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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Author: JoeFlood99
Surnames: Coad, Phillips
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.coad/93.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Dear John
Thanks very much for this, it has helped me update this family. You can see the tree on worldconnect.rootsweb, database "brannelcoads"
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(continued)
I have done more research, and the interesting thing about the COAD or HUMPHREYs is that the family used both names. Thomas was in fact christened Thomas VMPHRY 1604, son of Thomas, and married Katherine Rawling 1637 as HUMPHREY. His first child was "Coade or Humphrey" his second Thomas HUMPHREY, and the next four were COAD, including Walter 1642. Walter married Jane about 1665 (we believe), and had a family called COOD in Stithians, leading to the Perran Coads. (He appears to have been influenced by the Coodes in Stithians as his children had rather similar names to John and Blanch Coode 80 years earlier)
Thomas III married Ann about 1665, and his children were christened HUMPHREY in Constantine. These included Samuel 1669 and Nicholas 1673. Now here is the tantalising prospect. What if this were Sam Code/Cood who married Grace and founded the Crowan line? Up till now there has been no candidate at all.
========================================
So why was Thomas II known as "Coade or Humphrey"? During my research into the origins of the Maddern and the Tonkin families, I found several examples of these double names in the late 1500s. It is often related to the change from the patronymic system to the surname system.
Up to maybe 1550 the majority of Cornish men had no surnames but were known by their father's name (as in many parts of the world at present). The English wished to enforce the Norman concept of surname as their grip increased on the Cornish, but for 50 years or more there was considerable confusion. In the late 1500s we had examples such as John Thomas Maddren, son of Thomas Maddren, son of Maddren Cosens. On his tombstone it has written John Maddern alias Thomas.
My interpretation of "Thomas Coade or Humphrey" therefore is Thomas of the COADE family but really the descendant of Humphrey". Now in 1574 Robert Code of Stithians married the widow Aves Richard in Breage (the first recorded CODE activity in the region. She had previously been married to Humphry Richard (Humphrey son of Richard). It is believed Robert died without heirs, so it is not beyond reason that if she already had a son Thomas who was adopted by Robert, he would be known as Thomas Code alias Humphrey, or similar; and his son would inherit the double name (sometimes it went on like this for many generations).
There are three or four other examples of "x OR y" as a hereditary name in Constantine in the early 1600s, mostly looking like vestigial patronymics.
The other possibility is that Thomas is an illegitimate child of a CODE and a HUMPHREY. For example, John NANCE or JOABE was the son of John Nance and Christian Joabe; and there are a goodly number of others (Constantine seems to have been quite a hotbed of fornication). [That would normally imply that the male CODE line was preserved]. Howerever, the fathers name was given and not the mothers - which indicates the name is hereditary. His father, Thomas I, might have been the bastard, but how and when this happened is rather difficult to see.
------------------------------------------------
All this is speculative, but it's the kind of thing that can be checked by DNA (since the HUMPHREY line also continued). If we do find that COADs and HUMPHREYs of Cornwall are related, we will know why.
Joe Flood
An elderly Coad descendant called Ed Man has sent me excerpts from a 1987 book called "Stithians families II" by Edward Martin. This book spends about 15 pages giving trees and information for the Coads and Coods of Truro and Morval up to about 1800.
It's great to get some new information and a "fresh" outlook. Mr Martin's book has a few minor errors with dates etc, but where it differs from me on any major matter, it is clearly right. As a result I have corrected one "bad" male and one female marriage. The former is critical and gives a whole new early genealogy for the Perran Coads - and possibly for all the mining families!
Now the first recognised COADE in the mining areas turns up in the IGI as "Elizabeth COADE or HUMPHREY" ch 1638 Constantine, parents Thomas and Katherine. I have been puzzling about this family for a long time, particularly as they come from Constantine where my own COADE ancestors hung out. But I have not taken it very seriously as the line appeared to die out after 1720.
What Mr Martin imputes on p31 is that this line has living survivors - and they are numerous; the Perranarworthal Coads (Walter and Benjamin at least). This is through his grandson Richard 1683, who had families in Feock and Kea. This seems pretty clearcut now and has removed the weakness in the previous tree. The family had more or less continuous occupation in Feock and Perran from about 1720 to well into the 1800s.
What has been a little confusing is that this family used the Norman forenames "Walter" and "Richard" so frequently, exactly like the Elder Codes of Morval - so it was natural to presume they were descended from the royal line of Morval. However other families have also used these names in alternating generations, most notably the Goodes of Whitstone.
So - no royal blood, just a bunch of tinners. But the North Hill and St Stephens lines arent off the hook yet.
(To be continued)
Hi Frank
Guess you saw your results. On 12 markers you differ from the Devon Coads on
only one, which is quite promising. You are vanilla aboriginal West European
like the rest of us, so its not all that hard to get a rough match by
accident. In the circumstances if I were you I would upgrade to 25 markers,
to see if the Coad match was a fluke or not.
For the time being Im putting you in with the Devon crew.
Cheers
Joe
Hi joe
Did we get the same info? I paid for the 37 marker test. They said 13-25 will be completed in about 2 weeks and 26-37 2 weeks after that. I understand an 11 marker match is me and half the world if everyone takes a dna test and as more markers are tested I will move further away from the coads not closer. -frank
----- Original Message -----
From: Coad one-name project<mailto:coad@one-name.org>
To: coad(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:coad@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [COAD] Progress on the DNA study - complexity and the future
Hi Frank
Guess you saw your results. On 12 markers you differ from the Devon Coads on
only one, which is quite promising. You are vanilla aboriginal West European
like the rest of us, so its not all that hard to get a rough match by
accident. In the circumstances if I were you I would upgrade to 25 markers,
to see if the Coad match was a fluke or not.
For the time being Im putting you in with the Devon crew.
Cheers
Joe
-------------------------------
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Dear Joe,
Where do I find the link to the Coad one-name study?
Many thanks.
Sarah Coade Mandell
On Jun 30, 2007, at 9:20 AM, gc-gateway(a)rootsweb.com wrote:
> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
>
> Author: JoeFlood99
> Surnames:
> Classification: queries
>
> Message Board URL:
>
> http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.coad/219/mb.ashx
>
> Message Board Post:
>
> I have posted the DRAFT version of the Coad one-name study onto
> rootsweb in the hope that family researchers will be able to
> confirm or disprove the links it shows. It contains trees which I
> believe to be the most likely given the information I have. If
> someone has better information - I will immediately change the
> trees (and I do so a couple of times a month at present).
>
> I have been rather reluctant in particular to post the tree of the
> "Elder" Codes or Coodes of Morval. What IS known is that they were
> very rich landowners and clergy who had royal connections down the
> female line.
>
> What is NOT known for sure is whether they had any male
> descendants. In fact - I believe I am the first person to say they
> probably did, in the form of:
>
> a) the North Hill; Liskeard/St Ives Coads, and Ohio Coads, probably
> descended from Stephen Code.
> b) various Coads in central Cornwall descended from Rev Gilbert Code
> c) various Coads in West Devon descended from his brother Rev
> Arthur Code
> d) the Coodes of St Austell
>
> One of the main purposes of the DNA study is to see if these lines
> are related or not - since the proof on paper is ambiguous.
>
> So - before everyone starts claiming descent from Edward
> Longshanks, Empress Matilda and Charlemagne - be aware that a lot
> of work needs to be done to prove this, and that you can help in
> several ways.
>
> - by getting more participants for the DNA study
> - by improving the proof for the various links in the paper one
> name study.
>
> Best of luck!
> Joe Flood
>
> Important Note:
> The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If
> you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board
> URL link above and respond on the board.
>
>
>
>
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