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Robert,
Here are some articles which further address the issue of ethnicity
estimation based on DNA. These show that using DNA from living or
recent people is not sufficient to accurately extrapolate back to
ancient origins, but that ancient DNA is required to do that. The
amount of ancient DNA currently analyzed is small, so the ethnicity
estimates from the various companies are just that -- estimates -- and
these will change as more information becomes available.
Mapping European Population Movement through Genomic Research
http://www.medievalworlds.net/0xc1aa500e_0x00348d15.pdf
Toward a new history and geography of human genes informed by ancient DNA
http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reichlab/Reich_Lab/Welcome_files/PIIS0168...
Tom
On 4/10/2017 12:02 AM, Robert Tremain wrote:
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From: *Robert Tremain <tremain_2(a)icloud.com
>> <mailto:tremain_2@icloud.com>>
>> *Subject: **I will look up our National Geographic report--- the
>> mitochondrial dna should have shown native american- %25- what do you
>> think?*
>> *Date: *April 9, 2017 at 9:57:23 PM PDT
>> *To: *Tremain June <tremainje(a)icloud.com <mailto:tremainje@icloud.com>>
>>
===========================================
Share your Cloud family history here.
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(The Cloud Family Association, Inc. is a non-profit 501-c and was formed
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It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any
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* The Cloud Surname DNA Project : http://mykindred.com/cloud/dna
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I may not have answered that like you wanted.
For you and I to use DNA to find if we have native American ancestry, we
would use an autosomal test as we do not share the same patrilineal line
(have differing surnames) or the same matrilineal line. We would look
to see if both of us had a native American ethnicity estimate. Once
again, just because we don't find anything doesn't mean it's not there,
and if we both had it, it still could mean we each got it from another
line than our Cloud line. It's just a clue -- sometimes a frustrating
clue -- that is added to other forms of research.
If my Y-DNA showed native American, then your Cloud line would also,
since we are descended from the same Cloud line.
If my mtDNA showed native American, it would not be useful to you. It
would indicate native American ancestry in my matrilineal line. The
same thing would be true for your mtDNA -- it would mean your mother,
her mother, her mother, her mother, etc. had native American blood as
would any descendant from that line through the females. If perchance
we both shared a native American mtDNA haplogroup, it would indicate we
were related through some common matrilineal ancestor, but she could
have lived thousands of years ago.
mtDNA is best suited for distant and very distant (ancient) research.
atDNA is best suited for recent relationships. Y-DNA is useful for both
recent and distant relationships.
On 4/10/2017 10:24 AM, Cecil Stokes wrote:
> A few years ago I was working a hypothesis that our ancestor Jeremiah
> Cloud's father had a "second family" in Creek Indian Territory and
> that he, "Our Jerimiah" (c1784 GA - 1861 TX), was part Indian (Native
> American). But, that would have shown up in cousin Tom Cloud's
> mitochondrial data, and it did not. I've noted a lot of other
> hypotheses that various families of Clouds had Native American
> ancestors, but documentation and DNA data reveal only a few, and these
> did not involve ancestry with the Cloud surname.
>
> How about it, Tom?
>
> Cec
Robert,
You wrote " I will look up our National Geographic report--- the
mitochondrial dna should have shown native american- %25- what do you
think?"
You copied your email to the Cloud email list -- that is a public list
and it will be archived and made available to anyone searching the
internet. You may or may not want this level of exposure to your DNA
information, so I will write to you privately in a followup email.
I suggest that everyone reading this consider whether you want your
information shared with everyone before you send an email to any email
forum or before you post to facebook, twitter or a bulletin board, etc.
Back to your question -- Roberta Estes is an experienced genetic
genealogist and has a talent for explaining difficult subjects, so I
refer you to two of her articles on this subject:
Are You Native? – Native American Haplogroup Origins and Ancestral Origins
https://dna-explained.com/2015/05/21/are-you-native-native-american-haplo...
... and since you specifically mentioned mtDNA:
Native American Mitochondrial Haplogroups
https://dna-explained.com/2013/09/18/native-american-mitochondrial-haplog...
I have not tested with the Genographic Project, but I know they list an
mtDNA haplogroup, a Y-DNA haplogroup and I suppose also ethnicity
estimates from your atDNA. If you read Roberta's paper above, you will
see which mtDNA haplogroups come from Amerindian matrilineal ancestors.
I don't believe you will see a percentage estimate given for mtDNA or
Y-DNA. If your mtDNA haplogroup is one of those Roberta lists, then I
believe you can assume somewhere along your matrilineal line was a
native American woman.
If you have not done so, I strongly recommend you transfer your
Genographic Project results to FTDNA. That will provide you with better
matches for genealogy research. The Genographic Project is focused on
anthropology, specifically the origins of people groups, and not on
genealogy. Also FTDNA does the tests for them, so your sample is
already in the FTDNA lab. The transfer gives them the legal authority
to analyze your results for you and to provide you with matches to other
people who have tested with them. It also allows them to store your
sample rather than routinely dispose of it as most other companies do.
(This allows you or your heirs to expand a test without having to retest.)
Percentages, in my experience, are given only for autosomal DNA
(atDNA). These ethnicity estimates should be taken with a large grain
of salt. Your DNA cannot contain contributions from all your ancestors
-- that is mathematically impossible. Also, you will definitely have
ancestors whose contribution is so small it doesn't show up in the
estimate, but you are still descended from them. As with any DNA
evidence, it is a piece of the puzzle and you should use it to find
other pieces.
The best evidence for Amerindian ancestry, in my opinion, is provided by
a Y-DNA test. To do this, you will need to find one or more _direct_
male descendants of that line. Typically this means a male with the
same surname as the line in which you are interested. If this is not
your line, then find a male cousin who is directly / patrilineally
descended from that line.
Genealogy is a hobby and no one is hurt if you think you are descended
from a native American princess (though they didn't have princesses) or
from Genghis Khan, but if you want to know for sure, you will use the
DNA data to assist you in your research and not as an absolute proof.
(DNA can provide "absolute" proof that one person is NOT related to
another if there is no match. If there is a match, it can provide
statistical probabilities of a relationship, but one still ought to
follow the clue provided by the DNA and prove the relationship.)
I wrote an article on genealogical proof that might interest you --
http://mykindred.com/dalton/hoax/genproof.php
Tom
On 4/10/2017 12:02 AM, Robert Tremain wrote:
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From: *Robert Tremain <tremain_2(a)icloud.com
>> <mailto:tremain_2@icloud.com>>
>> *Subject: **I will look up our National Geographic report--- the
>> mitochondrial dna should have shown native american- %25- what do you
>> think?*
>> *Date: *April 9, 2017 at 9:57:23 PM PDT
>> *To: *Tremain June <tremainje(a)icloud.com <mailto:tremainje@icloud.com>>
>>
Tom,
I’m not sure you meant to send this me, Lori Krause. Email lori(a)krauseinc.com <mailto:lori@krauseinc.com>.
I am a member of the Cloud Family Association and have explained that my 2x great grandmother was Leah Alice CLOUD Clark, who was the daughter of Edward ‘Jacob’ Cloud, both of southern Missouri.
I also have been to MyKindred.com <http://mykindred.com/> and appreciate your work.
I am very involved in Facebook and other internet and social media sites for not only personal use but for my genealogy/family history research.
And I hesitate to say this, but I had reached out to this group in the past. You very sharply put me in my place because I didn’t ask my question appropriately. I can’t remember exactly what the issue was, something about how my question came though the server, or text vs. html. I’m not the most tech savvy so I asked my husband, who is a Chief Technical Officer of an International Corporation to explain what you were asking or needing from me, and he had no idea what you were talking about. A new researcher, it certainly has made me hesitate to ask for help from anyone. I’ve continued my research on my own, I’m sure ‘recreating the wheel’ so to speak.
Lori Krause
> On Apr 3, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Tom Cloud <tcloud(a)rev17.com> wrote:
>
> Lora,
>
> Welcome to the rootsweb Cloud family email list. Unfortunately, there is almost nothing happening on this list as it seems everyone has either gotten too old or has gone to facebook or twitter. You can find the Cloud Family Association facebook page from their web site link below.
>
> *Please tell me how you fit into the Cloud family*. I maintain the http://MyKindred.com web site as well as the Cloud Family Association <http://cloud-assn.org> web site.
>
> May I suggest you join the Cloud Family Association -- I believe it is $25 a year and there are opportunities for you to receive the Cloud Family Journal as well as to attend the bi-annual Gatherings and we would love for you to submit articles about your family ancestry to the Journal.
>
> sincerely,
> Tom Cloud
>
> On 4/2/2017 7:41 PM, mailman-bounces(a)rootsweb.com wrote:
>> Lora cloud <lorahartmancloud(a)yahoo.com> has been successfully
>> subscribed to CLOUD.
> ===========================================
> Share your Cloud family history here.
> Join the Cloud Family Association
> http://cloud-assn.org
> (The Cloud Family Association, Inc. is a non-profit 501-c and was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud family. Membership is open to anyone with an interest in any Cloud family.
> It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any commercial enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
>
> * The Cloud Surname DNA Project : http://mykindred.com/cloud/dna
> ===========================================
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Lora,
Welcome to the rootsweb Cloud family email list. Unfortunately, there
is almost nothing happening on this list as it seems everyone has either
gotten too old or has gone to facebook or twitter. You can find the
Cloud Family Association facebook page from their web site link below.
*Please tell me how you fit into the Cloud family*. I maintain the
http://MyKindred.com web site as well as the Cloud Family Association
<http://cloud-assn.org> web site.
May I suggest you join the Cloud Family Association -- I believe it is
$25 a year and there are opportunities for you to receive the Cloud
Family Journal as well as to attend the bi-annual Gatherings and we
would love for you to submit articles about your family ancestry to the
Journal.
sincerely,
Tom Cloud
On 4/2/2017 7:41 PM, mailman-bounces(a)rootsweb.com wrote:
> Lora cloud <lorahartmancloud(a)yahoo.com> has been successfully
> subscribed to CLOUD.