Coflein (Royal commission on ancient monuments in Wales) has the details of
the chapel at
http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/12247/details/BETHLEHEM+WELSH+BAPTIST+C...
giving grid reference SO23121396 which is between the centre of the hamlet
of Clydach in the Clydach Gorge (A465 road between Brynmawr and Govilon and
Abergavenny) and the parish church at Llanelly, Breconshire. The chapel is
shown on my 1970s OS map.
You can see the chapel on
www.old-maps.co.uk if you input the grid reference
323100 214000 and enlarging a little. It is some distance from centres of
population.
Trying to unmangle the placenames, and bearing in mind previous information
about Thomas, he seems to have come from Llanbedr, a few miles north-east of
Crickhowell, details of which are at
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/LlanbedrYstradYw/index.html
In 1851 this seems to have been called Llanbedr parsel Bysich and Llanbedr
parsel Graigwen.
[Llanbedr = Church of St Peter = Lampeter] There was a place called Vro
in the Graigwen parsel of Llanbedr but in 1851 no GRIFFITHS there. It was a
farm of 130 acres with 4 labourers.
[parsel or parcel was a sub-division of a parish, usually called a hamlet in
England, but in this sparsely-populated mountain pasture area it was simply
a geographical sub-divsion.
As for Mary, the parish is clearly Llangenny east of Crickhowell, and about
2 miles downriver from Llanbedr, on the river Grwyney.
At last after struggling through images of most of the parish I have found
Mary JENKINS aged 21 a housemaid in the household of Henry GRIFFITHS and
his wife Ann, farmer of 120 acres employing two men, in the farm called as
far as I can make out Wernybutler wbich I assume is your 'Wambutten'. She
was shown as born in Breconshire, Llandefelly which is clearly Llandefalle.
This farm is shown on my 1970s OS map, so presumably on modern maps, as
Gwern-y-bwtler. About 500 metres as the crow flies to the north-north-east
of it, across a stream and parish boundary, is Fro (pronounced Vro) in
Llanbedr parish. Both are about a mile from the centre of Crickhowell.
On modern map from Ordnance Survey web site the reference for Gwern-y-bwtler
is SO 23001920 approximately so on old-maps.co.uk 323000 219200. If you put
in 323000 219300 you will see how close the two farms were. Gwern-y-butler
is the spelling Google maps will find, at post code NP8 1TD
The fact that the couple chose to marry in a welsh-speaking Baptist chapel
about five miles from where they both lived suggests that the religious
denomination and language was significant to them. If Mary was a Baptist
there might be records somewhere of her adult baptism, but not an infant
baptism record. Crickhowell and Llangenny, in the fertile Usk valley, were
anglicised areas with some big houses with a number of servants.
As early as 1852 there may not have been many Welsh-speaking nonconformist
chapels licensed for marriages, so they may not have had much choice.
Mary is in 1851 census HO 107/2490 folio 706 page 27 schedule 82
Bear in mind that employers might well not have known the exact age of their
employees, and unmarried ladies tended to be a bit coy about their ages.
In 1841 There was no GRIFFITHS at VRO, or indeed in Graigwen part of
Llanbedr
There was an older GRIFFITHS couple at Wern Butler in Llangenny parish.
In 1841 in 'North Llandefalley' there was a Thomas JENKINS, farmer, at
'Velinnowid' which I expect is Felin Newydd, but there was no Mary among the
children. And a second Thomas JENKINS, farm labourer, at Forrest, but again
no Mary among the children.
In 1841 in South Llandefalley there is actually a Thomas Griffiths age 15
male servant at a farm called Llan and a Mary JENKINS age 13 in the farm
next door, apparently called Carbetran, but head of household is Evan
JENKINS age 55 and then Elizabeth age 25, with Mary oldest child present.
May be total coincidence. Another Mary JENKINS 13 at a farm called Tredurn
where the farmer William JENKINS 60 and Elizabeth JENKINS 50. 1841 census
does not show relationships, and adult ages are rounded down to nearest 10
or 5.
I don't know Llandefalle but the area around Llangenny, Crickhowell and
Llanbedr is a very attractive one I first explored as a boy scout on a hike
competition in my early teens. 'Graigwen' means 'white rock' and is on
the
lower slopes of 'table mountain'(451 metres) , the location of CRUG HYWEL
CAMP ,an iron age hill-fort which is a spur on the side of a larger mountain
Pen Cerrig-Calch (701 metres), the Calch referring to the limestone geology
of the area.
http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/92128/details/CRUG+HYWEL+CAMP/ is about
the hill fort and
http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/92128/images/CRUG+HYWEL+CAMP/?&z=10 is a
view from above the hill fort down to the Vale of Usk, looking over the area
where the two farms were where Thomas and Mary lived in 1852
The GENUKI pages for Llanelly, Llangenny and Llandyfalle are worth looking
at.
John Ball has some photos of Llanelly Breconshire and Clydach gorge, I seem
to recall.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shanna Jones" <shannasjones(a)msn.com>
To: <glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [GLA] GLAMORGAN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 67
Thomas Griffiths, age 27, bachelor, laborer of The Vro Llamputer, son
of
Thomas Griffiths, husbandsman married 4 Dec 1852 at the Baptists'
Bethlehem
Chapel, Llanelly in the District of Crickhowell in the County of Brecon,
Mary Jenkins, age 25, spinster, of Wambutten Llangency, daughter of Thomas
Jenkins, a husbandsman.
Hi Shanna
You don't say where she got married. Could be a link there or, which is
what I've found useful is by using the marriage witnesses especially if
they
have odd names.
Happy hunting!
Jane
GFHS 4671
---- Shanna Jones <shannasjones(a)msn.com> wrote:
> Each day I have read and been thoroughly impressed with the resources
freely
> given on John Jones JENKINS. I have to admit, it made me kind of jealous
> because I too have a JENKINS dead end line. Mary JENKINS is the last
direct
> line ancestor that I found to complete my eight generation pedigree
> chart.
> She is my 3rd great grandmother. I have found her in a few places such
as:
>
> Mary Jenkins is age 25 on marriage certificate 4 Dec 1852 = 1827. She
> married Thomas Griffiths and it says her father is Thomas too.
>
> Mary Griffiths is 30, born Llanelly, on the 1861 British Census at
> Llangattock = 1831.
>
> Mary Griffiths is 37, born Llanfalle, on the 1871 British Census at
> Llansamlet= 1834.
>
> Mary Griffiths is widowed, age 48, Llanfalla, on the 1881 British Census
at
> Llansamlet, Glamorgan = 1833. I don't know what happed to Thomas.
>
> RESEARCH: No entry was found for the baptism of Mary Jenkins at
Llandyfalle
> parish register between 1820 and 1840.
>