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> If I may I'd like to update you on what Genuki has been up to recently and
> ask for your help.
> The really big change has been converting the whole of Genuki to a Content
> Management System (CMS) called drupal.
> This has taken over 2 years of fairly intense effort to complete but the end
> result is that maintaining our pages is now considerably simpler/easier,
> certainly requiring little or no page coding expertise on the part of
> maintainers which may have been a deterrent in the past.
> I won't detail the many improvements now but please do contact me *direct*
> should you wish to learn more about what maintaining a county for Genuki now
> involves. Also see http://www.genuki.org.uk/org/helpus
> I personally look after all the Wales counties apart from Denbighshire.
> By choice I concentrate on 5 of these; Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire,
> Glamorgan, Monmouthshirer and Pembrokeshire.
> I also keep a watching brief on 7 other counties, namely Anglesey,
> Breconshire, Caernarvonshire, Flintshire, Merionethshire, Montgomeryshire
> and Radnorshire
> Which brings me to the real point of this message.
> The 7 'orphan' (for want of a better description) counties are well stocked
> in terms of content, although admittedly not quite as well as the other 5.
> Fact is, I can't do it all and the 7 deserve a full time maintainer each,
> can you help by taking on one of them?
> If any lister is curious enough to know more then please contact me direct
> on tirbach(a)clara.co.uk, *NOT* via the list please.
> I am mailing the Dyfed, Glamorgan, Clwyd, Powys and Gwynedd rootsweb lists,
> please forgive the duplication.
> Gareth Hicks.
I have now found that the person I was looking for is named Robert
Thomas and not William Thomas of Eglwys Cymun. There was a mistake in
the name I gave previously..This is regarding my recent query to the
List, re the qualifications of clergy and which university they would
have attended. I have found a bond and inventory for Robert Thomas
dated 1677.. The bond was in the name of Marian Thomas and witnessed by
John Thomas. Robert's daughter was Sarah Thomas, who married Richard
Morris of Caerllugest Llangeithio, but she was not named in the bond.
and inventory. In the research papers at Ceredigion Archives Robert was
named as Rector of Eglwys Cymun, and named "Clerk" in bond.. . He
owned stock, but I know clergyman often farmed. The only person by the
name of Robert Thomas in Oxford Alumni was "Robert Thomas pleb Jesus
College matric 1658"
Has anyone else had issues with the Calvinistic Methodist Chapel Registers on FindMyPast?
Today I was chasing a Rowland Rowlands, allegedly baptised in 1821 at a chapel in Bettws, North Carmarthenshire, according to FMP, taken from RG 4/3831.
However, as I was also at the National Archives, I could access the Mormon image copy of this same register - but could not find it there. Eventually, by using the page number on the FMP image, I could track it down to the Calvinistic Methodist Chapel in Llandingat. This was because the Mormons had microfilmed the introductory pages and cover of the register, which FMP had not.
As far as I can make out, most of RG 4/3831 are Calvinistic Methodist registers from Carmarthenshire in the 1813 to 1837 period - but I am now not sure now how good FMP's indexing of each individual set of Chapel baptisms has been with respect to the corresponding parish geography.
And of course, wrong parish means a potential wild goose chase on any further research. This is my wife's family who allegedly came from Caio.
Two items on addressing
1. When posting please only use dyfed(a)rootsweb.com. The old
addresseses of dyfed-l@ and dyfed-d@ are no longer valid, and get
referred to me for approval.
2. The is a hopefully temporary issue when replying to a posting. The
system is putting some incorrect text in from of the email address. If
you remove this text it will go to the list without having to have my
Those of you on Digest mode will now receive daily digests and not have
to wait until a number of messages accumulate. The rootsweb team have
re-implemented this feature following many complaints.
It would be nice to see some more activity on the list, surely someone
must have some problems to solve.
> Dear Dyfed,
> Lynne in Canberra, if you are still a member, would you please contact me as I have received correspondence from a lady whose personal family history includes the Batemans of Castell Cenlas.
> Warm regards,
> Bettye Kirkwood, Sydney, Australia
> Sent from my iPad
Many thanks for your replies. As I stated previously Rhodri, I found
a tree which included William Thomas from Ceredigion Archives. This had
been researched by an ex employee of NLW. I have traced William
Thomas on to Evan Jones Coedmawr Llanddewi Brefi My ancestor John Jones
Coedmawr is in this line. William Thomas had a son Thomas Thomas who
moved to Caernarvonshire. Thomas Thomas had a daughter Sarah Thomas who
married Evan Jones of Coedmawr. This marriage approx 1730 - 1740, but I
am unable to find the marriage in Cardiganshire, so possibly marriage of
Evan Jones to Sarah Thomas could be Caernarvonshire. Rector William
Thomas' wife was Sarah Morris of Caerllugest Llangeithio.(parents of
above Thomas Thomas).
First, many thanks for the help with my Evans mystery. I got a couple
of issues straightened out with my Stepaside Evans which is a
wonderful unexpected surprise.
On May 10, 2018, at 7:04 AM, Pat wrote:
> …baptism in St Issells on 14th Nov 1820 for a William born to
> Nicholas Evans and Ann Davies so maybe Mary was not the only one to
> be born before the marriage.
> That was not uncommon for couple at that time.
Like my grandmother (Nicholas' grand-daughter) said about babies: the
first [child] can come any time--all the rest take 9 months. WIlliam
and Mary. I shall keep that in mind.
Also cleared up was the a seeming departure from Welsh naming
customs. Nick's father and mother were William Evans and Mary
Hutchins Evans, and I'd assumed John was the first born. Good to know
that proprieties were observed
> Re John I'm not sure about the baptism of a Thomas on 31st July 1825
Given multiple subsequent records for both John and Thomas, this has
to be an incorrect entry. If Thomas were born in 1829 then his
marriage and burial records and the 1841 and 1851 census entries
would be wrong. Another reason to back check everything.
We are the Village Green Preservation Society.
God save Donald Duck, vaudeville and variety.
We are the Desperate Dan Appreciation Society.
God save strawberry jam and all the different varieties.
I have a probable ancestor in William Thomas Rector of Eglwys Cymyn near
Pendine. He was appointed Rector there in 1690. I cannot find where he
received his degree. I have looked through Oxford Alumni, but he is not
there. It is possible he was a Cardiganshire native, as I have traced
his line to Caerllugest, Llangeithio, Ceredigion. He would not have
attended Ystradmeurig Grammar/College as that was not opened until
approx 1720.Can anyone suggest where I could look to find his place of
religious education? This would be useful as his father could be
named, which would give a clue to his ancestry.
I have found a link to my tree through research at Ceredigion Archives,
which contained research made by an ex member of staff at NLW
Ancestry is the one I use and it has a good family tree database as well. I personally would give My Heritage a wide berth.
Lost cousins gives you an insight into the major DNA testing sites at:
Cruwys has a blog that is worth reading. It also gives you details of how to analise your results by using a third party tool called DNAGedcom and DNAGedcom Client. I wish I had used the later tool a long time ago. I used another one which wasn't as good. It will download all of your matches from 23andMe, FamilyTreeDNA and AncestryDNA.
For AncestryDNA it gives you 3 files, one with ALL of your matches, another with the basic trees of those matches and more crucial a file that contains matches that you have in common with another user and at least one other user. This information is important because it saves time searching family trees or surnames and geographical locations.
By knowing which matches others have in common with you, you build up groups, pretty quickly, even if the matches only have a small amount of DNA in common with you, they will match someone else, who may have a greater amount of DNA with you. Making it easier to build up the various family lines.
AncestryDNA will also allow you to manage your relatives DNA page.
GEDmatch kit no: A585504
On Wed, 9/5/18, Cathryn Davies via DYFED <dyfed(a)rootsweb.com> wrote:
I am considering sending this DNA kit as a present. Would people think it is good value for money?
My grandmother's family comes originally from St Issels where her
father, John Evans, started out in the coal pits as a child. I was
lucky enough to get a look at St Issels baptismal records from 1825,
and found all sorts of family information that I was able to track
from a number of sources, except for GGrF John who was born in 1825
(according to census and other records from both sides of the
Atlantic. The only birth to GGGrF Nicholas and spouse Ann in 1825 is
listed as Thomas Evans. Census, marriage (1852) and burial (1861)
records for Thomas show he was born in 1829, while the St Issels
records show nothing at any time about the birth of John Evans to
Nicholas and Ann. I know I have the right parish because John and all
of his siblings are recorded in the right order and in the proper
years according to other St Issels records and every UK census
through 1861. John married and moved to Rhymney around 1850 and to
Pennsylvania's hard coal regions in 1862.
I'm trying to work out the mystery. My theory is that John was
actually baptized in a dissenting church and there was an error in
transcription at some point. I suspect that John's birth was
originally recorded somewhere besides St Issells (maybe Sardis Chapel
where some of his family were eventually buried), and the records
transcribed with John's birth switched with Thomas. The error would
have happened after Thomas was born (1829) but before John left
Does anyone have information on the history of parish records around
Saundersfoot? Is an error like I've described even possible? Has
anyone run into inconsistencies like this?
Depending on responses I'll pose the problem of Mystery Mary--a woman
about 2 years older than John who shows up with GGrF Nicholas'
household census records. Mary's birth or marriage isn't recorded at
St Issels and she was born well before Nicholas and Ann were married.
(But then how hard could it be to track down a Welshwoman named Mary
Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
chrisw(a)skypoint.com | this distance" (last words of Gen.
.......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
This certainly throws the light I had hoped to find about the origins of Ursula Howard, and explains having a son called George, a name that I had not found earlier in the Prydderch pedigree.
I will have explore the Orielton connection further, as this could certainly explain the links between Anglesey and Pembrokeshire.
Sent from Samsung tablet
-------- Original message --------
From: RHODRI DAFIS <rhodridafis(a)gmail.com>
Date: 03/05/2018 23:06 (GMT+00:00)
To: "Coverng the Welsh counties of Cardiganshire (Ceredigion), Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire." <dyfed(a)rootsweb.com>
Subject: [Dyfed] Re: Ursula Howard of Pembrokeshire
*JOHN PICTON of Rudbaxton, son of Philip Picton, (called ‘the testator’ in
West Wales Historical Records, Volume X, 1924, by Francis Green), was aged
4 in 1627/8, when he was in the custody of Hugh Owen of Orielton. He
married Elinor Haward, daughter of George Haward of Fletherhill, Rudbaxton,
before 1650, and is mentioned in George Haward’s will, dated 30 June 1650,
as the husband of the testator’s daughter, Elinor Haward, who was to
receive £100 under his will. John Picton gave 20s towards a present to
King Charles II on 26 November 1661, when described as of Rudbaxton, Gent.
Elinor Picton presumably died before her husband, as she is not mentioned
in his will. He is mentioned in the draft will of George Haward of
Fletherhill, Rudbaxton, in 1665 [C 5/538/62]. John Picton’s will is dated
1 May 1666, and was proved on 13 September 1666. It refers to “a tenement
of mine called The Bush”. *
*JOHN PICTON of Poyston in the parish of Rudbaxton, Gent., son of John
Picton of Rudbaxton, was under age in 1666. In 1675 he demised lands at
Bletherston to Arthur Jones, Gent. He was a co-defendant with Richard
Jones, Gent., to a Bill of Complaint filed by John Colby on 12 April 1684
[Owen and Colby MSS, 264, NLW]. This may relate to a suit in Chancery in
1683 between John Colby, plaintiff and Richard Jones, Richard Gibbon, John
Picton, John Protheroe and Ursula his wife, defendants [Mitford Division,
C8/287/13]. John Picton stated that he had received several tenements in
the parish of Ambleston under the will of his uncle, George Haward of
Fletherhill (d. 1665). Such tenements had a yearly value of £3 but had
never been occupied by him.*
*These premises seem to have been secured by John Picton following a suit
in Chancery [C 5/538/62] brought by himself, his aunt Ursula Protheroe and
others against Joan Haward and Thomas Haward, her son, alleging suppression
by the defendants of the will of George Haward (d. 1663) by Joan's husband,
James Haward (d. 1668). The draft will of George Haward was exhibited in
this suit and it devised to John Picton the reversion or remainder of the
testator's lands in Ambleston, in which Jane and Anne Jenkins had life
interests, together with two other messuages in Ambleston.*
*From another Source.*
*1. George Haward of Flether Hill, Rudbaxton. He m. 1stly, a daughter of
David Lloyd of Morvil. They had issue:*
* 1. Elinor Haward, fl. 1650, m. pre 1650, John Picton of Rudbaxton,
aged 4 in 1627/8, when he was in the custody of Hugh Owen of Orielton.
John's will is dated 1 May 1666, and was proved on 13 Sep 1666. They had
issue. 2. Ursula Haward, m. pre 1650, John Protheroe, of Anglesey (Golden
Grove Book), both fl. 1683. George Haward m. 2ndly, Anne, according to the
Golden Grove Book, daughter of Bulkeley and widow of Tasker of the Pill. He
left a will dated 30 June 1650, proved 10 Feb 1651-2 PCC (32 Bowyer) by his
widow Anne, and son George. In his will, he made bequests to the poor of
Rudbaxton, Langum, Spittle, and Walton East. By his second wife Anne, he
had issue: 3. George Haward of Flether Hill, Rudbaxton, fl. 1651/2. He
was bequeathed land in Langum, Pembs. and Henllan Amgoed, Carms. by his
father. High Sheriff co. Pembs. 1659 & 1660. He d. 6 May 1665, aged 32,
bur. Rudbaxton. He left his property in the parish of Ambleston to his
nephew John Picton. *
The marriage of Ursula Hayward/Howard/Havard to John Protheroe/Prytherch
does appear it seems in the Golden Grove Books, and appears in Pedigrees of
Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families by J E Griffith originally published
in 1914 on Page.148 (TY CALCH, Llangristiolus and CERRIG-GWYDDEL,
John Prytherch, bur. Mar 11, 1692 = Ursula Howard, d. of Howard of
Pembrokeshire, bur. Jan 27, 1690.
On 3 May 2018 at 13:20, Brian Swann <bps(a)norvic8.force9.co.uk> wrote:
> Ursula Haward [sic.] was a member of the Haward families of Rudbaxton in
> Pembrokeshire. She definitely married John Picton of Rudbaxton around 1650.
> I have never heard of a second marriage, and if it happened, it will be
> after 1666 when John Picton was buried. If I remember correctly, the C
> 5/662 and C 5/663 Chancery Proceedings at the TNA also mention a John
> Protheroe as a co-defendant along with John Picton and his wife, Ursula -
> so this may also be significant assuming Protheroe and Prytherch are the
> same surname. That all related to the suppression of the draft will of
> George Haward made in 1663 by his cousin, James Haward.
> What evidence exists from the Anglesey end of this relationship?
> Of course, Owen family of Orielton migrated down from Anglesey to
> Pembrokeshire around this time.
> > On 3 May 2018, at 12:55, iolo.g(a)virgin.net wrote:
> > I am interested in finding the parentage of Ursula Howard (died 1690),
> who was allegedly born in Pembrokeshire. She was married to John Prytherch,
> 1632-1692 of Plas Tregaean, Anglesey, and later of Ty Calch, Cerrigceinwen,
> > _______________________________________________
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I am interested in finding the parentage of Ursula Howard (died 1690), who was allegedly born in Pembrokeshire. She was married to John Prytherch, 1632-1692 of Plas Tregaean, Anglesey, and later of Ty Calch, Cerrigceinwen, Anglesey.
I have become aware from the listowners list of two issues that affect
those of you who receive messages in Digest mode.
1) digests are now sent out only on a size basis. Formerly they were
sent out daily, or when a size limit is reached, today it is only the
latter. Rootsweb are looking at getting a daily option, but it seems
this is not likely to be any time soon. the effect of this is that
lists such as ours, with a small throughput may not issue digests for
some time. This seems to have happened to this list recently. As far as
I can see, a note posted on 20 April has not yet been issued as a
digest. (Maybe this note will trigger the issue). You can see the note
in the archives here:
If that link breaks across the page, try this instead:
If this is a concern then your options are to put up with it; switch to
individual messages; or check the archives manually.
2) Some lists have reported members receiving digests as a long string
of unformatted text. This can be changed by changing one of the system
settings.Unfortunately I believe that this has to be done by me. If it
is affecting anyone here then let me know.