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New to the List (less than an hour)
I'd like to post my interests
John Burton CLEMENTS--Born May 8th 1816
John married in Liverpool 1842
at his marriage
John (Block Maker) son of John CLEMENTS a Ship's Carpenter
address Livin St, Liverpool age full a bachelor
I've JUST found the following from 1851's census
JOHN block maker TEIGNMOUTH,DEVON 367
the online IGI shows
John Burden CLEMENTS
Christened: 26 May 1816
West Teignmouth, Devon, England
Father: John CLEMENTS
and Looking for the parents Marriage
Spouse: Grace CURLINE
Marriage: 12 Mar 1815
West Teignmouth, Devon, England
John's son George moved from Liverpool after his second marriage to
Birmingham in the 1890's.
Devon is a new County for my research and I'd really appreciate any guidance
as to Parishes and what's available through the DFHS or online....I do have
the 1881 CD's AND the 1851 tri county inc Devon.. and can do look ups for
but born in Birmingham
Looking for CLEMENTS in Devon
(Mom's Maiden Name ))8-D) )
John bn 1816 is my 3 x Gt Grandfather
My dictionary says: It is a syrup got in the process of refining sugar,
molasses: (fig.) cloying brandishments etc.
I have only come across it in the form of a sweet food i.e. Treacle Toffee,
or Treacle to spread on my bread. Toffee Apples were very popular at
I think "Brimstone and Treacle" refers to a hot and sticky mess.
From: Cindy Colbath <ccolbath(a)capecod.net>
To: DEVON-L(a)rootsweb.com <DEVON-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 03:38
>Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is TREACLE? I have heard about it
here and there, but was never sure what it was. Like in Monty Python
sketches, i.e. "Brimstone and Treacle", etc.
I may have missed something important as a result of being away on holiday.
On my return, I was intrigued to find references to Treacle Mines.
I have not heard about this for many a long year. When I was a boy, living in Plymouth, it was part of our local folk-law that there were Treacle Mines at Tamerton Foliot. I don't know the origin of this.
I was recently sent the following after it appeared on Yorksgen, and
thought that you would find it just as interesting.
Karen in Abbotsford BC
Subject: Being Married without one?s Knowledge
I hope you find the following interesting.
?Married or Not Married? in The Guardian, Monday 1 September 1986
A woman called Gloria was born in Colombia, married a man called Dai
and bore his child. Throughout their time together, he beat her up. The
Office demanded evidence of her marriage and her husband?s birth
proof of her right to British nationality. Her husband refused to hand
birth certificate and she was faced with deportation. She tried to
birth certificate but at St Catherine?s House she discovered that there
such person as Dai Llewelyn and that he had given a false name at the
She could not prove that she was married to a British citizen unless she
discover his true identity. The day she came home from the PRO and
him about his real identity he beat her up again and refused to tell her
was. She escaped with her child to a woman?s refuge and he then
Her deportation was threatened for late August unless she could find out
His photograph was published in the paper and he telephoned, but refused to
his name or whereabouts. However, he did go to the police and the Home
is now satisfied that Gloria is legally married to a British subject.
He had done nothing illegal. You do not have to produce a birth
obtain a marriage licence, and you can marry under any name you choose
there is no fraudulent intent. The marriage between the two people who
the ceremony remains valid whatever they call themselves so long as
partner is married already. This oddity in the law can lead to serious abuse.
Helen Ventress, a pottery teacher, was served with divorce papers by a
solicitors acting for a Chinese waiter called Robert Cheung. As far
knew, she had never been married, but his solicitors refused to believe
They said ?we know you married Mr Cheung in 1975 and you were paid £250.
a marriage of convenience so just sign the divorce papers.? Her parents
believe her either when she said she had not been married. They thought
she had done this for the money when she was a hard-up first-year student.
Eventually they did believe her and then she was sent a copy of the
certificate between herself, Helen Rebecca Ventress, and Robert
solemnised at Paddington Register Office on 3 November 1975. It
parents? names and address and her date of birth. She is the only
Ventress registered within 20 years either side of the her date. The
against her seemed pretty conclusive.
Finally, Mr Cheung?s solicitors sent a private detective to see her to
get her to sign the divorce papers and admit she had indeed been married.
luckily, Mr Cheung had taken photographs after the wedding. The
detective saw her he realised that she was not the woman in the
photographs. Someone else had stolen her identity and married using her
address and details. She did not recognise the girl in the photographs
completely mystified. Then, studying one of the photographs
recognised a young man in the background. His name was Glen Dixon and
been at Ripon Grammar School with him, although he had been in a class
She had no idea why he had chosen her identity but he knew her parents?
as both their fathers had been publicans in Ripon when they were both at
Glen Dixon was found and the woman who married Mr Cheung in Helen?s
identified as Susan Begbie, Glen Dixon?s girlfriend at the time. They
Mr Cheung in a London pub when he was looking for a British woman to
gain British citizenry. They wanted the money, they said, to go on
Helen?s case was taken up by her MP. She hoped to get the marriage
and her name removed from the register. However, there is no legal
remove a marriage certificate from the books ? even when the marriage is
(bigamous for instance). This marriage is voidable but one of the
Susan Begbie or Robert Cheung, has to go to court to void it. Even
marriage would remain on the register.
Helen?s MP wrote to the Registrar General. He replied that in law Helen
married and there is nothing to stop her marrying in the future if
wishes. He went on to say that he would be instructing the
Registrar at Westminster who now has custody of the register to report the
to the police for such action as it saw fit to take. Helen never heard any
but she assumed prosecutions would follow. However, the Director of
Prosecutions says the police did investigate but decided to take no
action. The DPP never gives any reason but it does not mean that no
fraud or perjury) was committed ? just that for some reason the police
follow this case up.
Helen now wants to marry her boyfriend, Brian. There is nothing to
?but I would like a declaration in court establishing in law that the
to Mr Cheung never took place?. She has no money and is applying for legal
However, even when she has the court?s public acknowledge-ment that she
married, she bitterly resents that fact that there is nothing whatever
do to get the record of the marriage removed or altered, nor can she get a
attached to the record to explain that the person married is Susan
know it?s only a remote possibility, but supposing in the future when we
dead and gone that my grandchildren are due to inherit. It could be
the book that I was never legally married to Brian, as I had previously
Divorce decree records are public documents available in the Principal
of the Family Division Court. Checking there, officials report that
been no divorce, or declaration that the marriage is void, between Robert
and Susan Begbie, either in her own name or in Helen Ventress?s name.
marriage remains valid. Wherever Susan Begbie may be now, she may not
that her marriage to Robert Cheung is still valid, whatever name she used
time. If she has married again, or if she married again in the future
first obtaining a divorce, her marriage would be bigamous. As yet
received no word or apology or explanation from her.
The Lord Chancellor?s department says there has been an increasing
marriages of this kind. A short time ago, one woman was caught clocking
12th marr-iage of convenience in a month, using false names at
register offices. It is all too easily done, without having to
birth certificates or any proof of marital status. Until there is a
the law, it is well nigh impossible for an ordinary person to discover
person they are about to marry has been married before; it is possible to
proof of marriage, but not of non-marriage. There is no note attached
birth certifi-cate entry that would lead to a subsequent marriage or
cer-tificate. It is difficult to look up information unless you already
most of the information you are looking for.
Helen Ventress was alarmed to hear in her home town, Ripon, that Glen
supplied Susan Begbie with her identity had been boasting that there were
more girls who attended the Grammar School at that time whose identity
used in marriages. Helen says ?of course they would never know, and there
way they could look it up or find out until the day they are served with
Civil registration began in 1837, but I am not sure what you mean by "listed
by LDS". If you mean do they appear in the IGI (International Genealogical
Index), then generally, no. There are some that have been submitted by
fellow researchers, but your expectation of accuracy should be kept low on
If you mean can you look up civil registrations through the LDS, then
generally, yes. Your local LDS Family History Center can assist you in
looking these up, but you would still have to send off for the certificate
to get any detailed information.
If you mean is there some way to look it up on the web, then maybe. The IGI
does cover some parish registrations that continued after civil registration
began. There is also the FreeBMD project, but they only have a small
percentage available online as yet. They are at http://freebmd.rootsweb.com
From: Brian Hope [mailto:email@example.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 4:34 AM
Subject: Register Office Weddings
I am fairly new to the "tracing" business and still
learning. I am finding the information and humour on this list very
interesting. Can some kind person answer a query about Register Office
Weddings? I have received a Marriage Certificate for 1852 at Stoke Damerel
Register Office. I would like to know when Register Office Weddings started,
and would any be listed by LDS?. Thanks in anticipation.
I have returned to the list after many months away. I haven't been very
successful with my own research, however, I have learnt a lot. I am
hoping that if I explain the problem I am having with my ggrandmother's
maiden name someone can help with possible avenues to explore.
(1) Ggrandmother first appears on her first marriage cert. to William
GRIMES as Hannah EROTY (Oct.1876) - her father is Joseph Eroty,
Musician. and X marks the spot for her signature (unable to write I'm
(2) Ggrandmother's second marriage,to George WILLIAMS (Oct 1892)lists
her name as Annie Grimes with her father as deceased and his name as
Joseph Eruth (at least that is what it looks like).
(3) I have her listed in the 1881 Census as birth place London - 1858)
yet I can't find any reference to her birth.
(4) Her maiden name has been spelt two different ways - Eroty / Erotti.
She was a Hawker at the time of her death which occurred at home - 26
Clowance Lane, Devonport
I would really appreciate any suggestions of where I should look from
here. The name Eroty is supposed to have been Italian, but when I ask
in that direction people almost fall about laughing, or, I get peculiar
I am a member of the Devon Family History Soc. but have mislaid my
membership No. Perhaps a watching member would kindly look up my
details if they wouldn't mind contacting me direct about that.
Here is my new website on my Hooper ancestors, many of whom were in Exeter,
Devonshire through the 1800's and before.
Please send along ANYTHING which might be of interest. Thank you
A Richard BAKER m. Mary STEDDIFORD on March 23 1794. They were born about
1768, he was born in the Bishops Teignton area not sure where she was born.
Any connections. There children Richard m. Agnes Leach, Mary ? , Sarah m
Samuel Winsor and James m. Mary Palmer. There must be someone out there
looking for one of these names. Is there a web site which has records of
what others have been looking for?
Robert Baker BAKER/STEDDIFORD/PALMER in Bishopsteignton,Devon; JOY/BULT in
JEFFRYES/ARROWSMITH in Bethnal Green-LONDON
BROWN/CHAPMAN in WEST Hackney-London
DOLL/Bretten Germany/ McGUIRE in Ireland
REYNOLDS/WEES in Norwood/P.E.Co,ONTARIO,CAN.
Hello Brian, and all,
General registration of Births, Marriages and Deaths began in England and
Wales on July 1st 1847, and that is when Register Offices began (of course).
Not all births were registered at first, so even though you know of a birth
from a PR after that date, registration of births only became compulsory in
1875. Presumably it was possible to marry in Register Offices from the
beginning in 1847.
Doreen in S.W. Scotland
GOONS #1950 ONS name NORTHMORE/NARRAMORE
also STANAWAY; SPURRELL; GRIBBLE; FOWLER; POTTER;
PASH. All in Devon/Cornwall
YORKSHIRE researching HEWSON; COCKSHAW; DRIFFIELD;
HALLEY; HOLDERNESS; BIRKINSHAW; GLASBY;
Have indexed the first two journals of John Wesley (of Weslyian fame) and
have available A - B surnames and villages/places mentioned within them.
I am able to look up and pass on any information that may be in the journals
from the lists below, please be patient, it may take some time. Please
give name and volume no when sending requests thanks.
I will post E onwards once the rush if any has slowed down. If you believe
that others on other lists may be interested please forward on the info.
If anyone has a better idea on how to make this information available please
Tracy Harris harriset(a)webscene.com.au
A - Vol I
Acourt Bristol, London 1740
Annsely, Dr 1739
Arnolds, Mr Leipsig Holland 1738
Augustines, Walter plantation "Americas" 1736
Arieus, Benjamin " "
Andrews, Mr " "
Aglionby, William " "
Adams, Mr Osmotherley 1745
Armsted, B London
A - Vol II
Abbot, Edward Sandhutton 1755
Adams, George bur 26/11/1746
Adams, Rev Thomas Falkirk 1755
Alwood, William Stockton 1759
Anderton, Mr Northwich 1747
Andrews, Mr (Mrs) Seend 1749
Arran, Earl (the seat of)
Arvin. Mr London 1751
Austin, Mr (John) Cork 1749 (1759)
Atkins, Thomas Newgate London 1748
Armstrong, Mrs Wickham 1752
B Vol I (#Vol II)
Beard, Thomas Durham d. 14/8/1744
Borlase, Dr Redruth 1744/1745
Bate, Jane Wakefield 1745
Bate, Arthur (husband of Jane) " 1743
Basil, Susanna Baptist-mills 1741
Bray, Mr # London 1739/40/46
Bray, Dr Americas 1736/7
Beecher, Alderman Newgate London 1740
Beon, John (alias John Darcy) Bristol 1740
Bell, Mr # London 1740/46
Bowes, Mr # " "
Bowes, Ms " d 6/5/1741
Bissicks, Thomas Kingswood 1741
Bedford, Rev St Antholins 1738
Bohler, Peter London 1738/41
Bohler, Mr sen Frankfurt 1738
Boughton, Mr Blendon 1738
Brarkhausan, Dr Amsterdam 1738
Brown, Mr 1738
Brown, John Fanfield-leigh (lower-spen) 1743
Brown, Molly 17444
Blow, William # Grimsby 1743/46
Bull, Colonel Americas 1736
Bradley, Mr " 1736
Bennet, John (Minister) # Lanest Trewint 1744/1745
Brecthaupt, Proffessor of Halle d. 1736
Bovey, Miss Beckey d 10/7/1736
Bovey, Miss Margaret Americas
Be(r)linger, Mr " 1736
Bathurst, Sir Francis " 1736
Baddily, Mrs London death of son d19/0/1747
Ball, Roger Dublin 1746 & 1750
Bamfield, Elizabeth d 18/12/1750
Barlow, Mr Plymouth 1747
Barnadison, Sir Nathaniel
Barry, Colonel Rathcormuck Ireland 1749
Bateman, Rev Thomas London 1747Baxter, Rev
Baynes, William Kingwood (fire) 1757
Beauchamp, Anne Cork Ireland d 20/8/1753
Bedders, Ephraim London 1753
Behem, Jacob 1746
Bend, Mark France/Holl? d oct 1746
Bennett, Rev Tresmore 1748
Bennett, Edward Sheffield (death of son-in-law d 1757
Bennet, John Woodley/Hayfield 17481755
Beresford, Miss Judith Ashbourne 1755/56/57
Berridge, Rev John Bedford 1758
Bladcon, Ruth Brestfield
Bland, Mr London 1746
Blencowe, Mr 1752
Bolton, Rev Robert
Bonner, Bishop Hackney
Booker, REv Dublin 1752
Booker, Mr Rosemead Ireland
Booth, Elizabeth Woodseats
Booth, Johnathon (father of above) "
Bosomworth, Adam Sandhutton 1755
Bosworth, John Oxford d Mar 1746
Brandon, John Leicester 1757
Briant, Jane Tetherton 1750
Brooke, Mr T Thirsk 1747
Brown, Mr Savannah (Americas) 1746
Brown, John Newlands 1747/49/59
Burgess, Jane (James) Kingswood 1757
Burnet, Thomas Cork Ireland 1749
Butler, Nicholas Ireland (Cork) 1749
Butts, Francis London d 12/12/1748
Butts, T Bristol
Vol I ( *if in Vol II)
Abergavenny Wales *
Argyle, Fort "
Alatamahaw River "
B Vol I (* = Vol II)
Back-lane - Bristol
Baptist-mills " *
Bay of Biscay
Bradford Yorkshire *
Bradford Wiltshire *
Builth * Wales
Brecknock # (or Becon) Wales
Beaufort (Port Royal) Americas
Barnard Castle * Ireland
Bury St Edmunds
I am fairly new to the "tracing" business and still learning. I am finding the information and humour on this list very interesting. Can some kind person answer a query about Register Office Weddings? I have received a Marriage Certificate for 1852 at Stoke Damerel Register Office. I would like to know when Register Office Weddings started, and would any be listed by LDS?. Thanks in anticipation.
I am looking for some assistance in tracking down Thomas BURNETT. This ancestor has listed "Teynmouth" as the place of his marriage to Anna PACKER in 1848. I would be so grateful if someone could help me to confirm this fact, and maybe help us find out if this was their home town, or where they happened to get married?
Russell and Robyn Roberts
It isn't often you get to check up on a researcher, but recently I did, and
I found mine severely lacking. I am therefore in need of a new records
agent for Devon and Cornwall, and I am turning to you for a recommendation.
It's either that, or pot luck with the ads.
Thanks in advance,
This is off topic,for which I apologise, but will perhaps
interest those,especially from overseas,who are planning a trip
to the UK,including London.
Last evening I saw the London Eye which is the name given
to an enormous new ferris wheel (technically not a ferris wheel
as they are supported like the forks on a bicycle whereas this is
like a very modern racing wheel and is supported on one side only)
which has been raised on the south bank of the Thames near
Waterloo station and the South Bank Arts Complex. It is by far
the largest wheel in the world(dwarfs the big one outside Vienna)
and is a Millennium project sponsored by British Airways.
The constructors are in the process of bringing the cabins for passengers
up-river to be installed. I can't recall how many cabins there will be
but each will be a huge glass pod holding 25 people who will be able
to move around within the pod. The wheel will take 30 mins to make
one complete revolution and will load/unload without stopping. It will
be a spectacular addition for the sightseer to view London.
The original idea is the Eye will only be in situ for 3 years or so but most
people seem to feel it will be like Le Tour Eiffel in Paris,which was also
intended to be only temporary. It is truly spectacular and I was goggle-eyed
when I saw it. I think a ride is supposed to cost about 7.50 GBP(± 12 US)
which I don't think is expensive for such a thrill.
John Overholt,CIP als"not sure I have the courage for the ride"
Kingston upon Thames,Eng.
Hi, My name is Maryann and i am a new member to the list and like all doing family tree need some assistance.
I am searching for anything on John Tibbs and Jane Arscott.
This couple was married in 1815 Exeter Had a child Amelia in 1816 do not know any more about her. They had a son in 1822 who died in 1823. Then another son John Arscott Tibbs who was born in 1825.
Jane died a month after this birth. J A Tibbs Married and came to Australia in 1847.
On the 1841 Census there is an elizabeth aged 25 living in the house. No nothing about Her. John the father died 1846 and was a Dyer.
The family gossip was that John A was one of four Children?
All information was found in LDS records.
Any information on the family would be most appreciated.
Australia Email Address is: rwallace(a)itfusion.com.au
Perhaps(tongue in cheek)
If you land on TAUNTON, collect two gallons of clotted cream.
HINTON FAMILY HISTORY RESEARCH
(Searching for HINTON(Cuddesdon)OXF,APPLETON(Durham)
All of the above in UK,& Brisbane,Queensland.
From: Ros Haywood <haywood(a)clara.co.uk>
To: DEVON-L(a)rootsweb.com <DEVON-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Sunday, 31 October 1999 7:06
Subject: Re: Genealogy Monopoly Board
>I think it's a great idea - so great, perhaps you'd better check it
>hasn't already been copyrighted - if not, quick, copyright it yourself!
>I know there's a "Star Wars" version of Monopoly - a "Devon" version
>would be great!
>I am not researching in exactly the same geographical area of Devon as
>you, so I don't really dare to suggest any suitable place-names - but as
>for penalties etc, how about:
>Go to Cornwall, go directly to Cornwall/somewhere, do not pass Plymouth,
>do not collect hard-earned research"
>An anonymous lister, afraid of death threats from Cornish people...
>From: Diana P. Statt <roman(a)ieway.com>
>To: DEVON-L(a)rootsweb.com <DEVON-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>Date: 28 October 1999 04:23
>Subject: Genealogy Monopoly Board
>>My daughter is studying genealolgy and games in her gifted students
>>She just told me tonight that she has to make a game out of her
>genealogy research, and I thought it would be fun to make a monopoly
>board based on places and aspects of research.
>>My research centers around Chagford, Tavistock, Exeter, Torquay and
>Plymouth, so suggested surrounding place names would be appreciated as
>well as possibilities for penalty terms, etc.
DAVID LISTER wrote:
> After claiming the rights to cream teas, I see someone is now claiming
> treacle mines for Devon.
> Every Lancastrian knows from the writings of Professor Ken Dodd that
> Treacle Mines, were just around the corner from THE Jam Butty Mines,
> Knotty Ash, on the outskirts of Liverpool.
> So lets hear no more claims from Devon.
> David, in Lancashire.
G'day David, Sorry to upset you but when I lived in Devon as a
young lad, ( god, that was a long time ago ), he told me that there was
a Treacle Mine just out on the edge of Dartmoor, and on the way out to
it, in Crownhill, there was a factory that made hammers for left handed
people. As you know, fathers never tell lies!!!.
Nr. Launceston, Tasmania.