Until 1947 there was no such thing as Canadian citizenship. Even after that
Canadians were also born British subjects (I was so born in 1963). This
statement appeared in my first passport in the early 1970s: "The bearer of
this passport is a British subject". Later the statement was replaced with
"The bearer of this passport is a Commonwealth citizen", which doesn't have
the same meaning to my mind, nice though the concept is. When my forebears
left Devon for Canada in 1833 I am sure that they never dreamed that their
descendants would cease to be British. Canada's first Prime Minister, Sir
John A. Macdonald was famous for his statement "A British subject I was born
and a British subject I shall die". In a world where we are constantly
talking about the global village etc., it does seem odd to me to have seen
the dismantling of that great overarching family of nations who all enjoyed
inclusion under the umbrella term, British subject. I find it a little hard
that my maternal grandfather and his siblings went to Canada and East Africa
in the 'noughties' of the last century with no passport and I cannot travel
to Australia, for example, without being considered 'foreign', when the
number of generations that separate me from my Aussie cousins in Adelaide
(they went out in 1838 while my forebear, also a Bray, possibly of Devonian
ancestry, arrived in Upper Canada in 1838, all sans passports). Wider and
yet wider shall thy bounds be set, the sentiment of Elgar's Land of Hope and
Glory, is my viewpoint. If we are going to have 'one world', I'd much rather
have it under Pax Britannica (incl. Pax Devonica), in a renewed
Commonwealth, than under any other.
Happy Easter and a blessed mourning period for Her late Majesty of happy
Richard H.B. Carruthers(-Zurowski), B.A. (Hons), Oxon.
Vancouver, British Columbia, CANADA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lorraine Frost" <lfrost(a)sympatico.ca>
Sent: 31-Mar-02 4:35 AM
Subject: Re: Birthplace vs. Origins
Hello Louise and List Members,
I will not profess to be an expert on Canadian History, but am recalling
from my school days. Other list members may have other information.
1932 there was no such thing as Canadian citizenship. All persons
British citizenship. Ethnic origins have been collected on Canadian
questionnaires, up to the present time. Canadians of British origin
particular would have definitely identified themselves as British, English
etc. In fact, until the 1970's if someone asked me what my nationality
was, I would say "English", even though I was two generations distant from
the old country. A visit to the U.K. in 1974 gave me the opportunity to
realign my national self-identity.
So, in looking at the 1871 Ontario portion of the census (only a portion
this census is available on-line - Ontario being one bit), one can
determine which of the hits is a possibility by birth place and ethnic
In looking at the 1871 map posted on the site, I find that there are place
names no longer in use that give clues to the origins of European settlers
in the area. The names seem to cluster - ie lots of Irish names together,
then lots of English etc. So anyone with good knowledge of Devon place
names could likely find the counties must fruitful to search.
At 12:29 PM 31/03/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>A while back a lister posted this site to check out
>the Ontario Census Index of 1871
>I managed to find a SOBEY & a SOBY!
>Under 'Birthplace' it states that both where born in Ontario and under
>'Origins' it states 'English'.
>I understand this to mean they where born in Ontario but their ethnic
>origins were English. Their ancestors having come from England - which
>would most likely be Devon (or maybe Cornwall via Devon).
>Please, has anyone any ideas or suggestions how many generations Canadian
>born before they are no longer form a different ethnic origin.
>Thanking you in anticipation,
>Devon FHS member
>SOBEE / SOBYE / SOBY / SOBEY any time & place
>SOBEE / WILLIS / POPHAM- Holbeton, Plympton St. Mary,Yealmpton,
>NORTHWAY - Joanna c.1760 Manaton, Devon
>SOBEE William b. 1855 Holbeton, Devon - Groom in Durham in 1881, then to
>==== DEVON Mailing List ====
>The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon
>(http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/genuki/DEV/) and the Devon FHS
==== DEVON Mailing List ====
The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon
) and the Devon FHS