This is the RCAHMW link to Nant-hen-foel-fawr - using the recent helpful
Has decent map ref and the parish name (Llanfihangel Ystrad) ie Felinfach !
On 1 June 2017 at 20:23, <rob(a)robweeks.plus.com> wrote:
Many thanks Jen for a very speedy reply. Sorry to ask so many
once but I thought it better if I painted the whole picture as we see it
rather than ask in dribs and drabs. You have answered one of the crucial
questions which puts this particular John Jones in the right place. Yes ,
of course David Jones was High Sherriff – must stop doing things from the
top of my head!
I will check your grid ref to see which parish Nant-hen Foel was in .
We suspected a link with the Methodist fraternity as JJ Coedmawr’s will
was witnessed by Nathaniel Rowlands, Parke who we believe was the son of
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*From: *Jen Cairns - Jen Mathias <jenmathias(a)gmail.com>
*Sent: *01 June 2017 19:31
*Cc: *Dyfed List <dyfed(a)rootsweb.com>
*Subject: *Re: [Dyfed] David Jones , Derry Ormond and Nantyrhenfoel
Hi Rob, you ask so many questions...! Here are a couple of answers...
David Jones, of Derry Ormond who died 1775, was High Sheriff, NOT Lord
There are a couple of Nant-hen foels (fach and fawr) mentioned in Iwan
Wmffree's Cardiganshire Place Names. Ystrad (called Felin Fach/Felinfach
these days), Creuddyn Bridge area Map Refs are.... SN 547- 518 and SN
545-517 . I haven't checked a map, but this is close to Silian, and not
that far from Derry Ormond. Nant-Hen Foel Fawr seems to go back to the
13th century, and Crosswood MSS are mentioned frequently which might be
helpful for you.
Family trees... I have a couple which show Theophilus (who lived in
Blaenplwyf, close to Derry Ormond) and David Jones. They were both
instrumental in setting up a local link with David Rowlands and the
Methodist cause. Not much help to you I suspect... however a couple of days
ago I was shown a family tree which has David Jones in it, so will try to
have another look at it... but wont be necessarily this week... my computer
is having a major sulk, and looking through my backups is a major trauma.
However, I have a great interest in both Theophilus and David Jones (would
like to find parents for instance...), and I live about half a mile from
On 1 June 2017 at 18:42, <rob(a)robweeks.plus.com> wrote:
Rhodri’s figures on the population of Cardiganshire were very interesting.
We may debate the actual figures but the important points to me were that
there were not many people in Cardiganshire 1650 -1800, therefore not many
heads of households and the population was even less dense in mid
Cardigan. It got me thinking how many John Jones there might have been
around the Llanddewibrefi area pre 1800. A look at LDB bapts in Find My
Past shows 1-3 per year 1776-1800 and later census show usually only one
per year or less, surviving to 60+. A look at burials in LDB shows quite a
high proportion would have died before the age of 20 and so unlikely to
have fathered children.
We are trying to find information on John Jones who died at Coedmawr
Uchaf, Llanddewibrefi around 1800, probate granted 24th Mar 1801. He was
involved in the cattle dealing/droving trade and left a sizable estate
which his will says he purchased from Edwards , Abermeurig. So the
question I asked myself was how many John Jones born around 1740 +or- a
few years were involved in the cattle trade and made enough money to buy a
small estate. The answer must be very few so myself and a fellow
researcher are looking for likely candidates to include or eliminate.
The hot favourite which Yvonne Evans has come up with is a John Jones who
was mentioned in the will of David Jones, Derry Ormond who was one time
Lord Lieutenant of Cardiganshire and died bankrupt in 1775. This John lived
at Nantyrhenfoel and would have been born around 1840 as his younger
brother William was less than 30 in 1775 when a case was brought against
him for being a cattle dealer who was underage ( Richard Moore-Collyers
book). The will was not actioned because of his bankruptcy but details
So the questions we would like to ask the list are
1) Does anyone know where Nantyrhenfoel was? We guess somewhere around
the Llanddewibrefi area. A Google search just takes us to the original
reference and we have yet to find it on a list of Cards place names.
2) Is there a reasonably reliable pedigree for David Jones, cattle
dealer, Derry Ormond? We have some information on brother William who was
father to the John we are seeking , another brother Theophilus and a sister
who’s name we do not know.
3) We have yet to find a burial for John Jones, Coedmawr Uchaf. The only
one in LDB burials is on 7th June 1796 but some questions remain. Would it
have taken almost 5years to grant probate? After the name is what we have
interpreted as ‘Sergeant’ . Does anyone read this as something
different? If it is sergeant what does it mean? If is simply a military
rank it is unlikely to refer to an estate owner who was described as a
gentleman. What other meanings are there? We have considered sergeant at
arms but there did not seem to many of them and they seem to be well
4) Are there any monumental inscriptions for Llanddewibrefi for burials
pre1800 and can they be easily accessed?
A few questions ,I know but we are hoping that more knowledgeable list
members may be able to answer a few.
Thanks in advance.
Rob Weeks, Preston
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