I went to school at Lampeter a long time ago, and know the area reasonably
This link will show you Nanthenfoel on a Map.
The population of Cardiganshire like all Counties was a lot smaller before
say 1800 than most realise.
A Good starting point to discover the number of individual properties in
each parish and the names of the occupiers would be the 1670 Hearth Tax
I have not seen a copy of the Cardiganshire return, and cannot tell you
what information is included, as it varies from county to county.
Pembrokeshire has been transcribed and lists those who paid, and paupers
who were exempt.
As a general rule in my experience, those you find in later Wills can be
traced to those who paid the Hearth Tax.
Take the number of properties in a Parish (with research you should be able
to identify most of those who paid) and multiply by a factor of 4.3 and
this should give the population of any particular parish within a 10%
The population was historically concentrated on Coastal Areas and also on
the best land, which were river valleys.
The Teifi, Aeron, Ystwyth and Rheidol.
Lampeter and Tregaron were ancient boroughs, which suggests that they were
in the past highly populated.
In 1771 Spencer, Nathaniel, pseud [Sanders, Robert] published.
"The Complete English Traveller; or, a new survey and description of
England and Wales. Containing A full Account of whatever is Curious and
Entertaining In The Several Counties of England and Wales, The Isles of
Man, Jersey, Guernsey, And other Islands adjoining to, and dependant on the
Crown of Great Britain."
What he considered Curious or entertaining I do not know, but here is a
list of towns and villages included in the entry for Cardiganshire.
Cardigan Town, Llan Gaedmor, Penbryn, Llandysell, Llanwenog, Llanarth,
Capel Cynnon a small agreeable village, Llanbedor St. Peters or as it is
vulgarly called Lampeter, a small village near this place (Lampeter) called
Capel St. Silin, Deheuid, Llanwennog, Llanwnnen, Tregaron, Lhan Dhewi
Brevi, Llanelua (I suspect as he mentions a convent of Nuns is Llanllyr),
Rhos-fair, Ystredmyrick, Llansanfreind, in this neighbour-hood Stratflour
Abbey, Aberystwyth, Llanvihangel (genau'r glyn), Llanbadarn Fawr.
What strikes me is that most of the places he mentions are along the Teifi
or Aeron Valleys.
Only Cardigan, Penbryn, Llanarth, Aberystwyth and Llanvihangel are coastal.
Not what I consider primary evidence, but publications like this assist in
building up a general picture.
Many of the places he mentions had markets, and historically must have been
considered of importance.
On 1 June 2017 at 19:31, Jen Cairns - Jen Mathias <jenmathias(a)gmail.com>
Hi Rob, you ask so many questions...! Here are a couple of
David Jones, of Derry Ormond who died 1775, was High Sheriff, NOT Lord
There are a couple of Nant-hen foels (fach and fawr) mentioned in Iwan
Wmffree's Cardiganshire Place Names. Ystrad (called Felin Fach/Felinfach
these days), Creuddyn Bridge area Map Refs are.... SN 547- 518 and SN
545-517 . I haven't checked a map, but this is close to Silian, and not
that far from Derry Ormond. Nant-Hen Foel Fawr seems to go back to the
13th century, and Crosswood MSS are mentioned frequently which might be
helpful for you.
Family trees... I have a couple which show Theophilus (who lived in
Blaenplwyf, close to Derry Ormond) and David Jones. They were both
instrumental in setting up a local link with David Rowlands and the
Methodist cause. Not much help to you I suspect... however a couple of days
ago I was shown a family tree which has David Jones in it, so will try to
have another look at it... but wont be necessarily this week... my computer
is having a major sulk, and looking through my backups is a major trauma.
However, I have a great interest in both Theophilus and David Jones (would
like to find parents for instance...), and I live about half a mile from
On 1 June 2017 at 18:42, <rob(a)robweeks.plus.com> wrote:
> Rhodri’s figures on the population of Cardiganshire were very
> We may debate the actual figures but the important points to me were
> there were not many people in Cardiganshire 1650 -1800, therefore not
> heads of households and the population was even less dense in mid
> Cardigan. It got me thinking how many John Jones there might have been
> around the Llanddewibrefi area pre 1800. A look at LDB bapts in Find My
> Past shows 1-3 per year 1776-1800 and later census show usually only one
> per year or less, surviving to 60+. A look at burials in LDB shows
> high proportion would have died before the age of 20 and so unlikely to
> have fathered children.
> We are trying to find information on John Jones who died at Coedmawr
> Uchaf, Llanddewibrefi around 1800, probate granted 24th Mar 1801. He was
> involved in the cattle dealing/droving trade and left a sizable estate
> which his will says he purchased from Edwards , Abermeurig. So the
> question I asked myself was how many John Jones born around 1740 +or- a
> few years were involved in the cattle trade and made enough money to
> small estate. The answer must be very few so myself and a fellow
> researcher are looking for likely candidates to include or eliminate.
> The hot favourite which Yvonne Evans has come up with is a John Jones
> was mentioned in the will of David Jones, Derry Ormond who was one time
> Lord Lieutenant of Cardiganshire and died bankrupt in 1775. This John
> at Nantyrhenfoel and would have been born around 1840 as his younger
> brother William was less than 30 in 1775 when a case was brought against
> him for being a cattle dealer who was underage ( Richard Moore-Collyers
> book). The will was not actioned because of his bankruptcy but details
> So the questions we would like to ask the list are
> 1) Does anyone know where Nantyrhenfoel was? We guess somewhere around
> the Llanddewibrefi area. A Google search just takes us to the original
> reference and we have yet to find it on a list of Cards place names.
> 2) Is there a reasonably reliable pedigree for David Jones, cattle
> dealer, Derry Ormond? We have some information on brother William who
> father to the John we are seeking , another brother Theophilus and a
> who’s name we do not know.
> 3) We have yet to find a burial for John Jones, Coedmawr Uchaf. The only
> one in LDB burials is on 7th June 1796 but some questions remain. Would
> have taken almost 5years to grant probate? After the name is what we
> interpreted as ‘Sergeant’ . Does anyone read this as something
> different? If it is sergeant what does it mean? If is simply a military
> rank it is unlikely to refer to an estate owner who was described as a
> gentleman. What other meanings are there? We have considered sergeant at
> arms but there did not seem to many of them and they seem to be well
> 4) Are there any monumental inscriptions for Llanddewibrefi for burials
> pre1800 and can they be easily accessed?
> A few questions ,I know but we are hoping that more knowledgeable list
> members may be able to answer a few.
> Thanks in advance.
> Rob Weeks, Preston
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