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Darlene:
I don't believe I have additional information for you. I remember reading
about Thomas Colbert falling from a horse several years ago. At that time I
was tracing a Colbert family that originally came from Wake County, NC and
settled in Elbert County, GA after the American Revolution. There were
several members in that family who were named Thomas. The progenitory of the
Wake County Colberts was Nicholas Colbert. He was a Baptist minister before
he died.
However, I don't know for certain if your Thomas was related to his family or
not.
Rick Colbert
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Rick,
My gg-grandfather, Thomas Colbert, was the Methodist minister who died after falling from a horse. Do you have additional information on his line? I have some information on his line, but not much before him that I can document. Would be glad to share with you. Darlene
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2nd msg for marti:
I also only have one Clyde W. Colbert
and he is in Indiana again Happy hunting!!!
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Msg for Marti:
I have no Painters, and only one Mary Ellen Colbert but not in
Ohio sorry.
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I am looking for some information on my great great grandmother, Mary Ellen Colbert. She was born, we believe in Virginia and married a James Painter(born:Va). My great grandmother Alice Painter was born in 1879. She had a sister Minnie. Interestingly enough I remember I have a great Uncle named Clyde Whalen of Ohio. Does anything connect with what you know? Thanks, Marti
Bob:
I have a question that might invalidate my last e-mail. When did William and
Abigail move to Limestone County? Was it after the Red Sticks War?
Rick
P.S. How did we get on the board re: Colberts of Columbia, GA?
Bob:
My address has changed. It is 229 Silver Creek Parkway, Montevallo, AL.
35115 (Actually, I live in Alabaster, but the post office in Montevallo
delivers my mail). I would appreciate a copy if it's not too much trouble.
Otherwise, I can try and get it from the address you sent. What was the name
of the article in the book and its page numbers?
I think one of the reasons why the Dawes Commission and the Chickasaw Nation
dismissed the claim was because Humady and Isaac Williams were only children
at the time this took place. Until I became interested in genealogy, I
couldn't tell you who my second cousins were, much less have information on a
person who I wasn't related to. When Abigail married William Stinnett, 1812,
the Williams boys would have only been eight or nine years old. And then
they would never have seen her again. I don't know if my memory will be that
good when I'm 92 or 93.
It's a shame someone from the Colbert family couldn't vouch for Abigail. If
Clement went to all that trouble to get the Williams boys, why couldn't he
find a Colbert to collaborate what they said?
The Chickasaws in war stayed together. They would not have separated and
joined the Kentucky militia. When George Rogers Clark fought in the
northwest campaign, there was a William Colbert who fought with him. This
William Colbert was white.
There is something else you might wish to consider. At the time of Abigial
and William's marriage, Alabama was in the middle of an Indian war. Red
Sticks, mostly Creek and a few Cherokees, were raiding settlers up and down
Alabama. What do you think the reaction would be if you were a Limestone
County resident and you knew your neighbor was married to a Creek? Wouldn't
there be some comment in Limestone records books about this?
It was in July of 1812 when the Red Sticks War began. The Creeks were armed
by the British and the United States was at war with England. It was Andrew
Jackson who later fought the Red Sticks at Horseshoe Bend. Don't you think
Limestone residents would make some kind of public announcement regarding
Abigail if she were an Indian? Either to oppose William Stinnett for
marrying an Indian, or for supporting him. What do you think?
Rick
Rick,
Apparently I jhit the wrong key on my new computer (I am not used to the key
board yet) and sent you an unfinished message. I will try to conclude it.
I was in the precess of writing that perhaps your research on the William
Willliams family will indicate whether Humady Williams and Isaac Williams,
who cliamed to have known the Chickasaw Colberts and Abigail Stinnett were
related to William Williams, the Chickasaw trader connected to James Logan
Colbert and the Colberts of North Carolina.
You may want to get copy of the JAIFR article directly from the owners at
Histree, P.O. Box 687, Lawton, Oklahoma 73502. Or I can send you a copy. Is
your address still the same as listed in your NCGSI article?
With respect to research on the white Colbert family of Limestone, no one
else in my family, to my knowledge, is doing genealogical research on Abigail
Colbert or the other Colberts in the area.
Abigail's date and place of birth are in some doubt. Different documents
indicate she was born in the mid 1790's in either Kentucky or Virginia.
General William Colbert was in both areas at times in the mid 1790's -- on
his trips to St. Clair's and later Wayne's armies and still later on his trip
to Philadelphia to meet with President Washington. Documents in the Spanish
archives as well as the writings of James Robertson indicate that William's
wife(s) often traveled with him, even to war. (Jessie Moniac Colbert was with
him and pregnant for part of his trip to see President Washington. She
reportedly went as far as Southwest Virginia.) So Abigail being the daughter
of General William Colbert cannot be ruled out by the data available to me on
his travels at the approximate time and reported place(s) of Abigail's birth.
Nor can it be proven.
On the white Colbert family in Limestone County, I still have research to do.
If the information on Abigail being born in either Kentucky or Virginia is
correct, I need to locate Colberts there at the likely times of Abigail's
birth. I am in the process of gathering information on the Colbert families
in each state as I seek to find any possible links between James Logan
Colbert and those Virginia and Kentucky Colbert families and as I seek
information to support or refute the correctness of the reference in the
Draper papers to General William Colbert being at the masacre at River
Raisin. (A William or Willis Colbert, a private in the Kentucky militia, was
wounded in the battle of January 18 and captured in the battle of June 22.
But I do not know if he was the Chickasaw or one of the several white
Colberts who joined Kentucky militia in the war of 1812.)
At the likely times of Abigail's birth, the area which is now Limestone was
claimed by the Chickasaws and Cherokees, and was not known to be inhabited
by the whites, except possibly the French traders whom James Robertson routed
in his expedition to Coldwater, near the Muscle Shoals.
My search for the facts of Abigail Colbert Stinnett's and her father William
Colbert's ancestry goes on. Whether or not her Stinnett descendants were
accepted by the Chickasaw Nation as members of that Nation in the 1890's, I
am seeking to determine conclusively if she was born full blood or mixed
blood Chickasaw a hundred years prior to that time.
Like you, I have found much conflicting information on James Logan Colbert.
However, I have not run across any evidence that refutes the testimony of
persons who swore under oath during the Dawes Commission process that Abigail
Colbert Stginnett was the daughter of a Chickasaw by the name of William
Colbert, except for the contention in the Lure and Lore of Limestone County
that she was a Poindexter possibly from Williamsburg, Virginia. That
undocumented lead resulted in a ten year wild goose chase through documents
related to the Poindexter family. Now I am working on the hypothesis that
Abigail was, at least, part Chickasaw (and possibly part Creek, if she was a
daughter of General WIlliam Colbert's wife Jessie Moniac).
As with your research on the possible ties between James Logan Colbert and
the Colbert family of Peachtree Island, North Carolina, I am seeking to
identifhy and analyse the various possible connections and determine the
most logical based upon the available information. The combination of sworn
testimony by contemporaries who claim to have known both the Chickasaw
Colbert and the Stinnett families and a U.S. Court decision is a pretty
strong basis for the working hypothesis, I think.
Bob
Rick,
Yes, I still believe it. I also believe your points are well taken. It
appears to me that are two different issues here:
(1) Did the Stinnett applicants meet the criteria for Citizenship in
the Chickasaw Nation, based upon compliance with the laws of the Nation, and
(2) Did the Stinnent applicants prove descent from the Chickasaws?
From a genealogical standoint, I am interested only in the second. I clearly
do not meet the criteria for being a citizen of that honorable Nation, even
if my ancestor Abigail Colbert was the daughter of the Chickasaw Bill
Colbert. It is not the status, but the truth I am seeking.
According to the JAIFY article, the master who filed his report on January
23, 1897, was W. H. L. Campbell. The date of the decision of the United
States Court, Indian Territory, Southern District, favorable to Clemon Clay
Stinnett in Clemon Clay Stinnett v. Chickasaw Nation was February 1, 1898.
The Hon. Hosea Townsend was the judge.
Among the persons who reportedly testified on behalf of the Stinnets were
"Humady Williams, 92 years old, born in the Chickasaw Nation. . .interpreter
for the whites and Indians on several occasions at Stonehill. . well
acquainted with the Colbert family. . ." and "Isaac Willliams, 93 years old;
born in the Chickasaw Nation. . .acted as interpreter for the Chickasaws and
whites. . .well acquainted with the Colbert family. . .". Perhaps your
research on Chickasaw indian trader from North Carolina, William Williams
gives some indicatin of whether Humady and Isaac were related to William,
since all three
Bob:
I must admit I have never read the "article" you mentioned in The Journal of
American Indian Family Research. And I would love to see it. The book is
not in the Birmingham library.
However, an "article" in a book does not have the same weight as the "Law" or
the Dawes Commission. You said the "master" found proof. Who is the
"master"? You also wrote that the "report" was written on Jan. 23, 1897.
The Dawes Commission reviewed Clement Clay Stinnett's application and Mary
Elizabeth Stinnett's application and rejected them both in February, 1897.
AND they had an opportunity to review the information that the "master"
provided.
Application 92, which was later resubmitted as 155D, was filed on Sept. 30,
1896 by Clement Clay Stinnett.
To the Honorable Dawes Commission:
Ex parte: Clement Clay Stinnett et al
Now comes the Chickasaw Nation, by its Attorneys, and respectfully excepts to
the application filed herein, and says that the same is INSUFFICIENT in law.
WHEREFORE, It prays that the said application be DISMISSED.
Second: For special exceptions, the Chickasaw Nation respectfully shows to
this Commission that the evidence produced by the applicant is insufficient
to show ANY claim of citizenship in the Chickasaw Tribe of Indians.
WHEREFORE, It asks that said application be DISMISSED.
Third: For further special exception, the Chickasaw Nation says that the
application is insufficient in that it shows that the application has not
complied with the laws of said Nation, and, therefore is not entitled to any
of the rights and privileges as a citizen.
WHEREFORE, It prays that said application be DISMISSED.
And Appeal was granted, but it was rejected. In the appeal, the material
that the "master" said proved Abigail Colbert was a Chickasaw was received by
H.M. Jacowz, Jr., Secretary to The Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes on
Feb. 5, 1897.
Then Mary Elizabeth Stinnett et al, reapplied her application on Feb. 6,
1897. It was originally Application #91, but reapplied as 159D.
To the Honorable Dawes Commission
Ex parte: Mary Elizabeth Stinnett et al
Now comes the Chickasaw Nation, by its Attorneys, and respectfully excepts to
the application filed therein, and says that the same is INSUFFICIENT in law.
WHEREFORE, It prays that the said application be DISMISSED.
Second: For special exception the Chickasaw Nation respectfully shows to
this Commission that the evidence produced by the application is INSUFFICIENT
to show any claim of citizenship in the Chickasaw Tribe of Indians.
WHEREFORE, It asks that said application be DISMISSED.
Third: For further special exception, the Chickasaw Nation says that the
application is insufficient in that it shows that the application has not
complied with the laws of said Nation, and, therefore, is not entitled to any
of the rights and privileges as a citizen.
WHEREFORE, it prays that said application be dismissed.
The Chickasaw Nation
There is an old saying in genealogy: You may find a document (article) that
does say exactly what you want it to say, but that document may still be
wrong. Every time you find a seemingly usuable record, you are still
obligated to prove that what it says is true -- via the prerponderance of the
evidence."
Census records state that Abigail Colbert was born in Kentucky. And the
Dawes Commission and the Chickasaw Nation rejected the claim that Abigial
Colbert was a Chickasaw. To me, that's pretty conclusive.
You mentioned in your previous e-mail that you still had family that lived in
Limestone County. Did they ever check out the Colbert family that was living
there? Records show that Thomas and Elizabeth Colbert were in the Probate
Record books between 1824 and 1834. Has anyone checked them out to see if
they were related to Abigail?
You also said in your e-mail that you had "no reason to doubt the
accuracy...in the Dawes Commission records." Do you still believe that?
Rick
Rick,
Thanks for your note.
If you have not had the opportunity to read the Dawes Commission and U. S.
Court records I previously cited to you, I think you will be very interested
in the considerable testimony and findings. According to an article in The
Journal of Americanj Indian Family Research, Vol. 5, No. 3 (1984) :
In his report of January 23, 1897, the master found that " The proof
estsblished the fact that Abigal Colbert was a Chickasaw Indian and resided
with the Chickasaws in the State of Mississippi; that Abigail married William
Stinnett, a white man, and that the applicant, Clement Clay Stinnett, is the
grandson of Abigal Stinnett and a one-fourth Chickasaw Indian."
The U.S. Court "ordered, adjudged, and decreed that Clemon Clay Stinnett
and his Children. . .be placed upon the rolls as members of the tribe of the
Chickasaw Indians and citizens of the Chickasaw Nation, with all the rights
and privileges thereto i anywise belonging."
I have reviewed as much information as I have been able to find on other
William Colberts in Alabama (such as the genealogy of the William Williams
Colbert family of NC, GA, AL, and MS, as well as the Dawes Commission records
for the Cherokees and I know of no reason to doubt the accurace of the
master's and U.S. Court's determination in the Dawes Commission records.
As to my interest in James Logan of Pennsylvania, your May 94 article is
encouraging, in that you stated:
"According to the COLBERT family tradition, a man named "James LOGAN"
was the grandfatther of James Logan COLBERT." . . .
"The Caldwells and Logans had originally come from Pennsulvania before
migrating to Virginia and North Carolina." Although I have no indication that
the James Logan from Pennsylvania you mentioned was the same person who was
Secretary to William Penn, the persons could be of the same family.
A couple of more bits of information from your work of interest to me are:
(1) You wrote of "Benjamin CUTHBIRTH (also known as CALBERT/COLBERT) .
. ." I am pursuing leads that Colbert may have been French as well as
Scottish, descended from the original Scottish Cuthbert family, which
included Barons named James Colbert and George Colbert.
(2) You also wrote "The OTTAWAYS are believed to be related to the
RUFFIN and COLBERT families of Virginia and North Carolina". According the
Alabama Census and Limestone County Court records, William and Abigail
Stinnett named a son "Ruffin". Perhaps just a coincidence, perhaps a name to
honor some one not necessarily related (several of their sons were named for
famous persons), or perhaps a family name related to either the Stinnetts or
Colberts.
Thanks again for your prompt response to my earlier e:mails and the
information and suggestions.
By the way, I noted from your articles that, at least, in 1994 and 1995 you
resided in Birmingham, Alabama. I was born there and I still have close
relatives in St. Claire and Limestone County.
Bob Cole
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I am researching Robert and Cathrine Colbert who moved to Johnstown, Pa in the middle 1800's. I show a marriage record in Shenadoah Co Va. for Robert Colbert and Cathrine Peer November 19, 1846. If anyone has any knowledge of either Robert or Cathrine before this date, I would appreciate your sharing this information with me.
Bob:
I gave copies of "The Colberts of Franklin County, North Carolina" to my
relatives, but I do not intend selling it to the public. It deals strickly
with the descendants of Thomas Colbert of Plumtree Island, of his moving to
Halifax County, and then to Bute/Franklin, and where his descendants went to
after that.
As I mentioned earlier, there is no record that Abigail Colbert Stinnett was
related to William Colbert or any of James Logan Colberts sons. The only
documentation that is mentioned is in the Dawes Commission.
If you examine the records of the Dawes Commission, you will see that it was
created to protect the Indians living in Oklahoma from "encroaching" white
settlers who wanted Indian land. In 1896, there were only 6,000 Chickasaws
living in Oklahoma, but there were 150,000 whites who were "squatting" on
Chickasaw land. Whites were trying to take land from the Chickasaws anyway
they could, even by claiming they were Indians themselves. The Dawes
Commission proved that 99% (exaggeration) of whites who claimed to be Indians
were lying. The only thing they wanted was the land they were squatting on.
If you really want to find out who Abigail Colbert is, I suggest you do
research on the Colbert family that lived in Limestone County, AL. There are
deeds, wills, and court records with the Colbert name. Before you get your
hopes up on being a Chickasaw, check these records first.
With regards to James Logan of Pennsylvania, I do not believe he is directly
related to JLC or his family. There was a James Logan living on the Roanoke
River approximately ten miles from Plumtree Island. I believe he may be the
grandfather of JLC. In other words, JLC's mother's last name was Logan. It
was a tradition to name a son after a grandfather;i.e., James Logan Colbert's
grandfather on his mother's side was James Logan.
That tradition is in my family as well. John Pinnell Colbert -- grandfather
John Pinnell
Levi Wells Colbert -- grandfather
Levi Wells
Sincerely,
Rick
Rick,
Thank you for the information in your last two notes.
I have now read your very interesting and important articles "James Logan
Colbert of the Chickasaws: The Man and the Myth" in the North Carolina
Historical Society Journal. One of the foornotes references your work "The
Colberts of Franklin County, North Carolina". I would be interested in
reading that and any other works by you on the Colberts or Chickasaws. I
would, of course, be willing to purchase the works.
I am impressed with the thoroughness of your work, your extensive
documentation, and your approach of tracing known associates to help fill in
the missing information.
One set of information you included at various points but did not document or
give sources for was Colbert family tradition. Have you written anything on
the various beliefs of the descendants of James Logan Colbert on his
ancestry? If so, I would be very interested. (I have almost nothing to
contribute here, because my recent ancestors did not even know of the
Chickasaw connection, only that a Stinnet ancestor was an Indian. So, the
first two questions I researched were which ancestor and which tribe.)
My interest is two-fold. As a descendant of Abigail Colbert Stinnet I have
been doing family genealogy. Second, as a former high school history and
government teacher, I became very interested in the Chickasaws and the mixed
blood family that was so much a part of the history of not only the tribe but
the young United States. For the last several years I have focused my
research on Chief and General William Colbert and his father James Logan
Colbert.
I have sought to identify the source of the "James Logan" name. I have been
unsuccessfully, to date, seeking possible links to the James Logan who came
to Pennsylvania with William Penn in 1699 as his secretary and was engaged
with the Northwest Indians. That James Logan's family may be connected with
the James Logan discussed in your article.
By the way, although I have not sought information on any tri-racial ancestry
of the Colberts, I have been interested that documents I have reviewed
include references to Abigail as being very dark and to William's brother,
Chief George Colbert, as being quite light. My initial hypothesis has been
that those traits would be consistent with the Colberts being either Scots or
French (or both) and the Mother of Abigail possibly being Jessie Moniac, a
mixed blood Creek and half-sister to Alexander McGillivray.
Please let me know how to obtain copies of your other published or public
works.
Thank you.
Bob
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My husband is related to the Colberts also. I am willing to share what information I have with whoever needs help. He is related to Jesse Sr's son Humphrey. My email is steve7(a)onlyinternet.net. I am also looking for information that would fill in some blanks. Anything and everything is appreciated.
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I have some information on Jesse and Frances I am willing to share with anyone that needs help. My email is steve7(a)onlyinternet.net.
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I've been trying to find my great grandmothers parents names and have had no luck. I would be thrilled if some one could help me. Her name was Salina Colbert, she was born 14 Feb 1894. She married Callie Cunningham. Any info would be great. Thanks so much.
Rebecca
kyra3812(a)bendnet.com
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Hi,
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The email address that RootsWeb has for the COLBERT list admin
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is bouncing, so RootsWeb is looking to make contact with the list
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maintaining this list and please reply quoting this message.
List members there is nothing for you to worry about and nothing for
you to do, it is probably just an email problem for the person
looking after the day-to-day management of this list. Rest assured
that this does not mean that your list is in danger.
Thanks!
Andrew Billinghurst, RootsWeb Staff
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