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Recieved from another list.
Thought you would enjoy it.
Jill
----- Original Message -----
> I don't know about you, but sometimes searching for family members gets a
> little overwhelming when you can't seem to knock down that brick wall.
> Here's something on the lighter side...
>
> Some folks will do anything to get a picture of a loved one...
>
> >From the Sep 2000 Reader's Digest:
>
> While I was working for a photofinishing company, we received a
reprint
> order for an old black-and-white photograph of a man milking a cow.
> The man was sitting behind the cow, and all that was visible of him
> were his legs and feet. A note accompanying the order read: "This is the
only
> picture I have of my great-grandfather. Please move the cow so I can see
> what he looked like."
> - contributed by June M. Butler
>
>
The funny lookin one. Just kiddin ma!!! <g>
She is in the middle row, second from the last.
unicorn wrote:
> Kelly,
> Where in that picture is your mom?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kelly (Runyon) Bragg
> To: INDELAWA-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [INDELAWA-L] Jefferson Elementary School 1946
>
> Thanks Sarah!
> My mom just identified another boy in the picture, Bill Parker who
> is standing directly to the left of Harrold Wallace. My mom is also in
> that picture.
>
> Kelly
>
> hawkmoon15(a)earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > Hi Kelly!!
> >
> > You've done it again! I loved seeing the 1946 class at Jefferson
> > Elementery School. You were right about Mr. Kinsey. He was
> > a 5th/6th grade teacher there. The man in the upper left-hand
> > side of the pix is Harrold Wallace, who was the Principal at
> > Jefferson then and at least through the 50's and into the early
> > 60's. Let me take a further look at this pix, as some other
> > folks look familiar to me, but I can't put names to the faces
> > just yet.
> >
> > Thanks again for all that you do for us Hoosiers!
> >
> > Sarah Knecht Jones
> > <hawkmoon15(a)earthlink.net>
>
> ==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
>
> ==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
> Please send any complaints to Kelly at < kab(a)bellsouth.net >
> the new list owner and not to Shawn, he is taken a break for awhile!
Kelly,
Where in that picture is your mom?
----- Original Message -----
From: Kelly (Runyon) Bragg
To: INDELAWA-L(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [INDELAWA-L] Jefferson Elementary School 1946
Thanks Sarah!
My mom just identified another boy in the picture, Bill Parker who
is standing directly to the left of Harrold Wallace. My mom is also in
that picture.
Kelly
hawkmoon15(a)earthlink.net wrote:
> Hi Kelly!!
>
> You've done it again! I loved seeing the 1946 class at Jefferson
> Elementery School. You were right about Mr. Kinsey. He was
> a 5th/6th grade teacher there. The man in the upper left-hand
> side of the pix is Harrold Wallace, who was the Principal at
> Jefferson then and at least through the 50's and into the early
> 60's. Let me take a further look at this pix, as some other
> folks look familiar to me, but I can't put names to the faces
> just yet.
>
> Thanks again for all that you do for us Hoosiers!
>
> Sarah Knecht Jones
> <hawkmoon15(a)earthlink.net>
==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
When it comes to posting on this listserve, if it is about Delaware
County, great! If it is about genealogy, fine! If it has both Delaware
County and genealogy, you can't ask for more!!! Keep up the good work and
thanks to all who submit helpful hints.
I would like to mention that I sometimes see genealogists new to Quaker
records give dates as we use them today, and I shudder.. Briefly as an
example, 1 month, 1 day, 1750, was not Jan 1, 1750. Their first month was
March and their first day was (say the 8?), making Jan in 1749. To
complicate it further was the change in our calendar in 1752. If someone
sends you a date from the Quaker records like we use, one doesn't know if
they have attempted to change the Quaker date to our dating system, or if
they have assumed 1 month, 1 day, 1750, was Jan 1, 1750. To add further to
the confusion, the Quaker meetings did not all change over to our dating
system at the same time, and one doesn't know when a particular meeting
changed. This dating can also account for tombstone inscriptions which used
our dating sytem to appear to not correspond with Quaker birth records. The
dates found in the Quaker records should be quoted as shown. Clear as mud?
I believe the introduction to every volume of Hinshaw's Quaker Records
explains their dating system far better than I.
Also, when one finds a date using our dating sytem that is followed by
O.S, this refers to pre-Gregorian calendar, which differs by eleven days. Or
if you find a date 1748/9, doesn't mean they didn't know, it is relative to
pre-Gregorian. I will let someone else explain the change and affect of
changing over to the Gregorian calendar.
Lou in Indiana
Help! I am trying to obtain a copy of my ggaunt Ellen Evelyn " Ella" Gray Milliken's death certificate. In order to obatain it, I need to know the year of her death. Could someone please do a lookup for me. Her father's name was William Henry Gray. Her mother was Laura Misner. Her d.o.b. was Jan 1876 & her husbands name was Samuel E. MIlliken. I know that she was still living in 1968, according to a letter written to my ggrandfather ( her nephew) from her son, Lester, & that she was a resident of Muncie. I have reason to believe she is buried in Elm Ridge cemetary, but have yet to prove it. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jill
Was your Ellen Gray any relation to the Caroline Gray who married Samuel
Drake in Muncie in the 1870s? don't have a family for her yet.
Barb Marshall
Jill & Craig Childress wrote:
>
> Help! I am trying to obtain a copy of my ggaunt Ellen Evelyn " Ella" Gray Milliken's death certificate. In order to obatain it, I need to know the year of her death. Could someone please do a lookup for me. Her father's name was William Henry Gray. Her mother was Laura Misner. Her d.o.b. was Jan 1876 & her husbands name was Samuel E. MIlliken. I know that she was still living in 1968, according to a letter written to my ggrandfather ( her nephew) from her son, Lester, & that she was a resident of Muncie. I have reason to believe she is buried in Elm Ridge cemetary, but have yet to prove it. Any help would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Jill
>
> ==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
This Harrold Wallace lived on Mound St. just back up the street from
Jefferson. He and his wife lived next door to us when we lived on Mound
Street in the mid-late 1960's. I never went to
Jefferson, but my mother-in-law did in the late teens and early twenties,
and never forgave them for
tearing down the school to build a senior citizens center!
Christine
----- Original Message -----
From: <hawkmoon15(a)earthlink.net>
To: <INDELAWA-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 7:45 PM
Subject: RE: [INDELAWA-L] Jefferson Elementary School 1946
>
> Hi Kelly!!
>
> You've done it again! I loved seeing the 1946 class at Jefferson
> Elementery School. You were right about Mr. Kinsey. He was
> a 5th/6th grade teacher there. The man in the upper left-hand
> side of the pix is Harrold Wallace, who was the Principal at
> Jefferson then and at least through the 50's and into the early
> 60's. Let me take a further look at this pix, as some other
> folks look familiar to me, but I can't put names to the faces
> just yet.
>
> Thanks again for all that you do for us Hoosiers!
>
> Sarah Knecht Jones
> <hawkmoon15(a)earthlink.net>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> "Kelly (Runyon) Bragg" <kab(a)bellsouth.net> Wrote on
> Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:52:07 -0400
> ------------------
> Hello,
> I just added another picture to the Step back in time site of
> Jefferson
> Elementary school, 1946. Hoping somebody can help identify some
> of the
> unknowns in it.....
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/9495/Delawarepix.html
>
> Thanks Kelly
>
>
> ==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
> Please send any complaints to Kelly at < kab(a)bellsouth.net >
> the new list owner and not to Shawn, he is taken a break for
> awhile!
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html )
> The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
>
>
> ==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
>
>
Hi Kelly!!
You've done it again! I loved seeing the 1946 class at Jefferson
Elementery School. You were right about Mr. Kinsey. He was
a 5th/6th grade teacher there. The man in the upper left-hand
side of the pix is Harrold Wallace, who was the Principal at
Jefferson then and at least through the 50's and into the early
60's. Let me take a further look at this pix, as some other
folks look familiar to me, but I can't put names to the faces
just yet.
Thanks again for all that you do for us Hoosiers!
Sarah Knecht Jones
<hawkmoon15(a)earthlink.net>
--- Original Message ---
"Kelly (Runyon) Bragg" <kab(a)bellsouth.net> Wrote on
Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:52:07 -0400
------------------
Hello,
I just added another picture to the Step back in time site of
Jefferson
Elementary school, 1946. Hoping somebody can help identify some
of the
unknowns in it.....
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/9495/Delawarepix.html
Thanks Kelly
==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
Please send any complaints to Kelly at < kab(a)bellsouth.net >
the new list owner and not to Shawn, he is taken a break for
awhile!
-----
Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html )
The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
Rhonda,
Yes, I see your point. Odd. But a lot of ppl buy their headstones before they die. There again, I think you could possibly apply some of the first possibilities I suggested. I have a relative who has two headstones because one was put up by a relative that had little money and gave little information. Later on another, a more prosperous relative had another put up with more information. The first engraver was holding court by then in his own 6 ft space and the second relative had money to burn, I guess. Hence two stones. People can get really wierd about their dead relatives.
Shirl again
----- Original Message -----
From: Smallwood
To: INDELAWA-L(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [INDELAWA-L] Another grave question
Shirl:
Thanks for a lot to think about. I re-read my question, and guess I didn't
mention that both headstones were in the same row, and his first and second
wife are buried there, along with some of their children and grandchildren.
I just thought it strange that he had 2 gravestones, and couldn't figure out
why. Both are old, old stones. Thanks! Rhonda
==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
Recently a question was posed to another good list I'm on in Illinois. Not only was the question valid and interesting but some of the suggestions offered and other useful information proferred were excellent and thought provoking. I thought sharing some of this with this list might prove interesting and, hopefully, helpful at sometime in your searches. Perhaps our fearless list leader would also have some suggestions or comments. Read on....
"Another question for the group......
How can different dates on the actual death certificate versus what is engraved on the headstone be reconciled??? I wouldn't worry if it was a year or two or three...but I am looking at a discrepancy of almost 15 years. The headstone math equals 81 years old, yet the legal death certificate states she was 66 years old. Which takes precedent in research ??? BTW I am sure that I have the correct death certificate and gravesite.
Does anyone know of a newsgroup where I can post questions like this one and quit going off topic undoubtedly to everyone's aggravation :-) ?"
The answers and suggestions were many and varied:
"Again, I personally think this is a legitimate question for the list but like someone else said, maybe the list owner should decide that. I've run into descrepancies too and with little experience, I have no clue as to what to do. There's a lot of experienced ppl on here who can help and I think that's what it's all about."
"Just a thought, but why not contact the engraver of the stone and have him check his records?"
"Oh Boy....Good Luck. Maybe you have two different people. But, remember the information for the death certificate is usually recorded at the time of death. The family member giving that information is upset; to them the date of birth is not important.
Also, there might have been a language problem.
Fifteen Years: could have been the marriage date, the date that they arrived in this country.
One of the questions on some death certificates was how long the person had been a resident.
Or maybe they just lied about their age.
There is a 3-4 year problem with my grandfather's age. One possible solution is that when he arrived in the US, if he subtracted a few years, he would be considered part of his parent's family group and not an individual.
Then again, people did not celebrate birthdays like they do now. In fact, some groups celebrated "name days". The feast day of the saint that they were named for.
Then again, there are errors on the tombstones, and some families did not have the money to have them corrected."
"Then again,
I heard about a fellow in (town name), who finally saved up enough money to send for his wife. By that time, his wife had died (but the fellow didn't know this). So, who arrived in the US? The younger sister. Apparently the mother-in-law considered him a good catch. All the paper work had been done in the sisters name, so the younger sister had to use that name."
"Someone said, "Genealogy without documentation is Mythology" and I couldn't agree more. Neither of your documented pieces of information should take precidence. They are both equally valid/invalid until and if one is
determined as the factual one.
Two sources of habitual misinformation are the LDS site and information from the DAR. Once an error is put in as a fact it remains there. This can be a typo, a 'best guess' or anything verbal that was a variant spelling.
I think it is important to site all sources that contain conflicting
information, that way it still has a chance of being pursued by someone else. And yes, it does get very messy because we just don't all fall into neat pyramids!
Until I can find better proof, I have two sets of paternal gg-grandparents. Both legal, both biological, and both documented. Go figure! (I'm still trying.)
I use Ancestry.com and have found it somewhat useful, but there was nothing another genealogy site would not have (ie: SSDS and such)."
"Perhaps checking a couple of the census for her age might help verify."
"Another good question. I wouldn't dream of saying I know the answer, but do know that it happens more often than we would like to think it would.
There could be many factors at play here. The most obvious one is that the stone was placed some time after the actual death. That happens fairly often. Perhaps no one in the family had the money for the tombstone at the time of death and later, when a grandchild grew up or another descendant reached financial security, someone had the marker placed.
It would be helpful to know the date of death recorded on the tombstone and the date of death recorded on the death certificate. (Name of deceased and place not necessary.) Did he/she have a surviving spouse? Were the children still in the area, or had most or all moved away? Was it a Civil War death?
Many circumstances can come into play about having a stone placed. In my own family two come immediately to mind, one too recent to even mention here. The other was my "discovery" of one of my great grandmother's tombstone error. She died in 1943, come to find out (years of research). (I live far from her place of burial, as do all her other descendants.)
When finally able to find the cemetery of her family, her stone was found and a picture taken, also recording the information in a notebook, at the same time.
A book written on the family noted that her death year was 1943, but the tombstone said 1948. So, I wrote the author of the book, with the request for a correction on her death date. She wrote back that she seemed to recall it was during the war, and she was pretty sure 1943 was correct. All of my efforts to obtain a death certificate failed. About five years later I was able to visit the site again, and this time able to look at the death registers myself, and found her at the bottom of the page. The people who work there had missed her three times (and $18. worth!) It was 1943. So, the stone cutters had made the error.
Perhaps it was 1948 before the family could afford a stone, and the error was made in that way. They are all gone, so that remains a mystery. 15 years is a big discrepancy, but perhaps the digits involved are ones susceptible to misinterpretation, as in the 3 and 8. Regardless, a death certificate is usually reliable in regards to the date of death, since it was recorded at the time, or primary evidence. Perhaps if you can locate an
obituary or death notice for this person in the newspaper microfilms of the local library where the person died (start with the date recorded on the death certificate) your mystery may be solved."
"Actually, tombstones are considered secondary evidence.
An actual death certificate is recognized as a primary document.
The census is another resource that could help out in this case (again, the years in question would help this discussion!), as was mentioned. Also the newspaper death notices or obits, as well as all the obvious other resources, including probate records and deeds in the courthouse, tax lists depending on the years in question and sex of deceased, and military pension records if a widow or a pensioner.
Human error, however, is possible in everything we do!
Your point about spelling variations is also an excellent point."
"A few more thoughts: Compare the age of her siblings.
If she had children, when were they born? Most women in my family stopped having children when they were in their mid to late forties. You just might have to wait and see if the records from her village become available. I am waiting for my Grandmother's.
Regarding the census: my grandmother's age doesn't match up on any of them.
Sometimes you don't find out until you get a copy of her baptism? from the old county. But then again, be careful. A child is born, baptized "Barbara", the child dies, the next girl will be named "Barbara". If she dies, the third, fourth and so on. It happens.
Regarding the tombstone: In my family, the person purchasing the stone, "lost" the money. It took a few more years before a stone was purchased. This was the same person that could not remember his grandmother's name for his father's death certificate."
"I have come across the same situation. If you take into consideration that the death certificate is being scribbled out by a third party dealing with grieving family members, its a wonder there isn't more mistakes. Generally by the time the stone is ordered, everyone is thinking in a calmer state of mind and info. tends to be better. Of course if the next of kin isn't close - could be both dates are wrong."
"It seems that headstones are often wrong for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they are ordered years after a person is buried by an individual who does not know the correct date. As a general rule, an official document is a little more trustworthy. Your next step would be to find a marriage certificate, birth certificate and/or bible entry to substantiate your data."
"Thats the truth my "person's name" is buried in "cemetery name" in "town name". It is a Military Marker I understand but other than his name there is no dates I contacted the office and they have no information on him either. The county has no death certificate and the State either. His obituary we finally found he died in "town name" his body went to the coronor's office so I have an E-mail sent to them to see if they could find his file. He died Jan. 23, 1917. No dates just his name on the headstone."
"Just to add to the discussion: I have a G.Grandmother who was either 62, 68, 69, 70 or 72 at the age of her death, depending on what document or certificate you looked at!
I stopped trying to figure it out and decided to go with the date on her birth document."
"We need to accept conflicting information and not assume one is correct to the extent that other information gets lost if it potentially accurate. Genealogy research would be relatively simple if we all had the same information. I am truly enjoying this despite the fact that I know I may never get to the bottom of some of my searches."
~~~~ end ~~~~
I recently visited the cemetery where several people of one family were buried. One ancestor had two gravestones, about 5 or 6 plots from each other. Neither was by either of his wives' grave. Same dates, same guy. Why would there be two stones? Thanks. Rhonda
Anyone researching the GOEBEL surname in Delaware Co? I am looking for
information on a Edward GOEBEL, who married Ida LEONARD June 14, 1900.
Ida was the daughter of George LEONARD and Eliza NICHOLS, (George was a
traveling medicine man). I found a birth record for a male born July 26
1902 in Delaware Co, to Edward GOEBEL and Iva HENARD. My guess is that
this is the same person under a major spelling error. Would anyone
happen to know for sure?
Thank you,
Kelly
Forwarded from Grant Cnty list. Just in case.....
----- Original Message -----
From: MAKientz(a)aol.com
To: INGRANT-L(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 9:11 AM
Subject: Cochran
found this on the internet and thought someone might like to check it out
Marge Kientz
>From Somebody's Links, Vol. 2, No. 13
I have three photos probably taken between 1880 and 1920 my
mother-in-law bought at a rummage sale in Upland, Grant County,
Indiana: (1) One photo is of a woman. On the back is handwritten
"Ed COCHRAN # 3 $1.00" and on the front is "RICE Photography,
Miami and Market Streets, Wabash, Indiana"; (2) a young
gentleman, perhaps in his late 20s or early 30s; (3) child of
perhaps two years. If anyone has a relation to Ed COCHRAN of
Wabash, Indiana, please contact me. I'd love to return these
treasures to their rightful family.
Julie Ward poohbear(a)comteck.com
Sybil -
I'm sorry, I've looked through what I have and could find nothing
on your Laura Montgomery. Good Luck in your search. Marilyn
Sybil Montgomery wrote:
> Marilyn:
>
> Do you know of a (male) Maddox who married Laura Montgomery b. 1906. Laura
> lived in IN all of her life. They had a son Daniel Swift Maddox born c.
> 1929 in IN.
>
> Thank U for Ur assistance.
>
> Sybil
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marilyn Shields" <auntiem7(a)ameritech.net>
> To: <INDELAWA-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2000 1:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [INDELAWA-L] 1900 census volunteer
>
> > Ellie -
> >
> > The household with Mary E Maddox, son George, and Grandaughter
> > Beulah is the right location I think....but I'm really confused. Where
> > is her mother Laura Bowers Maddox? I'm sure she was alive because
> > she outlived George and married twice after that. I wonder if there
> > was a divorce? It would have been so uncommon in those days
> > wouldn't it? Also, I'm nearly sure Beulah had a brother George.
> > I'm not sure if he's older or younger. Do Laura and George show
> > up seperately somewhere? I'm sorry to be such a bother. I
> > appreciate what you did find. I wasn't aware that Mary made her
> > home with George after his father died in 1898. Thanks for your
> > time and if you can do more research I'll appreciate it; if you don't
> > have time, I'll understand. I don't want to take advantage of your
> > kindness. Marilyn Shields
> >
> > Elinora Brown wrote:
> >
> > > Marilyn, I found a Laura Maddox in Mt Pleasant Twsp ... Head of
> > > household born July 1821 in Ohio . father in Va mother in Ohio.
> > > Grand daug Bertha Wright born Oct 1869 and gg daug Edith Wright born
> > > Mar 1890. Pg 214 a...
> > > Another head of house Mary E Maddox born Sep 1846 Son George born
> > > June 1873 and Buhla g Dau born Nov 1893......pg 212a
> > > Should I keep looking???
> > > Ellie
> > > Marilyn Shields wrote:
> > >
> > > > >From the 1900 Census -
> > > > I would like any information available from the household of
> > > > George Maddox & Laura Bower Maddox. It should
> > > > include Beulah Maddox who would be about 7 and
> > > > I think she had a brother also named George, not sure
> > > > if there were any more. I'm especially interested in where
> > > > Laura was born. I haven't yet been able to track down her
> > > > ancestry. Thanks for your willingness to help! Marilyn Shields
> > > >
> > > > ==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
> > >
> > > ==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
> >
> >
> > ==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
> > Please send any complaints to Kelly at < kab(a)bellsouth.net >
> > the new list owner and not to Shawn, he is taken a break for awhile!
> >
> >
>
> ==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
> Step Back In Time To Delaware County
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~kellyrunyon/Stepbackintime.html
Marilyn, I found a Laura Maddox in Mt Pleasant Twsp ... Head of
household born July 1821 in Ohio . father in Va mother in Ohio.
Grand daug Bertha Wright born Oct 1869 and gg daug Edith Wright born
Mar 1890. Pg 214 a...
Another head of house Mary E Maddox born Sep 1846 Son George born
June 1873 and Buhla g Dau born Nov 1893......pg 212a
Should I keep looking???
Ellie
Marilyn Shields wrote:
> >From the 1900 Census -
> I would like any information available from the household of
> George Maddox & Laura Bower Maddox. It should
> include Beulah Maddox who would be about 7 and
> I think she had a brother also named George, not sure
> if there were any more. I'm especially interested in where
> Laura was born. I haven't yet been able to track down her
> ancestry. Thanks for your willingness to help! Marilyn Shields
>
> ==== INDELAWA Mailing List ====
Hello all,
I finally got my family genealogy AKA "Virginia's Family Genealogy" on the
site.
I've been trying to get it on there since April!!
If you're connected to Brown, Vanarsdol, Gibson, Lee and Many collateral
lines, come
grab an ancestor or two. Maybe we can swap some information.
Virginia
====Indiana Heritage====
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~acorntree/