875. Was it stable, was it linked to the price of gold or what? Is
there a reference that would lead me to the exchange rates/mechanism of
the day. Come to that what is the exchange rate today? My newspaper
says rates on application. I also understand that in India today they
like to impose controls on exchange and hard currency which might
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From: "Ronnie Johnson" <ronniejohnson(a)hotmail.com>
Subject: Hello Cathy, Down but still not out!!
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 03:15:46 PDT
Some friend had asked me about the attached details when I was on the
Roots but it kinda got lost. Now both of us are not not the net. Please
could you put it up for me on the India-roots mailing. Today is my
second last day at work, after tuesday, I will have to see how I get
around. I may be down, but I amd definately not out, and will be back as
a member of the India-roots gang!
Any one researching Mullens family, comes across the following family
details would request information on :
(1) Need to know where and when Civil Surgeon William Joseph Cooper was
born, and how to obtain the Birth Certificate.
(2) Where to get the Baptism of Ninette Marguerita Cooper
Details that are available:
William Joseph Cooper, Civil Surgeon at Burma, Chudderghaut with the 4th
Bn. Artillery. William married Ellen Smith in 1851
Capt. William Henry Cooper (b. 4.4.1852)
Madras (Ref. Vol 31, page 168 Z/N/2B.6)
Capt. William married Mabel Florence Korb (b.23.3.1873)
(Ref. Vol.70 page 183, madras Z/N/2B.8). Mabel was the daughter of
Alfred Korb of Golconda (in service with H.H. the Nizam of Hyderabad)
and his wife was called Gertrude.
William and Mabel had a daughter called Ninette Marguerita Cooper
(b.Jan/Feb 1895). Ninette was married in Bangalore on 14/5/1917 to
Benett Charles Bourn-Mullen, s/o Charles James Bourne
The references above are perhaps from the Office of the Registrar
General, for Births, Deaths, Marriages, P.O. Box 59, First Line Beach,
Madras 1. or it could be St. Georges Cathedral. St. Thomas Mount,
My warm regards to the India group,
Any information to show that William Joseph Cooper was born in England
or Alfred Korb, would be greatfully appreciated.
You may send me through surface mail Ronnie Johnson, 5/3 King Street,
Richmond Town, Bangalore 560 025, India., as I do not know when I would
access my e-mail account, Cheers and thanks Ronnie
Appreciate the "East India Group" Newsletter from Tony Mooar, NZ, thanks
for remembering me. Ronnie
ps. Cathy, I have not forgotten about the Kelimen connection!
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I was cleaning out my email folders & came across the following which was
posted to this list 6 months or so ago - as I couldn't stop laughing,
thought others may like to read it again, and newbies appreciate humour from
other list members ...Sylvia
>I have recently been introduced to the India-L list and would like to
>seek the assistance in tracing records of some of my relatives from some
>of the incidents which have been passed on in the oral tradition.
>My gggfather Septimus Gunny went out to India with HEIC in the 1700s as
>a Fiddler in the XXVII Lancileers. My gfather told my father that he
>would fiddle for the nautch dances and almost fiddled at the time of
>Do any of your correspondents have any information or know of any office
>where I can get information regarding a fiddler in the EIC. How does one
>research these things?
>I saw some correspondence on the Gunny's and wonder if they are
>connected.I noted a correspondent objected to us Gunny's being
>mentioned. The same one I think who sends blurbs about some Reunion
>On my mothers side, Her father was a Sack born in the early 1900s. The
>story goes that he was a jemadar for many families. Does anyone know
>what a jamadar is?
>The oral history that has been passed on is that they sailed in the good
>Ship Lollypop around about 1800. Can anyone help with passenger lists or
>where I can trace the owners of the Vessel. Are there any shipping
>records where I can find these names?
>I also have a metallic urn with an inscription on it. It seems to have
>been a parting gift to my jemadar ancestor for service. I am not sure as
>to whether the incscription is Latin and what it means. Is it a
>regimental motto of some words of farewell?
>I know Apis has something to do with bees in Latin, anno is year, Her
>Majesty mentioned something about "annus horribilis" in her Christmas
>message in 1996 and I got a clue from that. and Tu is you. However the
>last words may be a translation for the year in some language. I have
>tried saying it loud a few times and it seems to make some sense.Try it
>on your friends there may be some scholars among them. No linguists
>appeared on the list so far.
>Maybe some of our learned correspondents will be able to help out.
> "Apis potitis anno tinwun tu"
>Waiting eagerly for your replies as it may be worth a fortune.
>Help means both ways so I am giving some of my oral history and maybe
>those who see names or places and need to ask further questions may
>please do so.
>I was brought up and still live in Bancoote, note the spelling, I think
>someone on the List was looking for this with a different spelling (now
>you know the correct spelling ) and went to school there in St.Cathy's
>day Girl's School. Can anyone tell me as to whether they have a web site
>where we can contact other Catherines? Is it mentioned in "Under the
>We are having a Bancoote picnic and will be meeting some Catherines
>(that's what we call ourselves) there so if any one wants further
>information I will ask around those attending.
>Also Leading Seaman (Retired(hurt)) Lazarus has a project on the
>graveyards in Bancoote and if any one wants information please direct
>your queries to
>zzz.graves/bancoote/buried/ and see their home page.
>Folklore has it that there is a complete section of the graveyard
>devoted to people who refused to take part in the Rum Rebellion and were
>killed by the Rebels and this has been listed in Ripley's "You'd Better
>All respondents to my requests will be given the secret recipe to
>"Mutton Koorma" by direct correspondence. This normally costs $300. so
>you can be assured of your money's worth. You will need the recipe given
>in an earlier message for "Lemon and Barley Water" as well. You may
>need to have some after the Koorma as it is "A Hot today Hotter
>No Freeloaders as this recipe is copyrighted.
>Please send your replies one sentence at time as my komputer can only
>download simple messages which it translates into semaphore and I have
>to take out my Bancoote dictionary to read it. Will correspondents in
>the North reply first, then the South, followed by those in the East and
>West. If it is important then write xxx three times before the message.
>That is xxx xxx xxx and not 3 x's.
>Cathy can you fix these people up so my messages come like that.
>Cheerio & keep those messages coming
>GUNNY, SACK, HESIAN and JUTE and also for some Plastic Bags.
>Bad Typists of the world, use a spell checker.
Gordon Roger Smith wrote:
> Could anyone shed any light on what the W.A.C.I. (initials could be
> wrong) was?
According to Byron Farwell's "Armies of the Raj" this was the Women's
Auxilliary Corps. (India), one of the organizations created during the
expansion of the Indian Army during WWII.
>From page 313:
"Most recruits were Christians, Anglo-Indians, or Burmese; only a few
were Hindu and fewer still were Muslim. Women in the Corps handled
administrative work, freeing men to fight; a few were taught to drive.
Enlistment could be for "Local Service" or for "General Service." Those
in the latter category agreed to serve overseas."
Rajbari was in the District of Faridpur. It was/is on the Ganges River
about 250 kilometres north-east of Calcutta (according to my 1946 map of
Cathy Day of Alice Springs, Central Australia
email : clday(a)ozemail.com.au
British Ancestors in India Website at
Can someone please tell me where the town(?) of RAJBARI was located?
I've just received a copy of the will of a 2xgreatuncle - a rather sad
document and I quote:-
"I, Charles Frederick EMERY, carriage inspector at Rajbari, distrit of
Turridpore(?), Bengal, being almost hopeless of life on account of the
cutting of my left arm by the Railway Engine, make this my last will and
testament on the 28th day of June 1892"
He worked for the East Indian Railways, was only 31 years old and left a
widow and young son..
Ian Cain wrote:
> I have an old genealogical chart for my family that says it is
> reproduced from family records regarding the estate of John de Monte,
> died 1821 at Gavalong (Madras) S. India, "see serial number 987 of the
> book Cotton's inscriptions of tombs and monuments" Anyone familiar
> with this book?
'List of Inscriptions on Tombs or Monuments in the Madras Presidency
(also French India, Travancore, Mysore and Hyderabad)' Compiled by
J.J.Cotton, Madras (1905) (revised edition, 1946).
You might also find the following volume useful:
'List of European Tombs etc.for Districts in the Madras Presidency (North
Arcot; South Arcot; Anantpur; Tanjore) by H.Le Fanu, 1893; S.G.Roberts,
1894; and other 'Collectors', 1894-99, Madras.
If anyone has access to the LDS baptismal/birth records for either the
Madras or Bombay Presidencies between the years 1896 and 1905, I would
appreciate any assistance. I am looking for the records of an ancestor.
If you could possibily help me, please e-mail me directly.
Interested in George Ingham, First Lieutenant, 3rd
Ceylon Rifle Regiment, 1805. Have a lot on Maj.
Josiah FitzThomas Shadwell and other Inghams and
Shadwells in India for anyone interested, George
"Randy" Ingham, rngra(a)rocketmail.com
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In an eyewitness account published in The Times, a number of surnames
were mentioned in connection with first days of the 1857 Mutiny at
Delhi. If any of the following names are of interest, please contact me
for an email copy of the article in Word format.
Commander-in-Chief, the Hon. George ANSON
Dr. BATSON of the 74th Regiment
the Commissioner, Mr. FRASER
the artillery commandant, Captain DE TESSIER
Dr. DOPPING of the 54th
the Fort Adjutant, Captain DOUGLAS
Lieutenant HOLLAND, the Quartermaster of the 38th
the Rev. Mr. JENNINGS and his daughter
Major KAYRETT was in command of the regiment
Brigade Major, Captain NICOL
Major Paterson, of the 54th Regiment Native Infantry and Mrs. PATERSON
Westwood PEILE and Mrs PEILE
Mr. RIGBY, of the Engineers Department
Colonel RIPLEY, the commandant of the regiment,
Captain TYLER, of the 38th
Dr John WOOD & Mrs WOOD
Brenton C. Wood
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>I came across a recently published book, this week called
>Angels of Albion - Women of the Indian Mutiny by Jane Robinson.
>It is 318 pages and gives background accounts of the Mutiny as suffered by
>various women. This might be of interest to those wanting to fill in on
>social history side of their ancestors.
>Price is approx NZ$45, probably US$20
How strange you should mention this book. I just borrowed it from our
local library on Thursday and find it a simply fascinating account. It is
particularly interesting to me as my g-grandaunt, JANET SINCLAIR was
"butchered" in the Bibighur at Cawnpore together with 200 or so other women
and children. Her brother, WILLIAM SINCLAIR (my g-grandfather) escaped by
dressing as a native, although his name is posted on the death list as
having been killed at Sati Chowra Ghat. Janet's half-sister MATILDA and
husband MATTHEW OGLE and "large family" were also killed. He, is
mentioned in Andrew Ward's book, "Our Bones are Scattered." It says -
"Other fugitives were not so lucky. Sergeant Matthew Ogle of the Canal
Department was captured and killed after trying to escape into the
The story of Amy Horne and Ulrica Wheeler, both Eurasian girls in their
teens, being captured by Sowars and forced into Moslem marriages, is
fascinating. There is also an article on Amy in the June issue of The
Cawnpore was probably the saddest account of the Mutiny, as out of about a
thousand European and Eurasians sheltering in General Wheeler's
entrenchment, (mostly civilian as there were only about 120 British
soldiers to defend the entrenchment), only a handful survived, and some of
them like Amelia Horne, Jonah Shepherd and Mowbray Thompson wrote accounts
of their experiences.
Incidentally, does anyone on the List have a copy of Shepherd's List of
Dead? I saw this in his book kept in the OIOC but couldn't get it all
Surbiton, Surrey, UK
As I am sure you all know by now I am working on a boolet for Society of
Genealogists on records re India & Far East . I am treying to solve the
more thorny problems now as to if records exist for certain groups
Can anyone tell me whom to contact regarding records of Jewish marriages or
burials in the Indian sub contient. Specifically Jewish peoplw of Middle
Eastern/European origin not Jews of Cochin or those of Indian origin
"Jews of the Raj" and "Jews of Cochin" are not records based books. I am
looking for specific places where these records have been preserved either
in India or abroad or if anyone has an actual person I can contact in
By the way I would be interested to contact anyone who is tracing people in
India of Jewish descent
I recently got a readers ticket for the School of Oriental & African
Studies and I have come across interesting books specifically on Jews in
India, which I had not come across in British Library as they are not UK
published. Unfortunately not records orintated, but if anyone interested I
can e-mail the book details
Help please on this one - I am getting desperate, none of the Jewish
Genealogical Societies in UK can help