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What about a marriage certificate? That should give a father's name &
It look from the 1881 census that Thomas Griffith is still living in
Danygraig (shown as Tan y Graig on the LDS CD)
Although he is a widower the birth certificate of his son could give his
mother's name - and then you could track down the marriage (unless you
have already done that)
As he is still in Danygraig and as Benjamin Phillip & family were there
at least from 1841 to 1861 , it could mean that there is some link
What do you think?
Dwelling: Tan Y Graig
Census Place: Llangolman, Pembroke, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342301 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5403 Folio
4 Page 1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Thomas GRIFFITHS W 30 M Llandissilio,
Occ: Farmer 18 Ac & Butter Merchant
John GRIFFITHS 4 M Llangolman, Pembroke, Wales
Ann ROSSER U 50 F Llandissilio, Carmarthen, Wales
In message <SIMEON.10411291648.F(a)g395h0j.exeter.ac.uk>, Roy Davies
>I have tried before, without success, to find his birth
>certificate. In fact quite a few of my Pembrokeshire
>ancestors and relations don't seem to have had birth
>certificates, and since they were mainly Baptists they
>weren't christened either. That is why I would like to find
>out who paid the living expenses of Thomas Griffiths when
>he was a boarder or at least, if there are no specific
>records in this case, who normally would have paid for
>children to be boarders at that time.
Thank you for your reply. I am sorry that I could not respond
sooner but my Outlook Express has been playing up over the weekend. I do not
know why, but now it seems to be working again.
You mentioned the article by Major Jones on the Williams of Edwinsford, the
complete article was split into two and appeared in the Transactions of the
Honourable Society of Cymrodorion over two years. The Flintshire Record
Office could only find their copy of the first but not the second. However
during a telephone conversation a very kind member of the staff of the
Carmarthen Record Office offered to look up the second for me. He rang me
back to say that he could not see anything that might offer a solution to my
I took notice of your Garnon reference for the Earl of Chester, but I think
that this all happened some considerable time after their holding of the
believe that this affair may have started in 1539 when Henry VIII (as Earl
of Chester) gave a lease on an
area of land in the township of Garneddwen. That date also coincides with
the dissolution of the lesser monasteries.
Hence my thoughts about the Monastery of Talley perhaps being involved as a
The answer probably is in the National Archives at Kew where there are
possibly thousands of unindexed documents relating to the Earldom of
Thanks again for your interest.
I have tried before, without success, to find his birth
certificate. In fact quite a few of my Pembrokeshire
ancestors and relations don't seem to have had birth
certificates, and since they were mainly Baptists they
weren't christened either. That is why I would like to find
out who paid the living expenses of Thomas Griffiths when
he was a boarder or at least, if there are no specific
records in this case, who normally would have paid for
children to be boarders at that time.
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:23:48 +0000 Pat Powell
> Hello Roy
> I think this could be Thomas Griffiths in Llandissilio in the 1851
> Unfortunately he still isn't with his family.
> There are quite a few Griffiths families in the area - maybe you could
> send for a birth certificate and then I can see what matches.
> 1851 census:
> Llandissilio enum dist 9c
> Page 8 schedule 39
> Benjamin James Head M 38 Ag Lab Cmn Kilymaenllwyd
> Anne James wife M 41 Pem Llanycefn
> Mary James dau 10 Cmn Llandissilio
> Edward James son 8 Cmn Llandissilio
> Benjamin James son 5 Cmn Llandissilio
> Margaret James son 2 Cmn Llandissilio
> Thomas Griffith nursing child 1 Cmn Llandissilio
Did people recorded as "boarders" in 19th century censuses
normally have to pay for their accommodation? If so, where
would the money have come from if the boarders were all
My great grandfather, Thomas Griffiths, was listed as a
boarder in the 1861 census when he was 11. By the time of
the 1871 census he was still living as a boarder at the
same address but by then was working as a slater so he
could obviously pay for his accommodation himself. But who
would have paid ten years earlier when he was still
In 1861 another, younger child had also been listed as a
boarder at the same address, but that child had the same
surname as the head of the family and his wife.
Both boarders were listed as still attending school, but I
don't know which one. I believe that virtually all schools
charged fees in those days. Who would have paid their fees?
Would there be any surviving records of who paid? As I have
so far been unable to identify my great grandfather's
parents I thought that if I could find out who paid for his
accommodation and schooling that might help me to find out
what (if anything) had happened to his parents.
RG9/4147 parish of Llangolman
Benjamin Phillips Head M 58 Farmer 20 acres PEM Bletherston
Phebe Phillips wife M 64 PEM Llangolman
Elizabeth Phillips dau U 35 Llandissilio
Dorothy Phillips Gdau 2 "
Thomas Griffiths boarder 11 scholar "
Arthur Phillips boarder 8 scholar Llangolman
Could SKS who has access to the 1851 and 1861 censuses please look to
see if Rees THOMAS (b abt 1793 ) and wife Hana / Hannah/ Anne (b abt
1796) are there. At the time of the 1841 census they were living at
Don't discount the fact that he could have been related to his 'hosts'. I
found my gggrandparents (Hughes, Haverfordwest) in the 1901 census just after it
came on line last year or whenever. They had a young 14 year old boarder
named George Warlow. I hadn't come across the Warlow name in my research so
assumed he was just a paying lodger. Just a few months ago, an elderly aunt of
mine was reminiscing and mentioned an ancestor, Mary Ann Hughes who I knew
little about. When I pressed for more info, my aunt replied
"Well, she married some chap from London, a widower with 5 children. I think
his name was Warlow."
Turns out, George was one of those 5 children. Suddenly I had a whole new
line to investigate.
Talking of which, if anyone is researching the Warlow name (Pembrokeshire
and Hampstead) I'd love to hear from you.
Good Morning John,
Wonderful as these photographs are, it was the biography, albeit much too
brief, that left my wife and I quite amazed. What a life and what an example
Please pass our thanks to Mrs Tinnion.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ball" <wfha(a)clara.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 6:04 AM
Subject: [Dyfed] New "Images of Wales" feature - "Wales in the 1920s and
: Dear Listers,
: I have just uploaded an unusual new two-page "Images of Wales" feature
: my website.
: The webpages show a selection of superb black and white photographs of
: taken in the 1920s and '30s by recently-deceased Charles Williams, a
: Bristol-born photographer whose parents came from Monmouthshire. Mr
: Williams's daughter discovered the photographs whilst sorting through her
: father's things, and kindly offered me the chance to publish them on my
: The twenty high quality photographs record subjects such as: Newport (MON)
: and its docks; the towns of Caerleon (MON) and Aberystwyth (CGN); and
: scenes in southeast, mid, and north Wales.
: Observe how much or how little Wales has changed over the past 75 years!
: To view this new "Images of Wales" webpage, go to
: http://home.clara.net/wfha/walespic/ and select the appropriate link.
: Kind regards,
: John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK
: E-mail: wfha(a)clara.co.uk
: Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/
: Images of Wales: http://home.clara.net/wfha/walespic/
: Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/
: ==== DYFED Mailing List ====
: Genuki PEM http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/PEM/
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 26/11/04
I have just uploaded an unusual new two-page "Images of Wales" feature onto
The webpages show a selection of superb black and white photographs of Wales
taken in the 1920s and '30s by recently-deceased Charles Williams, a
Bristol-born photographer whose parents came from Monmouthshire. Mr
Williams's daughter discovered the photographs whilst sorting through her
father's things, and kindly offered me the chance to publish them on my
The twenty high quality photographs record subjects such as: Newport (MON)
and its docks; the towns of Caerleon (MON) and Aberystwyth (CGN); and rural
scenes in southeast, mid, and north Wales.
Observe how much or how little Wales has changed over the past 75 years!
To view this new "Images of Wales" webpage, go to
http://home.clara.net/wfha/walespic/ and select the appropriate link.
John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK
Images of Wales: http://home.clara.net/wfha/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/
This is in answer to David Lister's question re the Edwinsford Collection.
You have your answer. These big estates had land in other areas of Wales. I
would certainly look at the index into that site (NLW MS Collection). Day
before yesterday I was looking at Francis Jones' book on the Historic Homes of
Cardiganshire and their families and ran across the Edwinsford Deeds. It was on
one of the estates owned by Lloyds in Cardiganshire. (Doubtful I'm related.)
> I am probably the first genuine 'new Lister' to join the Dyfed list. With=
> surname like mine it makes life very difficult searching for ancestors on
> My 'normal' areas for research are Flintshire and Anglesey which I have b=
> researching for more than seven years. I am now at a stage where very lit=
> progress can be made. Too many Evans, Hughes, Williams etc. Many of my
> family were farmers, both tenants and owners in one small township,
> Garneddwen' in the parish of Ysceifiog, Flintshire. I began to realise th=
> these small farms had a history of their own, and began to follow that ba=
> in time.
> I have come across one problem which is defeating me, and the National
> Library, The Carmarthenshire, and Flintshire Record Offices, and the Hist=
> Department of the University of Wales at Bangor.
> It appears in a listing at the NLW on the Isysweb site, in the Edwinsford
> Collection. The reference is NLW949 July 17th. 1585. The index gives abou=
> five lines regarding various local matters relating to the estate, and
> fishing rights on the River Towy and marriage customs in Carmarthenshire,
> then is followed by:- 'and a messuage and 16 acres of land in Skyveock,
> being parcel of escheat lands in the commote of Ruthland, co. Flint and
> parcel of the possessions late of the Earl of Chester'. It is then follow=
> by more references to Carmarthenshire.
> One of my family farms, Garneddwen Bach had at one time included a parcel=
> escheat land over which there were several court cases in the late 1500's
> early 1600's, so the reference could well be applicable. But the question=
> why the connection to Carmarthenshire, and the Williams family of
> Edwinsford? The only possibility that I can think of is a connection thro=
> lands of the Abbey of Talley and the dissolution of the monasteries.
> Before I subscribed I looked at the archives for the Dyfed List, and saw =
> messages in November regarding the distinctions between different
> descriptions of people. I found some time ago tables produced by Gregory
> King for the year 1688. These show amounts of income per annum required f=
> different classes. The full lists can be found on the internet under Greg=
> King, but some are as follows.
> Annual income Esquire, =A3450, Gentleman, =A3280, Freeholders (of the bet=
> sort) =A391, Freeholders (of the lesser sort =A355, Clergyman =A355, Tena=
> nt Farmer
> =A342, Tradesman =A345, Artisans =A338, Labourers =A315, and Cottagers =A3=
> 6. I hope
> these are interesting.
> Any ideas on the Edwinsford papers will be gratefully received.
> David Lister.
> X-Message: #7
LLANDEILO; *1; DAVIES, Thomas (Nantyffin 1831-1869); *2; Anne Evans
(Melin-y-coed 1836-1918); *3; Farmer; *4; Nantyffin (1831-1862)/Melin-y-coed
(1862-1867)/Gelli (1867-1871)/Llanarthney Parish (1881)/Garnant, GLA (1881-?); *5; Sarah
1860-1938 (Nantyffin)/Daniel 1861-? (Nantyffin)/Anniemary 1865-1897
(Melin-y-coed)/Jane 1868-1896 (Gelli); *6; Mountain Ash, GLA, 1901 Anniemary
Davies/Lloyd; *7; Annie Lloyd, granddaughter
Hope this is correct, Gareth. I don't know as much about this family as I do