Hi All, further to the information from Chris.
I have already been contacted by Mr Eric Booker
Here is the thread of our emails so far:
My thoughts are at the bottom of this post.
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Booker
To: John Gardiner
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Fermanagh church records transcriptions
As quick response to the first part of your email:-
Thank you for your kind support - despite the difficulties, I am sure that
we can work out a solution between ourselves.
Before I contacted yourself, I first contacted the gip site ( Christina
Hunt) who advised me that I only needed your consent as the Copyright
owner, - the IGP has no part in it. OR else you can email me the files
instead then that leaves the IGP out of the loop? I can copy you her email
if you need to see first hand?
And the point about irish place naming has caused me mnay problems already,
as we have set our stall out to use Place names for the rest of the UK.
I suggest I put a small part of one of your files onto out test site - where
itss not searchable by the general public - and you can do a few trial
searches and see where you get to. WE could then consider what - if
anything - we need to review or revise.
AS an aside, I have just got the agreement from Vynette Sage to use her
transcriptions and I am working on that now.
I will respond to the second part of your mail at length, tomorrow if I may.
On 17 Aug 2017, at 20:43, John Gardiner <johng.home(a)blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
I know of the FreeReg UK work and I fully support your efforts.
Not sure how your searches would work, not identifying the Place or Church
as these can be a vital clue to identify the correct person being searched
for. As can the Religion.
I will contact IGP and see what their position is. What I do know from
experience is that finding Irish records has been a huge uphill struggle due
to the Dublin Courts fire and the loss of huge amounts of Church records.
Just putting names into a search engine often gives many results, and not
being able to see the full document transcription will hinder rather than
help. Often being able to see other reconisable names & places on the
transcription document gives the answer.
Understanding the regional County, Diocese. PLU, Civil Parish, Religious
Parish, Barony, Manor, Townland and Registration Boundries is a great help.
The Registration boundries often cover more than one County, Parish or
Registration area so it's quite a mess. I do know that you have added
similar information to the FreeBMD site by listing placenames within the set
boundries attached to the record viewed.
I do get it that you want to add Irish to the http://freegeneology.org.uk/
Group, but in my honest opinion, the presentation format of IGP and
Fermanagh Gold work the best. I should also point out there is a support
Group page that members of both groups share their knowledge. IGP &
Fermanagh Gold work in my opinion, because it is not just a search engine
facility, it is a small knowledge sharing community.
IGP has grown from nothing, where very little Irish BMD information was
available, unless you travelled to repository's like the National Library of
Ireland or the Public Record office of Northern Ireland, or round the
individual Church's in your area fo search.
Also the recently https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
Website that will
eventualy have most of the records from 1864 (including scans), pretty much
covers the later period of time.
I would add that after using your site the level of transcription is very
good. After using Ancestry records for the old Parish registers and finding
their transcriptions (especially the Secretary Hand written ones) so poor. I
wonder if you would think about adding the Old Parish Records for England
and Wales to your site. Scotlands People seems to have the scottish ones
In Conclusion: After all the work our Community has given freely, to help
others, I'm afraid I must pin my loyalty to IGP and I gave them the full
gardianship and management of my work, so you will need to speak to IGP.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Booker"
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 7:06 PM
Subject: re: Fermanagh church records transcriptions
Hello, Mr Gardiner.
May I first introduce myself: Eric Booker, Data Manager for FreeReg UK.
I have come across your extensive collection of Church Record
transcription files, contributed to the Fermanagh website, and wondered if I
could interest you in letting me add these Transcriptions to our site:
We have over 39 million records to date and receive some 13,000 searches a
day at present so your data would add to our appeal and get your efforts
appreciated by a wider audience.
Up to now, we have covered the 3 regions: England, Wales and Scotland. But
are expanding right now to include the Counties of Northern Ireland. I would
do all the necessary adapting of your Transcriptions into our format so they
fit into our database and search engine, so there would be nothing for you
to do (except give me your consent of course).
Our database works as a Free Search engine, on a database of Parish
Register Transcriptions, returning single records. We do not present whole
files of places, nor of Churches so as to minimise misuse. But more
important, we will not sell files onward if you dont want us to.
I do hope that you are content with my request, and look forward to making
positive progress to get your data viewed far and wide. If you need further
information, please just ask.
I have not yet decided what to respond. But I think this may be the thin
end of the wedge that has all our hard work moved to another site. That may
in the future, become just another site linked to the Pay Sites.
What IGP and Fermanagh Gold have achived is special, with an awful lot of
input and work over the years. Just to be farmed out to a Search engine
facility, good though it may be for UK only files.
But Irish research in my mind is, due to the various dificulties, a whole
different ball game compared to the rest of UK.
A single line search engine displaying information out of context, without
the ability to view the whole document content, is a waste of time. Even the
Pay sites know this, and display scans of the availabe document scans where
I suspect FreeReg and others of the same group would have to charge if
they had the huge storage and bandwidth issues associated with large file
They at least would be worried, as I am now that someone would just
download and re-transcribe their work. I am at a loss for a response and
will wait for some Community feedback.
Sorry it's a long post, but I dont want to decide without some feedback.