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For someone who did genealogy before the advent of Ancestry.com, there
should be an old saying: "by all means, use Ancestry, but then, you must always
prove it."
Annie
Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:40:00 -0000
From: "Sue Welham" _sue.cartref(a)virgin.net_ (mailto:sue.cartref@virgin.net)
Hi,
Just an observation that I have come across through a Christmas present from
last year. My son bought me the Family Tree Maker. I already had a
Generations version but this was more up to date and I had a 30 day free trial
with Ancestry. I did not use this free trial at the time but when Ancestry
had an offer of using it for 3 days without having to give one's credit card
details I did use it.
I have traced my family lines through the Glamorgan lists, the Dyfed lists
and the Powys lists for the last 7 years and the people who have answered my
queries and questions have been marvellous and I have found so much which I
have checked with Powys Archives at Llandrindod Wells and the National Library
of Wales at Aberystwyth. Having seen the Parish Records for myself I have
taken the dates of marriages, deaths and births from them but when I used the
Ancestry site the information given in relation to information I already had
was often several years astray. My point is that I feel quite sorry for
those people (especially those abroad) who rely on Ancestry to give them the
correct information and cannot check it with the Parish Records or official
censuses. I realise that the censuses often give incorrect place names
(especially in Wales) and ages can be slightly adrift but I have a marriage entry for
one of my ancestors for 1816 which I have checked with National Li!
brary of Wales and Powys (personally seeing the registers for that Parish)
and also have a copy of the Parish Register Entry but Ancestry give the date
as 1823 which is a seven year difference. If I had not checked these myself
I would have discounted this person as my ancestor because of the timeline.
I was disappointed because now that Ancestry seem to be taking over all the
sites I would have thought they would be accurate. It proves there is no
substitute for the many Listers who give of their time and energy to help others
throughout the years.
With best wishes to all on the Lists for the New Year
Sue in Suffolk
------------------------------
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(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
hi everyone
a big thank you to all the kind people who responded to esther's story
in my notes written in 1972 at the national library of wales i had jotted down harman entries for st fagins and of the 6 i copied was
THOMAS HARMAN buried 31/8/1836 aged 22
he had married CECIL DAVIES three months earlier on 15/5/1836 [ from your help]
i wonder what happened to him
ESTHER was born 1837. This now gives me parents to my great great grandmother MARY HARMAN born 1811
namely
EDMUND HARMAN and ANN DAVID [from your help]
their children were
EDMOND b1802
DAVID c13/9/1808 BURIED 11/6/1836 [from my 1972 notes ] so they lost 2 sons 2 months apart.
MARY born 1811 [ no christening record ]
THOMAS b 1814-1836 esthers father.
there were proberly more.
once again thank you all so much this has been a mistry for me for all these years.
denis edwards
ps never throw out old notes how ever meaningless at the time.
I thought the following might amuse you - or otherwise
Diana
___________________
From Appendix (H) of the First Annual Report of the Registrar-
General dated 25 July 1837.
These were instructions from the Registrar-general to the officiating
ministers of churches or chapels of the Church of England, in which
marriages may lawfully be solemnized, on how to fill in and return
the quarterly returns of Certified Copies containing details of all
marriages and burials performed in their church during the preceding
three months. He then emphasised that the preservation of these
certified Copies in the General Register-Office in London will be
proof of the marriage stating that:
Quote
"Thus the proof of Marriage, which hitherto has been frequently
attended with much delay, difficulty, and expense, may, from this
time forward, be obtained promptly, easily, and at a very trifling
cost. But such benefits cannot be secured to the community without
the due and regular transmission of certified Copies. I cannot doubt
that this consideration will, to a Minister of Religion, be a
sufficient inducement for the exact fulfilment of the civil duties
thus assigned to him by law, especially when he feels that by
neglecting to perform them he may inflict an injury, he knows not how
serious, on the descendants of those who have received at his hands
the holy ordinance of Marriage."
End quote
'Obtained promptly', 'trifling cost', 'inflicting serious injury on
descendants' !!!!!
you wrote: I remember going up a long path to visit someone.
This must have been Gelli Farm, as the houses in Gelli are in terraces all very close together, the only long path I can think of is to Gelli farm.
The dates you give is before my time in Gelli but I will ask a few of my older neighbors.
Regards
David
www.daijones.com
Swansea City Council cemetery Dept proved very helpful to me when looking for the grave and burial details of my St. Thomas relatives.
If you have dates of burial or death and names they should be able to help. You could try e-mailing in the first instance at :-
evh(a)swansea.gov.uk
Regards
Roger M Evans
Hi List
There has been a minor flurry of messages from listers using *their* wrong
address (not the one they used for subscribing with) and also unsubscribing
messages being sent to the address which is for list messages only i.e
Glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com
Can't do much about the first type of 'temporary aberration' but perhaps a
new year's resolution might include mugging up on list guidelines and
subscribing/unsubscribing methods :-)
And the best place for that is surely the List's very own site maintained by
Jill
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~glamorgan/index.htm
Happy New Year all
Gareth Hicks
Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/
Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html
Cwmgors/Waun http://www.tytwp.plus.com/Waun/Waun.html
Hi List.
I have been trying for months to try and get in contact with a list member
Anne Kaiser, She lives in Florida and has helped me in the past.
I have emailed and written to her with no reply, and I am getting quite
concerned.
She has not been too well the past year, and I know she has found relatives
in either Merthyr or Llantrisant.
If anyone knows how I can find out how Anne is, please help.
Thank You.
Julie
Hi,
Just an observation that I have come across through a Christmas present from last year. My son bought me the Family Tree Maker. I already had a Generations version but this was more up to date and I had a 30 day free trial with Ancestry. I did not use this free trial at the time but when Ancestry had an offer of using it for 3 days without having to give one's credit card details I did use it.
I have traced my family lines through the Glamorgan lists, the Dyfed lists and the Powys lists for the last 7 years and the people who have answered my queries and questions have been marvellous and I have found so much which I have checked with Powys Archives at Llandrindod Wells and the National Library of Wales at Aberystwyth. Having seen the Parish Records for myself I have taken the dates of marriages, deaths and births from them but when I used the Ancestry site the information given in relation to information I already had was often several years astray. My point is that I feel quite sorry for those people (especially those abroad) who rely on Ancestry to give them the correct information and cannot check it with the Parish Records or official censuses. I realise that the censuses often give incorrect place names (especially in Wales) and ages can be slightly adrift but I have a marriage entry for one of my ancestors for 1816 which I have checked with National Library of Wales and Powys (personally seeing the registers for that Parish) and also have a copy of the Parish Register Entry but Ancestry give the date as 1823 which is a seven year difference. If I had not checked these myself I would have discounted this person as my ancestor because of the timeline.
I was disappointed because now that Ancestry seem to be taking over all the sites I would have thought they would be accurate. It proves there is no substitute for the many Listers who give of their time and energy to help others throughout the years.
With best wishes to all on the Lists for the New Year
Sue in Suffolk
Thanks to all who have tried to help me with my Elias family in Llanishen. It looks as if the whole family had moved or died out by 1841 then.
Thanks again
Eleri
Fwded for Julie who is not currently subscribed at the sent from address.
Gareth Hicks
Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/
Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html
Cwmgors/Waun http://www.tytwp.plus.com/Waun/Waun.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Feathers" <julie.feathers(a)googlemail.com>
To: <glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:06 AM
Subject: Member Anne Kaiser from Florida
> Hi List.
>
> I have been trying for months to try and get in contact with a list member
> Anne Kaiser, She lives in Florida and has helped me in the past.
>
> I have emailed and written to her with no reply, and I am getting quite
> concerned.
>
>
>
> She has not been too well the past year, and I know she has found
> relatives
> in either Merthyr or Llantrisant.
>
> If anyone knows how I can find out how Anne is, please help.
>
>
>
> Thank You.
>
> Julie
>
>
Curious. How things do change.
donkelly
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diana Trenchard" <diana(a)trenchar.demon.co.uk>
To: <glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: [GLA] Marriage Certificates
>
> I thought the following might amuse you - or otherwise
>
> Diana
> ___________________
>
> From Appendix (H) of the First Annual Report of the Registrar-
> General dated 25 July 1837.
>
> These were instructions from the Registrar-general to the officiating
> ministers of churches or chapels of the Church of England, in which
> marriages may lawfully be solemnized, on how to fill in and return
> the quarterly returns of Certified Copies containing details of all
> marriages and burials performed in their church during the preceding
> three months. He then emphasised that the preservation of these
> certified Copies in the General Register-Office in London will be
> proof of the marriage stating that:
>
> Quote
> "Thus the proof of Marriage, which hitherto has been frequently
> attended with much delay, difficulty, and expense, may, from this
> time forward, be obtained promptly, easily, and at a very trifling
> cost. But such benefits cannot be secured to the community without
> the due and regular transmission of certified Copies. I cannot doubt
> that this consideration will, to a Minister of Religion, be a
> sufficient inducement for the exact fulfilment of the civil duties
> thus assigned to him by law, especially when he feels that by
> neglecting to perform them he may inflict an injury, he knows not how
> serious, on the descendants of those who have received at his hands
> the holy ordinance of Marriage."
> End quote
>
> 'Obtained promptly', 'trifling cost', 'inflicting serious injury on
> descendants' !!!!!
Here are some more.....
John JENKIN,a "Shoemaker" at Oystermouth ,when he married Joan DAVID there 10 feb;1755. [ my 5 x great,grandparents]
John THOMAS who married Elizabeth BOWEN 1st;jan;1761 at Llanrhidian. [5]
David JENKIN married to Mary JENKIN at Oystermouth 21 Oct;1739. [7]
Edward ROSSER, [1739-1791] married to Lydia PHILLIP, [1739-1807] t
at Llandewi, 5 june 1766. [5]
George ROSSER, [1773-1855] married to Mary LLEWELLYN, [1770-1859] at Rhossilli, 9th; Oct;1799. [4]
Cheers,Graham.
From:- Graham WILLIAMS
of Canton,Cardiff.
Glam;FHS;#551.
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Hello everyone.And Happy New Year to all.
I have got one of the above in my "Gower Gang".
She is named as "Cicil"in the Llanrhidian Registers When she was the wife of David RICHARD.These being my 6 x great,grandparents.
Their Daughter Mary RICHARD,born 1730 in Llanrhidian, was the wife of my Ancestor James DAVID. [also born 1730 at Llanrhidian.]
James DAVID's parents were William [b.1701,son of another William] DAVID, and his wife Suzanne.
These are some of my other Ancestors in the Gower area.
The Numbers in Brackets denotes the # of Great,Grandparent's.
David GWYN who married Jennet MORGAN 8 november 1720 at Oystermouth.[6]
Matthew JONE[S]who married Joan BEVAN 7 june 1720 at Oystermouth. [6]
William ROSSER who married Luce BOUCHER 26 april 1736 at Llanrhidian.[6]
George PHILLIP who married Anne JONE 12 june 1735 at Llandewi. [6]
John SAMBROOK who married Hannah ELIAS at Swansea St;Mary's 4 jan;1735.[6]
David GRIFFITH who married Eleanor HARRY 4 jan;1727 at Bishopston.[7]
David GRIFFITH who married Catherine MORGAN 14 feb;1728 at Bishopston.[7]
Note:-The Daughter of David & Eleanor GRIFFITH,being Elizabeth[b.1728]married the son of David & Catherine,who was Morgan [b.1729] GRIFFITH, Married 1 nov;1750 at Bishopston.[6]
William THOMAS who married Martha HOPKIN at Llanrhidian 29 june 1733 [6]
All for now.
Cheers Graham.
From:- Graham WILLIAMS
of Canton,Cardiff.
Glam;FHS;#551.
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
I thought I'd have another go with my two Davies families who joined up in
Gelli having moved there from Llanegwad and Llangadock in Carmarthenshire.
My grandfather Morgan 'Elias' Davies (from Llangadock) worked on the
railway, down the mines and eventually opened his own butchers shop at 163 Gelli
Road, Gelli. Brothers Dafydd and John lived at Inkerman Street, Llanelli and
William lived at 12 Rees Street, Gelli. Elias' wife Dinah Davies (Llanegwad)
lived at 22 Taff Street, Gelli.
There were apparently two sisters on Dinah's side of the family, one from
Pencoed, Dryslwyn and Nantrhiwenllieiw, near Dryslwyn. It was a Mrs Davies
living at Dryslwyn and at the date of the information I have there was a
hauliers there by the name of Davies. How these two sisters connected to Dinah, we
would love to find out.
Anna
It is likely that the address will be recorded, and the grave number. In a
separate register by grave number it is possible to find out who is buried
in the same grave. In with my great-great-grandparents in Danygraig was a
child burial who was their great-granddaughter. Checking the surname in
question showed me who one of their grand-daughters had married.
Glamorgan FHS is in the process of transcribing Danygraig Burial Indexes -
the simple name and date ones which show grave number- but have not reached
1920 yet. I am copying to someone who may be able to give more information,
at least about the organisation of the burial records and who to contact.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yvonne Hills" <yhills(a)hotmail.co.uk>
To: "Glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com" <glamorgan(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:13 PM
Subject: [GLA] Burial Record Danygraig Cemetery
> Hi Listers,
>
> Just a short query, would a record of a burial give more information than
> a death certificate?
>
> My
> grandfather Thomas REES is buried in Danygraig Cemetery Swansea, as far
> as I am aware he was the only son of John REES(1840) & Emma THOMAS
> (1842) and brother of Mary Ann REES.
>
> Thomas Rees was buried 29
> April 1920.........very little is known about him, he adopted my
> grandmother sometime between 1896 and 1901. No-one in the family can
> remember his wife's name - I can pinpoint him on the 1871 and 1881
> Wales census as he is living with his parents, but there are too many
> matches on the 1891 & 1901 census. There is no documented evidence
> within the family.
>
> I can find my grandmother on the 1901
> census, she is recorded as a neice with her Aunt Mary who has now re-
> married, her previous married name was HALLIDAY and the other child
> recorded as a step-son is also a HALLIDAY, I've followed the HALLIDAY
> family fairly well, so I know that I have the right
> child................if my grandmother had been with her adopted
> parents then I wouldn't have a problem.
>
> Would the records office
> in Swansea hold a copy of burials for Danygraig?...I've only ever had
> copies of death certificates so far in my limited experience with
> family history so I've no idea re. burial records.
>
> As soon as I
> get an opportunity a trip to the records office is needed but in the
> meantime I'd be glad of any help or suggestions
>
> TIA
>
> Yvonne Hills
thank you
robert,
dai and angela,
john,
and glamsman
my harman side is prooving difficult to unravel
in 1841
esther harman aged 4 was a visitor with my great great grand parents her aunt and uncle
thomas thomas born about 1803/4
and his wife mary harman born 1811
[ married 4 jun1832 at st fagans witnes oliver jones and william thomas]
and their sons thomas thomas b 1833
john b 1834
thomas was a blacksmith at the tin works in whitchurch .
i was hoping that esther would give me mary's brother's name. i have never been able to take either mary or thomas back to their parents.
another clue is margaret thomas born 1838/9
who was with them in the 1851 census but again i haven't been able to find her birth the 1841 census may give her parents.
where is pengrch where esther is born in relation to whitchurch.
once again thanks all
denis edwards
Hi Listers,
Just a short query, would a record of a burial give more information than a death certificate?
My
grandfather Thomas REES is buried in Danygraig Cemetery Swansea, as far
as I am aware he was the only son of John REES(1840) & Emma THOMAS
(1842) and brother of Mary Ann REES.
Thomas Rees was buried 29
April 1920.........very little is known about him, he adopted my
grandmother sometime between 1896 and 1901. No-one in the family can
remember his wife's name - I can pinpoint him on the 1871 and 1881
Wales census as he is living with his parents, but there are too many
matches on the 1891 & 1901 census. There is no documented evidence
within the family.
I can find my grandmother on the 1901
census, she is recorded as a neice with her Aunt Mary who has now re-
married, her previous married name was HALLIDAY and the other child
recorded as a step-son is also a HALLIDAY, I've followed the HALLIDAY
family fairly well, so I know that I have the right
child................if my grandmother had been with her adopted
parents then I wouldn't have a problem.
Would the records office
in Swansea hold a copy of burials for Danygraig?...I've only ever had
copies of death certificates so far in my limited experience with
family history so I've no idea re. burial records.
As soon as I
get an opportunity a trip to the records office is needed but in the
meantime I'd be glad of any help or suggestions
TIA
Yvonne Hills
_________________________________________________________________
Telly addicts unite!
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
Hi Listers,
Just a short query, would a record of a burial give more information than a death certificate?
My grandfather Thomas REES is buried in Danygraig Cemetery Swansea, as far as I am aware he was the only son of John REES(1840) & Emma THOMAS (1842) and brother of Mary Ann REES.
Thomas Rees was buried 29 April 1920.........very little is known about him, he adopted my grandmother sometime between 1896 and 1901. No-one in the family can remember his wife's name - I can pinpoint him on the 1871 and 1881 Wales census as he is living with his parents, but there are too many matches on the 1891 & 1901 census. There is no documented evidence within the family.
I can find my grandmother on the 1901 census, she is recorded as a neice with her Aunt Mary who has now re- married, her previous married name was HALLIDAY and the other child recorded as a step-son is also a HALLIDAY, I've followed the HALLIDAY family fairly well, so I know that I have the right child................if my grandmother had been with her adopted parents then I wouldn't have a problem.
Would the records office in Swansea hold a copy of burials for Danygraig?...I've only ever had copies of death certificates so far in my limited experience with family history so I've no idea re. burial records.
As soon as I get an opportunity a trip to the records office is needed but in the meantime I'd be glad of any help or suggestions
TIA
Yvonne Hills
_________________________________________________________________
Get Hotmail on your mobile, text MSN to 63463!
http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/mail.aspx
Judy wrote:
> I have never seen a female name as "CECIL". Is this very unusual?
No, quite common, as were Phillip, Thomas & Vincent for naming
females for example. These names were certainly around from
mediaeval times. It was only with the Gothic revival of Victorian
times that there was a change to the Latin forms of these names -
Cecilia, Phillipa, Thomasia/Thomasina, and Vincentia.
Of course, these Latin versions of the names were what was written in
early documents/parish registers and it is only when both the English
and Latin forms occur in the same document (as they do very
occasionally) that the use of male names for females can be confirmed.
And if you don't believe me <grin> go and visit Bloxwich Parish
Church in Dorset where there is a 1694 memorial to Dame PHILIP
Trenchard nee Speke. As this memorial was erected by her son, I
presume he knew what his mother was called!!
Diana