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I'm also researching my ancestors from the area surrounding and including,
Trübau. I do not have the surnames as those you are searching, but I
thought I would
give you the name of a Czech researcher who is helping me with my family
history. He is
from the area which we are researching and knows
all the pertinent archives that
the various historical records.
He has been very helpful to me so far. His name is Jiri Osanec and can be
"Jiri OSANEC" <josanec(a)iol.cz>
He communicates in English and is very reasonably priced, in my opinion. We
agree on a dollar amount for his research. He
then does his research and sends
transcriptions, sometimes including pictures of towns or of particular home
and a graphic layout of the ancestry of family members he locates.
Good luck in your research. I'd be curious to hear what kind of information
Kirchenbuch provides you.
TOWNS - SURNAMES
Schneckendorf (Snekov) - B Langer, Nid(e)rle
Kornitz (Chornice) - Langer, Kretschmer, Budig, Fröhlich
Dittersdorf (Detrichov) - Peschka, Dirr (Dürr), Winkler
Dörfles (Viska u Jevicko) - Budig -> Budik, Schmid.
Hinter Erensdorf (Zadni Arnostov) - Haschka, Tutsch
Mährisch Neustadt (Unicov) - Maixner -> Meixner, Kauer
Lutsch (Dlouha Loucka) ) - Fromohlt (Fromholt?)
Mährisch Trubau (Moravska Trebova) - Meixner
Ranigsdorf (Linhartice) - Rössler
Undangs (Undanky) - Rössler, Hekele
Benke (Benkov) - Körner, Schubert
Tschuschitz (Susice)- Tinkl
Altstadt (Stare Mesto) - Peschka, Langer
Groswitschitz -- 10 km north westerly from Podersam. Mayor in 1902 is Osmund
Hohentrebetitsch -- 3.4 km from Podersam. Mayor in 1902 is Eduard Hinklmann.
Kaschitz -- 6.1 km north of Podersam. Mayor in 1902 is Karl Korner. First
school teacher was Franz Konig till 1833. Since his death Johann Dittrich is
the school leader. "As special promoters of the school were josef Zabransky
(died in 1882 in Graz) and the estate owner Edmund Stanka; the main merit of the
first was the founding of the school, the latter was instrumental as school
inspector of many years to direct numerous and valuable donations of teaching
materials." Present (1902) school staffing is johann Dittrich (senior teacher-
principal), Adolf Scheiter (teacher), miss Augusta Killian (home economics
teacher). P. Josef Gros gives religius instruction. Sandy
Groschau -- 6.4 km northwest of Podersam. Mayor is Alfred Knobloch in 1902.
Grosotschehau -- 5.5 km souteast of Podersam. Mayor is Karl Nack in 1902.
The leaders of the school through time are: Josef Leiner 1753 - 63; Franz
Josef Vettermann 1764 - 1818; Prokop Micksch 1818 - 36; Peter micksch 1836 - 75;
Anton Scharloth 1875 - 85; Candidus Bergner 1885 - 91; and Anton leo Dembitzki
1891 - present.
Also, teaching home ec are Wenzel Punzl, Josef Reim and Fanny Dembitzky.
Catholic religion is taught by P. Josef Hauschild, chaplain in Podersam.
Wohlau -- 3.4 km from podersam toward Rudig. Chapel built by Wenzel Eberl
and Hyronumus Hochberger. There is a pretty good story and family history about
the Hochberger family. If anyone wants it let me know off the list. Sandy
Hi, my name is Ray,
I'm searching for information about my Grandparents who grew up in the town
of Mahrische Trubau, Moravia, Austria in the mid 1880s. The town is now called
Moravska Trebova, Czech Rep. My Grandfather's name was Frank Joseph Klapka and
my Grandmother's name was Ludmilla Mentzl. I am currently waiting on
information from the local Family History Center. The information is
entitled "Kirchenbuch, 1784-1912" that my contain information I'm seeking. The
publication is in German and I will have to translate.
What suggestions are available to further my search? Kind regards, Ray Klapka
I do not have any specific information on them but there are many
Soukups living in and around the community of West, Texas (about 15 miles north of
There were also some Soukups living in Burlington and Rosebud, Texas
(where I was raised).
Frank Soukup was a blacksmith and ground corn into cornmeal for the
public. He was quite a comic character.
He had one glass eye. He lost his eye while trying to pick up a dead
chicken as he rode past it on a motorcyle.
He always wore a striped cap (like railroad conductors wear) and rode
a bicycle around town. Whenever he was riding his bicycle past a lady he would
always tip his cap but when he attempted to lift his cap it would raise him
off the bicycle seat (as if the cap was stuck to his head).
He was very talented in welding and working with steel and had a
number of "tricks", one of which was that he would heat a piece of steel until it
was white hot and would lick it and it did not burn his tongue. I wouldn't
suggest that anyone try this but I wish I had learned more about how he did that.
I am looking for info on the family of Thomas and Marie Soukup.
Thomas was born 1842 in Czech and his wife Marie was born 1844 in
Czech. They had 8 children:Marie born 1864; Frank J born 1870; Thomas
born 1872; Rosalie born 1875 who married Patrick McCarthy; Anna born
1877; Jacob born 1879, Joseph born 1881 and Christina born 1883. I
believe the family came to the US in 1880. They purchased a farm in
Vesli, Minnesota USA.
Patrick McCarthy married Rosalie Soukup in 1894 in Montgomery,
Minnesota. They had 8 children: Patrick died 1895; Mary born 1896;
William born 1898; Emma born 1900; Patarick H born 1904; John born
1908; Margaret born 1910; and Francis born 1912.
I am trying to find parents of both Thomas Soukup (born 1842) and
his wife Marie (born 1844) Thomas and Marie are both buried in
Trebon Cemetery, Shieldsville Township, Minnesota.
If you have info on this family please contact me thru email address:
The village Godesin is located 12.1 km from Podersam via a passable road and
9 km on foot. The current mayor in 1902 was Franz Urban. The school is under
the direction of Alois Guba. The church is in Pomeisl. Home econonics is
taught by Mrs. Anna Track.
The village of Golleschau is located 9.5 km from Podersam. The mayor is
Anton Gassauer in 1902. I'll type the paragraph on the history of the school
since it contains several names.
"Before the year 1801 the children visited the school in Strojeditz. In that
year a one-room school was set up in Strojeditz and Muckhof with Horachowitz
(which previously was part of the school area of Dekau) belonged to the school
area. The first teacher was Prokop Miksch; he taught until the building of
the school house in one of the larger rooms of the Meierhof. One of his
successors, Norbert Muller, received from His Majesty the silver cross of merit with
crown because of his many years of professional activity on April 20th 1869.
1858 Horschowitz was separated from the school area and in 1860 the old
school house renovated. From 1871 - 1885 teacher Franz Krieger was active,
following him Josef Stark till 1894, then Josef Jilka till 1902. Under the latter
the school was upgraded and a second room added and in 1897 a very good school
building at a cost of 16.945 K erected. Present status of the teaching staff:
Paul Klier (Oberlehrer - senior teacher- since 1902), Paul Kriso, teacher,
Miss Anna Lifka, home economics teacher. Instruction in the Catholic religion is
proveded by reverened P. Karl Ditrich from Strojeditz." Sandy
In the birth record of my ggrandfather in the parish of Weissensulz in western Bohemia, it is stated that the home village of his father was Dobrikov. After several years of fruitless searching, I discovered that his home village was actually Dobesov in southern Bohemia. Either the father didn't want his home village known or there was some pretty sloppy record keeping.
Someone sent me an address for a Prof. Jiri Rychetsky from near
Humpolec. I have lost it. If anyone has it can they please send it.
I am researching the Ryschetsky name in Opatov-Jihlava region.
Families were in Optov, Dujesov, Vyskytna villiages.
Nancy Russell Anderson From SD At nrussell(a)itctel.com (NO CAPS)
Searching Lomica/Mikeska From Zadverice,MOR -Ord, NE- St Louis -
Dolejsi, Prague to St. Louis
Washechek(Vasicek, Duba) from Opatov Boh.-Grant WI-Brule SD
Wodraska(Vodraska) or Wodwaska Sobeslav-Minden, Mi-SD...
Podersam district -- village of Dollanka -- not much about individuals in
this section but it does say the mayor in 1902 was Edmund Korner.
Podersam district -- village of Flohau -- "Presiding the city administration
is at present the mayor Josef Stohr, owner of the golden cross of merit with
crown." (1902) The city scribe in 1726 was J. Wenzel Wokaty. Mayors is former
times were Andreas Wolf in 1651, Johann W. Wokaty in 1718, Johann Christian
Fiedler in 1738, Franz Fiedler in 1770 - 76, Franz Josef Grimb 1777 - 79, Josef
Nep. Heger 1780 - 88, Johann Grimb 1789 - 90, Josef Heger 1790 - 95, Johann
Peter Dorr 1797 - 1804, Franz Wenzel Samuel 1805 - 21, Anton Kreil 1822 - 26,
Anton Stockl 1827 - 39, Karl Waller 1840 - 49, Vincenz Hes 1850 - 60, Ludwig
Loschner 1861 - 63, Johann Oeser 1863 - 65, Rudolf Stockl 1866 - 74, Josef Hes
no C.31 1875 - 77, Josef Hes no C. 93 1877 - 83 Since 1883 Josef Stohr is
entrusted without interruption with the office of mayor.
A list of teachers in the school follows: Zacharias Richter 1662, Johann
Gottfried Burggraf 1681, Andreas Gamisch 1720, Johann Wenzel Roth 1743, Johann
Georg Schubert 1747, Martin Samuel 1755, Johann Anton Landschakh 1758, Adalbert
Strohschneider 1762 - 67, Josef Schneider 1767 - 73, Johann Wenzel Grundt 1773
- 75, Johann Wenzel Rubisch 1775 - 1805, Franz Lenz 1805 - 1841, Franz
Wohlrath 1841 - 1856, Franz lang 1857 - 1892, Theodor Wollomitzer 1892 -- today
(1902). For the present time (1902) it lists the following teachers -- Theodore
Willomitzer senior teacher or principal, Ludwig Nossek (Lehrer), Anna Schauer
(teacher), Anna Wartusch (home economics teacher).
The mayor in 1902 was Josef Albert. There is a long story about the people
of this village who back in history were given been granted certain freedom of
all robot and other service obligations. Over time as the owner changed they
lost these freedoms but they kept trying to get them back. In 1831 one person
-- Josef Tobisch owner of property No 13 dared to go to court at a cost of
400 fl. finally is 1833 he did get his requirement reduced from three days per
week to one day per week. This was kept secret from the other farmers. Sandy
The Podersam book now has a section that gives info about the villages in
that district. The first village is Chmeleschen. It says the mayor in 1902 is
Anton Peter. He describes the village and then quotes from a document that he
says was from "the time of the Leibeigenschaft (servitude). "Your High
Imperial Princely Most Highly Born Sire! Your most high Imperial highness may it
please you to entertain a plea from one of your subjects from the dominion
Schonhof. I have an only son and am in possession of the black smith shop in the
village Chmeleschen with several acres of taxable land of the dominion
Schonhof, which I intend to pass on to my son, so as to provide a living for him,
since for that purpose he has to leaarn the black smith trade, for which the
dominion office cannot give the necessary permission without his Highness (express)
permission. Therefore I prostrate myself and beg to give permission for the
necessary consent. The All Mighty will richly reward those, for which we beg
and plea. Your most true and subservient subject of the dominion Schonhof
Josef Klein, village black smith of Chmeleschen."
For this the following disposition was made: "I herewith permit graciously
that the appellant be given the consent for his son Joseph to learn the trade
of black smith, Decreed Vienna, June 18th 1780. Josef Count Colleredo (He was
at the time the guardian of the Tschernin dominion). The translator writes
that this passage was "loaded with expressions of subjection and devotion which
he found difficult to translate literally and is indicative of the huge
difference between the nobility and the serfs. Sandy
I have a similar situation. The Czech Genealogist explained it this way.
He said that in the early years our kin had to have the permission of the
government to marry. The government did not give this easily so many
couples just set up housekeeping. Then when they were finally allowed
to marry the kids records were corrected.
NancyNancy Russell Anderson From SD At nrussell(a)itctel.com (NO
Searching Lomica/Mikeska From Zadverice,MOR -Ord, NE- St Louis -
Dolejsi, Prague to St. Louis
Washechek(Vasicek, Duba) from Opatov Boh.-Grant WI-Brule SD
Wodraska(Vodraska) or Wodwaska Sobeslav-Minden, Mi-SD...
From: Aida Kraus
To: Jeff Jordan
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: Fajtl
In answer to your Email, Cammie....They sometimes named their children after family member, mostly however, after their sponsors, not their fathers. Sponsorship (2 people) was a very serious commitment then, because many parents died early. In that case the sponsors raised the child. This commitment is recorded in the baptismal records of each church. Mothers died in childbirth quite frequently and widowers remarried sometimes 4 times in their lifetime. Most of new settler families - first generation - did not make it to 40 years of age, 50 being a ripe old toothless age, and 60 was considered an extended life time. After 1900 it increased to 70 and now 80 or 90 is almost the "expected" life span. In the 1600 and 1700 it was much easier to replace a wife than a horse, because a horse was expensive, while a new wife brought along a dowry. Men also died young because of the hard work. Badly mended broken bones and outbreaks of diseases were often rampant. Many m!
en died of hernias, gangrene, typhoid, cholera, and many other infectious diseases that now are easily treated with antibiotics and are no longer in the "deadly" category. Gangrene, lockjaw and mastoid are no longer considered a deadly disease as it was then. Families were large, because the survival of a child to its 5th birthday was extremely rare and large families were needed to work the land to survive. The larger the family, the stronger and wealthier they became and this also guaranteed the protection and care for the entire clan and their elders. Marriages were most often arranged, so that neighboring land was joined, providing more wealth and a better livelihood for the next generation. One son usually inherited the farm, while other siblings learned a trade that was supportive of the farm. Shoemakers belonged to a guild and wooden lasts were custom wood-carved to replicate a person's foot, and a last was made for each pair of shoes.... blacksmith were th!
e mechanics for farm tools..... bakers and butcher belonged also to a guild and provided cash products ..... same with tailors and furriers. Often farmers became linenweavers, stocking knitters, lacemakers, spinners of wool and all women learned to work a loom, knitting, quilting and crocheting. There were also masons, butchers, coopers, farriers, carpenters, brick- or pottery makers, and each trade had a 3 year apprentice program, and afterwards a 2 year journeymanship supported by the guild with a workbook where each employer entered the tasks the journeyman performed, the time period and location...When a journeyman wanted to become a Master craftsman, a certain amount of money had to be paid to the guild to receive a master's license, but then, a piece of workmanship, worthy of a master's trade, had to be submitted, and this was examined by the board of examiners of the guild. Upon satisfaction, they received a masters certificate and they were then able to start t!
heir own businesses. In Germany there was mandatory public schooling after the thirty years war, first for 4 years, then 6 and lastly 8. Higher learning was obtained in monastery schools and, consequently, at Universities. The first Universities in Europe were established in the 13th Century (like at Aachen, Heidelberg and Prague) and there was no sweatshop child abuse on the continent, as it was in England. - Just to give you a little background on your most probable ancestry. However, your ancestry will not be proven, unless you can research one lead document to the next. The old records of names collected in Gondroms "Deutsches Namenlexikon" merely leads us to the most probable place where the first surnames appeared, but this is not necessarily the true place of origin of your own family. Good luck! Aida
In regard to the LDS History Center, they have a website where you can check to see what records are available. That website is http://www.familysearch.org/
Check the Library catalog on the lower right side of the home page. Then click on "Place" and type in the name of the town you are looking for. It will provide you with a listing of all the films and resources they have on the town you are researching.
In my area (central Minnesota) these centers are manned by volunteers, most often retired people and people who are doing research themselves so they aren't always experts on genealogy research. There are limited days/hours when you will find someone there. The website will also tell you where the nearest history center is for your location. It will also give you the days and hours this center is open.
I found it easiest to look for a date that you know and work backwards from there. I knew my husband's grandfather's date of birth, but his death certificate listed his mother's maiden name as "unknown". I almost turned cartwheels when I found him listed in the baptism records of St. Agatha's church in Epe, Germany on the correct date. It even gave the hour of birth, the baptismal sponsors, residence of the parents and more. Best of all, I now know that my husband's grandmother did indeed have a "name"!!! Leora Wilkes
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I have a gggfather who was born in 1816 and listed as illegitimate on his
baptism, In 1820 , at the wedding of his parents he was listed as being
legitimate thru the marriage. I hope this is of help. - sorry for the delay
caused by being away on holidays. Herb Schwarz, Ontario,Canada
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 4:00 PM
Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Legitimization process of illegitimate born
> I wonder about the legitimization process of illegitimate born children
> around 1847.
> What kind of civil or legal papers had to be filled out, to legitimate an
> illegitimate born child?
> Parents married 2 years after the birth of this child. In the birth record
> the remark:
> "Per subsequens matrimonium contracta legitimate"
> 1) After 2 years - was it really enough to marry and to simply inform the
> 2) Or did they have to fill out other papers, which could be researched
> 3) Would have been the same sentence written in the church books, when
> a new husband (more or less) "adopted" a child?
> Thanks for any answers.
> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ====
Jeff, to get at any church records of any village or town in the world, the
best source is the Family Research Center of the Mormon Church. Go to your
local FRC and give them then Name of Mühlheim, Baden, and let them look up
the Microfilm Number in their Records. Then order this number, the cost
will be $3.50 per reel. They have microfilm viewers at their centers and
copying machines, where you can copy the original entry. Be sure to write
down the TOMUS (Volume) and page number of the record and it will become a
document. This is "true research" and these records are telling a story,
like reading a book. You can find not only your ancestor, but his parents
will be recorded there if they are from the same town, and then you can go
back about 20 some years and find their birth records and parentage as well.
Also, look into the death records and marriage records under the name of the
family you are researching and you will find a wealth of information! You
are very lucky to have your family source in Germany, their records are well
represented and open to the Public. Instead, the Czech Republic is not
sharing their records with the Archives at Salt Lake City and German
Bohemians must spent a lot of money to get copies of their ancestry. You
can find all other European Countries, some African, and even Chinese
records represented in the archives of the LDS Family Research Centers.
There is a chapter in the Podersam book on customs. In that chapter the
author quotes from two letters he has re the christening of children. I quote as
he did. He says these are called the "Godfathers letters" and were prepared
by the local teacher.
"To the most honorable and virtuous bachelor Joseph Ludwig, civic master
furrier in the town of Rudig; as my specially honored and dear godfather:
Honorable and most virtous! Speically dear godfather we are asking most humbly to help
us to transport our recently born little son, may it please God, on Thursday
afternoon at 1 o'clock, to the first and necessary Holy sacrament of
christening. Which Christian attendance would please me and I would remain forever
indebted with respect to my dear godfather -- most obedient Rochus Wild the
childs father. Rudig, 22nd July 1784"
There is a similar letter written to lady Katharina Ludwig(in) as the
godmother from the same gentleman but it is dated March 15, 1794. Another child I
suppose because this letter says the christening will be "this evening."
Then he writes -- "Apart from the actual Godfathers often a number of cousins
were invited; e.g. in the register of christenings for Kriegern (volume II
from 20./1.1699 till 10./3.1740) it is recorded: April 28th 1720 the resident
Cantor Johann Adam Horner with his wife Katharina had their son christened by
the name of Johann Anton. Godfather was Herr Johann Anoni Schwab, captain from
Pomeisl. Other attendants: Johann Christoph Lang, Pomeisl reverend, Franz
Frankh, caplan in Pomeisl, Friedericus Wurfl, priest from Petersburg, Wenzl
Forber, recorder of grains from Petersburg, Martin Quoika, new miller, Johannes
Titlback from Rudig, Adam Polestina Stolz(in), mother of the local priest, and
Anna Rosina Sacher(in) from Kriegern"
Then the Author says "And on page 71 of the same register: September 13th the
resident citizen Joseph Stolz with his wife Katharina had a young daugher
christened with the name Anna Sidonia. Godmother was Sydonia Heuber(in). Other
godparents were Joh. Christoph Lang, priest in Pomeisl, Wenzl Muller, priest
in Flohau, Lorenz Ballisakh, priest in Rudig, Friedrich Wurfl, priest in
Petersburg, Georg Huetz, priest in Widhostitz, Johannes Spitzl, master of rents in
Pomeisl, Wenzl Forber, treasurer in Pomeisl, Katharina Horner(in), wife of the
schoold master, Eva Rosina Halbhuber(in), Sussana halbhuber(in), Sylvin
Muller(in) from Kriegern. - Also Mr and Miss von Stampach are mentioned several
times as godparents."
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