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In a message dated 99-06-28 10:00:08 EDT, you write:
<< I need to get up to Nash County one day and check things out. I live in
Greenville - only about an hour away - so I really don't have an excuse.
I've heard there is a Cockrell Crossroads up in Nash County - maybe
somewhere around Nashville, but I don't know the cemeteries where any
Cockrell's are buried - do you??
>>
Hi Killian,
No I don't have much Nash County information. I wanted to visit the county
some years ago when we were in the archives, but just didn't have the time.
I believe I have some land deeds that say that John C. Cockrell lived on the
Tar River, but I will have to look up the deeds to see if I can give you any
details on where our ancestors lived.
Tom Green
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Tom -- I got this message through some of the Stice family. Could you please
post it to the Cockrell net and see if anyone can help or give me information
to get back to this family?
Thanks,
Jan Stice Bush
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From: "Stice, Katherine" <kstice(a)chmc.org>
To: "'Jan Stice Bush'" <CBush82566(a)aol.com>
Subject: FYI - a message posted on the Western Kentucky mailing list
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:24:47 -0700
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Subject: Re: WEST-CENTRAL-KY-D Digest V99 #156
> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:01:52 EDT
> From: Mcken101(a)aol.com
> To: WEST-CENTRAL-KY-L(a)rootsweb.com
>
> In a message dated 6/25/99 12:21:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> WEST-CENTRAL-KY-D-request(a)rootsweb.com writes:
>
> << LEITCHFIELD KY >>
>
> does anyone know the Cockeril family of Leitchfied? I heard this line is
the
> only line that spells the name this way. My children carry this name but
> since it is the name of my EX husband I wasn't going to search it but my
> children have asked nicely for help. I know my ex father in law was Coy
> Cockeril and supposed to have many brothers. Most, like Coy, moved to
> Louisville. Can anyone give me some help to start? What nationality is the
> name itself?
>
> Pam Carroll
Kathy Stice
Administrative Secretary
Cardiac Catheterization Laboratory
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Hello,
This will had to be probated. Hopefully the courthouse still has the Probate
records. In those each child must be named as part of the procedure for
naming the heirs. Also the deeds will be part of the proceeding since they
will have been reassigned by the court. Therefore the deeds will be in two
courts.
The other thing that may be in another group of court records would be the
records for the guardianship of any minor children. These are often
overlooked in research but are a valuable genealogical find. In some cases
the children are released upon marriage and a spouse is named. This package
will most likely make the connection between parents and children. Watch the
names of witnesses for family members. Many are more than just neighbors,
they are the family of the wife. Once the census is checked against the list
of names found you have the beginnings of quite a find.
While a torn paper may signify a loss of information, and it may not. Paper
was not as available as today and nothing was ever wasted. Perhaps the other
part was used for something else? An original may have notes of something
seemingly unrelated on the back. Folks did things like that in earlier
times.
Congratulations on a great find! Thanks Tom for posting the data.
Bella
In a message dated 6/28/99 7:12:16 AM Central Daylight Time,
kytrace(a)worldnet.att.net writes:
> Fellow Researchers,
>
> Thank You Bill for sending me a copy of the John S. Cockrell Will of 20
> February 1809, Fayette County, Ky.
>
> The Will is obviously been torn with some ( probably important)
> information deleted.
> Below is how I read the Will.
>
> Being in perfect senses and viewing it necessary to direct my Executor
> and Executrix hereafter to be named do hereby Publish this my last Will
> and Testament. First it is my wish after all just dues are paid that
> all my personal estate be divided between my wife Catherine Cockrell and
> my children as the law directs. Secondly it is my desire that the tract
> of lands whereon I now live which I purchased of Thomas Frank be sold at
> public sale on the credit to meet I discharge the lands for the aforing
> (Torn Paper) to the aforesale Thoams Frank, the surplus to be divided as
> above directed. Lastly, I do hereby constitute, ordain and appoint
> Edmond Bullock Executor with my wife Catherine Cockrell Executrix to
> execute and singular execute my estate my leasings of every kind
> whatsoever, in Witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal this
> 20th day of February 1809
>
> Signed John S. Cockrell Seal
>
> Signed and sealed in the presence of
>
> John Hartley (Unsure)
> James Whaley
> Robert Nichols
> James G. Hardin
>
> Fayette County October Court 1809 This last Will and Testement of John
> S. Cockrell deceased was produced in court and provincly ?? the oaths
> of James Whaley, Robert Nichols and James G. Hardin subscribing
> witnesses thereto and ordered to be recorded
> Att: JD. Young, Clerk
>
> This Will is by John S. Cockrell and he appoints Edmond Bullock and his
> wife Catherine Cockrell to execute the Will.
> He seems to have some more land holdings than those specified in this
> document. He refers to leasings that were not specificly identified as
> to whom they may be leased. This would be income that would be divided
> between Catherine and his children.
> John S. does state that the lands he bought from Thomas Frank would be
> sold at public auction to pay his IMMEDIATE debts. A review of the
> deeds around 1809 may prove both this and the above land assets. If
> this was the only document he would be leaving his wife and children
> without funds. This was clearly not the case.
> One thing to remember is that John S. died sometime BETWEEN Feb and Oct
> of 1809. The court did not meet every day as is the case now, they met
> only quarterly. These two documents are the Will and intorducing it to
> the Court as a valid document.
> Documents that may exist:
> 1. Deeds or other land transactions: These may be found in pre-1809
> court records
> 2. Document of Sale of Lands as stated in the Will: The land that
> John S. Cockrell purchased from Thomas Frank was to be sold at public
> auction on the Courthouse steps of Fayette County. A document should
> exist stating purchasher and price.
> 3. Document signed by Executor and Executrix stating that the terms of
> the Will had been meet and verified by the County Clerk.
> 4. Anyone could have sent the Will into probate and that would have
> affected the final desolution date.
>
> This was a very good document in that it can prove that John S. Cockrell
> had a wife named Catherine. He states that he has living children as of
> Feb. 1809. He states that he lives on lands that he purchased from
> Thomas Franks. We also know that he died between Feb and Oct of 1809.
> With a little more work and a little luck we could get lucky and find
> his childrens names.
>
> Tom Cockerel
Fellow Researchers,
Thank You Bill for sending me a copy of the John S. Cockrell Will of 20
February 1809, Fayette County, Ky.
The Will is obviously been torn with some ( probably important)
information deleted.
Below is how I read the Will.
Being in perfect senses and viewing it necessary to direct my Executor
and Executrix hereafter to be named do hereby Publish this my last Will
and Testament. First it is my wish after all just dues are paid that
all my personal estate be divided between my wife Catherine Cockrell and
my children as the law directs. Secondly it is my desire that the tract
of lands whereon I now live which I purchased of Thomas Frank be sold at
public sale on the credit to meet I discharge the lands for the aforing
(Torn Paper) to the aforesale Thoams Frank, the surplus to be divided as
above directed. Lastly, I do hereby constitute, ordain and appoint
Edmond Bullock Executor with my wife Catherine Cockrell Executrix to
execute and singular execute my estate my leasings of every kind
whatsoever, in Witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal this
20th day of February 1809
Signed John S. Cockrell Seal
Signed and sealed in the presence of
John Hartley (Unsure)
James Whaley
Robert Nichols
James G. Hardin
Fayette County October Court 1809 This last Will and Testement of John
S. Cockrell deceased was produced in court and provincly ?? the oaths
of James Whaley, Robert Nichols and James G. Hardin subscribing
witnesses thereto and ordered to be recorded
Att: JD. Young, Clerk
This Will is by John S. Cockrell and he appoints Edmond Bullock and his
wife Catherine Cockrell to execute the Will.
He seems to have some more land holdings than those specified in this
document. He refers to leasings that were not specificly identified as
to whom they may be leased. This would be income that would be divided
between Catherine and his children.
John S. does state that the lands he bought from Thomas Frank would be
sold at public auction to pay his IMMEDIATE debts. A review of the
deeds around 1809 may prove both this and the above land assets. If
this was the only document he would be leaving his wife and children
without funds. This was clearly not the case.
One thing to remember is that John S. died sometime BETWEEN Feb and Oct
of 1809. The court did not meet every day as is the case now, they met
only quarterly. These two documents are the Will and intorducing it to
the Court as a valid document.
Documents that may exist:
1. Deeds or other land transactions: These may be found in pre-1809
court records
2. Document of Sale of Lands as stated in the Will: The land that
John S. Cockrell purchased from Thomas Frank was to be sold at public
auction on the Courthouse steps of Fayette County. A document should
exist stating purchasher and price.
3. Document signed by Executor and Executrix stating that the terms of
the Will had been meet and verified by the County Clerk.
4. Anyone could have sent the Will into probate and that would have
affected the final desolution date.
This was a very good document in that it can prove that John S. Cockrell
had a wife named Catherine. He states that he has living children as of
Feb. 1809. He states that he lives on lands that he purchased from
Thomas Franks. We also know that he died between Feb and Oct of 1809.
With a little more work and a little luck we could get lucky and find
his childrens names.
Tom Cockerel
In a message dated 6/28/99 11:25:04 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
KILLIANP(a)MAIL.ECU.EDU writes:
<< Tom-
Do you have pictures of the tombstones of John C. Cockrell and Nancy Anne
Winstead? I'd love to see them if you could e-mail them to me. I too descend
from John C. Cockrell.....through his son Joesph Jacob Cockrell.
Thanks,
Garrett Killian >>
Hi Garrett,
No, sorry, but I don't know where either are buried for sure. I understand
that John C. Cockrell is buried in Nash County, North Carolina, and Nancy
Winstead is buried in Alabama. Maybe someone else on the list has pictures.
Tom Green
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Jan,
The best resource for Marshall and his children is Irv Cockrill. He is a direct
decendant of Marshall. He has a webpage that I have already reviewed. It does
not show a Marshall Eugene. His URL is
http://web.missouri.edu/~haediwc/family/index.html
I have his email address as haediwc(a)showme.missouri.edu. I have not talked to
him in quite awhile. I suggest that you do what you can to get in touch with
him. I really did look at all the information I have on Platte Co. and James and
his family. Good luck. Let me know what you find. From what I see someone
definitely has it incorrect.
Tom
CBush82566(a)aol.com wrote:
> Tom -- It has been a long time since I contacted you, but have some new
> information that I would like to bounce off of your data base. I have been
> searching through the many Stice/ Cockrell connections trying to make some
> sense of them.
> James Cockrell had three children who seem to be very involved in this
> connection. Schrilda was married to my great grandfather Phillip W. and her
> sister Harriet now appears to have been married to Lewis Franklin, an older
> brother of Phillip's. I know that Frank died and that she then married a
> Joseph Ashley (abt 1853). In the 1850 census from Edmonson County, Rebecca
> Stice, the widow of Phillip and mother of Phillip W has another Philip F
> living in her home. This child appears to be a grandchild by age and I have
> several photos that link him to my grandfather and his brother in Washington
> State around the turn of the century. Through a decendant of Philip F. I
> have documented that his father is listed on his death certificate as Frank
> so feel pretty confident about that one. Now to add to the links of the two
> families, Philip F. had a daughter Daisy who was married (either KS or MO) to
> a Marshall Eugene Cockrell(birth unk but death before 1900). In
> correspondence with Velva Hall, she has Marshall as the son of Morgan
> Cockrell - a brother of Schrilda and Harriet. I am a little concerned about
> some of the dates and also that she has the Morgan's wife as Malinda and I
> have Morgan's wife as Clarice. Do you have any information on Morgan and if
> this could possibly be the right link for Marshall Eugene?
> Appreciate any help you can give or other places to look for more
> documentation. (The decendant of Philip is checking the archives as she has
> direct access in Seattle when I am over three hours away from an archive
> location. )
> Thanks --- Jan Stice Bush
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In a message dated 6/21/99 1:11:54 PM !!!First Boot!!!, jobaby(a)airmail.net
writes:
<< TB,
I am attaching the pictures. I scanned them together. The third picture
didn't show up very well. (There was too much shadow on it to be clear.)
[Image]I will type in the data on all of them here. I will also paste an
outline to let you know where she fits in. This is my first try at inserting
a picture in an email. Let me know how it did.
Joan Cockerell Wooten >>
Hi Joan,
Thank you for sending all the information on Ann Cockrell Richardson! I
finally got home and downloaded your pictures. I only have AOL 4.0 on my
home computer due to a lack of space on my portable. I got the two pictures
of the tombstones, but the third is lost somewhere in cyberspace!
I am sure you are aware that John C. Cockrell, Jr. was the son of John C.
Cockrell, Sr. born about 1756, who married Nancy Anne Winstead, born about
1758. I descend from his son, Archibald "Baldy" Cockrell and his wife Selah
Pridgen. You know, I'm sure, that Baldy was the brother of John C. Cockrell,
Jr.
Thanks again,
Tom Green
In a message dated 6/27/99 2:11:31 AM !!!First Boot!!!, jlbakin(a)swbell.net
writes:
<<
My dad was Lee. He had six brothers, Charles, Everett, Fred, Bill,
Hargrove and Gus. I have three older brothers, Lee Roy, Larry and
Phillip. We all used to go to the Breckenridge reunions, did you?
I don't know how old you are, so I don't know who you might know, but my
brothers are from 53 to 43 years old. I am 32. Anyway, I don't
remember many people, but we usually went. Do you know or have you ever
heard of our part of the family?
It goes back from dad to Samuel Walter, to John Alexander, Arch, and you
know the rest!
I grew up in Paint Creek, which is an hour North of Abilene. I lived in
North Carolina from 1993 to 1996 in Jacksonville, while my husband was
in the Marines. If I had only been interested in genealogy then, I
passed through Nash County a dozen times. We have been back in Abilene
since then and have a two year old boy.
Anyway, it is nice to meet you! If you plan to go to the reunion this
year, I plan to go. I haven't been in a really long time.
Luann >>
Hi Luann,
Yes, I attended the Breckenridge a couple of years ago after meeting Perry
Cockerell, your cousin in Ft. Worth. Perry and his cousin Ed Cockerell, the
lawyer in Abilene had hired a professional genealogist to tract our
ancestors, and I got Perry to allow me to copy what documents he had obtained.
I have a great picture of John Alexander Cockerell, born May 21, 1847 in
Mississippi. He was the oldest child of Arch and Mary Minerva Hitson
Cockerell. As you know, he had a ton of children, and the picture shows all
of them. I forget which of your cousins gave me the picture, but believe it
was Rayford Cockerell. Your grandfather, Sam Cockerell is shown in the
picture, and I am sure you would enjoy having a copy if you don't already
have a copy.
I hope to attend the reunion this year, and look forward to meeting you.
Best Regards,
Tom Green
Hello,
I have been reading a new book entitled THE SOURCE from Ancestry.com that
came with my subscription this year.
There are so many things in there I did not know and so many ways to find
things that my head is going crazy. I want to charge out and try so many of
them right now! I can recommend this book as good reading for the serious
researcher. It helps with those simple things and the more complex ones as
well. Since the problem of court records comes up so much these last couple
of years some of us know more from experience than others of us do. I am
still hunting for my first real criminal case. There are suggestions for how
to locate those records in the book. Even great lists of Index books for
major collections of court records and other research projects.
There are several great chapters on ethnic research as well. The African
American is not the only area either. There are chapters on the Native
American research, Jewish ancestry, Hispanic ancestry to name a few.
I especially like the chapter on Newspaper research. Recently my family of
cousins have a talent for locating obituaries. Well, now I can see there are
more than obituaries and marriage announcements to find in there. This book
also tells how to find what newspapers covered the area where the family was
last known to be. There is an entire collection of books listed that index
these things. This is another way to add a bit of local history to that
otherwise dry section of the genealogy when they just woke up every morning,
worked the farm, ate regular and went to bed every single day. I enjoy
reading the ads about things like the latest innovation in washing machines
and seeing a picture of a shiny new wringer washer. Or perhaps a new dress
that is cut with a high neckline and the skirt reached mid calf. Men's suits
in three piece with a hat. Or those hot car ads. How about a roadster or a
model T advertisement?
There is much more in this book and I am still reading.
Must run
Bella
Dear Tom and List,
Sorry the below letter was sent from wrong E-Mail before:
Hello List and Julie,
I have been following your list for little while and thought I was
probaliy out of your area of researce. My Grandmother was a Cockerill born
in Brisbane, Queenland. Australia in 1904 . In the last few years she has
lost her eyesight, and I was hoping to link up with someone and prehaps
press her lineage back a little futher. Her father was Albert Victor
Cockerill born May 25, 1877 in Nerang, Queensland, Australia,
married to Thethis Rebecca Guy born Aug. 7, 1904 in Brisbane, married on
Sept. 19,1903. Albert died in 1905 leaving my Grandmother an only child.She
and her mother came to the USA in 1908.Albert's father was Benjamin
Cockerill born Jan.13,1843 in Sydney ,married to Cecila Lewis on Dec.
29,1869.Now the Question is, is Benjamin's father John Cockerill born abt
1806 married to, I believe ,to Anne Heap in 1829 the same as Julie's John
Thomas Cockerell married to Jane Manuel in 1843.
John's birthplace was Haslinden, Lancs. England.
Grandmother's hair and eyes were both dark.
Look forward to reply,
Larry Whitlock
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Hello List and Julie,
I have been following your list for little while and thought I was
probaliy out of your area of researce. My Grandmother was a Cockerill born
in Brisbane, Queenland. Australia in 1904 . In the last few years she has
lost her eyesight, and I was hoping to link up with someone and prehaps
press her lineage back a little futher. Her father was Albert Victor
Cockerill born May 25, 1877 in Nerang, Queensland, Australia,
married to Thethis Rebecca Guy born Aug. 7, 1904 in Brisbane, married on
Sept. 19,1903. Albert died in 1905 leaving my Grandmother an only child.She
and her mother came to the USA in 1908.Albert's father was Benjamin
Cockerill born Jan.13,1843 in Sydney ,married to Cecila Lewis on Dec.
29,1869.Now the Question is, is Benjamin's father John Cockerill born abt
1806 married to, I believe ,to Anne Heap in 1829 the same as Julie's John
Thomas Cockerell married to Jane Manuel in 1843.
John's birthplace was Haslinden, Lancs. England.
Grandmother's hair and eyes were both dark.
Look forward to reply,
Larry Whitlock
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Subject: Re: [COCKRELL-L] Having Fun
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Tom,
My grandmother was a Cockrell ....Hester Cockrell who married Thomas Forshaw
in Savannah, Ga.c. 1910. Her father was James Cockrell. I am having no luck
on Family Tree Maker. Can you help me? I am told the Cockrell family
originated in Reidville, Va. Somewhere I have some documents....but I have
not been able to find them since I moved.
Thanks,
Bess Forshaw
--------------D7EC7D685478547EB3C3AE43--
Hester Louisa Cockrell b-27 Aug 1890 married Thomas Forshaw in Savannah Ga.
Hester's father was James Cockrell and her mother was Mary Agnes Hobson, b-22
Dec 1848. Hester had a brother John Carlton Cockrell b-1884. The above
James Cockrell was married first to Rebecca Gentry, b-14 Jan 1828 and d-1877.
Mary AGnes Hobson was James' second wife. I have Littleton Cockrell b Va.
and Elizabeth Tignor Haynie as the father and mother of James Cockrell.
Jack
Group,
We had a good thread going for a while concerning what our ancestors
looked like. The sampling was small and would very much like to hear
from others. It would appear that Cockrells share a dark complexion,
with light eyes and dark or red hair.
As with any survey their are exceptions but this fits what has been
presented. With more sources of information we can make a better
judgement.
For those that would like to post in response to this or any message
just send an email to cockrell-l(a)rootweb.com. All that is left is to
say what you would like to say.
As a reminder to all participants we are a nice friendly group.
Spelling and grammer are not important. We just like to hear from you.
If you would like to send you family line that would be nice but not
required. You may just have a question that to would be acceptable.
You can say or ask anything on THIS list except to ask for money for
your research. This does not mean that you should not expect to be paid
for cost of procuring documents, coping costs and postage.
As I have stated before, this is your list and only gets better when
people use the list.
Tom Cockerel List Manager
Kytrace(a)worldnet.att.net
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Return-path: MiMiQuinn(a)aol.com
From: MiMiQuinn(a)aol.com
Full-name: MiMiQuinn
Message-ID: <cf9b628c.24a03c79(a)aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:10:17 EDT
Subject: Re: [COCKRELL-L] Something different
To: kytrace(a)worldnet.att.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13
Hey Tom and List,
This could be very interesting. What a good idea!
My grandmother Gray was the Cockrell. My father's mother. She had light brown
hair and blue eyes. My father had dark brown hair and blue eyes. This is the
funny part, daddy was married before my mother and had a child. She has dark
brown hair and brown eyes. My sister and I,also. This stepsister,my sister
and myself all have children. The kids all look so much alike they could
belong to any of us. That had to come from daddy's side.
Mary Margaret
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Subject:
Cockrells in Ohio
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 18:06:56 -0600
From:
"cockrell" <cockrell(a)bigsky.net>
To:
<kytrace(a)worldnet.att.net>
Tom,
Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, I would like to join your list.
Please
include me. If you could read any of my message, I am looking for the
Cockrells that were a part of the founding of Deleware Co. in Ohio in
the
mid to late 1700s. I am looking for the parents of Edward Cockrell , b.
1794, Centervillage, Deleware, Ohio and married to Ann Titus, b. 1797
also
in Centervillage.
Gary Cockrell
Bill,
At the end of the will it should show a date of execution of the will. As Bella pointed out final execution would be
after an inventory of all assets, title searches for properties, payments of all debts owed and then a dillusion of
the responsibility of the executors. Should a problem exist then it could take much longer.
I agree that making small progress is more helpful and rewarding rather than waiting or wanting everything to "fall
in your lap". Family research has been defined as a puzzle, a long road leading no where, frustration, and
patience. It requires the knowledge of what is available, where to find it, understand what you have found, fit it
into what has been found before, and determine the next step. One must have the patience of a "sneak thief" and the
resolve of the Pope.
Tom Cockerel
"Willliam P. Rice" wrote:
> Yes Tom, I am familiar with the old English S which looks much like an F.
> However, this S is a stand alone plain S. I don't have a scanner but I
> will be glad to copy the will and send it to you. You should get it in a
> few days. After reading it, tell me what conclusion you come to. I
> think we are dealing with two different John Cockrell's and are mixing
> their families. Don't know where to find his children. The Census's
> won't list them till about 1840 but if he died in 1809............ I did
> use the word probate but should have used recorded, I guess. It is OK to
> assume that when they record the will (in this case 1809) that the person
> has died? Of course, my goal is to find out all I can about Janet
> Cockrell; who her parents really are; where she really came from; when
> and where she died. First, I guess I must sort out these families.
>
> Regards, Bill Rice
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:34:45 -0400 kytrace <kytrace(a)worldnet.att.net>
> writes:
> >Bill,
> >
> >It appears that you know more than I do. Thanks for the information.
> >If you have a scanner could you send me a
> >copy of the will that you mentioned.
> >As far as the "S" goes I would have to see the document. The old
> >English "S" is is often confused. That is some
> >very good work.
> >Wills were often written early and not at the time of death. This
> >happened more often in wealthy families. That is
> >the reason that researchers should not assume that a will date is the
> >time of death but look at the time the will
> >was executed to be closer to the exact date. At that time it is
> >usually mentioned that so-or-so died XX-XX-XXXX.
> >You mentioned probate/recorded. If the will was probated that would
> >mean that someone may have contested the will
> >and therefore the execution of the will would have been held up until
> >a judgement was made. If it was recorded that
> >means that execution was completed and should have mentioned the names
> >of the executors.
> >A scanned copy could provide me with the information that I would need
> >to help with the death date.
> >For everyone in the group my address is:
> >
> >Tom Cockerel
> >140 Springlake Ct.
> >Louisville, Ky. 40229
> >502-957-1343
> >
> >If you have any information that you would like me to review just mail
> >a copy this way and I will give you my
> >assessment. If you have the ability to scan then send anything to my
> >email address. I am only requesting this on a
> >voluntary basis. I like pictures and have started a new link to my
> >webpage with pictures of Cockrells. If you have
> >a scanner you can send it to my email address with a little
> >explaination and I will include it to this page.
> >
> >Tom Cockerel
> >
> >
> >Tom Cockerel
> >
> >Tom Cockerel
> >
> >"Willliam P. Rice" wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Tom. Since writing, I may have solved the problem. I have
> >> obtained the will of John S. Cockerell of Fayette Co. Ky. His will
> >was
> >> written 2/23/1809 and probated/recorded in Oct 1809. His will does
> >not
> >> mention any children but mentions his wife CATHERINE - NOT NANCY OR
> >ANN.
> >> I don't think he is the same John Cockrell from Loudoun Co. Va.
> >because I
> >> have his death listed in Aug 1819!!! Of course, he could of lived
> >till
> >> 1819 after his will was recorded in 1809 I guess. Was his middle
> >initial
> >> "S"?????? The Catherine Cockrill who married Issac Rice on
> >8/6/1804 in
> >> Fayette Co. Ky does not appear to be the daughter of John Cockrell
> >and
> >> Nancy Ann Chilton of Loudoun, Co. Va. Instead she is the daughter of
> >John
> >> S. Cockrell and Catherine_________! The Catherine Rice you may be
> >> thinking of from Bourbon Co. Ky is probably Catherine Hill Rice who
> >was
> >> the daughter of my John Rice Jr. She married John William Fox Sr.
> >in
> >> 1852. He was a prominent school teacher in Bourbon Co. Ky. What
> >do
> >> you think??????? Regards, Bill Rice
> >>
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> On Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:11:46 -0400 kytrace
> ><kytrace(a)worldnet.att.net>
> >> writes:
> >> >Bill,
> >> >
> >> >It could be but as you say there may not be any supporting
> >> >documentation. Breathitt County was once part of
> >> >Estill County. As you know their was a Cockrell family, Simon and
> >his
> >> >bunch, in the very early 1800's. It is
> >> >only a short ride from Breathitt County to Montgomery County, Ky.
> >> >Montgomery County is one of those counties in
> >> >which the courhouse was burned during the Civil War. Many early
> >> >records were, of course, lost.
> >> >My memory is not what it once was but I seem to remember a
> >Catherine
> >> >Rice in Bourbon County. Again, all these
> >> >counties are very close and moving from one to another was not that
> >> >much of an effort.
> >> >Again, I will look through my records and see what I can come up
> >with.
> >> > Have you "talked " to Earl Luloff? I
> >> >believe he knows the Rice and Hainline families. Earl, if you are
> >> >monitoring can you assist again?
> >> >
> >> >Tom Cockerel
> >> >
> >> >"Willliam P. Rice" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Tom: Thanks for your reply. Replies to my initial query on the
> >> >Cockrell
> >> >> rootsweb were varied. No one had Janet Cockrell listed as a
> >> >daughter to
> >> >> John Cockrell and Nancy Ann Chilton. However, I believe, some
> >> >just
> >> >> added her to the family because of my query. I know there were
> >> >Cockrells
> >> >> in VA and KY but I have no evidence that John S. Cockrell and
> >family
> >> >> moved from Loudoun Co., Va. to Fayette Co., Ky. The Charles
> >Blair
> >> >> Tavenner papers of Loudoun Co. Va. list 208 Cockrells. A John
> >> >Cockrell
> >> >> is listed but has no initial S. The entry says he moved to
> >> >Montgomery
> >> >> Co. - doesn't say KY or VA. Of course, Montgomey Co. Ky is
> >adjacent
> >> >to
> >> >> Clark Co. Ky. The Tavenner papers also list Janet Cockrell but
> >> >doesn't
> >> >> show her as a daughter to John. The Clark Co. Ky Vital
> >Statistics
> >> >lists
> >> >> the death of Catherine Rice, mentions her parents as being John
> >and
> >> >Nancy
> >> >> Cockrell, born in VA. Also lists her husband as Issac Rice and
> >> >lists a
> >> >> son, James H. Rice. There is no mention of Janet's death or
> >buriel
> >> >> anywhere and she was not listed in John Rice's will of 1844.
> >There
> >> >is no
> >> >> help on the Rice side. I subscribe to the Rice rootsweb and no
> >one
> >> >is
> >> >> following this line. There is information in the Fox papers
> >which
> >> >> suggests Janet Cockrell was from Estill Co. Ky. Could be the
> >same
> >> >family
> >> >> as Montgomery and Clark? Any thing documented on Janet would
> >be
> >> >> appreciated. Regards, Bill Rice
> >> >>
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> On Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:04:05 -0400 kytrace
> >> ><kytrace(a)worldnet.att.net>
> >> >> writes:
> >> >> >Bill,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I have always thought they were sisters. I have some proof here
> >> >but I
> >> >> >will
> >> >> >have to go through stacks to prove it. One thing to remember is
> >> >that
> >> >> >in
> >> >> >1804 there were very few counties. Fayette was a very large
> >county
> >> >> >and was
> >> >> >subquently broken up into smaller counties. Hopefully, someone
> >> >that
> >> >> >has
> >> >> >direct knowledge of the Rice line will respond.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Tom Cockerel
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Willliam P. Rice" wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Hello Tom. I know you are a guru on the Cockrell line so
> >please
> >> >> >help me
> >> >> >> put a problem to bed I have had ever since working on my
> >Cockrell
> >> >> >line.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> My ancestor John Rice married Janet Cockrell on 3 April 1797
> >in
> >> >> >Loudoun
> >> >> >> Co. Va. Her parents aledgedly was John Cockrell and Ann
> >Chilton
> >> >-
> >> >> >but I
> >> >> >> can't prove it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> My John Rice had a half brother named Issac Rice. I have
> >> >evidence
> >> >> >that
> >> >> >> Issac Rice married Catherine Cockrell in Fayette Co. Ky on 6
> >Aug
> >> >> >1804
> >> >> >> with John S. Cockrell signing as surety.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Can you tell me, from your records whether Janet and Catherine
> >> >were
> >> >> >> sisters? Did their family migrate from Loudoun Co., Va. to
> >> >Fayette
> >> >> >Co.
> >> >> >> Ky or was there a different Cockrell family in Fayette Co. Ky
> >all
> >> >> >along?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I would be deeply indebted to you if you could help me clear
> >this
> >> >> >up.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Regards, Bill Rice
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >________________________________________________________________
> >> >> >> AT&T Worldnet Members:
> >> >> >> Try Juno Web free for a full month and experience the
> >difference!
> >> >> >> Download your free software today:
> >> >> >http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagt.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> ________________________________________________________________
> >> >> AT&T Worldnet Members:
> >> >> Try Juno Web free for a full month and experience the difference!
> >> >> Download your free software today:
> >> >http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagt.
> >> >
> >>
> >> ________________________________________________________________
> >> AT&T Worldnet Members:
> >> Try Juno Web free for a full month and experience the difference!
> >> Download your free software today:
> >http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagt.
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> AT&T Worldnet Members:
> Try Juno Web free for a full month and experience the difference!
> Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagt.
Group,
Most of the Cockrell people that I know are dark completed, with dark
hair and more light colored eyes rather than dark. I think that we all
would like to know what we share. Do you or your ancestor share this
example? If you care to respond it may be an interesting thread.
Myself, I have light hair but that came from my mother. I have two
brothers and a sister that have dark hair.
Tom Cockerel
Marilyn,
Glad to be of help.
Her name is Flossie McNichol. She was/is a prominent Cockrell researcher. I
have a stack of her papers that I purchased. Haven't gone thru all of them.
MAWGEN(a)aol.com wrote:
> Thanks Tom
> Mary Douglas Howell Gardner mother of Ann Howell Stonemetz is buried in "
> Zion Episcopal Church, Charles town West Virginia, situated in Jefferson
> county formerly in Berkley county Virginia"
>
> Also is there not a McNicol connection to Cockrell family?, Have hunted
> querie which mentioned it. a sister of Mary Stonemetz Cockrell, Catherine
> married a Peter McNicoll
> Marilyn
Bill,
It appears that you know more than I do. Thanks for the information. If you have a scanner could you send me a
copy of the will that you mentioned.
As far as the "S" goes I would have to see the document. The old English "S" is is often confused. That is some
very good work.
Wills were often written early and not at the time of death. This happened more often in wealthy families. That is
the reason that researchers should not assume that a will date is the time of death but look at the time the will
was executed to be closer to the exact date. At that time it is usually mentioned that so-or-so died XX-XX-XXXX.
You mentioned probate/recorded. If the will was probated that would mean that someone may have contested the will
and therefore the execution of the will would have been held up until a judgement was made. If it was recorded that
means that execution was completed and should have mentioned the names of the executors.
A scanned copy could provide me with the information that I would need to help with the death date.
For everyone in the group my address is:
Tom Cockerel
140 Springlake Ct.
Louisville, Ky. 40229
502-957-1343
If you have any information that you would like me to review just mail a copy this way and I will give you my
assessment. If you have the ability to scan then send anything to my email address. I am only requesting this on a
voluntary basis. I like pictures and have started a new link to my webpage with pictures of Cockrells. If you have
a scanner you can send it to my email address with a little explaination and I will include it to this page.
Tom Cockerel
Tom Cockerel
Tom Cockerel
"Willliam P. Rice" wrote:
> Thanks Tom. Since writing, I may have solved the problem. I have
> obtained the will of John S. Cockerell of Fayette Co. Ky. His will was
> written 2/23/1809 and probated/recorded in Oct 1809. His will does not
> mention any children but mentions his wife CATHERINE - NOT NANCY OR ANN.
> I don't think he is the same John Cockrell from Loudoun Co. Va. because I
> have his death listed in Aug 1819!!! Of course, he could of lived till
> 1819 after his will was recorded in 1809 I guess. Was his middle initial
> "S"?????? The Catherine Cockrill who married Issac Rice on 8/6/1804 in
> Fayette Co. Ky does not appear to be the daughter of John Cockrell and
> Nancy Ann Chilton of Loudoun, Co. Va. Instead she is the daughter of John
> S. Cockrell and Catherine_________! The Catherine Rice you may be
> thinking of from Bourbon Co. Ky is probably Catherine Hill Rice who was
> the daughter of my John Rice Jr. She married John William Fox Sr. in
> 1852. He was a prominent school teacher in Bourbon Co. Ky. What do
> you think??????? Regards, Bill Rice
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:11:46 -0400 kytrace <kytrace(a)worldnet.att.net>
> writes:
> >Bill,
> >
> >It could be but as you say there may not be any supporting
> >documentation. Breathitt County was once part of
> >Estill County. As you know their was a Cockrell family, Simon and his
> >bunch, in the very early 1800's. It is
> >only a short ride from Breathitt County to Montgomery County, Ky.
> >Montgomery County is one of those counties in
> >which the courhouse was burned during the Civil War. Many early
> >records were, of course, lost.
> >My memory is not what it once was but I seem to remember a Catherine
> >Rice in Bourbon County. Again, all these
> >counties are very close and moving from one to another was not that
> >much of an effort.
> >Again, I will look through my records and see what I can come up with.
> > Have you "talked " to Earl Luloff? I
> >believe he knows the Rice and Hainline families. Earl, if you are
> >monitoring can you assist again?
> >
> >Tom Cockerel
> >
> >"Willliam P. Rice" wrote:
> >
> >> Tom: Thanks for your reply. Replies to my initial query on the
> >Cockrell
> >> rootsweb were varied. No one had Janet Cockrell listed as a
> >daughter to
> >> John Cockrell and Nancy Ann Chilton. However, I believe, some
> >just
> >> added her to the family because of my query. I know there were
> >Cockrells
> >> in VA and KY but I have no evidence that John S. Cockrell and family
> >> moved from Loudoun Co., Va. to Fayette Co., Ky. The Charles Blair
> >> Tavenner papers of Loudoun Co. Va. list 208 Cockrells. A John
> >Cockrell
> >> is listed but has no initial S. The entry says he moved to
> >Montgomery
> >> Co. - doesn't say KY or VA. Of course, Montgomey Co. Ky is adjacent
> >to
> >> Clark Co. Ky. The Tavenner papers also list Janet Cockrell but
> >doesn't
> >> show her as a daughter to John. The Clark Co. Ky Vital Statistics
> >lists
> >> the death of Catherine Rice, mentions her parents as being John and
> >Nancy
> >> Cockrell, born in VA. Also lists her husband as Issac Rice and
> >lists a
> >> son, James H. Rice. There is no mention of Janet's death or buriel
> >> anywhere and she was not listed in John Rice's will of 1844. There
> >is no
> >> help on the Rice side. I subscribe to the Rice rootsweb and no one
> >is
> >> following this line. There is information in the Fox papers which
> >> suggests Janet Cockrell was from Estill Co. Ky. Could be the same
> >family
> >> as Montgomery and Clark? Any thing documented on Janet would be
> >> appreciated. Regards, Bill Rice
> >>
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> On Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:04:05 -0400 kytrace
> ><kytrace(a)worldnet.att.net>
> >> writes:
> >> >Bill,
> >> >
> >> >I have always thought they were sisters. I have some proof here
> >but I
> >> >will
> >> >have to go through stacks to prove it. One thing to remember is
> >that
> >> >in
> >> >1804 there were very few counties. Fayette was a very large county
> >> >and was
> >> >subquently broken up into smaller counties. Hopefully, someone
> >that
> >> >has
> >> >direct knowledge of the Rice line will respond.
> >> >
> >> >Tom Cockerel
> >> >
> >> >"Willliam P. Rice" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hello Tom. I know you are a guru on the Cockrell line so please
> >> >help me
> >> >> put a problem to bed I have had ever since working on my Cockrell
> >> >line.
> >> >>
> >> >> My ancestor John Rice married Janet Cockrell on 3 April 1797 in
> >> >Loudoun
> >> >> Co. Va. Her parents aledgedly was John Cockrell and Ann Chilton
> >-
> >> >but I
> >> >> can't prove it.
> >> >>
> >> >> My John Rice had a half brother named Issac Rice. I have
> >evidence
> >> >that
> >> >> Issac Rice married Catherine Cockrell in Fayette Co. Ky on 6 Aug
> >> >1804
> >> >> with John S. Cockrell signing as surety.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can you tell me, from your records whether Janet and Catherine
> >were
> >> >> sisters? Did their family migrate from Loudoun Co., Va. to
> >Fayette
> >> >Co.
> >> >> Ky or was there a different Cockrell family in Fayette Co. Ky all
> >> >along?
> >> >>
> >> >> I would be deeply indebted to you if you could help me clear this
> >> >up.
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards, Bill Rice
> >> >>
> >> >> ________________________________________________________________
> >> >> AT&T Worldnet Members:
> >> >> Try Juno Web free for a full month and experience the difference!
> >> >> Download your free software today:
> >> >http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagt.
> >> >
> >>
> >> ________________________________________________________________
> >> AT&T Worldnet Members:
> >> Try Juno Web free for a full month and experience the difference!
> >> Download your free software today:
> >http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagt.
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> AT&T Worldnet Members:
> Try Juno Web free for a full month and experience the difference!
> Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagt.