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Greetings,
Priscilla's booklet arrived a couple of days ago and I've started digesting
it. The pictures are wonderful and the lay-out is very easy to read.
Thank you, Priscilla!
Priscilla --could you send me the full citation ofr the Gwynedd book, you
reference? It sounds like one I should have! <G>
I do have a question. You have the marriage of Evan Griffith to Jane Jones
as 29 Mar 1707 at Gwynedd MM. (p. 6) and I show the dating in Quaker style of:
3m, 29d, 1707
I'm no expert, but wasn't the calendar still on March as being the first
month of the year? If so, then the date would be more like June, wouldn't
it? I was never sure due to the 11 day problem, so I've always left the
dates as I have found them until I have time to convert and double check
everything.
Thanks a bunch!
Emily
Hi Cousins,
Well, mine is the voice of ignorance (hopefully not to be mistaken for stupidity) as I must admit to not knowing either whom LORD RHYS is or how he's connected to us. I would, as always, love to be enlightened. Also, all I know of HYWEL DDA is where he's connected on the "tree" and limited encyclopedia-type information.
I know I need a quick study of Welsh history; I'm working on it. Thanks for the indulgence.
Beth.
Beth....and others...
Thanks for sharing some interesting details on our ancestor. Is it
possible, Beth, to get the source of the statements?? What book?
BTW, The Law of Wales was really folk law rather than state law and Hywell
Dda systematized it. This is why we see the types of laws that we do.
Folk law emphsais was upon "ensuring reconciliation between kinship groups
rather than upon keeping order through punishment." (A History of Wales by
John Davies, p. 88)
I would dearly love to find a book on these laws and/or his life, if they
exist. BTW, I did see one on Lord Rhys (also, our ancestor) on a Welsh
website.....one of those I previously sent. I've just not had time to fax
my order.
AND, I am serious about the trip to Wales. I'll be gathering cost info,
etc. If anyone is interested, drop me a line, privately....even if only
curious.
Best wishes,
Emily
Speak up if you don't know how either Lord Rhys or Hywel Dda connect to us.
This is a posting from the POWYS List & an interesting bit about an ancestor:
Dear Ann,
While I am getting my head around your query I noticed your reference to the women in Wales having some standing here. I have enclosed below a small snippet which I think some of you 'lady members' will enjoy reading:
The old Welsh laws were remarkable for their emancipated attitude to women. A wife was protected from arbitrary divorce, and had herself full right of petitioning against her husband. The laws were first set down on paper in the 10th century during the reign of HYWEL DDA, Hywel the Good. Until then the laws had been unwritten for the Welsh always stored the most intricate information in their minds.
The laws of Hywel laid down minutely how property should be divided when a couple separated. Separation could legally take place by mutual consent at any time up to seven years less three days, when a woman could remove with her the dowry she had brought her husband, her personal possessions , and her 'cowyll', which was the gift given to her by her husband after the consummation of marriage.
However, if the couple bedded together only once after the seven years were three nights short, and there was separation by common consent, then their belongings were divided. In general the law gave the man the implements of husbandry and the woman the household goods. Children were shared alternately between father and mother, the man taking the eldest.
A woman could extract a fine from her husband for his adultery, although the wife could forfeit all if she herself was accused of a similar mis-step. She could win a divorce from her husband if he had leprosy, bad breath, or impotence and having won a divorce could impose a fine on her husband for each act of adultery.
Jane R
VRaw366783(a)aol.com
List Members ,
In regard to Cynthia's message tonight, I went back to the Welcome Message
for this list to be certain I hadn't forgotten what I wrote. It is, in
part, quoted here:
Welcome to the FRONGOCH-WALES mailing list, a mailing list for
anyone who descends from the residents of Frongoch farm
in Northern Wales. This farm traces its history back to
the 14th Century, to a time before the village of the same name
even existed. It is the ancestral home of President Abraham
Lincoln through his maternal grandfather's mother Sarah Evans.
Surnames currently used may be varied due to the Welsh naming
system; therefore, documentation that one's family actually
lived on this farm is needed. Persons related to the
descendants of Evan ab Evans (son of Evan ap Robert ap Lewis
of Northern Wales) are a major focus of this list, but not
inclusive of those once residing at Frongoch farm.
As we have had a couple of people subscribing to the list thinking that we
were researching a specific name, rather than discussing a family from a
specific place, I do wish to save everyone trouble and embarrassment by
making the message clear. I welcome your input to make this portion of the
Welcome message be more clear that I obviously thought it was regarding our
list's focus.
This is list is for descendants who had ancestors living at the Fron Goch
Farm in Northern Wales. Maybe there is more than one, if so, I should
probably mention it is the farm from which the current town of Frongoch
took its name and which is located 3 miles from Bala. What do you think?
I thought I was saying that Evan ab Evan, son of Evan ap Robert ap Lewis,
lived here and there may be others. I guess I thought this would be clear
that we are, at least, but not only discussing the family of this guy, but
of anyone who actually lived at the farm at one time.
Cynthia and others....I do try to let people know to post to the list and
that there is no need to wait and see what we are saying. We are all
anxious to see to whom one relates as the Welcome Message says the list is
for people who DO relate to the farm. It is not meant to SCREEN people.
We aren't a forum for finding anyone's Welsh ancestors even if they do have
the same name. We know whom our ancestors are and are discussing our
connections with each other and info about the farm as well as what we know
of the Welsh culture. There's many Websites that can help one with
researching Welsh lines and culture that can help researchers.
I posted to the list so others could email you privately if they could help.
Cynthia, you wrote:
>I don't believe it was Rootsweb's intention to support anyone's private
list ...
But Rootsweb DOES support private lists! --I run one of a different surname.
AND, this isn't a private list or there wouldn't be public archives. This
is a list that focuses on a location --not a surname. The list is a
"mailing list, a mailing list for anyone who descends from the residents of
Frongoch farm in Northern Wales."
Cynthia, I'm sorry you were offended. I offered suggestions, help, and
ltried to let you know that unless you could connect to the farm, this list
may be a waste of your time. I'm sorry you didn't see my statements and
suggestions, such as:
"So sorry, but we aren't a surname list. Please let me know if my
statements in the Welcome message and the ones you found on the sites that
told you about us aren't clear. I hate to see people disappointed.
"If you have clues as from where your Welsh ancestors came (what shire
--county), you really need to join that group. BUT, if you find that your
lines do come from Frongoch, PLEASE come back to us. We'd love to work
with you on a common goal."
I'm not taking you off the list or banning you from it. You are still on
and can do what you will regarding that. I am suggesting that there isn't
much help for you here and that your time may be better spent trying to
locate the area from which your Roberts came. Regarding your Lincoln. He
was briefly discussed as he is related to our lines, but he's related to
thousands of people. Yes, his ancestors once lived at Frongoch, but we
don't know if that is the same ancestor as yours. His father or another of
his mother's ancestorscould be you ancestor as far as people on the list
know and not Sarah ab Evans.
I have been asking everyone to post their direct lineage to the Frongoch
farm as I am making a chart that shows our relationship. So far, everyone
has been kind enough to do that. You may want to check the archives, but I
don't recall any Roberts.
Let's get back to business, shall we?
Emily
listowner
Emily, at your private request new subscribers to this list are asked to
submit the lines they are actively searching. The request appears
friendly enough, not at all indicating it is a method for screening people.
Should they comply however in the same chatty fashion, rather than just
read the messages for a while as most of us would do to see if the list
fills our needs, they are met with your rather stern admonitions and your
certainty that they have no connection, when they are not so certain and to
my knowledge you have no cyrstal ball nor access to their complete gedcom.
I was surprised to find my Lincoln ancestry being discussed here when I
first arrived and said so and still received the type of send off you are
giving Ginger. I question why that type of thing is even done for all the
list to read rather than privately.
I am a listowner of Clayton_Cousins on Onelist.com, which is a "By
Invitation Only List" to which I invited those researchers from various
genealogy & rootsweb.com lists who had posted queries or branches of my
particular Clayton family of Culpeper Virginia. I don't believe it was
Rootsweb's intention to support anyone's private list and I for one was
unpleasantly surprised by my reception here, as I imagine Ginger is as well.
More work perhaps but kinder would be to seek out researchers working on
your own line rather than monitoring a public list, or this list may well
be silent except for lentghy unwelcoming letters.
Cynthia Claytonroberts, dismayed in Wales Wisconsin
>From: Emily Aulicino <aulicino(a)teleport.com>
>To: FRONGOCH-WALES-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Ginger,
<snip>
>Once you find your connection to Frongoch (if there is one), do come back
>to us. Your line could easily be from ANY part of Wales. Frongoch is a
>VERY tiny town, so I doubt you connect to anyone here.
>
>Sorry.
>Emily
>listowner
>
Ginger,
This email list is for researchers who already have a connection to the
Frongoch farm.
Welsh research is complicated and there is NOT one person or family that
began the Evans surname or any other for that matter ---in any culture. In
the Welsh system of naming, people took their father's surname for a time.
More often a person named Evan who was a son of Griffith could have sons:
Evan, Robert, Owen, for example. Evan could be Evan ab Evan or Evan Bevan
or Evan Evans, or even Evan Griffith or Evan ap Griffith, etc. His brother
could be Robert Griffith, Robert ap Griffith, Robert Evans, Robert ab Evan,
or Robert Bevans. Owen, their brother, could be Owen Griffith, Owen ab
Griffith, Owen Evans, Owen ap Evans, or Owen Bevans.
Let's just take one of these names for the next generation: Owen ab Evans.
This Owen could have sons: Evan, Robert, Owen, Cadwaldr, etc. They could
use any combination of surnames:
Owen, Owens, Evans, Bevans.
It all depends on when the particular family started using surnames and
which they decided to us. For the family members of this group, it was as
late as 1689. Most of England started using surnames in the 1200s for
important people, but didn't take 400 years to do it for the commoners
--expect the Welsh (or so it seems)
SO, each generation's surname would change and sometimes each brother or
sister chose a different one. THEN, when the family decided to stick with
ONE surname it was later and who knows what that was.
The only way one can know if you are related is to find the old pedigrees,
really.
Do see these sites to learn about Welsh research and visit your LDS FHC,
library, genealogical society or other genealogical books to learn about
Welsh research. Without that info, you can't find any connection to the
early Welsh.
http://britannia.com/wales/whist.htmlhttp://www.nwi.co.uk/famhist/fhinfo.htm
Once you find your connection to Frongoch (if there is one), do come back
to us. Your line could easily be from ANY part of Wales. Frongoch is a
VERY tiny town, so I doubt you connect to anyone here.
Sorry.
Emily
listowner
Greetings Cousins.
Eveyrone seems silent today. I do hope that means you are hard at work in
the libraries, etc. or, at least, out enjoying the weather. Hopefully, you
weren't in the path of Floyd.
I wanted to pass along to you the following website and urge you to read
it. It is VERY important. I may be preaching to the choir, but if there
are any new researchers out there (within the last 5-10 years, at least),
it is very important that you visit this site. For anyone who has not
stepped into a courthouse to research, etc. THIS is for YOU!
Please time time to digest its message, so quality research doesn't die.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaaugust/cook.htm
Many thanks for taking the time.....it is worth your time to follow the
advice (Voice of experience here! <G>)
Cousin Emily
Hi all,
I retired after 38 years in the computer industry so can shed some light on
those mysterious symbols. The   is HTML for a blank or space. HTML is
HyperText Markup Language which is the language that ALL web pages were in
before JAVA. Even JAVA is a version of HTML and still most content is in HTML.
So if a portion of text is cut from an HTML document then pasted and sent as
plain text, the   goes through unchanged. There is no clear cut solution
since some people may not be able to read HTML in e-mail. However Netscape
allows you the choice of sending in both HTML and plain text.
Hope this helps some. If not clear e-mail me and I'll try to be more detailed.
Ken
Emily Aulicino wrote:
> Greetings Cousins!
>
> I'm very excited to see that several of you are interested in a trip to
> Wales this summer. If we make plans to go at the same time, or overlapping
> times, we'll even have to call it a "Reunion!"
>
> I plan to do mostly research in Wales (at the parish records site and maybe
> at the Maritime Records location in Liverpool, Eng.) and to see some of the
> sites and towns that pertain to our ancestors. Most of the towns in
> Northern Wales are small. They aren't the tourist attractions of London,
> etc. In July there is a huge festival in Llangollen (means Church of
> Collen) about 26 miles from Frongoch right on the highway A5. Llangollen
> is the biggest tourist town in the area. (Bala is smaller and draws more
> people who like to hike, climb, canoe, etc. in the outdoors) There are
> little shops there....I think I have been into most of them. In Bala, I
> KNOW I have been in all of those shops! <G> They are pottery and/or
> tourist shops for the most part.
>
> However, there is many castles and other sites to see. It all depends on
> your purpose. Mine is solely for research and seeing the land and cities
> of my ancestors....no matter how tiny.
>
> If you wish to visit more of Wales, I can give you tons of ideas. St.
> David's was the site of our cousin Gerald of Windor's domain. (He was a
> head of the church for a time.) The northern shore of Wales has some very
> pretty spots. Portmerion is the site where the British series called "The
> Prisoner" was made if you ever saw it (ca 1970s). Patrick MacGooen (sp.?)
> was the star. Harlich Caslte, golfing, etc......
>
> Do a "Wales" search on the Net to see what interests you.
>
> If any of you are serious, think about how long you wish to be there and
> the time period. I can't go before Jul 5 and need to be back late Aug.
> Due to the NORMALLY cool weather, the later the better. We were there at
> the end of July and it was beautiful. However, everywhere we went, people
> were saying it was the best weather they had all year....and in Ireland the
> first time they saw the sun in two years!
>
> Priscilla, I understand your concern about driving. I did some while there
> and it takes some getting used to. However, until you have driven in the
> towns of Italy (even if it is the right side of the road), you can't
> imagine what narrow roads, fast cars and congestion are! <G> I've seen and
> been in intersections there that look like they were straight from a
> Keystone Cop movie! (If you are under fifty, just ignore that --I'm not
> explaining who they were! <G>)
>
> Regarding the letters and symbols after what I sent....hopefully that
> doesn't appear with every one of my messages. Unfortunately, to save time,
> I cut and paste from Family Tree Maker and those symbols and letters have
> to do with the formating (non-seen carriage returns, etc.). It doesn't
> have to do with the data. I'm sorry you have to deal with these --I've
> just not had the time to retype what I share. If there are any computer
> gurus out there who can advice, I'm listening.....
>
> Later,
> Cuz Emily
Greetings Cousins!
I'm very excited to see that several of you are interested in a trip to
Wales this summer. If we make plans to go at the same time, or overlapping
times, we'll even have to call it a "Reunion!"
I plan to do mostly research in Wales (at the parish records site and maybe
at the Maritime Records location in Liverpool, Eng.) and to see some of the
sites and towns that pertain to our ancestors. Most of the towns in
Northern Wales are small. They aren't the tourist attractions of London,
etc. In July there is a huge festival in Llangollen (means Church of
Collen) about 26 miles from Frongoch right on the highway A5. Llangollen
is the biggest tourist town in the area. (Bala is smaller and draws more
people who like to hike, climb, canoe, etc. in the outdoors) There are
little shops there....I think I have been into most of them. In Bala, I
KNOW I have been in all of those shops! <G> They are pottery and/or
tourist shops for the most part.
However, there is many castles and other sites to see. It all depends on
your purpose. Mine is solely for research and seeing the land and cities
of my ancestors....no matter how tiny.
If you wish to visit more of Wales, I can give you tons of ideas. St.
David's was the site of our cousin Gerald of Windor's domain. (He was a
head of the church for a time.) The northern shore of Wales has some very
pretty spots. Portmerion is the site where the British series called "The
Prisoner" was made if you ever saw it (ca 1970s). Patrick MacGooen (sp.?)
was the star. Harlich Caslte, golfing, etc......
Do a "Wales" search on the Net to see what interests you.
If any of you are serious, think about how long you wish to be there and
the time period. I can't go before Jul 5 and need to be back late Aug.
Due to the NORMALLY cool weather, the later the better. We were there at
the end of July and it was beautiful. However, everywhere we went, people
were saying it was the best weather they had all year....and in Ireland the
first time they saw the sun in two years!
Priscilla, I understand your concern about driving. I did some while there
and it takes some getting used to. However, until you have driven in the
towns of Italy (even if it is the right side of the road), you can't
imagine what narrow roads, fast cars and congestion are! <G> I've seen and
been in intersections there that look like they were straight from a
Keystone Cop movie! (If you are under fifty, just ignore that --I'm not
explaining who they were! <G>)
Regarding the letters and symbols after what I sent....hopefully that
doesn't appear with every one of my messages. Unfortunately, to save time,
I cut and paste from Family Tree Maker and those symbols and letters have
to do with the formating (non-seen carriage returns, etc.). It doesn't
have to do with the data. I'm sorry you have to deal with these --I've
just not had the time to retype what I share. If there are any computer
gurus out there who can advice, I'm listening.....
Later,
Cuz Emily
Dear Cousins,
I will start this message with the entry of my husband's lineage from
Evan Robert Lewis. The line is the same as mine and Susan's up through Evan
Griffith who married Maria Gregory. Our line comes from his youngest son
Edwin Herbert, my husband's through his oldest son James Shores - Charles
Henry,Sr. - Charles Henry, Jr - George Hull Griffith, my husband. His great
grandfather came west, married in Joliet, IL, moved back to NJ when his wife
died and his son moved back to Chicago inth 1890's.
As to your info on Evan Robert Lewis - thanks for the name of Alice's
husband - my marriage date matches.
John - thanks again as I did not have his wife's name. It is from him we
are descended, so I have his children's info.
Cadwalder - My only info was that the source didn't know which wife he
came from and I appreciate the dates and wife's name.
Owen - all I have is a son and daughter-in-laws name - Robert and Jane
Owen who came to Merion in 1690.
Griffith - had no info.
Evan - from him the Evans descend.
Robert - he is a surprise, as I didn't have any reference to him.
I need to ask why Emily's letters are full of  ? Most often at end of
sentences - sometimes a whole line. I am new at this so am wondering.
I might be interested in a trip back. I cannot dirve those British cars or
on the wrong side on the road. My son did all the driving when we were there
and I remember with horror the time we had getting out of Heathrow and some
of our meetings with tour buses on narrow roads. But the trip was fabulous
and I knew so little of what to do and see in Wales.
My sources are the same except for "Historical Collections Relating to
Gwynedd" by Howard M. Jenkins. Published by the author, 1897. My mother
took notes from "Griffith Family, Quakers of Gwynedd" and "Welsh Founders of
Pennsylvania" which I also would like to see.
Priscilla Griffith
Susan and others,
I can only tell you what I wrote as I found that much of a reference the
the Welsh Founders book by Glenn. (I dearly want a copy of that book --out
of print or not, if anyone knows where there is one to purchase, etc.)
I need to find time (HA!) to see if any Heraldic Visitations of Wales are
in the LDS films. Sometimes they mircorfilm old books, etc. and this could
have been put into one. My understanding is that it has the pedigree of
our Welsh lines in Frongoch.....and I'm sure many more.
No doubt there is a copy either at the Newberry, Ft. Wayne or Salt Lake, if
any of you can get there. See if you can photocopy the pertinent pages.
My understanding is that the "visitations" are basically their form of
early census. In my recent past life (before returning to work!), I recall
seeing a book of some year of British visitation --I think at the Univ. of
Oregon library (I lived in Eugene, OR before Portland) and may have to get
down there over a long weekend. At that time I was able to talk my way
into the second called the "dungeon" where old books are kept and few
people go. Hopefully, I can do that again.
Let the group know if any of you find it. If it is and LDS film post the
ordering number as a few of us may wish to see it.
Everyone, do post any sources you find that can focus on the families of
Frongoch. I'd love to see more of you jump in with any info you may have
on those families, including biographical info, tidbits, clues, facts,
documents, etc.
Thanks to all who are being supportive. Keep the membership rising, but
PLEASE let people know that they must have a Frongoch connection. A
surname connection doesn't mean we are related, as most of you know. We
aren't searching surnames and so far we have had at least two people join
who may have hopeed so. Please check your Welcome message and the locales
where you found mention of this list to see if I need to clarify that more.
I am just sad to see people disappointed, thinking they have found a
helpful list, when we can't be. Welsh research is hard at times and one
can't follow a surname....or make ANY assumptions that they are related.
Sorry to be on a soap box tonight, but I'd rather have a bunch of happy
campers than members whom we disappoint.
Best wishes and thanks for all your hard work.
Do as questions, I'll answer when I can and maybe others can jump in. AND
if you see me making typos, etc. post it on the list --I'm human. (Beth
tells me I had one for Evan ap Robert ap Lewis.....as all of you know, he
didn't die before he was born. He was b. in the 1500s, not th4e 1700s! <G>
Thanks, Beth.)
Emily
Cynthia,
It is nice to hear from you; however, I don't see your connection to
Frongoch??? This list is for people who can connect to it. We are working
in the 1700 and 1600s. Although someone from the farm may have come to
Amer in 1800s or late 1700s, I've never seen/heard of that, as yet. Has
anyone???
The list can't help you research your line back to the Welsh Tract of PA
where many of the people from Frongoch settled. If you do find your family
in the PA Welsh Tracts, you MAY find they were Frongoch, although many came
from other places.
If you know about Welsh naming systems, you know that most of our Welsh
ancestors didn't use surnames until the late 1600s when they arrived in
America. All the ones I know from Frongoch waited until they came to Amer
to use them. Anyone else have other information?
No one one the list can tell if your lines would even go back to the same
people we have or be a Roberts when they get there. I'm sorry that you
probably won't find any info that could help you get back to the farm which
is needed for this list.
There are some good soures on Welsh genealogy that may help you. You can
check some of the sources I listed, but although they contain Roberts, they
aren't necessarily yours....and Roberts doesn't beget Roberts in Wales.
Perhaps others on the list can privately advice you on getting your lines
connected to the farm.
So sorry, but we aren't a surname list. Please let me know if my
statements in the Welcome message and the ones you found on the sites that
told you about us aren't clear. I hate to see people disappointed.
If you have clues as from where your Welsh ancestors came (what shire
--county), you really need to join that goup. BUT, if you find that your
lines do come from Frongoch, PLEASE come back to us. We'd love to work
with you on a common goal.
PS: I'm posting this to the list, so others who may know of your lines,
could help you privately.
Best wishes,
Emily
Listowner
At 10:41 AM 9/14/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear Emily & Frongoch Members,
>
>When I joined the list a week or so ago I had little idea where my former
>husband's ROBERTS came from. I have been on the POWRYS list for about six
>weeks and it had such generally informative posts and links to sites with
>more Welsh and English delights, not to mention my Scots, that I'm
>beginning to get a sense of country. So I joined yours as well just in
>time to read of the connection to our LINCOLN! One of my great Aunts
>Nettie CLAYTON of Illinois/Wisconsin married a Lincoln although I've not
>yet followed up the trail.
>
>I'm fairly certain my Roberts are all from Anglesey/Caergybi, Wales,
>perhaps Beaumaris. Am not certain of the maternal lines of HUGHES and
>ROWLANDS, JAMES, DAVIS/DAVIES, DAWES, EVANS, JONES, POETSCH & WILLIAMS. A
>few were English.
>
>While I'm back here in the Welsh settlement of Wales, Wisconsin, helping
>with the family business, I thought I would begin to find out and so I
>have begun. The family claims a connection to BULKELEYs although I haven't
>yet stumbled across it. Essentially, I have just now gotten my toes wet at
>the edge of the Big Pond.
>
>The 1846 adventurers to America were David & Margaret (HUGHES) ROBERTS.
>According to "The Welsh Community of Waukesha County", they were last
>living at Caergybi, Wales GB. They were married in 1828 and had two
>children who died in Wales. Their Welsh born living children were 1832 John
>H; 1833 Jane; 1838 Robert; 1843 Phebe; 1845 William. Born to them in
>Wisconsin were 1847 Margaret and 1849 Evan. The children's birthdates are
>calculated from the 1850 US Federal Census so may be a wee bit off. Here,
>David was known as David Roberts "Bryngoleu" since the family settled
>first on a farm in the Township of Ottawa.
>They were members of Bethania Church.
>
>My former husband and daughter are descended from son, John H. 1832-1902,
>"Sceion" who married Margaret ROWLANDS 1828-1910 and settled in the Zion
>parish of the Town of Delafield, Waukesha County, Wisconsin. Margaret was
>the daughter of Richard ROWLANDS whose family came to the Waukesha County
>Wisconsin Township of Genesee from Anglesey in 1859. His children were
>Thomas, Margaret, Dorothy (who married John Jones of Genesee), John who
>married Sarah Jones of New York City, Harry who lived in Genesee, and a
>grandson Thomas ROWLANDS. I believe Richard's wife had died in Anglesey.
>
>John H. & Margaret's son David J. 1866-1942 married 2nd - Kate DAVIS
>1876-1908 of Dodgeville, Wisconsin. David J. and Kate's son, Gwilym David
>ROBERTS 1908-1976, is the father of my former husband Donald Everett 1939-
>and Grandfather of my daughter Gwendolyn Roberts born 15 December 1972.
>
>Cynthia Claytonroberts
>PO Box 85
>W315 S2590 Cregennan Bae
>Wales, Wisconsin USA 53183
>
>
>At 10:20 PM 9/13/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>Welcome Cynthia!!
>>
>>When you receive the official Welcome message, please post to the list
>>sending your lineage back to the person living at Frongoch.
>
Emily and Everyone,
Were you, Emily, by any chance refering to the book, "Heraldic
Visitation to Wales and Some of the Marches?" If so, I have seen this book at
the Newberry Library in Chicago. I took a few notes but would have to check
when I go there again for exactly what you are looking. Or, is there a
different book on heralds' visitations to North Wales? I hadn't heard of it
if there is. I've just begun my genealogy library, but I do own "The Griffith
Descendants of Evan Robert Lewis" by Priscilla Hopping Griffith (a member of
our list), and "Merion In The Welsh Tract" by Thomas Allen Glenn. I also own
the Hopping family genealogy book by Priscilla's father (my
great-grandfather), Edward Stuart Hopping, for any of you who have lines
which tie in with the Hoppings, Diaments, Genungs, etc.
Susan
Dear Emily & Frongoch Members,
When I joined the list a week or so ago I had little idea where my former
husband's ROBERTS came from. I have been on the POWRYS list for about six
weeks and it had such generally informative posts and links to sites with
more Welsh and English delights, not to mention my Scots, that I'm
beginning to get a sense of country. So I joined yours as well just in
time to read of the connection to our LINCOLN! One of my great Aunts
Nettie CLAYTON of Illinois/Wisconsin married a Lincoln although I've not
yet followed up the trail.
I'm fairly certain my Roberts are all from Anglesey/Caergybi, Wales,
perhaps Beaumaris. Am not certain of the maternal lines of HUGHES and
ROWLANDS, JAMES, DAVIS/DAVIES, DAWES, EVANS, JONES, POETSCH & WILLIAMS. A
few were English.
While I'm back here in the Welsh settlement of Wales, Wisconsin, helping
with the family business, I thought I would begin to find out and so I
have begun. The family claims a connection to BULKELEYs although I haven't
yet stumbled across it. Essentially, I have just now gotten my toes wet at
the edge of the Big Pond.
The 1846 adventurers to America were David & Margaret (HUGHES) ROBERTS.
According to "The Welsh Community of Waukesha County", they were last
living at Caergybi, Wales GB. They were married in 1828 and had two
children who died in Wales. Their Welsh born living children were 1832 John
H; 1833 Jane; 1838 Robert; 1843 Phebe; 1845 William. Born to them in
Wisconsin were 1847 Margaret and 1849 Evan. The children's birthdates are
calculated from the 1850 US Federal Census so may be a wee bit off. Here,
David was known as David Roberts "Bryngoleu" since the family settled
first on a farm in the Township of Ottawa.
They were members of Bethania Church.
My former husband and daughter are descended from son, John H. 1832-1902,
"Sceion" who married Margaret ROWLANDS 1828-1910 and settled in the Zion
parish of the Town of Delafield, Waukesha County, Wisconsin. Margaret was
the daughter of Richard ROWLANDS whose family came to the Waukesha County
Wisconsin Township of Genesee from Anglesey in 1859. His children were
Thomas, Margaret, Dorothy (who married John Jones of Genesee), John who
married Sarah Jones of New York City, Harry who lived in Genesee, and a
grandson Thomas ROWLANDS. I believe Richard's wife had died in Anglesey.
John H. & Margaret's son David J. 1866-1942 married 2nd - Kate DAVIS
1876-1908 of Dodgeville, Wisconsin. David J. and Kate's son, Gwilym David
ROBERTS 1908-1976, is the father of my former husband Donald Everett 1939-
and Grandfather of my daughter Gwendolyn Roberts born 15 December 1972.
Cynthia Claytonroberts
PO Box 85
W315 S2590 Cregennan Bae
Wales, Wisconsin USA 53183
At 10:20 PM 9/13/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Welcome Cynthia!!
>
>When you receive the official Welcome message, please post to the list
>sending your lineage back to the person living at Frongoch.
Hi Cousins,
I'm catching up with the rest of my life right now, but followed something from the CLWYD List to get to IGI (LDS):
http://familysearch.org then Browse, then Vital Records, to IGI
I'll list my brief searches & am wondering if anyone has access to these films:
Thomas Evan, b. 1651, Frongoch, Merionethshire
* Film #2034641
* Film #170662
Page #138
Ref #3054
Sarah ap Evan, b. ca 1665, Llanfor, Ucheldre, Merionethshire, Father Evan Evan
* Film #456970
Sarah ap Evan, b. ca 1649, Llandderfel, Merionethshire, Father Evan Evan
* Film #1903943
* Batch #F847291
Sheet 11
Sorry to be short on time right now - I hope to catch up soon. Beth.