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Hi gang,
Here I am bothering you again. Let's see, where to begin.
The system/program sending out ballots is still messed up. It seems nobody in WS, or was
it MN, got a NC/bylaws ballot. One of the eastern regions got CC ballots for another
region instead of their own. They fixed the glitches they know about in the ballot
counting process. We have had at least one more CC who got back from vacation and didn't
find a ballot. Lucy, you got yours, right? Everyone please check the names and region on
your ballots before you vote to make sure it is correct.
Remember when I suggested you vote early? Forget I said that. I think I'll wait until the
glitches have been smoothed out.
The list moderator on the usgenweb-all-l list has been George Waller since the first of
July, instead of Linda Lewis. I was glad to see that. He has often been the voice of
reason on that list. He has changed the settings so that anyone can post to the list,
including the 90% of the project who are not subscribed. However, someone has threatened
him with a law suit and he says he's going to resign as list moderator.
The North Carolina state coordinator, Diane Miller, abruptly resigned last evening. She
deleted all the state pages from her server when she left. Her resignation letter makes
it clear she was angry at the way the project has been going lately. However she doesn't
say what the final staw was. She was exchanging email with Linda Lewis less than an hour
earlier and Linda says she doesn't know what happened.
So, if you want to visit the North Carolina pages you can find a page at
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncgenweb/ with links to all or most of the county pages. The CCs
are talking about electing a replacement.
In an unrelated matter, what do all of you think about moving our state pages off
rootsweb?
Elaine Johnson
Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
Linda is NOT the listowner on the -all list, George Waller is. She gave
it up when she became a candidate.
My guess as to why your mail isn't appearing there is that it's a
similar problem to what there was on the SC list; address variations.
megan
Elaine Johnson wrote:
>
> I suspect the reason we don't remember things the same way was that we started the
> discussion with a misunderstanding. You began by talking about the .com link only. I
> responded thinking you meant their location at .com. I did ask Lucy to change the .com
> links to .net or .org. I'm sure we'll always remember it differently since we started
> from different places.
>
> The reason I included that in the background was that it happened at the same time. I
> had you after me for one thing and Linda after me for another. The difference, and its a
> big one, is that you were polite and gracious about it.
>
> P.S. Do you suppose this will actually appear on the ALL-L list? Neither of my last two
> did. Why is she the listowner there instead of someone without an agenda?
>
> Megan Z. wrote:
> > Elaine:
> >
> > My recollection of the situation is nearly the opposite of that: I told
> > you that people were noticing that Lucy's stuff was ON .com, pointed
> > only to .com as USGW link, etc., and that we had a problem, what did you
> > want to do about this? Your response was that you would do *nothing*
> > whatsoever about it and that THAT was not negotiable.
> >
> > I have always recognized that Lucy's pages were an anomaly, since any
> > claim by .com to page ownership is irrelevant when the pageowner is also
> > the system and domain owner; however, it was distinctly disconcerting to
> > hear from you that you would defend her right to link to .com as the
> > USGW link to the point of not even being willing to talk to her about
> > it.
> >
> > megan
> >
> > Elaine Johnson wrote:
> > The
> > > board demanded that all seven counties in western Idaho which are owned by Lucy Dill
> > > <gasp> be removed immediately from IDGenWeb. (Seven out of forty-four is a big number.)
> > > There was no room for discussion. The order wasn't that I should ask her to move her
> > > pages, or have the domain name changed. It was, "Off with her head!" I responded that
> > > every county site was within the guidelines posted on the USGenWeb national pages, that
> > > Lucy was doing a good job maintaining those pages and responding to researchers, and
> > > that as long as these things were true I would not remove those counties from the
> > > IDGenWeb Project. That ended the matter as far as I know.
> >
> > --
> > Megan Zurawicz, National Coordinator USGenWeb
> > pigolit(a)ix.netcom.com * cochonnet(a)aol.com
> >
>
> Elaine Johnson
> Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
--
Megan Zurawicz, National Coordinator USGenWeb
pigolit(a)ix.netcom.com * cochonnet(a)aol.com
I really have to applaud Elaine's patience for putting up with all that has
been going on lately. It's rather scary when one state coordinator quits,
and makes me wonder if more won't follow suit. I know that if Elaine were
to get REALLY pissed off and quit that I would follow right behind her--she
has my full support :-)
Anyway, I think it sounds like a good idea to move Idaho's state pages off
rootsweb. What do the rest of you think?
Mary Simonsen
Coordinator for the Idaho Indian Reservations
>In an unrelated matter, what do all of you think about moving our state
pages off
>rootsweb?
>
>Elaine Johnson
>Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
>http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
>
>
>
At 10:47 PM 7/6/98 +0000, you wrote:
<<snip>>
>
>In an unrelated matter, what do all of you think about moving our state
pages off
>rootsweb?
>
>Elaine Johnson
>Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
>http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
>
I think the reasons for moving off of ROOTSWEB should be clearly enunciated
before any change is made.
1. Is it an access issue? Is the current serve slow and/or unreliable?
2. What does moving off of the server gain for the state program? Are the
server managers slow to respond, or unwilling to help in solving problems?
The county pages that I manage are not on ROOTSWEB. My server is very
reliable, so I never saw any advantage to moving onto ROOTSWEB. I am not
opposed to moving the state pages off of the ROOTSWEB server; but feel the
move should be proactive and not reactive. Frustration are very high on
all sides now, but let's think of the ID GenWeb project. What will best
serve the researchers visiting our state site?
Until I hear some very good reasons for making the change, I say stay at
ROOTSWEB. Of course I reserve the right to change my mind -- I have so much
practice at it.
This is a wonderful project, so let's spend time and energy on making IDAHO
a real online resource for researchers. Some of the other states are just
jealous because they don't have some of the beatiful scenery and mild
summer climate we have. (At least it's lovely here on the Palouse this
time of year.)
**************************************************************************
* Ms. Robbie Love Giles http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~giles/index.htm *
* giles(a)wsu.edu GOTCHER Family HomePage *
* http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~giles/gotcher/gotcher.htm *
**************************************************************************
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: "Kay Mason" <kmfkm(a)ptw.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 05:59:41 -0700
Subject: Re: [STATE-COORD-L] Election question
Priority: normal
To: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Reply-to: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
The County Coordinators vote for two (2) candidates.
The Abstain category is there for those who want to be on record,
but who do not want to vote yes or no.
The YES votes will be counted, but the NO votes won't be counted,
we will probably put the Abstain's in as a footnote.
Is this clear as mud?
Kay Mason
<at 5:27am> <grin>
Date forwarded: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:43:50 -0700 (PDT)
Date sent: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:10:37 -0400
From: Tim Stowell <tstowell(a)mccallie.org>
Subject: [STATE-COORD-L] Election question
To: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Forwarded by: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Send reply to: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
> One of my CCs asks this question:
>
> It is unclear on the CC election - you say vote for two, they say vote
> for one? Which is it. Haven't voted for any yet. Also what is the
> difference between a no vote and a blank vote and a abstain vote? All
> three are mentioned in different instructions, and there seems to be some
> difference between a No and an Abstain? I've only voted in various
> elections for the last 25 years, but I have never voted No for a candidate.
> Is this a negative vote? Do a No vote and a Yes vote offset each other.
> Is it possible for a candidate to receive negative votes?
>
> Tim Stowell
> State Coordinator - NDGenWeb Project
>
USGenWeb Census Project
http://www.usgenweb.org/census/http://www.usgenweb.net/census/http://www.usgenweb.com/census/
Kansas Unknown Counties
http://skyways.lib.ks.us/kansas/genweb/unknown
USGenWeb Archives
Oklahoma File Manager
The Tombstone Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~cemetery/
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: "Kay Mason" <kmfkm(a)ptw.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 17:53:39 -0700
Subject: Re: [STATE-COORD-L] Re: National Coordinator Vote Ack
Priority: normal
To: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Reply-to: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Please share this with your County Coordinators. Thank you
The email addresses of the voters in the USGW elections will not
be released to any candidate, or representative of any candidate,
nor will they be posted online by the election committee.
The ACK (acknowledgement) quoted was sent mistakenly.. As
soon as it was discovered it was immediately changed.
Thank you
Kay Mason
Election Committee
The USGenWeb Project
Date forwarded: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
Date sent: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 15:45:51 -0400
From: Susan W Pieroth <pieroth(a)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [STATE-COORD-L] Re: National Coordinator Vote
Ack
To: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Forwarded by: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Send reply to: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
> A question about this portions of the automatic response for the NC vote
> was posted on the ALL list and, unfortunately, never answered. At least
> I don't think I missed it in the middle of all the flying accusations.
>
> vote-nc(a)ne-2.rootsweb.com wrote:
> <snip>
> > This is a public vote, and all addresses and votes
> > will be listed in the final voting results.
>
> I understood the above sentence to mean that a page listing those who
> had voted would be posted. This was probably in response to someone
> asking how they might know if all their CCs had voted. The final voting
> results I expected to be listed on a separate, and unrelated, page.
>
> Unfortunately, the questioner assumed that each person's email address
> and vote would be listed together on one page. Could someone from the
> election committee please post a response to the ALL list clarifying
> this - not necessarily today, but within the week?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Susan
> --
> Susan W. Pieroth * mailto:pieroth@ix.netcom.com * USGenWeb Rhode Island
> Coordinator RIGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~rigenweb/ RI Mailing List
> Index to Personal Genealogy Pages ~o~ http://www.rootsweb.com/~scwhite/
>
USGenWeb Census Project
http://www.usgenweb.org/census/http://www.usgenweb.net/census/http://www.usgenweb.com/census/
Kansas Unknown Counties
http://skyways.lib.ks.us/kansas/genweb/unknown
USGenWeb Archives
Oklahoma File Manager
The Tombstone Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~cemetery/
_____________________
Elaine Johnson
mailto:elaine@usroots.com
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: "Kay Mason" <kmfkm(a)ptw.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:24:55 -0700
Priority: normal
Subject: [STATE-COORD-L] problem ballots
To: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Reply-to: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Please share this with your County Coordinators. Thank you.
There is a problem with some of the ballots sent out for the County
Coordinator Representative and State Coordinator Representative
elections..they do not have the "Vote Marker" on them. When the
ballot is returned, the voting software will send the voter an error
message.
The new Corrected Ballot is contained in the error message. The
voter should then vote again, using the Corrected Ballot.
If there is not a corrected ballot in the error message, then they
voter should contact:
<vote-owner(a)usgenweb.org>
and a new ballot will be sent to the person.
Also, the voters in the County Coordinator Representative Election
should vote for two (2) candidates.
If a voter changes his mind, it is possible to vote again. The
software will invalidate the first (or previous) vote, and the new vote
will be counted.
Thank you,
Kay Mason
Election Committee
USGenWeb Census Project
http://www.usgenweb.org/census/http://www.usgenweb.net/census/http://www.usgenweb.com/census/
Kansas Unknown Counties
http://skyways.lib.ks.us/kansas/genweb/unknown
USGenWeb Archives
Oklahoma File Manager
The Tombstone Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~cemetery/
_____________________
Elaine Johnson
mailto:elaine@usroots.com
To my fellow state coordinators,
I apologize for believing you were all ignoring me and our
difficulties at IDGenWeb. I may even have implied the same.
It seems none of my messages have been getting through to either the
SC list or ALL-L. I felt like I was screaming in a hurricane and no
one came to help. That is part of why I was angry.
I did try to stop Linda before she cut away part of IDGenWeb, but no
one saw the message. I wondered why no one even cared so I started
thinking poorly of the people on the SC list. I'm sorry.
I'll be reposting a few things from the past week, mostly just for
the record. The matter is over as far as I'm concerned.
Elaine Johnson
Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
[posted to USGenWeb-ALL-L, as well as others, but it probably won't show up there because
the last two didn't.]
George Waller wrote:
> The phrasing was what I intended. Your post IMHO was an attack on Linda.
>
I will defend myself and my state's project from Linda. If others take that as an attack
against her, so be it. If she leaves us alone from now on, we'll leave her alone. That's
all we want, for her to leave us alone.
>
> Your Idaho representative may have missed that note. Have you contacted him
> directly? That would be a courteous thing to do rather than malign him here.
If I intended to malign him, I would have mentioned his name. Only someone who REALLY
wants to know who it is would wade through all the national pages to find it. I've never
wanted to know that badly.
> I wrote:
> > A little background for those who don't know.
Background, not the real issue. Now we're back to he said/she said and Linda is ALWAYS
right. A rule written somewhere, I think. Its an old and boring pattern.
> > The *Advisory* Board announced that. . .
>
> You emphasize *Advisory* ... please keep in mind that the board (and I'm a
> member as you may recall) is advisory to the NC.
So, why does Linda, as a member of the board, keep telling people what to do? Shouldn't
she be advising the NC and leaving the rest of us alone?
> In fact, I believe the Dill controversy was quietly ended
> until some people started using that situation as an example where the board
> was bad. People trying to help him actually kept his name
> constantly on this lists... something I'm sure he disliked.
Yes, I agree with you here. Linda is also one of the people keeping it alive.
>
> > One of our fault finding visitors, who I won't name even though I remember who
> > he was, noticed that not only was Lucy Dill an Idaho CC <gasp> but that her
> > county pages were located at usgenweb.com.
> >
> > Suddenly the Board was saying ALL sites and pages and ALL links to ANY sites
> > or pages ANYWHERE on usgenweb.com were illegal and grounds for removal from
> > the Project. The board demanded that all seven counties in western Idaho which
> > are owned by Lucy Dill <gasp> be removed immediately from IDGenWeb. (Seven out
> > of forty-four is a big number.) There was no room for discussion. The order
> > wasn't that I should ask her to move her pages, or have the domain name
> > changed. It was, "Off with her head!" I responded that every county site was
> > within the guidelines posted on the USGenWeb national pages, that Lucy was
> > doing a good job maintaining those pages and responding to researchers, and
> > that as long as these things were true I would not remove those counties from
> > the IDGenWeb Project. That ended the matter as far as I know.
>
> Elaine, there is a lot of misinformation in this paragraph. As a board member
> I have a good recollection of this situation. The board never said links were
> illegal or grounds for removal. We requested that links be changed and stated
> that the national page would not link to .com.
>
I don't post misinformation, except by accident, and I don't tell lies. Lucy's pages were
located at usgenweb.com. That is why I was told to remove her pages from IDGenWeb. The
links on her pages were a different issue which got all mixed up with it. I did and do
wonder if people were going to every county in every state and checking the links and
running back to the board so the board could handle it directly, or if only Idaho was
graced with such personal attention.
> > Still background, but I'm almost there. The week before the above happened,
> > Jerry contacted me with the question, would I mind if the Idaho Genealogical
> > Society mirrored the files from our archives at their web site. I told him I
> > had no objection, but that he would of course need the permission of all the
> > contributors who owned the copyrights. He then contacted each of these
> > persons. A few said it was OK with them, but many objected. They were already
> > uneasy with the safety of their files where they were and weren't comfortable
> > putting them at a site that MIGHT, sometime in the future, decide to sell the
> > files for profit. Also, we had been buffeted by the storm surge for the past
> > few months. We had been told over and over that Jerry and Lucy were evil and
> > out to get us. We knew then, and we know now, that they are not evil. This
> > made us wary of the national archive coordinator.
>
> This isn't clear. Are you suggesting that Linda herself said "over and over"
> that Jerry and Lucy were evil? I do see here that many file owners objected
> to Jerry's desire to mirror them (this becomes important below).
It must not be clear because you completely missed what I intended to say. As part
of the BACKGROUND, I was illustrating the general attitude which prevails, especially
with Linda. She is punishing all IDGenWeb because she hates a couple of our volunteers. I
never saw her write the word evil, but she has implied it repeatedly.
It wasn't Jerry's desire to mirror them and it wasn't Jerry they were expressing
reservations about. Someone else wanted to mirror the files, asked him, and he passed the
request on to us. This will shock you, but we trust Jerry.
> Linda's job is to protect the
> archives.
At the expense of state projects? Is she protecting the files from the OWNERS of the
files now?
>
> > 2-Linda did not inform the volunteers at IDGenWeb that we were suddenly
> > without a file manager.
> >
> > 3-Linda did not ask any of the volunteers in the IDGenWeb Project if any of us
> > were interested in being the archive file manager.
> >
> > 4-Linda did not contact me asking for suggestions for a new file manager. I
> > found out the post was vacant by accident. I had recently joined the ALL-L
> > list to try and figure out what was going on.
> >
> > 5-Before I even had a chance to say anything, Linda had filled the vacancy
> > with someone who had no real interest in the state. (No animosity against that
> > person. She was caught in the middle.)
> >
> > 6-Linda did not inform me or anyone else at IDGenWeb that the position had been
> > filled or by whom. I found out the name on the state coordinator's mailing
> > list. Not even cc'd to me.
>
> Items 2 thru 6 amount to the same thing. I don't believe Linda has any
> obligation to involve IDGenWeb in the choice of a FM, but (assuming a good
> relationship) I would hope she would. My guess is that there is not a good
> relationship and that it is a result of the Dill controversy. Please note
> that some of the archives state fm's existed before the XXGenWeb page even
> existed.
The bad relationship is not of our doing. We have done nothing to Linda Lewis except not
hate Jerry. IDGenWeb does not deserve this kind of treatment. We are not some third rate
bunch of hicks from some third rate state who have no right to respect and consideration.
We do deserve respect and consideration. Our opinions and concerns are important. We do
have a right to a say in what happens with the IDAHO archive which we built and of which
we own many of the copyrights.
IDGenWeb existed before there was even a separate archive directory for Idaho. We had
about ten counties with sites already up when Jerry agreed to be the file manager. But,
what does that have to do with it? Many of the County Coordinators do not know Linda
except from her actions the last few months. Most don't trust her.
> I would be very, very
> upset if the files I've collected for Lincoln Co TN were removed by someone
> I barely know
We DO know Jerry. We have been working with him to build the archives for more than a
year. I have always included the name of the file manager with the CCs on the private
mailing list. We are working toward the same goals. Most of the CCs don't know Linda.
>and put onto some server that I know nothing about.
How do you know a server? :)
Did Jerry
> get permission from all the file owners before doing this for Idaho? Did he
> ask you?
It was poorly handled in the rush and confusion. Everyone knew where the files were
within hours of them being placed there. Everyone had the option of asking that their
files be removed. I'll say it again, none did. The number of file OWNERS who want some or
all of their files removed from Linda's control is now up to four, that I know of, and
that's just within IDGenWeb.
>
> > 8-Linda had joined the Idaho research list a day or so earlier. (This is a
> > different list than the private CC list, though many CC are on it.) She did
> > not see her message on that list so she posted a copy there saying that
> > someone had told her it didn't appear. Over the next two weeks that list lost
> > 1/3 of its subscribers.
>
> This could have been avoided if the files had not been removed from Rootsweb.
> Not sure why you lay the blame at Linda's feet.
Wow, you missed this one. Did you see the lie? She was on the list. She said "someone
told her" it didn't go there. She didn't know I knew as soon as she subscribed. I could
have removed her but we had nothing to hide from her. Her post was an airing of our dirty
laundry in public. She scared away our RESEARCHERS! She publicly damaged the reputation
of IDGenWeb and by extension USGenWeb. She did a bad thing. The list had been growing. It
still isn't back up to the number it was at before. You bet I blame Linda for that.
>
> > I sent another message to the same three addresses (list, Linda, Ray) and said
> > that the files from the Idaho archives were owned by the submitters and those
> > submitters and the other County Coordinators who had a direct interest would
> > be the ones to decide what happened to those files. It wasn't up to me, or
> > Linda, or Jerry. It was up to the file's owners.
> >
> > 9-Linda responded that it wasn't up to us what happened to our files and we
> > had no say in the matter at all. We weren't even allowed a discussion on the
> > matter. Its two days later and now she says there IS an archive rule that the
> > files must be located at Rootsweb.
>
> I agree with Linda. This becomes a sore point every so often. The rules of
> the archives are very specific. (In fact, I wrote this rule in June 1996).
I don't think its legal, George. I think it is at odds with federal copyright law. And as
a file owner who posted family information in the archives I really, really don't like
it. I want those files far away from the current archives.
Didn't you read the last sentence? She said one thing first and the opposite two days
later. The only guideline (not rule) is that the table of contents be located at
Rootsweb. Isn't there another state with archive files actually located and/or mirrored
elsewhere? I think so.
>
> We donate files to the archives out of love for genealogy, with no strings
> attached, for the benefit of present and future genealogists forever.
Yes, but if we lose the trust we had in the caretaker (Linda, not Jerry) we will
certainly take steps to protect our files. The IDGenWeb volunteers are not the
only ones to regret ever putting their files in the archives. Don't ask me to name names,
I won't. Nobody needs Linda's wrath.
>
> > I waited and thought for a few days. Jerry was out of town on business anyway.
> > I had an idea. I sent Linda a placating, subservient message about how we
> > really needed an archive manager who we were comfortable with and already
> > trusted and as a compromise could I suggest the name of such a person. Linda
> > said "Yes!" (I can put quotes on that because I remember that's exactly what
> > she said.
>
> I gather this is something good that Linda did, and that you agreed on a new
> FM? Probably Donovan mentioned below?
No, I don't think it was a good thing. She should have been willing to discuss the
matter reasonably and respectfully without, "a placating, subservient message," from me.
> If I follow this correctly (from what you said high above), Jerry
> originally asked permission from the file owners to copy them but some said no.
See above. It wasn't Jerry who wanted to copy them. He was passing along a request from
someone else.
>
> > Since that time Dovovan has been, with Jerry's support, reloading all the
> > files to the Rootsweb site, including the files that Jerry finished AFTER
> > Linda fired him. He has Jerry's permission to use the county table of contents
> > from Jerry's site and paste them onto the Rootsweb site so he won't have to
> > start from scratch. Jerry's site at ROOTSQUEST has been acting as a much
> > needed mirror for OUR files while Donovan rebuilds.
>
> I'd suggest you ask Jerry about the current status of this. My belief is that
> there was no need to reload files. In any case, sounds like things are getting
> back to normal.
I don't have to ask Jerry. I do know what is happening within IDGenWeb. All the files
were not there. Notice please, "including the files that Jerry finished AFTER Linda
fired him," and remember the table of contents. The files are useless if no one can find
them. Things were getting back to normal until Linda sabotaged us again.
> >
> > 12-Linda threatened them with civil suit if they did not remove the files. Not
> > her files, OUR files. To protect USIGS from a nuisance suit Jerry was forced
> > to remove the files and table of contents from the rootsquest site.
>
> Once again, please check with Jerry. As I understand it, the problem was that
> Jerry took the files without permission of the submitters. Nobody cares where
> files are mirrored so long as the original submitter gives permission.
???Why then, did Linda threaten our mirror site with legal action??? Once again, I don't
have to ask Jerry. I do know what is happening within IDGenWeb. Is only IDGenWeb's mirror
site bad, or is it only that the mirror site belonged to Jerry? We needed that mirror
site but she didn't care.
> > Idaho's archives have been crippled twice now by Linda's vendetta. Researchers >
> can't find the files. CCs can't find the files. Notice please I said IDAHO'S >
> ARCHIVES. Linda didn't submit those files, Linda didn't transcribe those > files, Linda
> doesn't own the copyright on those files, and Linda can't tell > the LEGAL OWNERS of
> those files where they may or may not choose to post > those files. All of the
> copyright owners had the ability to ask Jerry to > remove them from his site. None did
> so.
>
> As I understand your history of this, Jerry created the problem. Please check
> with Jerry. You are 100% right about the rights of the submitters/owners of
> the files. But the problem is that Jerry removed the files without permission
> of the submitters and copied them to another server without permission. That
> is the crux of the problem as I see it. Of course, I am assuming that you have
> the facts straight about what Jerry did. My apologies to Jerry if some of
> this is incorrect.
[You know that sound Charlie Brown makes when he tries to kick the football and ends up
flying through the air? Insert that sound here.] Please believe, I don't have to ask
Jerry. I do know what is happening within IDGenWeb.
The crux of the problem here is the complete lack of respect and total disregard for the
well-being of IDGenWeb, and our patrons, that Linda has shown us over the course of
several months! That is why I told her to STAY AWAY from us. We will not be destroyed.
Elaine Johnson
Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
I suspect the reason we don't remember things the same way was that we started the
discussion with a misunderstanding. You began by talking about the .com link only. I
responded thinking you meant their location at .com. I did ask Lucy to change the .com
links to .net or .org. I'm sure we'll always remember it differently since we started
from different places.
The reason I included that in the background was that it happened at the same time. I
had you after me for one thing and Linda after me for another. The difference, and its a
big one, is that you were polite and gracious about it.
P.S. Do you suppose this will actually appear on the ALL-L list? Neither of my last two
did. Why is she the listowner there instead of someone without an agenda?
Megan Z. wrote:
> Elaine:
>
> My recollection of the situation is nearly the opposite of that: I told
> you that people were noticing that Lucy's stuff was ON .com, pointed
> only to .com as USGW link, etc., and that we had a problem, what did you
> want to do about this? Your response was that you would do *nothing*
> whatsoever about it and that THAT was not negotiable.
>
> I have always recognized that Lucy's pages were an anomaly, since any
> claim by .com to page ownership is irrelevant when the pageowner is also
> the system and domain owner; however, it was distinctly disconcerting to
> hear from you that you would defend her right to link to .com as the
> USGW link to the point of not even being willing to talk to her about
> it.
>
> megan
>
> Elaine Johnson wrote:
> The
> > board demanded that all seven counties in western Idaho which are owned by Lucy Dill
> > <gasp> be removed immediately from IDGenWeb. (Seven out of forty-four is a big number.)
> > There was no room for discussion. The order wasn't that I should ask her to move her
> > pages, or have the domain name changed. It was, "Off with her head!" I responded that
> > every county site was within the guidelines posted on the USGenWeb national pages, that
> > Lucy was doing a good job maintaining those pages and responding to researchers, and
> > that as long as these things were true I would not remove those counties from the
> > IDGenWeb Project. That ended the matter as far as I know.
>
> --
> Megan Zurawicz, National Coordinator USGenWeb
> pigolit(a)ix.netcom.com * cochonnet(a)aol.com
>
Elaine Johnson
Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
Happy 4th everyone!
Now business. I need to know as soon as possible if any of you did not recieve ballots.
You should have gotten at least two. One for the national coordinator and the bylaws and
one for the regional county coordinator representative. I got two copies of that one
myself and two of the state coordinator ballot.
Several people in many states did not recieve ballots. I forget whether it was N.
Carolina or S. Carolina. In one of them nobody got a ballot.
Confidence inspiring isn't it?
Anyway, they are making lists of addresses to feed to the stupid machine so I need to
know if you need a ballot. I know at least one of you is on vacation, another is still?
moving. Everyone is busy for the holliday. But please, as soon as possible. Thanks.
Elaine Johnson
Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
George Waller wrote:
> Elaine,
> I think your post is symptomatic of the attacks on Linda.
This sentence bothers me. Its like that question, "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
Either way you answer, you're guilty. I will assume it was just poorly phrased. My
purpose was not to attack Linda. My purpose was to prevent future attacks from Linda.
My post was an attempt to shine a light on the situation so that any future problems
would be visible and out in the open. The reason I did not list specific problems is
because I did not want to start yet another of those mud slinging threads that plague
USGW-ALL. I have posted messages about the problems in the past, one even this week to
the SC list. You know, the one where I said, "LISTEN!!!" but no one did. In one I even
referred to the fact that Idaho's representative on the board had not been any help at
all. Guess he still doesn't care because he is still silently watching.
> You are obviously very angry at her and refer to problems,
> but you do not make it clear exactly what she has done
> to deserve your wrath. It may be obvious to you, however
> the rest of us might benefit from the specifics.
I will try. You aren't the only one to ask. I am not one of those people who saves every
email message they send or recieve. That has always struck me as paranoid but now it
leaves me relying on my memory.
A little background for those who don't know. Jerry Dill is from Idaho. Jerry was our
archives file manager for well over a year. When the Board and Jerry had their messy and
unneccessarily public battle, [posting our dirty laundry to Roots-L? SHAME.] it dragged
IDGenWeb into the spotlight. Most people didn't even realize Jerry was our file manager.
They heard Linda say "an Idaho corporation" about one hundred times and began to
associate the two. People started coming to the IDGenWeb site out of curiousity. One,
only one, person asked me what was going on. At the time I had no idea. That curiousity
soon turned to visitors whose only purpose was to find fault and point fingers. Did you
know Lucy Dill is the CC for seven Idaho counties? <gasp> Some even had the gall
chastize me for it.
The *Advisory* Board announced that the national USGenWeb page was no longer located at
.com and everyone should change their links to either .net or .org. (my favorite even
before "the Dill situation.") I thought that was a reasonable request, at least until the
problem could be solved. I didn't know at the time that they weren't going to engage in a
reasoned and civilized discussion that would have ended the controversy months ago.
One of our fault finding visitors, who I won't name even though I remember who he was,
noticed that not only was Lucy Dill an Idaho CC <gasp> but that her county pages were
located at usgenweb.com.
Suddenly the Board was saying ALL sites and pages and ALL links to ANY sites or pages
ANYWHERE on usgenweb.com were illegal and grounds for removal from the Project. The
board demanded that all seven counties in western Idaho which are owned by Lucy Dill
<gasp> be removed immediately from IDGenWeb. (Seven out of forty-four is a big number.)
There was no room for discussion. The order wasn't that I should ask her to move her
pages, or have the domain name changed. It was, "Off with her head!" I responded that
every county site was within the guidelines posted on the USGenWeb national pages, that
Lucy was doing a good job maintaining those pages and responding to researchers, and
that as long as these things were true I would not remove those counties from the
IDGenWeb Project. That ended the matter as far as I know.
Still background, but I'm almost there. The week before the above happened, Jerry
contacted me with the question, would I mind if the Idaho Genealogical Society mirrored
the files from our archives at their web site. I told him I had no objection, but that he
would of course need the permission of all the contributors who owned the copyrights. He
then contacted each of these persons. A few said it was OK with them, but many objected.
They were already uneasy with the safety of their files where they were and weren't
comfortable putting them at a site that MIGHT, sometime in the future, decide to sell the
files for profit. Also, we had been buffeted by the storm surge for the past few months.
We had been told over and over that Jerry and Lucy were evil and out to get us. We knew
then, and we know now, that they are not evil. This made us wary of the national archive
coordinator.
Someone, I don't know who, sent Jerry several posts that had appeared on the ALL list
about Palladium(sp?) being the new corporate sponser of Rootsweb and the resulting fear
that Rootsweb, already a for-profit corporation, was using USGenWeb and would allow the
USGenWeb archives to be sold for profit. Lucy had been removed(yes removed) from the
ALL-L list months earlier so they had no way of knowing that was only one side of
the story. Reacting to the worries of the file owners from the week before, and believing
that those files were in immediate danger, Jerry removed all the files from the Idaho
archives site located at Rootsweb. End background.
1-Linda did not ask, tell, insist, or even order Jerry to replace the files. She just
fired him and changed the password. No discussion, no recourse, no respect. She didn't
remind him of the Archives *guidline* that a table of contents had to remain at Rootsweb.
(Where she has control over, and access to every archive account.)
2-Linda did not inform the volunteers at IDGenWeb that we were suddenly without a file
manager.
3-Linda did not ask any of the volunteers in the IDGenWeb Project if any of us were
interested in being the archive file manager.
4-Linda did not contact me asking for suggestions for a new file manager. I found out the
post was vacant by accident. I had recently joined the ALL-L list to try and figure out
what was going on.
5-Before I even had a chance to say anything, Linda had filled the vacancy with
someone who had no real interest in the state. (No animosity against that person. She was
caught in the middle.)
6-Linda did not inform me or anyone else at IDGenWeb that the postion had been filled or
by whom. I found out the name on the state coordinator's mailing list. Not even cc'd to
me.
I sent a message to our required state mailing list and cc'd the one person who had
archive files who was not a county coordinator, and Linda Lewis. I explained that the
files had been removed and why. I suggested a calm, reasoned discussion take place. We
would talk about where we wanted our files to be housed. I asked Linda if there was any
archive rule that said all the files MUST be housed at Rootsweb.
7-Linda ignored my explanation of why and said, no, there was no such rule.
8-Linda had joined the Idaho research list a day or so earlier. (This is a different
list than the private CC list, though many CC are on it.) She did not see her message on
that list so she posted a copy there saying that someone had told her it didn't appear.
Over the next two weeks that list lost 1/3 of its subscribers.
I sent another message to the same three addresses (list, Linda, Ray) and said that the
files from the Idaho archives were owned by the submitters and those submitters and
the other County Coordinators who had a direct interest would be the ones to decide what
happened to those files. It wasn't up to me, or Linda, or Jerry. It was up to the file's
owners.
9-Linda responded that it wasn't up to us what happened to our files and we had no say in
the matter at all. We weren't even allowed a discussion on the matter. Its two days later
and now she says there IS an archive rule that the files must be located at Rootsweb.
Meanwhile a new table of contents page appeared at the Rootsweb site with a typo in the
link back to IDGenWeb and no files. But it had a BIG, nice Rootsweb logo so people could
give money to the commercial site hosting the page. (Nothing against Rootsweb, its the
irony that struck me.)
10-Linda responded to a private post from me. I don't have any idea what I said, but it
set Linda off. She sent back a long diatribe (nasty gram) saying the same anti-Dill stuff
she has said one hundred times before. Insert a copy of one of those here. < > Repeat:
Jerry is not evil.
I waited and thought for a few days. Jerry was out of town on business anyway. I had an
idea. I sent Linda a placating, subservient messsage about how we really needed an
archive manager who we were comfortable with and already trusted and as a compromise
could I suggest the name of such a person. Linda said "Yes!" (I can put quotes on that
because I remember that's exactly what she said.
Meanwhile, I had expressed concern to Jerry that researchers and CC wouldn't be able to
access the files. He uploaded them to Rootsquest and informed the IDGenWeb CC, and maybe
the research list I don't remember, where they could find them. Jerry was in the middle
of a huge project for our archives. When Linda fired him he continued to work on it and
completed it before going out of town. For the first time every single county had at
least one file available.
Since that time Dovovan has been, with Jerry's support, reloading all the files
to the Rootsweb site, including the files that Jerry finished AFTER Linda fired him. He
has Jerry's permission to use the county table of contents from Jerry's site and paste
them onto the Rootsweb site so he won't have to start from scratch. Jerry's site at
ROOTSQUEST has been acting as a much needed mirror for OUR files while Donovan rebuilds.
A nosy busybody told everyone that Idaho's archives were at the USIGS domain and Jerry
stole them. (It isn't the same domain as rootsquest but they have the same dns? number so
visitors sometimes end up at the wrong one. Why, it costs more money to register
seperate numbers. None of this has anything to do with USIGS except that Linda hates
both.)
11-Linda contacted USIGS and told them that they were not allowed to have a link to
those files at their site and they said, huh?
12-Linda threatened them with civil suit if they did not remove the files. Not her
files, OUR files. To protect USIGS from a nuisance suit Jerry was forced to remove the
files and table of contents from the rootsquest site.
Idaho's archives have been crippled twice now by Linda's vendetta. Researchers can't find
the files. CCs can't find the files. Notice please I said IDAHO'S ARCHIVES. Linda didn't
submit those files, Linda didn't transcribe those files, Linda doesn't own the
copyright on those files, and Linda can't tell the LEGAL OWNERS of those files where
they may or may not choose to post those files. All of the copyright owners had the
ability to ask Jerry to remove them from his site. None did so.
Yes, I am angry. We've been pasted on the dart board for months now. We don't have any
backbiting or power plays or politics at IDGenWeb except those forced on us by outsiders.
We only want the right to continue to help our patrons and improve our web sites. We've
been doing it quietly for over two years now. As long as Linda isn't allowed to keep
attacking us we will continue help people and enjoy being part of The USGenWeb Project.
Elaine Johnson
Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
Elaine,
I think your post is symptomatic of the attacks on Linda.
You are obviously very angry at her and refer to problems,
but you do not make it clear exactly what she has done
to deserve your wrath. It may be obvious to you, however
the rest of us might benefit from the specifics.
I admit to being somewhat discouraged at this point. Each
time I ask for specifics from those who seem to be the most
upset, all I get in reply (if at all) is a restatement of vague
accusations.
Could you please be specific about what Linda did to upset you so?
Respectfully, George
On 2 Jul 98 at 9:56, Elaine Johnson wrote:
> [Second try, since I think my computer ate the first. If it went out,
> sorry.]
>
> Linda,
>
> Well, you've won another round and Idaho has another scar.
> Researchers will have an even harder time accessing the world war one
> draft cards, the cemetery lists, and the 1880 census extracts.
>
> Which of these files offends you so much? Which are inappropriate?
> Never mind, I don't care what you think.
>
> [Other state watch your backs. I don't know if its just Idaho she has
> a vendetta against, or if she will now attack any state with files
> listed on servers outside her control.]
>
> Linda, you are not welcome at IDGenWeb. Even if you are elected NC,
> you will not be allowed to interfere in Idaho again. You are not
> allowed to post any message to the Idaho mailing lists. Just stay
> away from us.
>
> I will delete all messages from you unread, now and in the future.
>
> Elaine Johnson
> Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
>
From: Elaine Johnson <elaine(a)ida.net>
Date: Wednesday, July 01, 1998 1:42 AM
>Donovan only agreed to be our file manager on a temporary basis. I have a
great >idea for
>someone to take over for him. (Unless one of you wants to do it?) The same
man >who
>supervised the every name index for the 1910 Idaho census. The same man who
>supervised
>the indexing of Idaho marriages which Family Tree Maker sells.
Yes, Elaine, I know who you are talking about. I purchased both of the CDs
you mentioned and they are invaluable in helping people find their way in
Idaho. Since I'm on the subject, I will be glad to do look-ups for anyone
on the two CDs.
Elaine, if you wish, you can put that offer on your state page, too.
Lucy
Sorry, a correction. Linda Lewis has forced Jerry's mirror site of our archives of the
net. We are now limited to the Rootsweb sites.
Elaine Johnson
Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
[Second try, since I think my computer ate the first. If it went out,
sorry.]
Linda,
Well, you've won another round and Idaho has another scar.
Researchers will have an even harder time accessing the world war one
draft cards, the cemetery lists, and the 1880 census extracts.
Which of these files offends you so much? Which are inappropriate?
Never mind, I don't care what you think.
[Other state watch your backs. I don't know if its just Idaho she has
a vendetta against, or if she will now attack any state with files
listed on servers outside her control.]
Linda, you are not welcome at IDGenWeb. Even if you are elected NC,
you will not be allowed to interfere in Idaho again. You are not
allowed to post any message to the Idaho mailing lists. Just stay
away from us.
I will delete all messages from you unread, now and in the future.
Elaine Johnson
Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: "Kay Mason" <kmfkm(a)ptw.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:25:38 -0700
Priority: normal
Subject: [STATE-COORD-L] State and County Coordinator Representative Ballots
To: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Reply-to: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Due to technical difficulties the Ballots for State Coordinator
Representative and County Coordinator Representative will be sent
out tomorrow morning.
We apologize for any inconvience this may cause you .
Thank you,
The USGenWeb Election Committee
_____________________
Elaine Johnson
mailto:elaine@usroots.com
Hi, just found this. Better late than never.
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: kmfkm(a)ptw.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:24:07 -0700
Priority: normal
Subject: [STATE-COORD-L] Election
To: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Reply-to: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
Please share this with your County Coordinators. Thank you.
The USGenWeb Project Election begins tomorrow, July 1, 1998,
and will end on July 31, 1998. We will be voting for a National
Coordinator, and members of the National Advisory Board. We will
also decide to whether to approve or disapprove the Proposed
Bylaws.
Every eligible voter will receive a ballot to vote on the National
Coordinator and the Proposed Bylaws.
The State Coordinators and Assistant State Coordinators of each
Region will receive a ballot to elect a State Coordinator
Representative.
The County Coordinators of each Region will receive a ballot on
which they will vote to elect two (2) County Coordinators for their
Region. If a County Coordinator is a County Coordinator in more
than one Region, they will vote in each Region in which they host a
county website.
We will be using voter software called UseVote. UseVote will send
an acknowledgement to the voter for each ballot received.
Votes must be cast from the email address that the ballot was
sent to.
The voter software will not accept "Write-in" votes.
You may vote YES, NO and ABSTAIN. Voting ABSTAIN will not
affect the outcome of the election.
The position of each candidate on the ballot was determined by
random drawing.
Thank you
USGenWeb Census Project
http://www.usgenweb.org/census/http://www.usgenweb.net/census/http://www.usgenweb.com/census/
Kansas Unknown Counties
http://skyways.lib.ks.us/kansas/genweb/unknown
USGenWeb Archives
Oklahoma File Manager
The Tombstone Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~cemetery/
Elaine Johnson
Idaho Coordinator, The USGenWeb Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/