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Re: the book you refer to concerning the families of Indigo Factory.Would
there happen to be anyone by the
sur name of HAYES, listed in the book? If there is, would you please E-mail
me the information to:aehayes
the GRD is a great way to find what names are being researched by others.
It is published yearly (I think). Under surnames, you will find a list of
details pertaining to what years and what locales someone is researching
for a particular name. There would be a cross-referenced number listed that
corresponds to a researcher's name and address. You could then write to
that person. You can also place an ad in the GRD so someone else can find
you. Of course only those who put their names in are listed. It used to be
that if you put in an entry, you'd receive that edition free (one yearly).
In my experience, it's a great source for unusual names but not so great
for really common ones (e.g. Hughes in England).
I have access to the GRD through my local genealogical society and through
the Mormon's Family History Centre. Perhaps the OGS would have copies, or
the Genealogical Research Library in Toronto? I haven't used it for a
while, so maybe someone else could add to/correct what I've mentioned here.
> Could someone please explain what the Genealogical Research Directory is
> what information it provides) and where it could be found in Canada
> (specifically Toronto).
> Sharon Saunders
Many of us have been less than successful in writing to India for
information. I've found that our chances are SLIGHTLY increased if we
include a stamped, self-addressed envelope. Occasionally, a small cheque
is helpful (the average Indian earns only around 60 rupees a day - a
small sum in any Western currency).
I have a small number of Indian stamps for just this purpose
which I would be willing to trade with members of this mailing list, if
they needed them. It costs 11 rupees to send an airmail letter to
anywhere in the world from India.
I also have an Indian cheque account. If anyone needs it, I could
write small cheques to Indian authorities, churches, etc if it would
help. Let me know!
Web Site : British Ancestors in India
I received this interesting email from Vickram Bhatnagar in
Oxford. Rather than 'give him the addresses', as he asks, I thought I'd
post it to the mailing list on his behalf. If you would like to help him
with his research, whether you've been to India or not, then please email
him directly at 96111863(a)brookes.ac.uk and he will send you the
questionnaire. I intend to 'volunteer' - frankly, anything that India
could do to help genealogist-tourists would be much appreciated!
> I am an Indian student at Oxford and am doing research on 'Marketing
> India as a Tourism Destination in Britain'. This piece of literature
> promises to explore Indo-British links through the centuries with an
> important emphasis on British India.
> Would it be possible for you to help me in collecting addresses of
> people who have expressed a desire to visit India in order to rediscover
> their roots and where their ancestors may have served, but have not done
> so due to certain reservations about the facilities, infrastructure or
> treatment that would be expected if they did visit the sub-continent.
> Alternatively would it also be possible to provide addresses of people
> who have actually been to India and would like to share their
> experiences for the research.
> I believe that the research and information collected by me would help
> the concerned tourism organisations to better understand the
> expectations and limitations of the potential visitors and be able to
> provide special packages to people in groups and enable them to see all
> the places of historical or sentimental attachment in a safe and
> structured environment.
> I sincerely thank you in advance and hope that you will be able to
> provide me with these addresses.
> The addresses will only be used for mailing a short questionnaire and do
> not intend to invade the privacy of the respondents in any way
> whatsoever. All information provided will be confidential and will not
> be passed onto any source whatsoever.
> Thank you
> With sincere regards
> Vikram Bhatnagar
> 1 Acland Close
> Little Oxford
> OX3 7XE
> Phone No. 0410-522949
In response to Mike Kirke's query about finding service records for
Bengal Police circa 1880, my little booklet entitled 'India Office
Records : Sources for Family History' says :
'Uncovenanted Civil Service : Personnel employed in railways, police,
public works, post ofice, etc 1818-1900, 1922-1928 [are in the OIOC
series] L/F/10. [The documents contain] name, occupation, salary and
period of residence in India.
Deaths in the Uncovenanted Civil Service 1870-1949 [contain] name of
deceased, date and place of death, rank, probable age, native town and
country, next of kin, custody of property, if any. Index held by Mr
These records are not available on microfilm, so you will have to visit
the OIOC yourself (which is difficult if you live in Western Australia!),
or hire a professional researcher. Some names are on my website.
Web Site : British Ancestors in India
Checked the 1997 Genealogical Research Directory and was happy to find a
researcher for WEMYSS in Bengal
Mr. Ray Osborn
9a Nairn Road
Rotorua 3201 New Zealand
And you are lucky! He is on e-mail.
Hope this is new for you.
As new subscriber to this news group I have a lot of questions to ask so here goes.
I am trying to trace the Wemyss family history in India and would be grateful to hear from anyone with information relating to the Wemyss name.
My family had strong connections with the East Indian Railways. As they were Anglo-Indians will the Uncovenanted Civil Service List (L/F/10) hold information on them ?
Secondly are there other good sources of information on the EIR and their employees ?
I am also trying to trace information on my great grandfather,
as Wilfred Blissington Fitzhenry (Sahebgunge 1907) on my grandmothers baptism cerificate
as Wilfred Fitzhenry (Jubburpore 1909) on his second marriage cerificate (to a Beatrice Maud Kenny)
and as Hon Sir Wilfred Batho-Cole Fitzhenry (Karachi 1925) on my grandmothers marriage cerificate
Is it likely that his first marriage was to a Blissington which he later dropped from his name after her death ?
I have no idea where Batho-Cole came from but if he was really a Hon Sir where should I look for information on why this title was given ?
His witness to his 2nd marriage was a J McCulloch of the RIA (52BTL) but I could find no trace of this battalion in any RIA list. Can anyone provide me with more information on this ?
As Wilfred's occupation at the time of his 2nd marriage was horse broker and trainer, is it possible that he would also have some connection with the RIA ?
You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Many thanks for your prompt and very helpful reply. It's great to have
somewhere to start the process. I have found that the Crawford books
are available in some Australian libraries. I can see it will also be
worthwhile for me to visit to the OIOC. One day .....!
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:33:45 +0100
>To: INDIA-L(a)rootsweb.com, "Brenton C. Wood" <bcwood(a)hotmail.com>
>From: Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake <barney(a)tdrake.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Surgeon Major John WOOD HEIC
>In message <199707281455.HAA01937(a)f69.hotmail.com>, "Brenton C. Wood"
>>I would be interested to know if anyone has information or can suggest
>>how I can find information about Surgeon Major John WOOD, born
>>Scotland, who was in India with his wife Marjorie Maxwell ORMISTON
>>about 1846 to at least 1857. I understand he was based at Simla and
>>in Delhi with the 38th Regiment at the time of the Sepoy rebellion.
>>The story of their escape from Delhi was well chronicled in the Times
>>and is also mentioned in the book "Angels of Albion", recently
>>by Jane Robinson.
>>The WOODs migrated to New Zealand in 1862.
>>I would appreciate help in researching his service in India. Any
>>suggestions would be most welcome.
>It's my understanding that prior to 1857 the HEIC recruited physicians
>to serve in India, St Helena and the Straits Settlements as one group.
>They were ranked either Assistant Surgeon or Surgeon according to their
>seniority. I think it was only after 1858 when the Indian Medical
>Service was established that Army ranks were used. If his ultimate rank
>was Surgeon Major, this suggests to me that he did indeed continue to
>serve after 1857.
>There are two books published by Col. D.G. Crawford. His "Roll of the
>Indian Medical Service 1615-1930" is a complete listing, while his
>"History of the Indian Medical Service" contains brief biographies of
>some of its better known members. Dodwell & Miles "An alphabetical list
>of Indian medical officers 1764-1838" will probably be a little too
>early for him.
>The India Office Library in London has the original records of
>appointment of all physicians from 1804 to 1914, in class L/MIL/9 with
>an index in class Z/L/MIL/9/5. These are wonderful records to work with
>as they frequently contain proof of baptism and medical competence. You
>also get to see and handle the originals rather than squinting at a
>Drake Software web site at http://www.tdrake.demon.co.uk/
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
In response to Bob Penhearow's question on the Total Abstinence Medal,
I'm posting this answer to the mailing list as others might be
interested. I apologise for its length, but I thought that it was quite
Philip Haythornthwaite's book 'The Colonial Wars Source Book' says this :
'Much of the military's bad reputation was ascribed to alcohol, partly
the consequence of men having no other way to spend their off-duty hours,
and especially marked among Europenas serving in the colonies; as one old
officer remarked, pointing to a mountain, "Do you see that peak? Place a
Bengal artilleryman alone on top of that peak in the morning, and he'll
be drunk before night, wherever it may come from! Upon my soul, I think
they could get liquor out of the rock itself!"'
'Attempts were made to combat excessive drinking, including the
establishment of canteens where wholesome beer could be purchased instead
of lethal local brews, libraries and sports facilities; and education was
so encouraged that additional pay was granted to holders of certificates.
Also of significance were temperance movements which sought to reduce the
consumption of alcohol, if not outlaw it completely...'
'...The Soldiers' Total Abstinence Association was formed at Agra in 1858
by a Baptist missionary, the Revd. John Gregson, to which regimental
branches were affiliated. Gregson's organisation made considerable
progress ... and received support from many in authority, notably Lord
Roberts, who in 1887 amalgamated the STAA with another, less influential
movement, the Outram Institutes (founded by Sir James Outram in 1860 to
provide facilities for the useful employment of soldiers' off-duty
hours). The result was the Army Temperance Association (Roberts believing
that temperance would have wider appeal than total abstinence), which was
extended from India to Britain in 1893. Its membership (almost 36,00 by
1896 when both Indian and 'Home Organisation' are included) was
sufficiently extensive to cause a marked decline in drunkenness, crime
and punishment, and members were awarded medals which at ATA functions
could actually be worn in uniform (upon the right breast).'
Haythornthwaite's book then gives a picture of a medal with the caption :
'A medal of the Soldiers' Total Abstinence Association, in silver with
sky-blue ribbon, awarded for one years's abstinence; a clasp inscribed
"Fidelity" was issued to mark a second year's abstinence.'
Web Site : British Ancestors in India
Some time back, browsing on the WWW, I found a list of current public
schools in India. Most seemed to be survivals from the British period. You
may be able to find it by looking up key words - schools, india etc
>Just out of curosity, anyone out there attend Bresks (sic) School in Poona?
>My father-in-law was a pupil there. I am told the school is still
I am searching for THORNHILL in India. The earliest I have found is
Cudbert THORNHILL who lived at Cosspore. He was Indian Army but was a
friend of Sir William Bensley, a director of EIC. He is buried at North
Park St. Cemetery, Calcutta, India. His wife was Maria Ursula NN, widow
of John Hammond of the Royal Navy.
Cudbert's son John THORNHILL was adopted during his early years in
England by Robert Bensley, actor, and presumably son or brother of Sir
William. Bensley has become a family name. My wife's father bore it as
does my son. John attended Westminster School and married (1) Henrietta
Sarah Craigie, (2) Mary White Siddons, and (3) Henriette Phillipine
BEAUFOY. Two of his sons and one of his grandsons died in the Mutiny at
Lucknow, Cawnpore, and Sitapore.
Cudbert Bensley THORNHILL, John's son, married Ellen SALTAU. He paid
for the maintenance of 24 children, six of his own and 18 belonging to
his brothers and other officers killed in the mutiny. He was traveling
out to be Governor of Aden when he died at sea in 1868. His son John
THORNHILL was a Major in the 6th Madras Infantry and married Leonore A.
He was the end of the line of THORNHILL's in the Indian Army. Several
of them were educated at Haileybury.
Any other information would be greatly appreciated.
In message <199707281455.HAA01937(a)f69.hotmail.com>, "Brenton C. Wood"
>I would be interested to know if anyone has information or can suggest
>how I can find information about Surgeon Major John WOOD, born Jedburgh
>Scotland, who was in India with his wife Marjorie Maxwell ORMISTON from
>about 1846 to at least 1857. I understand he was based at Simla and was
>in Delhi with the 38th Regiment at the time of the Sepoy rebellion.
>The story of their escape from Delhi was well chronicled in the Times
>and is also mentioned in the book "Angels of Albion", recently published
>by Jane Robinson.
>The WOODs migrated to New Zealand in 1862.
>I would appreciate help in researching his service in India. Any
>suggestions would be most welcome.
It's my understanding that prior to 1857 the HEIC recruited physicians
to serve in India, St Helena and the Straits Settlements as one group.
They were ranked either Assistant Surgeon or Surgeon according to their
seniority. I think it was only after 1858 when the Indian Medical
Service was established that Army ranks were used. If his ultimate rank
was Surgeon Major, this suggests to me that he did indeed continue to
serve after 1857.
There are two books published by Col. D.G. Crawford. His "Roll of the
Indian Medical Service 1615-1930" is a complete listing, while his
"History of the Indian Medical Service" contains brief biographies of
some of its better known members. Dodwell & Miles "An alphabetical list
of Indian medical officers 1764-1838" will probably be a little too
early for him.
The India Office Library in London has the original records of
appointment of all physicians from 1804 to 1914, in class L/MIL/9 with
an index in class Z/L/MIL/9/5. These are wonderful records to work with
as they frequently contain proof of baptism and medical competence. You
also get to see and handle the originals rather than squinting at a
Drake Software web site at http://www.tdrake.demon.co.uk/
Hi to all,
I am yet another Western Australian who has an interest in this list -
perhaps we should start a common interest group or somthing <BG>.
Firstly - thanks to Cathy Day for setting up this mailing list, her web
pages have helped me significantly in making a couple of great leaps
backwards in my family search and I am sure that this list will be of equal
My great granfather Walter Hugh BROWN was born on 24th July 1880 to Charles
John BROWN (an inspector in the Bengal Police) and Annette Elvina (Unkown)
in Alipore Calcutta. In 1895 at the age of 15 Walter joined the 1st
Batalion of the Royal Irish Fusiliers at Allahabad and saw service in South
Africa from 1899 to 1902. On 19th Sep 1904 he attained the rank of Staff
Sargent and transfered to the Indian army from "Supernumerary lists on the
roles of 2nd ? Royal Irish Fusiliers". From this point on I have Walter's
service record courtesy of the OIOC. Walter served at various garrisons
throughout India in the Supply and Transport Corps and on 10th Jan 1905 he
married Kathleen Teresa COCHRANE (daughter of Lawrence COCHRANE) at St John
the Evangelist Church in Colba, Bombay.
Walter and Kathleen had one daughter Hazel Letitia Mabel BROWN, born on
10th Feb 1906 in Rawalpindi (then) India. Kathleen died on 9th Jan 1907 at
her mothers home in Holywood Co. Down Ireland.
While Walter served in the Army in India and then in WW1, Hazel was brought
up by his sister Letty (Leticia ?) and her husband Will ROSS-HAYES. Walter
attain the rank of Sub Conductor (Warrant Officer 1) in 1917 however he
died of scepticemia of sores of the legs in Mesopotamia before he reached
India after the war ended and Hazel remained with Letty & Will.
In letters from Walter to Hazel, a number of Uncles and Aunts are
mentioned as follows
- Charlie Brown (perhaps m. Annette) but had Epilepsy and lived with Letty
& Will also.
- Kiity Brown m. Tom ?? and had 2 sons Cedric and Percy.
- Eddie Brown married and wife died in 1940's.
- Josie ?? & Fred ?? who had a daughter Merle. Merle & Hazel went to
Woodstock School in Mussoorie also with cousins Beryl and Doris.
- Ellen ?? who had 2 sons Edwin & Donald. Edwin served with Walter in the
S&T Corps in Mesepotamia
- Aunty Toots
Other names mentioned are
- Will MATHER - father of a Clara??
- Peter WREFORD
- Michael Joseph and Clarence Mabel DOYLE - god parents to Hazel
Will ROSS-HAYES was the District Engineer Jhang Principal in Feb 1916 and
then the Garrison Engineer in Bareilly in Jan 1917.
Will & Letty ROSS-HAYES and Charlie BROWN were living in Fraser Town
Bangalore in Mar 1947.
If any one has any information on
1) any of the names above
2) The Royal Irish Fusiliers in India
3) How to find out service records of an Inspector in the Bengal Police
4) Woodstock School in Mussoorie or
5) What part of what army Will ROSS-HAYES may have belonged to,
Please contact me.
I have transcribed the index for all BROWN baptisms in the Bengal
Presidency for the period 1876 to 1884, being the LDS film # 0498518. This
is handwritten so I will look up any names if asked - so if you have a
BROWN child born during this period it will save you the cost of getting
this film. (See Cathy's web page).
Regards to All
A friend of mine has lent me a book called INDIGO by Christine Weston.
Published by Collins, 48 Pall Mall, London, in 1944. The story is set in
India, and is about the British and the Anglo-Indian families of the Indigo
The book is set up, printed and bound in Australia for the Publishers,
Collins Bros. & Co. Ltd., Sydney, by New Century Press Pty.Ltd., 3 North York
St., Sydney. 1944.
I thought that someone may be interested in the book because of it being set
around the Indigo.
I would be interested to know if anyone has information or can suggest
how I can find information about Surgeon Major John WOOD, born Jedburgh
Scotland, who was in India with his wife Marjorie Maxwell ORMISTON from
about 1846 to at least 1857. I understand he was based at Simla and was
in Delhi with the 38th Regiment at the time of the Sepoy rebellion.
The story of their escape from Delhi was well chronicled in the Times
and is also mentioned in the book "Angels of Albion", recently published
by Jane Robinson.
The WOODs migrated to New Zealand in 1862.
I would appreciate help in researching his service in India. Any
suggestions would be most welcome.
Brenton C. Wood
5 Strathspey Avenue
South Australia 5066
Home: +61 8 8379 5384
Bus: +61 8 8218 4903
Fax: +61 8 8212 1909
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Has anyone out there come across a John RATLEY / RAPLEY
in their India travels. It is estimated he served in India
prior to 1810. It is not yet known however if he was military
or East India Company, still trying to pinpoint some
detail in order to find him.