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There is an auction sale at St david's Church hall, Ystalyfera on Friday, and amongst the items is a family bible from the Griffiths family of Craig Y Merched and Gough Road, Ystalyfera.
Ian G.
I hope it's OK to post this. I have a Welsh bible belonging to the Gould family of Tonypandy. It's original owner was William Lewis Gould of Pentyrch, born 1869. He married Lizzie Hannah, born in Merthyr in 1872. I have a feeling the family has died out, but I know they lived in Tonypandy in Glen View Street, where my great aunt's husband (their son) was born in 1906. Other children were William George, Lizzie Mary, Blodwen, Margaret Louisa. I have advertised in various places before but never been able to find a family member. I am shortly to move house and will have less space, so things have to go. Does anyone have any knowledge of this family, please, or any suggestions as to an organisation that would like the bible? It is not in good condition and has not monetary value, I'm sure. Any info very gratefully received. Many thanks.
Dianne
I have found the original piece:-
-(}-- PONTARDAWE. Priodas.-Medi yr 28ain, yn eglwys Sant Pedr, priodwyd y llenor a'r cerddor medrius Mr George James, G.T.S.C.Ynysmeudwy; a Miss Mary H. Brazell, Ystalyfera. Dy- munaf eu llongyfarch yn y modd: mwyaf cyn- hes. Sut cafoddy brawd ;?rnser i garu, wys, gan brysurdeb ei waith yn dysgu y fath nifer luosog mewn cerddoriaeth? Gan nad pa mor fedrus yw efe ar danau yr offerytn cerdd, y mae ei "Fair" anwyl yn medru chwareu a,r iinynau tyneraf ei galonl ef yn amgenach na neb, a mawr dda, i'w chalon. Hir oes, iechyd, a llwyddiant fo i'r par anwyl. lOAN.
×
Pontardawe Wedding - September 28th, in St Peter's church, the marriage (took place) of the accomplished author and musician Mr George James, G.T.S.C. of Ynysmeudwy and Miss Mary H. Brazell of Ystalyfera. I wish to congratulate them in the warmest way. How did the man have time to go courting with such a busy workload teaching music to such vast numbers. Although he is very talented with the strings of musical instruments, his dear 'Mary' is able to play on the tenderest strings of his heart without equal, with great benefit to her heart. May the the dear couple experience long life, good health and every success. Ioan.
Hwyl,
Deric.
websites :
South Wales place-names - http://someplacenamesinsouthwales.4t.com
Enwau lleoedd - https://sites.google.com/site/enwaulleoedddecymru/
Pontardulais Place-names - https://sites.google.com/site/pontardulaisplacenames/
Pontardulais Public Houses - https://sites.google.com/site/pontardulaispublichouses/
Pontardulais Farms - https://sites.google.com/site/pontardulaisfarms/
Pontardulais Churches and Chapels - https://sites.google.com/site/pontardardulaischurcheschapels/
Dylan and the Bont - https://sites.google.com/site/dylanthomaspontardulais/home/dylan-and-the-...
New York White Horse - https://sites.google.com/site/whitehorsetavernnewyorkvisit/
Hi Jill
Thanks for your time and effort. I haven't had chance to do much with
the links as yet (pressure of being retired) but certainly I'll have a
look at the Rhondda Cynon Taff heritage trail although I know a fair
amount about the place from my childhood. When we last visited in 2005
there wasn't one working colliery in the whole of the Rhondda (Fach and
Fawr). My cousin told me that many people now worked out of the valley,
commuting as far as Bristol each day.
I will also check the list archives. I have found the Anglesey list of
mines and the R C T collection of photographs too before but I am glad
that you jogged my memory. As for census data, I know where they all
lived and the names of most if not quite all of their neighbours. And
I've either been in their homes at some time or another or in the
streets where they lived.
I have been able to find my Monmouthshire great grandfather's jobs from
when he worked on the railways in the 19th C from an index that has been
painstakingly compiled from railway employees records and from census
data but have had no luck in finding anything about mineworkers'
records. The censuses seem to say 'coal hewer' "underground worker' or
some such. Not to worry somewhere out there in ether space there may be
something. I'll just have to keep on digging.
Regards
Ray from a wet and blustery Hazelmere.
On 22/09/2013 1:05 AM, Jill Muir wrote:
> Dear Mary and Ray,
> Good to see you on the list again Ray;-)
<snipped>
A newspaper article has a reference to the 'Tonic Sol-fa Movement" and
"Sol-faists".
Aberdeen Journal - Monday 20 March 1916
Exam results
School teachers cert. LTMC
Matriculation theory for ATSC
A teacher for their exams is described as G.T.S.C., Licentiate of the Tonic
Sol-fa College but I think that might be the next step up for him.
There is also a FTSC, presumably Fellow of ..
Martin Briscoe
Fort William
martin(a)mbriscoe.me.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: glamorgan-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:glamorgan-bounces@rootsweb.com]
On Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: 24 September 2013 14:48
To: GLAMORGAN(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [GLA] Fw: Welsh Translation please?
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike smith" <mike.smith123(a)talktalk.net>
To: "Jill Muir" <jill(a)shottle.plus.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [GLA] Welsh Translation please?
> Hello Jill,
> Google has come up with the following T S C Tonic Sol-Fa College and I can
> only assume that the G is for Graduate.
> regards Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike smith" <mike.smith123(a)talktalk.net>
To: "Jill Muir" <jill(a)shottle.plus.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [GLA] Welsh Translation please?
> Hello Jill,
> Google has come up with the following T S C Tonic Sol-Fa College and I can
> only assume that the G is for Graduate.
> regards Mike
I had a look on the British Newspaper Archie, lots of people with the
letters after the name (some with Honours) and all music teachers but can't
the full version of the abbreviation anywhere.
Most of them also seem to be in Scotland.
Martin Briscoe
Fort William
martin(a)mbriscoe.me.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: glamorgan-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:glamorgan-bounces@rootsweb.com]
On Behalf Of Pamela Marsden
Sent: 24 September 2013 12:47
To: Jill Muir; glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [GLA] Welsh Translation please?
I think GTSC is some kind of educational qualification, particularly to do
with music. I have come across it several times after names while browsing
through Welsh newspapers online. C could be certificate.
Hi JoLynn
Patronymics disappeared over a fairly long period, with the gentry
tending to adopt surnames first, and tenant farmers among thse who
hung on to their patronymics longest. One way to get an idea of
whether patronymics were still in use is to look through the baptism
register for fathers who appear to have a middle name. These were
uncommon among ordinary folk before the mid-nineteenth century. So
Morgan James William, whose child was born in 1797, was almost
certainly using a patronymic.
I have had a quick look through Llangyfelach baptisms from the
booklet produced by Glamorgan FHS. Part 3, which arranges the
information by father's first name (up to 1812) is the most useful
part. I found plentiful examples in the 1750s and 60s, but only a
handful by the 1790s, and none after 1800.
Hope this helps
Anna
At 17:04 23/09/2013, Jeff & Jolynn Barneck wrote:
>I'm wondering if there is any timeline for when the use of
>patronymics came to an end in and around Llangyfelach. We are
>looking at records in the 1700's and even into the early 1800's.
>
>Also I wrote an early email asking if there was any way to track the
>movement of teachers in the late 1800's and early 1900's,
>specifically in the counties of Glamorgan, Pembroke, and
>Carmarthen. I haven't had any reply so I'm asking again.
>
>Thanks for any help about these two things you can give me.
>
>JoLynn Barneck
>--
>
>To send to the list send to glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com
>GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at
>http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html
>-
>This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List
>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/
>-
>A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links,
>may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/
>
>-
>The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages
>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and
>http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html
>
>
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>GLAMORGAN-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
It looks as if you have two problems - optical character recognition of old
newspaper text that is faulty, and Google translation.
Medi is September I wonder if 2Sain is 'ugain' or 20. Sant Pedr or St
Peter's is the 19th century church with the big spire in the middle of
Pontardawe. Medrus is clever or skilful. G.T.S.C may be a Welsh translation
of some recognised musical qualification.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jill Muir" <jill(a)shottle.plus.com>
To: <glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:24 AM
Subject: [GLA] Welsh Translation please?
> Dear Listers,
>
> Could a Welsh speaker please help? Google has translated this as:
>
> PONTARDAWE. Priodas.?Medi yr 2Sain, yn eglwys Sant Peilr, priodwyd y
> lienor
> a'r cerddor medrius Mr George James, G.T.S.C.Ynysmeudwy; a Miss Mary H.
> Brazell, Ystalyfera.
>
> PONTARDAWE. Marriage.? Sept. of the at St Peilr, married the tenor and
> musician medrius Mr. George James, GTSC Ynysmeudwy, and Miss Mary H.
> Brazell, Ystalyfera.
>
> Happy enough with the above, but this beats me.
>
> Dy- munaf eu llongyfarch yn y modd: mwyaf cyn- hes. Sut cafoddy brawd
> ;?rnser i garu, wys, gan brysurdeb ei waith yn dysgu y fath nifer luosog.
>
> Translated as:
> Dy-munaf congratulate them in the way: most pre-hes. How cafoddy brother;?
> Rnser to love, summons, by learning the vitality of his work in such a
> large
> number ...
>
> My best wishes,
> Jill
>
>
> --
>
> To send to the list send to glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com
> GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at
> http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html
> -
> This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/
> -
> A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be
> found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/
>
> -
> The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and
> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> GLAMORGAN-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Ah, thanks for that Anna. Wish I had kept up my Welsh language at school.
My best wishes, Jill
-----Original Message-----
From: Anna Brueton [mailto:bruetons@anoeth.demon.co.uk]
Sent: 24 September 2013 11:33
To: Jill Muir; glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [GLA] Welsh Translation please?
Hi Jill
I can't help with the Welsh, but the church should be Sant Pedr
Best wishes
Anna
At 11:24 24/09/2013, you wrote:
>Dear Listers,
>
>Could a Welsh speaker please help? Google has translated this as:
>
>PONTARDAWE. Priodas.?Medi yr 2Sain, yn eglwys Sant Peilr, priodwyd y
>lienor a'r cerddor medrius Mr George James, G.T.S.C.Ynysmeudwy; a Miss Mary
H.
>Brazell, Ystalyfera.
>
>PONTARDAWE. Marriage.? Sept. of the at St Peilr, married the tenor and
>musician medrius Mr. George James, GTSC Ynysmeudwy, and Miss Mary H.
>Brazell, Ystalyfera.
>
>Happy enough with the above, but this beats me.
>
>Dy- munaf eu llongyfarch yn y modd: mwyaf cyn- hes. Sut cafoddy brawd
>;?rnser i garu, wys, gan brysurdeb ei waith yn dysgu y fath nifer luosog.
>
>Translated as:
>Dy-munaf congratulate them in the way: most pre-hes. How cafoddy brother;?
>Rnser to love, summons, by learning the vitality of his work in such a
>large number ...
>
>My best wishes,
>Jill
>
>
>--
>
>To send to the list send to glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com GLAMORGAN Family
>History Mailing List archives etc. are at
>http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html
>-
>This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List
>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/
>-
>A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may
>be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/
>
>-
>The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages
>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and
>http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html
>
>
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>GLAMORGAN-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Dear Listers,
Could a Welsh speaker please help? Google has translated this as:
PONTARDAWE. Priodas.?Medi yr 2Sain, yn eglwys Sant Peilr, priodwyd y lienor
a'r cerddor medrius Mr George James, G.T.S.C.Ynysmeudwy; a Miss Mary H.
Brazell, Ystalyfera.
PONTARDAWE. Marriage.? Sept. of the at St Peilr, married the tenor and
musician medrius Mr. George James, GTSC Ynysmeudwy, and Miss Mary H.
Brazell, Ystalyfera.
Happy enough with the above, but this beats me.
Dy- munaf eu llongyfarch yn y modd: mwyaf cyn- hes. Sut cafoddy brawd
;?rnser i garu, wys, gan brysurdeb ei waith yn dysgu y fath nifer luosog.
Translated as:
Dy-munaf congratulate them in the way: most pre-hes. How cafoddy brother;?
Rnser to love, summons, by learning the vitality of his work in such a large
number ...
My best wishes,
Jill
If you are very fortunate you may turn up meetings of local school boards
reported in local newspapers showing who was appointed to posts, who
resigned etc.
These appear in the 'Cambrian' for example.
04 April 1879 SWANSEA SCHOOL BOARD: MORGAN JONES APPOINTED MASTER, MISS
RACHEL EVANS, MISTRESS, BOTH OF CWMBWRLA BOARD SCHOOL. P7
and
04 April 1879 SWANSEA SCHOOL BOARD: ASSISTANT MASTER AT TRINITY SCHOOL TO BE
REPLACED BY CHEAPER PUPIL TEACHER. P8
06 June 1879 SWANSEA SCHOOL BOARD: MISS SMITH APPOINTED SCHOOL MISTRESS TO
ST. HELEN'S SCHOOL IN PLACE OF MISS C.A. WALFORD. P5
06 June 1879 SWANSEA SCHOOL BOARD: MR SAMUEL OF HAFOD SCHOOL APPOINTED
MASTER OF CADLE SCHOOL IN PLACE OF MR THOMAS MORGAN. P5
and
04 July 1879 SWANSEA SCHOOL BOARD: REV. B. WILLIAMS ASKS WHY BOARD SHOULD
PUT UP WITH STUPID YOUNG PEOPLE AS PUPIL TEACHERS. P5
05 September 1879 SWANSEA HIGHER & LOWER SCHOOL BOARD: WAUNARLWYDD &
CWMBWRLA SCHOOLS HAD SENT HOME CHILDREN WITHOUT SHOES. P5
07 November 1879 SWANSEA SCHOOL BOARD: NEW PUPIL TEACHERS, JOHN R. DAVIES;
DAVID DAVIES; DAVID E. WILLIAMS, BRYNHYFRYD BOARD SCHOOL. P8
You may also turn up records of where the teacher was trained. Most Welsh
men were trained in 1880s at Bangor Normal College and most women at Swansea
teacher's training college, I think.
Adverts for private schools often listed the staff.
I have not tried looking for similar items in the various local papers
available online from the National Library of Wales site.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff & Jolynn Barneck" <jeff(a)barneck.com>
To: <glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 1:59 PM
Subject: [GLA] Records of teachers in counties
> Dear List,
>
> Is there any way to track the movements of a teacher in the late 1800's
> and very early 1900's? The one I am looking for was in Pembroke,
> Carmenthen, and Pembroke (those for certain). But I'm wondering if he can
> be tracked to particular locations in each of those counties. I know of
> about three or four places. I'm trying to find more children because they
> mention on the 1911 census they've had 10, and four have died.
>
> JoLynn Barneck
> --
>
> To send to the list send to glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com
> GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at
> http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html
> -
> This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/
> -
> A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be
> found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/
>
> -
> The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and
> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> GLAMORGAN-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I'm wondering if there is any timeline for when the use of patronymics came to an end in and around Llangyfelach. We are looking at records in the 1700's and even into the early 1800's.
Also I wrote an early email asking if there was any way to track the movement of teachers in the late 1800's and early 1900's, specifically in the counties of Glamorgan, Pembroke, and Carmarthen. I haven't had any reply so I'm asking again.
Thanks for any help about these two things you can give me.
JoLynn Barneck
Hello Karen
Oh dear, I see your problem. Jones again! I have tons of them and
they don't ever make it easy. I think the greatest challenge in life
is to have relatives or antecedants surnamed Jones. That can keep you
going for donkeys years.... decades.... decades....
Death certificates are only as good as the person handing over the
information to the, most likely, funeral director. It could be
correct, but in many cases during my research, there are mistakes
galore. It would depend upon the informant being very close to the
family, especially within the inner family circle for reasonable
accuracy, but then daughters and sons don't always get it right,
either. Friends or cousins might also tend to get it very wrong.
Of course, there could be the possibility that John Jones married
twice, both times to a Sarah. I've had that happen a few times. The
considerable amount of mothers dying in or after childbirth and then
the father looking around for another wife to take care of his
children, was part and parcel of those times.
A suggestion is to have other researchers take a look at those
certificates to see if everyone can agree what the writing of the
surnames really is.
Apart from bad writing, other factors are in the hearing of the
surname being given by the informant to the funeral people, or indeed
in the case of the marriage to the celebrant - particularly where
accents are concerned. So, they write it down on paper, then later
transcribe it to the proper form - ah, can one read one's own writing
of the day before? Mills and Halls could easily be misinterpreted
re. sound and accent, but Rees or Rhys, surely not.
I recall many decades ago when I had to give my surname to officials
for some or other reason, and I thought I pronounced it as Price, but
several times believe it or not, it came across as Morris! Must have
been my grandparents Welsh accent coming through after two
generations in Australia. No doubt, it still lingers, hidden to all
but the very observant. A radiologist, the other week, said me that I
couldn't be Australian born. Got that wrong!
This could become quite expensive, but once having exhausted all of
means, perhaps a marriage certificate or a death certificate of one
of David's brothers or sisters (if he had any known to you) might be
the way to solve this problem.
Best wishes
Graham
Melbourne
Oz
Sent on, via Karen Nabey
Hi Graham
Thanks for the imput here. I have a problem with my JONES family as the
marriage certificate for David JONES 1895 in Victoria states his
Mother as Sarah Mills or could be Halls but on his death certificate in New
Zealand it states his mother as Sarah REES and father John JONES
From Swansea Glamorganshire.
I have a birth certificate for David JONES from Swansea in Wales as mother
being Sarah REES and father John JONES, how do I know which is
Correct? Very confused.
Then I have the marriage certificate from a family member (or is she) saying
John JONES married Sarah HALL. How do I know her's is correct.
Could this marriage cert be hand written wrong?
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Karen.
Dear listers
Does anyone have any information on the popularity of biddings in
Glamorgan in the nineteenth century? (Biddings were events around the
time of a wedding to which guests brought presents or money. These
gifts were recorded, and it was understood that the couple would
return the favour to the donor or one of his/her family when the
occasion arose). They were very common in West Wales, particularly
Carmarthenshire, up to the end of the nineteenth century, but there
appears to be little information on Glamorgan.
Ivor Griffith saysthat the last known bidding in Pontardulas took
place in 1829. The diary of David Davies of Tre-boeth notes the
bidding held on the occasion of his own marriage at Llangyfelach in
1823. There is also a suggestion that they were popular in Mumbles
and Gower, but I have not found anything further east in Glamorgan
apart from a couple of references in the diary of William Thomas
(1762-1795) to what he calls 'inviting weddings'.
I woud be very grateful if listers could share with me any
information they have on biddings taking place elsewhere in Glamorgan.
Best wishes
Anna
To all listers within reach of London
The next meeting of the Branch will be on 28th September 2013 at 2pm,
at Borough Welsh Congregational Chapel when Conway Davies, lecturer
at Trinity St David, will be speaking on the topic of "The Old Poor
Law in Wales".
The meetings are open to anyone with an interest in Welsh history or
family history.
.Venue & Transport details
For details and a map please see:
<http://welshchapel.com/#/find-us/4533250281>http://welshchapel.com/#/find-us/4533250281
To check whether Transport for London (tfl) has planned works on the
28 September - see
<http://www.tfl.gov.uk/livetravelnews/planned-works/calendar/default.aspx>http://www.tfl.gov.uk/livetravelnews/planned-works/calendar/default.aspx
for more details.
Our final meeting of 2013 will take place on 9th November 2013 in the
schoolroom at Borough Welsh Congregational Chapel at 2pm when branch
member Pam Buttrey will speak in the topic of "Booze, Bankruptcy,
Bastards and a Baker - researching an 18th century gentry family in
North Wales".
We hope to see some of you at our meetings
Anna
Hi
Just wanting to know if the surname 'HALL' is a Welsh name and is that a
family which would of been living in the Cilfrew - Cadoxton Juxta Neath area
please? I am having some problems
Bringing this HALL name into my family of JONES.
What are the chances that the hand written certificate could of been written
wrong? Not sure of any other explanation.
Many thanks
Karen
At a guess, "civil status" probably refers to whether the person is single, married, widowed, divorced or, in some cases, deceased.
Employment records: in searching/reading 19th century Welsh newspapers on-line, I've found some wonderful and interesting information on several coal-miner families in South Wales, including a detailed account of the inquest on a large-scale loss of life in a mine explosion, in which three youngsters in one family, 11, 13 and 15, died.
Also, apparently, at least some coal miners/colliers/etc. worked on contract to the company. The latter came out in reports on a civil court case which saw a family member fined because he went home without putting in his full day at the mine because there was no work to do -- he was on contract to be there, work or no, and thus was fined by the court. That "contract" bit may go toward explaining why coal miners moved frequently around South Wales and adjacent mining areas across the Severn, as well as hopes for betterment or avoidance of a "black list," making it interesting chasing them today. Good hunting!
Sally