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Hello everybody, even though I am still in China, I'm back on the list.
Regards,
Thomas P. Cloyes
Internal Technical Support Lead Engineer
JLG Industries Inc.
Shanghai, China
Mobile 65-9127-0993
China Cell 86-1363-635-2303 (no roaming)
mailto:tpcloyes@jlg.com
http://www.jlg.com
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The information contained in this transmission is confidential. It is
intended solely for the use of the individual(s) or organization(s) to
whom it is addressed. Any disclosure, copying or further distribution
is not permitted unless such privilege is explicitly granted in writing
by JLG Industries, Inc.
Further, JLG Industries, Inc. is not responsible for the proper and
complete transmission of the substance of this communication nor for
any delay in its receipt.
For those interested,
This will hopefully be of special interest to the many female Cloyes
descendants who have previously been unable to directly test their DNA
for Cloyes ancestry. As seen below autosomal DNA testing works equally
well for both women and men.
My paternal grandmother's mother's name was Sarah Elizabeth Cloyse.
This family has used the *Cloyes/Cloyse/Cloys* surname variants rather
erratically over the years.
Last year (2009) I was able to track down a direct line Cloys male 3rd
cousin to me who descends from a *brother* of my gr-grandmother Sarah
Elizabeth Cloyse - the direct male Cloyse line was broken (for my Y-DNA
use) at that point because Sarah, being female, did not carry the
Y-chromosome. Then the DNA break was further widened when her daughter
Susie Asbell married into my Harvey line - thus I do not carry either
the direct Y-DNA signature of the male Cloyse line nor the maternal DNA
(mtDNA) passed only from a mother to her children - with only daughters
capable of passing the maternal DNA on to *their* children.
My Cloys 3rd cousin has now been Y-DNA tested at FTDNA to the 67 marker
level and has also taken the R1b1b2 Deep Clade haplogroup test for good
measure. He is currently defined as being R1b1b2a1b (P312+).
He and another male Cloyes (also tested at FTDNA) have a Y-DNA 34/37
match. Since both have the same surname and are 34/37 matching in Y-DNA
haplotyping, and also in broad haplogroup classification, they are
considered to be closely related from a genetic Y-DNA viewpoint.
These two men also have separate pedigree paper trails that connect
back to ancestral sibling brothers having the same father : namely
James(1) Cloyes b. 1678 in Danvers, Essex Co., MA (Salem Village)
baptised 1678.
Thus, these currently living male descendants trace back to brothers
born in 1707 and 1710, and, consequently, back to the most recent common
ancestor of all - James(1) Cloyes b. 1678 Mass. This is confirmed with
both paper documentation and Y-DNA testing.
Now for the neat part! A female tested by 23andMe lab was reported by
their autosomal DNA program (Relative Finder) to match my test results
at 0.11% : *predicted* 5th cousin : 3rd - 10th cousin range.
She also traces her ancestral pedigree bac to an older sister (b. 1705)
of the two brothers discussed in the foregoing paragraphs and thence to
the same common father - (James(1) Cloyes b. 1678) by means of paper
documentation.
Thus, the connection between this lady and myself turns out to be at a
true paper trail 7th cousin level and is confirmed by our matching
autosomal DNA testing at 23andMe.
Long story short it appears we all have nicely documented and confirmed
proof of being connected back to James(1) Cloyes b. 1678 by means of
standard pedigree documentation as well as by Y-DNA and/or autosomal DNA
testing. A really nice outcome!
Neither of the autosomal DNA testees has the original
Cloyes/Cloyse/Clayes surname today with many male/female/male/etc
interconnections from the early 1700s to the present day when looking at
both lines.
This has really been an eye-opener for me as to the usefulness of
autosomal DNA testing and how it can be used in conjunction with Y-DNA
testing!
I am now really glad that I have always accumulated as much
allied and collateral family information as possible while tracing my
own direct ancestors as it helps greatly in connecting with non-direct
line relatives.
Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) now has their version of autosomal testing
available (*Family Finder* - newly introduced) and I have already
connected with a fellow female descendant of the immigrant ancestor
Obadiah Bowen b. 1627 in Wales and his wife Mary Clifton! This
connection turns out to be at the 9th cousin level - considerably
further back than predicted.
I'll be happy to discuss this further either privately or on list with
any interested folks.
Bill