FYI --some Welsh tidbits of interest for the curious.
This came from another list, so I have given the full conversation as it
appears. You may wish to write the persons involved or join this list of
wonderful word trivia!
Best wishes,
E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mikey" <painter(a)onetel.net.uk>
To: <aulicino(a)teleport.com
Source: OLD-WORDS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Counting: Calculus.
Hi Rogan, Louis et al,
And thanks really very interesting. Lovely little pce.
My intuition suggested, as there are "20" words, so worked this out &
offer:
Decimal Counting derived from counting Stock originally for paying
tithes
and taxes, based on ten in a ryhthm of rhyming & rhythm of two's & fives.
A mnemonic counting method. Also made into a Song which at the end states
he
is passing this ancient counting method on by it, to his heir.
If we take the Welsh & Old Welsh, British for 5 which is Pump but
pronounced
Pimp that gives one correct clue what it could be, the other being
Dick,
ten, & probably from the Latin Decima, a tenth part, tithe, a tax paid by
landowners in the Roman Provinces.
So suggest: Yannadick is one times ten the Pebble that is transferred to a
pocket or a notch cut & then on through to jiggit or figgit the 10th
pebble
& or giving one notch = 100 or nick cut in a stick & or after
each series
of
10 pebbles [or possibly notches too which could be done as in the 5
barred
gate series four verticals and one across] giving the Tally: Later the
Tally Stick, from Tal, British, payment. Decimal counting with mnemonic
rhyme based on the rhythms, a verse.
Welsh.
Yan, 1. Un
tan, 2. Dau
tethera, 3. Tri, tair
pethera, 4. Pedwar (dd in Welsh & OW, British is pronounced th)
pimp, 5. Pump.
sethera, 6. Chwech
lethera, 7. Saith
hovera, 8 Wyth
dovera, 9 Naw
dick, 10. Deg
yanadick, 1 X 10 The first pebble transferred or notch cut.]
tanadick, 2nd X 10: 20
tetheradick, 3rd X 10: 30
petheradick, 4th X 10: 40
bumfit, 5th X 10: 50
yanabumfit, 6th X 10: 60
tanabumfit, 7 th X 10: 70
tetherabumfit, 8th X 10: 80
petherabumfit , 9th X 10: 90
jiggit. 10 X 10: 100. Tenth pebble/notch or first notch.
The latter half also giving you eleven to twenty.
I think I have that right!!:-))
Pebble oddly enough is my nickname (38yrs), the noun Pebble in Latin is
Calculus. Itself derived from the use of stones in counting, also
connected
with small pottery shards with names marked on when used in voting
&
election which were placed in a Jar in the Senate by the members in a
secret
ballot.
Regards,
Mikey.
Spectemur Agendo.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogan. A. Holt <emsys(a)mweb.co.zw>
To: Louis McMeeken <McMeeken(a)buxton32.freeserve.co.uk>;
<OLD-WORDS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 6:07 AM
Subject: {not a subscriber} Re: Counting
> Louis in answer. See the song below.
> " I count 'em up to figgits, and figgits have a notch," Seems
twentys
> were saved on a noched stick.
> There are a few other words in the song that I cant define.
>
>
>
> At 15:15 21/03/01 -0000, Louis McMeeken wrote:
> >Members of the list might be interested in these strange words which
were
> used by shepherds in the north of England for counting sheep:
> >1 to 20 go as follows -
> >Yan, tan, tethera, pethera, pimp, sethera, lethera, hovera, dovera,
dick,
> yanadick, tanadick, tetheradick, petheradick, bumfit,
yanabumfit,
> tanabumfit, tetherabumfit, petherabumfit , jiggit.
> >
> >They were told to me by a farmer from Cheshire, he doesn't know whether
> the counting goes beyond 20, but suggested that the counter would
perhaps
> have a handful of pebbles in his pocket and drop one into his
pocket for
> every twenty counted.
> >
> >
> >Regards
> >Louis
>
> The Lincolnshire Shepherd
>
> Yan, tan, tethera, tethera, pethera, pimp.
> Yon owd yowe's far-welted, and this yowe's got a limp
> Sethera, methera, hovera, and covera up to dik,
> Aye, we can deal wi' 'em all, and wheer's me crook and stick?
>
> I count 'em up to figgits, and figgits have a notch,
> There's more to being a shepherd than being on watch;
> There's swedes to chop and lambing time and snow upon the rick,
> Sethera, methera, hovera, and covera up to dik.
>
> Yan, tan, tethera, tethera, pethera, pimp &c..
>
> From Caistor down to Spilsby from Sleaford up to Brigg,
> There's Lincoln sheep all on the chalk, all hung wi' wool and big.
> And I, here in Langton wi' this same old flock.,
> Just as me grandad did afore they meddled with the clock.
>
> Yan, tan, tethera, tethera, pethera, pimp &c..
>
> We've bred our tups and gimmers for the wool and length and girth,
> And sheep have lambed, have gone away all o'er all the earth.
> They're bred in foreign flocks to give the wool its length and
crimp,
> Yan, tan, tethera, pethera, pimp.
>
> Yan, tan, tethera, tethera, pethera, pimp &c..
>
> They're like a lot of bairns, they are, like children of me own,
> They fondle round about owd Shep afore they're strong and grown;
> But they gets independent-like, before you know, they've gone,
> But yet again, next lambing time we'll 'a' more to carry on.
>
> Yan, tan, tethera, tethera, pethera, pimp &c..
>
> Yan, tan, tethera, tethera, pethera, pimp,
> Fifteen notches up to now and one yowe with a limp.
> You reckons I should go away, you know I'll never go,
> For lambing time's on top of us and it'll surely snow.
>
> Yan, tan, tethera, tethera, pethera, pimp &c..
>
> Well, one day I'll leave me yowes, I'll leave me yowes for good,
> And then you'll know what breeding is in flocks and human blood;
> For our Tom's come out o' t' army, his face as red as brick,
> Sethera, methera, hovera, and covera up to dik.
>
> Yan, tan, tethera, tethera, pethera, pimp &c..
>
> Now lambing time come reg'lar-like, just as it's always been,
> And shepherds have to winter 'em and tent 'em till they're weaned
> My fambly had it 'fore I came, they'll have it when I sleep,
> So we can count our lambing times as I am countin sheep
>
> Yan, tan, tethera, tethera, pethera, pimp &c..
>
> From Everyman's Book of English Country Songs, edited by Roy Palmer
> (London : Dent, 1979):
>
> Rogan. A. Holt
> Energy Management Systems
>