This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard to if
they at least leave the last post.
Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line for the
one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have the
subject lines edited.
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson <bhilderson(a)msn.com>wrote:
To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please
offense; but it was very difficult to
read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you delete
all other messages before replying
it would make your reply easier to read. Barb
>>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named
>>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the
>>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an
>>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes.
Thank you for the explanation as to
We should be grateful for those who went before us......
And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!!
With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that
your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during
the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the
Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian'
Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is
vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period
history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the
geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early
and going forward.
I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick
Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time
in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I
with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which
becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your
personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as
well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of
your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which
happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact
that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive
to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all
It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time
probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more
period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater
Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity
is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to
the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful
productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their
"ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their
"citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge
variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions,
education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village
group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to
them, speaks to that fact and informs it.
None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or
identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far
richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a
collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe
rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness
ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village"
identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a
courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent
There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was
born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian,
French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the
best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian
and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime.
Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
To: bbd2424(a)gmail.com; islandkaren(a)bellsouth.net; dvhalas(a)comcast.net;
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results
Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank you for
the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a formal
elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both
you time and effort.
Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb
(Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio
(My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld,
This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the
nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The
long-time followers of this List may want to skip them
1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing
common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they
can form a national minority.
2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of
the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were
multinational because of the presence of national minorities).
3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the
territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality
by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change
nationality by force were never completely successful.
4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and
citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by
5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the
ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily
6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a
nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized
That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established
historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history,
language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in
arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by
their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the
country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New
World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we
are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors
their own decisions. May they rest in peace!
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