Brenda, you stated this so well!
I've yet to see any real (in contrast to alleged) abuse by Ancestry.
They removed what had outraged many from USGenWeb -- so I'd like to give
them the benefit of the doubt. It could be their intent was to be helpful
to all researchers -- but it came out differently. But the important thing
is that they listened and made changes.
Considering all their dependability, their free mailing lists, free
USGenWeb pages, free personal Genealogy pages that they have provided over
the years, I feel their "plus" elements far outweigh the few times they
have appeared to encroach on our materials. I've never known them to "ask
us" for contributions so we can continue to have our pages on their server.
We in USGenWeb certainly have as our main goal to provide FREE research,
and that is what I plan to continue to do by working with all the
volunteers who submit information for our sites.
I want to keep my pages with Rootsweb/Ancestry.
At 08:09 PM 9/14/2007 -0400, you wrote:
I just wanted to step in (for what may be my only venture into this
discussion) and respond to some of Joe B's comments and ideas, as well
as bring up some of my own.
Rootsweb's initial mission was exactly the same as the USGenWeb
project- to keep internet genealogy free (and legal). This was prior
to their being bought out in 2000, so obviously the rules have changed
(and I'm sure MyFamily changed a lot of the wording once they got a
hold of things).
MyFamily.com has become a sort of a "Ma Bell" of the
online genealogy community, and so it does warrant a close look at
things to see if it might be time for us to cut our ties. If I'm not
mistaken, all or nearly all of the county/state sites were up and
active *before* the sellout/buyout of Rootsweb in 2000. Since they
have been passed down from coordinator to coordinator, it has just
been easier to refresh and maintain existing sites rather than remove
them entirely and set them up on other hosting services. But there are
some who have done this, so it's not impossible- but for the rest of
us it would be a large undertaking on a grand scale. If we did this,
would it be best to do it in phases? What problems might we encounter?
Should we all jump ship to one single provider (like Google), or might
it be better to scale down and offer a handful of possible providers
(preferably non-genealogy related)? Would there be any chance of the
same things occurring over again as far as user-submitted data and it
being exploited for someone else's monetary gain?
Wasn't there a similar issue with user-submitted family tree data and
Ancestry initially charging for that (and then changing their policies
to make it into a free-access family tree database)? Since the GenWeb
project is, after all, essentially 100% user-submitted data (and
design), do they have a right to create any kind of free access/search
engine results to provide access to that data for anyone using their
site? They probably do, and if that bothers us, we need to do
something about it.
If Rootsweb wants their logo on USGenWeb pages, it makes perfect sense
that Ancestry will follow too (notice the Ancestry logo side-by-side
with the Rootsweb logo at the top of Rootsweb pages already). Do we
want to open ourselves up to that possibility? I'm not a big fan of
that idea. Is Rootsweb expecting every free page they host
(non-USGenWeb related) to incorporate their logo in a masthead?
Probably not. Why? Maybe because *we* are such a huge force in online
genealogy (at least I believe we are) that they want a piece of us.
Something that should be looked at is Rootsweb's "Acceptable Use
Policy" which can be found here:
http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/aup.html
Here are some choice segments from the Ters and Conditions that made
me raise my eyebrows- wondering if it is really "safe" to continue
with their service:
"...Your use of the Service indicates that you are bound by this
agreement with us. If you don't agree with any of these terms and
conditions, don't use the Service. We may alter this agreement at our
discretion and your continued use after any change indicates your
acceptance of that change. If you don't want to be bound by a change,
discontinue use of the Service.
...Limited Use LICENSE
You are licensed to use the Content only for personal or professional
family history research, and may download Content only as search
results relevant to that research. The download of the whole or
significant portions of any work or database is prohibited. Resale of
a work or database or portion thereof, except as specific results
relevant to specific research for an individual, is prohibited. On
line or other republication of Content is prohibited except as unique
data elements that are part of a unique family history or genealogy.
Violation of this License may result in immediate termination of your
membership and may result in legal action for injunction, damages or
both. ... [Are they bound by this agreement as well??]
...User-Provided Content
Portions of the Service will contain user-provided content, to which
you may contribute appropriate content (the "Submitted Content") For
this Content, the submitter is the owner, and
RootsWeb.com is only a
distributor. By submitting Submitted Content to
RootsWeb.com, you
grant
MyFamily.com, Inc., the corporate host of the Service, a limited
license to the Submitted Content to use, host, and distribute that
Submitted Content and allow hosting and distribution on co-branded
Services of that Submitted Content. You should submit only content
which belongs to you and will not violate the property or other rights
of other people or organizations.
MyFamily.com, Inc. is sensitive to
copyright and other intellectual property rights of others. For more
information concerning copyright issues, view our corporate policy.
Content submitted for the purpose of commercial use, advertising or
fee for service is prohibited. ...
...Because some states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or
limitation of liability for consequential or incidental damages, this
limitation may not apply in part to you. IF YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH
ANY PORTION OF THIS WEB SERVICE, OR WITH ANY OF THESE TERMS OF USE,
YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY IS TO DISCONTINUE USING THIS WEB
SERVICE...."
I did not alter any of that- just copied and pasted it here. The note
in brackets is mine.
I currently have my own Google Pages that I use for family genealogy,
and have been using Google's Page Creator to put it together. I don't
know how that page creator will work for others- so just uploading the
pages as-is might be best. But I would have a concern about how to
establish all of the county/state/archives pages we would need to have
without working out an arrangement with Google. If the usernames and
passwords will be passed down to future coordinators, then a specific
agreement might need to be worked out in order to do that. I think
that might cut into a "misrepresentation/impersonation" conflict if
the registration info no longer applies to a new coordinator (how
could we create pages not tied to a person's name in any way?).
I apologize for the length of this, but wanted to sort out my thoughts
and see what others felt about all this. This is a potentially huge
shift for the Projects, but maybe it will turn out to be a worthwhile
undertaking. I come at this from the perspective of a long-time
USGenWeb user as well as an
Ancestry.com subscriber. USGenWeb is more
personal than Ancestry and will only increase in value as time goes on
(especially as the Census Project continues). I dream of the day when
I won't need to subscribe to
Ancestry.com, because all of the info
they charge for will finally end up on the web for free (at USGenWeb
and at other archival sources -like Universities- who don't/can't
charge for their data). As we grow stronger, Ancestry might grow
weaker, because if they can't legally monopolize documents and data
then it is only a matter of time before someone else (like a
volunteer) gets to it and provides access to the information for free.
Thank you for your time on this, and for everyone coming out to voice
their concerns and ideas.
Belinda Slocumb
Stewart and Webster CC, GAGenWeb
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