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My great great grandfather is John J Sembera. He was born Dec. 29, 1840
in Bohemia. He lived in Horni Cermna for 4 years. He died Feb. 20, 1920
in Bryan, TX. Thank you for any information.
SEMBERA JASEK JANCA HUBLE HYBNER FRIEDA VINKLAREK SCHROEDER FIELD PATTON
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Looking for info on Emma SCHULTZ. She was born about 1881/82 and
emmigrated to the US in 1882. Naturalized in 1887 in ??? Her family
either came from Bohemia (per on 1920 census) or Pommern per my
grandmother. Emma was married to a SHANTEAU and he deserted her and the
children. Emma lived near Toledo OH according to my grandmother.
Sometime between 1905 & 1912 she remarried to Charles Joseph MALISH and
they moved to Isabella Co MI. If we can connect please email
David J. McCallister ( David(a)Mccallister.net )
WV M*CCALLISTERs http://david.mccallister.net/
M*CALLISTER, Z*IRKLE, S*CHULTZ, TACKETT, and M*ALISH list owner
Putnam Co WV Genweb Coordinator & Rootsweb Sponsor
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I am a newbie in search of any information or connections I can find. I
recently found some of my family information in the Chicago Cech/Bohemian
paper that indicated that my g g granfather Vaclav (James) Spicka was born
in a different place than family myth places him and his wife Joesepha.
How would I find the Correct information?
I am also new to this list. I just found out that my great-grandfather came
from Wottawas, which is about 20 miles southwest of Plzen (it was Pilsen).
Could someone tell me, please, how to find church records there. Are they
still at the local churches, or are they in a central archives? Josef Neumann
was born there in December, 1858, and came to Galesburg, Illinois in 1882.
Thank you for any help!
I am new to the list. The name that I am researching is Kosark. I do not
know the town or area but am told that My ancestors with this surname are from
Czech Republic Bohemia/Austria Germany area.
Carol Ann Kosark Southard
My Kosark Family Tree
ICQ #: 464491
-=> Quoting KarenHob of 17 Aug 98 19:43:30 <=-
ATTENTION: Very long mail! Please skip, if not interested in
********** Sudeten dialects!
Sometimes, my mail server cuts mails after a certain
length. If you feel this has happened, pls inform me.
> I would like to be able to begin to copy Sudeten dialect words
> to the software dictionary but I need a reference that will help
> me to identify the various spellings of words which have the
> same German equivalent that are found in Sudeten publications.
The general problem with the many different Sudeten (and other)
dialects, plus their regional variants, is that they don't have
the simple sound patterns like Hochdeutsch, nor the simple
consistent representation of Hochdeutsch sounds in German spelling.
E.g. the German vowel U is always pronounced the same simple ways:
- a short U is written 'U', and sounds similar to the vowel in
the English word 'to', and
- a long U is written 'U' or 'UH', and sounds similar to the
vowel of the English word 'too'.
(Contrast to the chaotic English pronunciation of the 'u' in
'lure', 'lurk', 'lust', etc., or the spelling of 'u' sounds like
in 'wool' and 'wood'.)
In my own Egerland dialect, e.g., there exists a nasal 'u' sound,
unknown in Hochdeutsch (and most other dialects/languages/slangs).
How should we write it in German (or English) characters???
In the U.S., like in Sudetenland, there are "audio" and "wording"
differences between persons of different regions (Texas, Pennsyl-
vania -- Boehmen, Maehren), and persons of the same region but
different education or descent (California Hispanic/Chinese --
Egerland farmer/professor). But almost no American cares if there
is a orthography of rural Texan American.
Once, I saw a 'Sprachatlas' for the Sudeten region in the 'Haus
der Heimat' in Stuttgart. It contained "linguistic maps" which
showed in which regions the dialect, used there, descends from
which of several "primary German dialects" (like Nordbayerisch),
and it listed comparative pronunciation samples of the same words,
as well as different words for the same object (e.g. 'butcher'
is either oriented to the German words 'Metzger' or 'Fleischer',
depending on the dialect used), in different regions.
As far as I know, there is no generally or officially approved
standard of writing one or more Sudeten German dialects. (That's
exactly one of the two big differences between a 'dialect' and
So, each dialect writer uses a rather individual way, which will
include some already commonly used sound symbols like an 'a' with
a superset small 'o', which normally represents a sound between
the German 'a' and 'o' (same spelling and sound as in Norwegian!;
in English, this sound would be pronounced like the compound 'aw',
e.g. in the word 'hawk').
But other writers, lacking a type-writer/computer with the symbol
'a superset o', might instead use the compound symbol '(ao)', or
quite simply 'o' (which is not good, in my opinion, but (s)he who
*speaks* the dialect, will understand even bad representations).
> "GSigmaihts hea(r, dia(r)ts shain Maidla, lsigmau(ss)ts end wos daziahln,
> heint m÷i(ss ma fei(n a waeng onerscht dischkarian!"
> The small circle over the "a" appears in "lau(ss)ts in a book
> written in 1967 and parentheses are used frequently.
In my own Egerlaendrisch, I would rather spell it "lao(ss)ts",
which means a sequence of German
- 'l', followed by
- a short 'a' and 'o' (sequentially! the followong double 's'
consonants determine the *shortness* of the 'a' plus 'o'),
followed by an
- eventually *omitted* (= that's what the parentheses mean) and
voiceless 's' sound, ending by
- 't' and 's'.
A more educated person possibly would pronounce the double 's' in
the middle, because it would be more like the normally written
Re. '...a(r' or '...a(r)...':
Pronounced exactly like the Englisch indefinite article "a" (e.g.
in "a book"). The ending parenthesis of a word usually is omitted.
Re. '...ei(n' or '...ei(n)...':
In German, 'ei' is pronounced like the English vowel 'I' (e.g. in
'I am the greatest'). Americans normally mix up German 'ei' with
'ie' (which is pronounced like the American 'ee' in 'deep').
The 'n' between parentheses, in 'fei(n' or 'fei(n)', signals that
the preceding compound sound of 'ei' will be a nasalized sound
(you don't really hear an 'n'!).
The ending parenthesis of a word usually is omitted.
'heint' (=heute =today) could better have been spelled 'hei(n)t',
at least in my own regional dialect, and many other words could
also have been spelled in a slightly different way.
Similar rules applie to 'm÷i(ss'.
> In the 1987 Jeschken-Iser Jahrbuch I find:
I cannot talk about that dialect. Although it is a Sudeten dialect,
it is absolutely different from my Egerlaender dialect (I only can
guess its sound and meaning).
> Here the only diacritical marks are the regular umlauts and I am
> assuming that the spellings are more or less phonetic. (When I
> hear this spoken it reminds me of Yiddish.)
Well, Yiddish descends from medieval German, mixed with hebrew
words (but the text quoted by you does *not* contain Hebrew).
A smart German will understand many non-Hebrew parts.
> In "VolkserzSigmahlungen aus dem OberpfSigmalzisch-B÷hmischen Grenzgebeit"
> Ulrich Benzel, 1968, I find a passage that I am guessing is about a cat
> that had kittens that went in and out through a big hole in the door.
> The Hirschauer made four little holes for them which were somehow
> better .
> Woar einmal a Hirschauer, der hout a scheene Kotzn ghobt. Amol hout
> die Kotzn Junge brocht. Fier sie Kotzn hout der Hirschauer a grousses
> Luoch im Dor ghobt, dou is Kotzn immer durchgonger.
That's a mixture of 'educated German' and dialect. In Oberpfaelzer
and Egerlaender dialect, you would not use the Hochdeutsch word
'einmal', but write something like 'am(ao)l' (or worse: 'amol', as
he does later in the same line).
Free translation (only the first part):
Once, there was a (male) person from Hirschau, who had a beautiful
cat. One day, the cat gave birth to kittens. For his [the dialect
text certainly should read 'sei' or better 'sei(n', but not 'sie']
cat, the man from Hirschau had a big hole in the door, where the
cat used to passs through.
> In this text the letter "i " in the words "fier, vier, Eitzer and
> geihts" is smaller size than the other letters and is in "superscript"
> -- it is raised up above the letter "e" that precedes or follows it in
> the same word.
A small raised 'i' means a gliding-short German 'i', similar to a
consonant-type English 'y' like in 'yell', or the English 'i' in
the exclamation word 'boing!' (contrast to a vowel-type 'i' like
in English 'doing').
'fier' certainly does *not* have a consonant-type 'i', so it
should rather be a normal-hight 'i' (suppose this is the typo of
an editor not speaking this dialect).
And 'vier' is Hochdeutsch for '4', not dialect at all.
But 'eitzer' (=jetzt =(Engl.) 'now') would be completely o.k. with
a small raised (= gliding, consonant-type) German 'i'.
> Can someone tell me if these different ways of writing dialect
> 1) A different way to write dialect for different Sudeten
> "Sprach Inseln?"
Yes. But none is standard, as there do not exist any real
standards for the several quite different Sudeten dialects.
Depends very much on the writer.
> 2) A change in the way that dialect is written between
> 1967-68 and 1987?
Suppose 'no'. For one of the Sudeten dialects, my Egerlaender
dialect, which is very similar to the (Bavarian) Oberpfaelzer
dialect, one could ask if any German colleges are working on
this (as Oberpfalz is one of the big Bavarian regions).
But I am not aware of anything going on.
> Can anyone recommend a book or books that would help me to
> sort this out?
> My searches of the World Catalog have not found any Sudeten / German
> dictionaries or any other promising titles on the subject.
> locked case and I could not examine it. At the time I did not think I
> would ever need such a book and I did not note the
> title/author/publisher. Now I would like to buy it if I can find it.
> Does anyone know anything about that book?
For the above three quoted paragraphs:
Contact the Bibliothek im Haus der Heimat, Stuttgart
(Rosemarie Kutschis, and Marie-Luise Raichle).
As you know: e-mail in English.
It stands for "Ingenieur" (engineer). Occupational titles can be in front
or after a person's name.
On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Ronald V. Mlejnek wrote:
> Can someone tell me what the title "Ing." stands for? It always precedes a
> person's first name and is fairly common in Czech and German listings of names.
The Ing. means Engineer. Sometimes it is found before or after the name.
From: Ronald V. Mlejnek <mlejnek(a)tcgcs.com>
To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L(a)rootsweb.com <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 12:07 PM
Subject: European Titles
>Can someone tell me what the title "Ing." stands for? It always precedes a
>person's first name and is fairly common in Czech and German listings of
Johann Martin Woidig * 1692 married Margaretha Dietrich in 1770.
They had a son Adam Woidig on 12 Nov 1709 in Oberklee (sobesleby),
Christian Ibner * 1690 married Maria Lüssa and had a daughter
Catharina on 25 Feb 1714 in Oberklee
Any matches out there?
Bill Chapman Downey, CA
Martin Melzer, born about 1700 in Bohemia married Rosina Kühnel
on 13 Oct 1723 in Lenneschitz near Laun. In abt 1740 they had
a son Martin in Lenneschitz. He married Veronica Kraibach in
Lenneschitz on 8 Jan 1760. They had a daughter Rosalia on 20 Aug 1812
in Tscheraditz (Ceradice) who died before 1873.
Johann Diesl, * abt 1750 in Bohemia +before 1801 in Chräntschowitz
and Elizabeth Gienterod * abt 1750 had a daughter Katharina Freischlag
(??) in 1779 in geischowitz. Katharina died before 1837
Bill Chapman Downey, CA
Melchior Fischer, born about 1720 in Bohemia, father of
Michael Fischer, born 1735, married Margaretha Denkh on 23 Nov 1762 in
Stanowitz near Tepl. Margaretha was daughter of Christian Denkh, who
died in Bohemia before 1762.
Bill Chapman Downey, CA
Hi List .........
As USUAL, my request was MET by persons whose "collective knowledge"
exceeds my *feeble attempts* to gather FACTS !!
Many THANX to all who responded (and those also who "sneered" at my
lack of ability !!).
Bud Swendner/ Gschwendtner
< swede(a)neworld.net >
After many months of research in Poland (Lodz), I have made a link,
albeit tenuous, with Bohemia for the family line that I am tracing.
I am attempting to establish a starting point in Bohemia for Anton
Wagner (born approx 1776) and his wife Rozalia (maiden name unknown).
Anton Wagner and his family appear to have left Bohemia about 1822 for
the area around Lodz where he established a textile manufactory. All
members of the family seem to have been invovlved in the cloth weaving
industry (most were either apprentice, journeyman or master weavers).
My only chance, as least as far as I can see, is to focus on areas in
Bohemia known for textile manufacturing just prior to 1822. If anyone
might be able to lead me in the right direction I would be very grateful
as my experience with Bohemian genealogy is quite limited at this stage.
Thanks in advance
If you wish to respond to the following forwarded message, PLEASE DO NOT just
hit the Reply button. The message is not from me, but from Richard Scheimann
GERMAN-BOHEMIAN List Administrator
------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------
From: "Richard Scheimann" <scheiman(a)niia.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:50:17 -0500
To: "Paula M. Goblirsch" <pmg(a)arcwelder.micro.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Iglau
> > I am looking for leads on the Igelhart family of Iglau (or of the
> > Iglau Sprachinsel).
> > Richard Scheimann
------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------
Hi List ....
After NUMEROUS YEARS of frustrating search, I have FINALLY located my
Grandfathers birth record (ending my search for his correct surname
spelling !! The CORRECT SPELLING => "Gschwendtner"). This Record came
from the Parish Church.
However, there are several notations in the document I am unable to
solve; can someone help me ??
1) Geburt regelmässig => "normal birth" ?
2) Müllerstochter => "Millers daughter" ?
3) Coop.Expositus Liebl => ??
4) (relating to time of birth) um 1/2 10 Uhr früh => "1/2 hour after 10"
5) 8Uhr abends => "about 8 o'clock" ?
6) Wohnung beim uxor => ??
Thanx for any help ........
< swede(a)neworld.net >
I have been using translation software to assist me with translations of
articles about Sudeten history, culture and traditions as well as some texts
written during the nineteenth century -- i.e., passages from the survey of
Bohemia by J.G. Sommer and from Fontane's histories of the Wars of German
Unification. My software program is a good "word cruncher" that saves me a
lot of dictionary time. The hard-disk dictionary it provides has been updated
with each new project so that it now contains a lot of obsolete nineteenth-
century German and Austrian words. I would like to be able to begin to copy
Sudeten dialect words to the software dictionary but I need a reference that
will help me to identify the various spellings of words which have the same
German equivalent that are found in Sudeten publications.
In books containing narratives from Egerland I find:
"G�ihts hea(r, dia(r)ts shain Maidla, l�u(ss)ts end wos daziahln, heint m�i(ss
ma fei(n a waeng onerscht dischkarian!"
The small circle over the "a" appears in "lau(ss)ts in a book written in 1967
and parentheses are used frequently.
In the 1987 Jeschken-Iser Jahrbuch I find:
"Woas mocht oak wieder vr a Oaloass sein, r�chtsch wejssch orntlich nehmih. S
�s ja au a enntun woas luus. S ging halt wiedr amoul d Stubbtier uuf, rei
koam ejs �ms andre woas son Haus ghort, noahmn mein Hand ond sojtn a poar
schie auswendsch glernte Wertl."
Here the only diacritical marks are the regular umlauts and I am assuming that
the spellings are more or less phonetic. (When I hear this spoken it reminds
me of Yiddish.)
In "Volkserz�hlungen aus dem Oberpf�lzisch-B�hmischen Grenzgebeit" by Ulrich
Benzel, 1968, I find a passage that I am guessing is about a cat that had
kittens that went in and out through a big hole in the door. The Hirschauer
made four little holes for them which were somehow better .
Woar einmal a Hirschauer, der hout a scheene Kotzn ghobt. Amol hout die Kotzn
Junge brocht. Fier sie Kotzn hout der Hirschauer a grousses Luoch im Dor
ghobt, dou is Kotzn immer durchgonger.
Eitzer hout er die veir kloinen Kotzn gesehn. Hot er gsogt: "Dou mou wos
gschehn." Er is hergonger und hot veir kloine Lecher in sie Dor gschneidn und
hout gsogt: "Eitzer geihts besser, eitzer gibts kei Dr�ngelei."
In this text the letter "i " in the words "fier, vier, Eitzer and geihts" is
smaller size than the other letters and is in "superscript" -- it is raised up
above the letter "e" that precedes or follows it in the same word.
Can someone tell me if these different ways of writing dialect represent:
1) A different way to write dialect for different Sudeten "Sprach Inseln?"
2) A change in the way that dialect is written between 1967-68 and 1987?
Does anyone know if there is now a standard way to write Sudeten dialect?
Can anyone recommend a book or books that would help me to sort this out? Are
there any dissertations about Sudeten dialect?
My searches of the World Catalog have not found any Sudeten / German
dictionaries or any other promising titles on the subject.
In 1997 I was at the Sudeten Treffen in Nurnberg. There was a place at the
back of the hall where a woman was telling folktales in Sudeten dialect from
time to time. In that same place there was a display of some books about
Sudeten dialect. One of the books was a new Lexicon that contained Sudeten
words with their German equivalents. It was a fairly thick book - maybe three
inches or so. The book was inside a locked case and I could not examine it.
At the time I did not think I would ever need such a book and I did not note
the title/author/publisher. Now I would like to buy it if I can find it.
Does anyone know anything about that book?
Incidentally, a friend who visited Prague last year was able to purchase all
16 books in the J.G. Sommer survey of Bohemia collection. He has photocopied
all of them for me. If anyone is interested in copies made from my copies,
let me know and I will see what I can do.
In a message dated 98-08-14 09:02:50 EDT, you write:
What is the relationship between the "draft" and having a passport? Also,
what does leaving from a German port have to do with having a passport
and/or the "draft"? I have the impression that if a person left from a non
German port, they did not need a passport.
The info you quoted was for the period before 1868.
Since your ancestor came in 1883 at age older than 24 he may still have served
three years active duty that was the rule at that time. 20 was still
induction age, and after 3 years active duty they owed some reserve time and
time in the Landwehr up to 12 years total. However I am uncertain if that
impacted their ability to get a passport. I believe that once they served the
required time on active duty they could get a passport.
Passports were given by the Konscriptionsamt (draft board) because they were
really the only government agency interested in whether anyone who "owed"
military service wanted to leave the country. A person who was eligible for
the draft and had not yet gone thru the recruitment process might not be able
to get a passport until his draft status was settled. Anyone on active duty
could not get a passport until his term of active duty was completed. Before
1868 that was eight years. After 1868 it was three years. I am not very
expert on the period after 1868 and the rules for a passport and how draft age
affected them may not be as I expect based on the earlier period.
After 1868 there was so-called universal military obligation but as time
passed the number and types of exemptions increased. By 1883 it is possible
that your ancestor had some claim to exemption. Like being a youngest son.
> Since Bedrich left from Bremen Germany (as an Austrian citizen) then he
needed a passport.
That is what I have been led to believe.
>You mentioned that the LDS Church has microfilmed
Austrian passports. It is my understanding that all records for the port of
Bremen were destroyed by Allied bombing in WW II. Did passport records
survive for Austrian citizens at some other location?
The records that the LDS has fillmed are in the LDS CD film catalog that you
can view at your FHC . Take a floppy and copy what you find to it and review
it at home to save time. Austria, Konscriptionsamt, ( or Konskriptionsamt)
should get you there. Ask for title, author display and you should get the
years that each film record covers. Ask for full display on the years you
think most apt to apply. Then order the films shown that seem to have the
best possibility of including your ancestor's record.
If the records do not go to the right year then write the State Archive in
Vienna and ask if they can tell you where those records might be.
I believe that the State Archive is at the same address as the War Archive
but be sure to write Staatsarchiv on the envelope so it goes to the right
>> Based on his age of 24 years plus, is there anything that I might infer
about Bedrich's military status. Did he have a "lucky" number? I doubt if
he had paid someone to fill his position and he is not the youngest in his
family. Based on my best information, he was married by the time he left,
but had no children. From that information I've concluded that he probably
was married for less than a year before departing for the US. Also, he was
trained as a carpenter, so I doubt if he was exempt due to occupation.
I don't think his trade had much influence unless he was a Master Carpenter --
doubtful at his age. As I said above, at age 24 in 1883 he could very well
have completed three years required active duty.
The fact that he was already married by the time he left may be most important
detail. If you can get his date of marriage (in his obit??) that may tell you
if it affected his draft eligibility because married men were not eligible for
active duty/draft in general. There may have been a provision for them to
undergo some annual training as militia, but that probably did not impact
their ability to get a passport.
As I learn more about this I will try to post any new information I find.