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Surnames: Ambrose, Babbert, Clover/Clauver, Elswick, Enicks/Enock, Hanson, Heyl, Hicks, Hipshire, Hoffman, Keller, Leslein/Losslein, Lewis, Mack, Mason, Meredith, Mullins, Noland/Nolen, Postle(s), Powers, Reynolds, Shockley, Stone, Willey, Wise, Young
Classification: Query
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Does anyone know of a legitimate document; i.e., (1) Court Birth Record or, (2) ANOTHER authentic Bible record -- that Henry Clover, Sr. of VA; Ross & Franklin Counties, OH, was born on any date other than already documented in the Orin & Chloe (Doherty) Clover family Bible? A Certified copy of the said family page is currently on file at the Ohio Historical Society, 1982 Velma Avenue, Columbus, Ohio 43211. The very clearly written date says: "1 April 1751".
Which computes to 93 plus years of age, at his recorded death date of 1844. His unclear (ravaged by time) tomstone reading has been decifiered as "82" years. If important to prove; is it possible to do an acid test to bring up the date for clarity? Or, does anyone know of preserved records from the tomestone engraver of that era? ... who has made mistakes (which, has been proved) on several other etched stones.
Please contact me direct at: JVTh007(a)aol.com.
Thank you for your kind consideration.
Joanne V. (Lewis) Thomas
8 Generation Clover Descendent
Author, Researcher & Book Critic
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Classification: Query
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There is a mention of a Dobilaitus family in CT in the Clover Family Exchange Newsletter, volume 10 page 20.
1900 Census New Haven, CT ED 491 sh 2 line 17 115 Clover St.
James A. Clover 46 Lithuania
Minnie F. Clover wife 29 Lithuania
John J. son 18 CT
Anna M. dau 17 CT
Anthony son 12 CT
Joseph 10 CT
Minnie dau 6 CT
I suspect that this is the family to which you refer even though the name is not exactly the same. The statement was made that he changed his name to Clover because he lived on Clover Street and thought it was a nice name. I have the name of a relative but do not wish to post it without their permission. If you contact me, I can put you in touch.
June Byrne junebyr(a)aol.com
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Surnames: Cover, Dobilus(us), Daltonaite, Karlowicz, Sheptock (Szeptak)
Classification: Query
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http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/2IJ.2ACEB/91
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Looking for persons related to / having knowledge of Jan Dobilas, who changed his name to John Clover in early 1900's in the Centralia / Shenandoah (Columbia County) of Pennsylvania.
Some of the family moved to NJ, others to the Philadelphia area. Am interested in contacting others, and in searching the family back to Lithuania.
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Surnames: clover
Classification: Query
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http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/2IJ.2ACEB/51.1.1
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Apologies for the delay in replying but we have had a death in the family so haven't done any tree stuff for a while. With regards to "your" Norman Clover - I'm afraid I have nothing to help you. My husband's family are all Midlands based, mostly steepleajcks going way bak, and I don't have any links to London in what I have to date. Have you contacted anyone doing the Clovers in the Suffolk area as a London connection seems more likely there? The name seems to Clover/Glover depending on accent in the research I have so far so it can be confusing!
I have Clover, Reynolds and Young in my tree but No Philip Clover that I can
fine.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: <CLOVER-D-request(a)rootsweb.com>
To: <CLOVER-D(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 6:03 AM
Subject: CLOVER-D Digest V02 #5
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Classification: Query
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As to the Clover line you suggest--I am very sorry to say that it is not correct.
Philip Clover and Mary Cooper had several children, including a son named John. However, according to John's bible record, John's daughter Ellizabeth was born 18 September 1822. She married Clarence Sharp.
Sorry. The bible record was published in the Clover Family Exchange, vol 5, page 9.
Elizabeth Clover who married Joseph Petty is popularly supposed to be the daughter of the John Clover of Perry and Fairfield Counties in Ohio. Unfortunately, I have not yet solved the problem of his origin. But he is not the son of Philip Clover to whom you refer.
June Clover Byrne junebyr(a)aol.com
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Surnames: Petty
Classification: Query
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As to the Clover line you suggest--I am very sorry to say that it is not correct.
Philip Clover and Mary Cooper had several children, including a son named John. However, according to John's bible record, John's daughter Ellizabeth was born 18 September 1822. She married Clarence Sharp.
Sorry. The bible record was published in the Clover Family Exchange, vol 5, page 9.
June C. Byrne junebyr(a)aol.com
Elizabeth Clover who married Joseph Petty is popularly supposed to be the daughter of the John Clover of Perry and Fairfield Counties in Ohio. Unfortunately, I have not yet solved the problem of his origin. But he is not the son of Philip Clover to whom you refer.
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I have Elizabeth Clover 8/15/1808 NJ to 12/27/1881 IL who married Joseph Petty Jr 9/3/1803 to 3/1/1865 IL. Does anyone know, for sure, if her father was John Clover who was a son of Philip Clover and Mary Cooper? And if John was her father could her mother then be Katherine Sharpenstine? Any help would be appriciated, thanks, Pat
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Surnames: Ambrose, Babbert, Clauver/Clover, Elswick, Enicks/Enock, Hanson, Heyle, Hicks, Hipshire, Hoffman, Keller, Leslein/Losslein, Lewis, Mack, Mason, Meredith, Mullins, Noland/Nolen, Postle(s), Powers, Reynolds, Shockley, Stone, Willey, Wise, Young
Classification: Query
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http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/2IJ.2ACEB/77.78.2
Message Board Post:
Debbie: Delighted to hear you have your Creamer family tied down. However, the wife of Philip Clover, Sr. was not ever Elizabeth Shepherd. That myth was totally dispelled, though deligent research with findings coverd in my earlier article written in "The Clover Family Exchange" (while under my ownership); which was proved through the publised family history of Thomas Shepherd the founder of what eventually became known as Shepherdstown, W.VA. See my message (expanded same subject) at this web site "CORRECTION: Wives of Philip Clover" dated 8 June 1999.
From a recent research sojourn -- I do have a maiden name for Elizabeth that I am currently working on in order to be absolutely correct it is the one and same person who became the wife of our progenitor. Results will appear in my current book "Fields Of Clovers", Limited Edition.
Continued good luck in your research.
Joanne V. (Lewis) Thomas
8th Generation Clover Descendent
Researcher and Book Critic
Author: "Postle(s) In America (Early pioneer family who paralleled the Clover families in Franklin Co., Ohio)
JVTh007(a)aol.com
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Surnames: Ambrose, Babbert, Clauver/Clover, Elswick Enicks/Enock, Hanson, Heyle, Hicks, Hipshire, Hoffman, Keller, Losslein/Leslein, Lewis, Mack, Mason, Meredith, Mullins, Noland/Nolen, Powers, Postles, Reynolds, Shockley, Stone, Willey, Wise, Young
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/2IJ.2ACEB/89.1.1
Message Board Post:
Thank you! Am sure that Karen will be delighted to have this information. A posthast reply is much more appreciated.
Joanne V. (Lewis) Thomas
Author, "Postle(s) In America"
Researcher, Book Critic and Past Owner of the "Clover Family Exchange"
JVTh007(a)aol.com
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Classification: Query
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If anyone is interested in the tombstone of Henry Clover, there is a picture on-line, courtesy of Robert Clover. I have gradually been working on a website which will provide a site for pictures of old cemetery stones of various Clover families and early Clovers for all families. This website is in its beginning stages because I am trying to learn a new software program, but it does have a picture of the tombstone in question. The 8 as the first digit of his age at death is quite clear. The URL is: http://members.aol.com/cloverss/Pictures.html [Use capital P in Pictures.]
When I visited the Clover Cemetery near Alton, Ohio, many of the stones were lying in piles. There has been so much vandalism that I do not believe it is possible to be 100% sure where any particular tombstone was originally set.
A responsible genealogist ought to gather together as many sources as possible. When sources disagree, it is necessary to consider the preponderance of evidence. In this case, the 1830 census for Henry Clover, which is the only one in which we can be reasonably sure he appeared, and the 1840 census for the household of Aaron Clover, where he may have appeared, both indicate he was born between 1760 and 1770. All of this is detailed in my article in the Clover Family Exchange Newsletter, Volume 9: 38. Since you are a subscriber, you have this article and may wish to read what I wrote again. Since the censuses, the obituary, and the tombstone all have Henry Clover born between 1760 and 1770, the 1751 birth date cannot be accepted without questioning. I am not personally satisfied that any single date has been proven because any and all of these records are of the type to contain errors. I am still looking for more information.
As to questioning the rest of the bible records, it is a possibility. The bible record was written long after the fact so errors could certainly have slipped in. In my book, Clovers of Franklin County, Ohio: A Study of Henry Clover, His Ancestors and Descendants, I pointed out some other minor questions. I don't personally know if the small descrepancies in dates represent errors in the bible record or errors on the tombstones. I simply record the facts as they appear. I give the following just as one example.
Joshua Clover birth date in bible: 15 August 1789
Tombstone: Died 28 September 1841, aged 52 years, 1 month, 23 days.
[Birth Date from tombstone calculates to 5 August 1879]
I don't think it is very likely that another Henry Clover was born in Berkeley County, moved to Ross County and then died in Franklin County and left no records except a tombstone and an obituary. Perhaps you would like to state some solid evidence in support of that assertion.
June C. Byrne junebyr(a)aol.com
Editor, Clover Family Exchange
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Since you are a subscriber to the my newsletter, the Clover Family Exchange, you may want to check Volume 6 issue 3, page 9 and Volume 5, issue 1, pages 13-14. These two articles by descendants show clearly that Alva Leonard Clover, born 1876 was the son of William Henry Clover of Monroe County, IL.
In the 1880 census, Alva is listed as a son and is living with his parents, in Mitchie, Monore County, IL. Film T9-0237 Page 83B
Henry CLOVER 28 IL Occ: Farm Laborer Fa: IL Mo: IL
Rebecka J. CLOVER Wife 22 MO Occ: Fa: MO Mo: MO
Elnora CLOVER Dau 5 IL Fa: IL Mo: MO
Alva CLOVER Son 3 IL Fa: IL Mo: MO
Arthur CLOVER Son 1 IL Fa. IL Mo: MO
[You will note that Monroe County, IL is just across the river from MO. Consequently, there appears to have been much coming and going.]
I would be interested to see what evidence you have for your suggestion that Alva Leonard Clover was descended from the Barney B. Clover who was born in 1810 in NY and whose parents were born in NY according to the 1880 census. You will note in the 1880 census that Alva's father states that he was born in IL and that both parents were born in IL.
June C. Byrne Junebyr(a)aol.com
Editor, Clover Family Exchange
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Thanks to the many responses that the senior Philip Clover did not have a middle initial of "A"; this issue can be closed out. Therefore, any deed records under the name of Philip A. Clover belonged to junior -- purportedly the son.
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Roberta: I'm very much interested in this Peter Clover. Do you have a birth date for him and where he is buried? ...so, we can compare notes.
Please contact me direct.
Joanne V. (Lewis) Thomas
JVTh007(a)aol.com
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My great grandfather is Norman Clover from London England. My great grandmother is Alice (nee Brushwood) Clover also from England . Im looking for any Information On the name Clover or Glover since we are not sure if they name was changed from Glover to Clover. Please email me if you have any Informatin that would help with the names Clover, Glover or Brushwood
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Since more detail has been provided for the obit -- it is probably authentic.
However, It would be interesting to have the complete data, including the name of the newspaper that carried the obit published here for all Clover descendants to come to their own conclusion and not limit the obvious problem to a chosen few.
As, there are several more scenarios to consider:
(1) There is a space of 10 years between the birth of Henry Clover, Sr., (b. 1751) and his sister Christine (Clover) Ferneau (b. 1761) whereby another child could easily fit.
(2) With that in mind -- is it possible that the obit could have been for another Henry Clover? As it is a well known fact that German families provided their children with a given name, middle name and Christian name, plus the surname. Names that were interchangeably used as a common practice. Could it have been Henry Peter Clover who has been documented as Peter Clover in Berkeley Co., VA at the same time as Philip Sr. and son Henry? Or American Revolutionary veteran William Clover who all served for VA?
(3) The federal census was taken every 10 years -- therefore, anyone arriving between 1840 and 1850, who died between that period of time would not show up.
(4) The Henry Clover gravestone which is referred to, was not located next to "Catherine Clover wife of Henry 30 Sep 1823 55y-4m" (the 2 in the year was underlined indicating the deteriorated condition of the stone) referenced in Vol. 8, p.43 of "Fr. Co., OH Cemeteries". Question: Why wouldn't the husband be buried next to his wife as was the practice of that era?
(5) There were 4 of us who viewed the vandalized cemetery (have a panoramic photograph) in July 1983; who saw the Henry Clover tombstone intact. However, with properly accepted methods of taking a stone reading -- it was impossible to determine beyond any reasonable doubt information displayed on that stone.
(6) If the birth date for Henry Clover, Sr. is being questioned -- why haven't the birth dates listed (in the same hand writing in the Bible) also being questioned for Catherine (Ambrose) Clover and their 12 children?
Joanne V. (Lewis) Thomas
8th Generation Clover Descendent
Author, Researcher and Book Critic
JVTh007(a)aol.com
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The obituary, published 16 July 1847, stated that Henry Clover, born 1763, Berkeley County, Virginia, died 18 June 1847, Franklin County, Ohio..... Seems to me he probably died in 1847. Newspapers can get behind but not THAT behind. Note that the day and month agrees with the broken tombstone.
There is also the problem of the tombstone. It is broken and the death date is not clear. In volume 8, page 44, The Franklin County Genealogical Society published a reading of the tombstone which says Henry died 18 June 1844, aged 82 years. The last digit in the year 1844 is underlined, indicating that the reader could not clearly read this digit of the date. I have looked carefully at a picture of this tombstone sent to me by a subscriber to the Clover Family Exchange Newsletter and can state that the last digit of the date is broken.
The obituary, the tombstone and the census records constitute more than a mere opinion. If anyone out there is following this, let me know and I will be happy to send a copy of the obituary.
June Clover Byrne junebyr(a)aol.com
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The original owner of the Bible (with family data records) was Chloe DOHERTY Clover (1820-1908) and husband Oren Clover (1817-1866) who had a 27 year relationship with his grandfather, Henry Clover, Sr., before his passing on 18 June 1844. Orin, while a member of the "Franklin Co. Pioneer Association" became Vice Pres. representing Brown Twp. The basis for membership was to establish those early families in Franklin Co., OH. Therefore, correctness in dates would have been most important. Further, Oren, appearing to be the family historian would have been the most likely person to receive his grandfather's, well used (if not worn out) Bible that had been applied to daily use in conjunction with his grandfather's devout commitment to the Methodist faith. Ohio and Franklin Co., histories tell us that Henry Clover and Shadrack Postles shared their respective homes for the first Methodist faith meetings held in Franklin Co., thus confirming the Bible's condition and the ne!
ed to transfer family data to the newer one with a frontage plate date of 1861. Oren didn't died until 1866 -- so, without being there to see him actually transferring family data; logic must conclude that those family dates were clearly written in Oren's hand. Therefore, the birth date of 1 April 1751 and death date of 18 June 1844 at the age of 93 years 2 months and 17 days cannot be destroyed by a mere obituary, whereby "some one" provided an opinion left open to human error in translation.
Joanne V. (Lewis) Thomas
8th Generation Clover Descendent
Author, Genealogy Researcher and Book Critic
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I discovered an obituary for Henry Clover six months ago. The obituary stated that he was born in 1763 in Berkeley County, Virginia. Does anyone have any additional evidence on this point? I am interested in corresponding with anyone on this subject. The previously published bible records state that he was born in 1751. This is a very interesting problem which is complicated by damaged tombstone.
June Byrne @aol.com
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Surnames: Clover, Johnson,Bearse, McCoy,Tipton
Classification: Query
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Thank you Joanne, I'll try this again or did you get my first e-mail? My computer is acting up today. My william Henry Clover was married to Rebecca Jane McCoy are we still on the right page. What ever happenes to all that land bought back in !836? Beats me!athank again. Karen in Guthrie, OK