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Author: 12wrights
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/1104.1.1.1.2.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Thank you Ken
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Author: 12wrights
Surnames: Cloud
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/1104.1.1.1.2/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Tom, I looked at the. Cloud Family on MyKindred, that you suggested. I am sure the Cloud's listed are not of the Cloud family that I am looking for. Also, there was very little on the Cloud Family.
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Author: 12wrights
Surnames: Cloud
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/1104.1.1.2.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Robert A. Cloud is Rueben Arthur Cloud.
How do I purchase the CD made by Ken Cloud?
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Hi, Tom,
The short version of the Hibbard/Tackett history for Joe Gaines Cloud:
Joe's mother was Elnora Hibbard.
Elnora was the daughter of Joe Hibbard and Alpha Jane Tackett.
Joe Hibbard was the son of James Hibbard who was born (according to his
tombstone) in "Devonshire England" in November 1800 (I found a baptism
record for "James Hibbard in Jan/Feb 1799 - which I believe is for this
person --- my thinking is that he told his (YOUNG) second wife that he was
two years younger than he was and she had the info put on the tombstone.).
(I believe I have tracked ALL the American descendants of James Hibbard.)
Alpha Jane Tackett was the daughter of MountEtna Tackett and (oops - can't
think of wife's name right now). Her full brother was named "Edmond
Pendleton Gaines Tackett" [almost ALWAYS called EPG Tackett in the records;
but sometimes referred to as 'Gaines' in Alpha's notes]. I believe EPG was
named for (1) the place in England where MountEtna's friend (James Hibbard)
was born, (2) a family friend whose last name was Pendleton (no known
relationship to any of these people), and (3) NO IDEA where the Gaines came
from - no other reference to ANY "Gaines" in my Hibbard/Tackett notes from
that era. (By the way, although we have family lore that says MountEtna was
one of 10 siblings, we DO NOT have any idea yet of his parents [or if the
rumor is true that he is descended from someone who 'came to Arkansas in
1820-1823 from Louisiana] and cannot connect him to ANY of the (numerous)
Tackett family lines from KY et al.
While I was trying so hard to find the name of Joe Cloud's paternal
grandfather (that is, the Benjamin Cloud line), I ran across the connection
between the Cloud family and the Gaines family and tried very hard to find
some connection to my family - nothing surfaced.
I DID run down the connections between the Cloud family (William P. A.
Cloud) and the ENGLISH family (but no connection to any Gaines family) in
that area of Kentucky (long before I finally made the connection of WPA and
my line - can't get to my notes right now; but I'm sure WPA Cloud is either
Benjamin Cloud's son or brother. (Many more records exist for WPA Cloud
and his life than for others of this group.)
Carolyn Cloud Stanley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Cloud" <tcloud(a)austin.rr.com>
To: "Carolyn Cloud Stanley" <geneac99(a)yahoo.com>; <cloud(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: [CLOUD] dead-end lines with Cloud - Gaines families
> Carolyn,
>
> I believe the common GAINES ancestor for the people I've located was Henry
> GAINES:
> http://mykindred.com/cloud/TX/getperson.php?personID=I112688&tree=mykindr...
>
> I don't have the HIBBARD ancestry -- does it tie back into the GAINES
> family at some point, and perhaps back to Henry?
>
> thanks,
> Tom
>
>
> At 11:11 PM 5/19/2009, you wrote:
>>Hi, Tom,
>>
>>Joe Gaines Cloud was named for his maternal grandfather (Joe Hibbard), his
>>maternal grandmother's brother (Edmond Pendleton GAINES Tackett), and his
>>mother's brother (Gaines Hibbard). I don't have any idea if there was a
>>connection between his ancestor Benjamin C. Cloud and the Clouds who
>>intermarried with the Gaines family in KY many years back.
>>
>>Carolyn Cloud Stanley (dau of Joe G. Cloud)
>
> ===========================================
> Share your Cloud family history here.
> Join the Cloud Family Association
> http://mykindred.com/cloud/
> (The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud
> family.
> It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any commercial
> enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
If there are no men directly descended from a Cloud ancestor in your line, perhaps you can find a cousin or uncle, etc. from the same line. All men descended from the same common ancestor should have nearly identical DNA signatures, so a 2nd our 3rd cousin (sharing a great or great-great grandfather) should have the same DNA signature as your father or, if you have one, your brother.
Our project uses the Y-DNA -- only men have it. There are parts of it which mutate quickly enough to make it useful for "recent" genealogy -- i.e. genealogy within a time frame since surnames began to be used, about 1,000 years ago or less. The maternal line can be identified with mtDNA, but it mutates far more slowly. It also can't be used for a surname project since it changes with each marriage of the maternal ancestor.
Tom
At 09:18 AM 5/20/2009, Betty Ford <Betty.Ford(a)dars.state.tx.us> wrote:
>How would you test if there are no male Cloud members still living? I
>know that I have some male cousins in Illinois and some that are in
>California, but I don't have their addresses.
How would you test if there are no male Cloud members still living? I
know that I have some male cousins in Illinois and some that are in
California, but I don't have their addresses.
-----Original Message-----
From: cloud-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:cloud-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Cloud
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:02 AM
To: cloud(a)rootsweb.com
Cc: signpilot(a)sbcglobal.net; trogers(a)alliancenews.net
Subject: [CLOUD] DNA testing -- how it's done, what it tells us
Bob,
I'm copying this to the Cloud email forum as others are interested in
this also.
The DNA test is done with a buccal swab -- a rubbing of the inside of
the cheek. It's painless and easy to do. There are two vials and two
swabs so the company can be sure they get a good sample. I believe they
request the swabs be taken at least a day apart and that was the biggest
hassle for me (i.e. not much of a hassle).
Here is a page showing how the DNA sample is collected:
http://davedorsey.com/dna.html
When the test is ordered, they send an envelope with the two vials and
swabs. Once the sample has been collected (i.e. the rubbing from the
inside of the cheek) the vials are mailed back. The results take about
4 to 6 weeks to be returned and consist of a string of numbers. Then we
look for a match between that string of numbers and the test results we
already have in the project. (The testing company, Family Tree DNA,
also compares the results against their very large database and notifies
you if there are any possible matches in it.)
The DNA results, if significantly different, indicate no recent
relationship (i.e. within 1,000 years or more). If they are identical
or nearly identical, they indicate a close relationship (see the chart
below).
The number of years assumed for a generation is typically 25 to 30. Our
own project has an average of about 35 years per generation, but that's
because we aren't going through the first-born for each generation.
William Cloude the immigrant, born 1621 in England (388 years ago), who
came to America with William Penn in 1682 is 9 to 11 generations back
for the people currently in our project.
It looks to me like your line "might" belong to that of Joseph Cloud who
was born in PA about 1710 (299 years ago). He is a dead-end ancestor,
but the DNA evidence shows that he is descended from the line of William
Cloude the immigrant's son Robert who married Phoebe Neale. Joseph is 5
to 7 generations back from the people in the project who are descended
from him.
This means we are interested in knowing about more recent generations --
from less than 5 generations to no more than 10 or 11.
The more markers that are tested, the better the probability of seeing a
match at more recent generations:
An exact match at 12 markers:
33.6% chance of a common ancestor in 4 generations
55.9% chance of a common ancestor in 8 generations
70.6% chance of a common ancestor in 12 generations
80.5% chance of a common ancestor in 16 generations
87.0% chance of a common ancestor in 20 generations
91.4% chance of a common ancestor in 24 generations
An exact match at 25 markers
61.2% chance of a common ancestor in 4 generations
84.9% chance of a common ancestor in 8 generations
94.2% chance of a common ancestor in 12 generations
97.7% chance of a common ancestor in 16 generations
99.1% chance of a common ancestor in 20 generations
99.7% chance of a common ancestor in 24 generations
An exact match at 37 markers
83.5% chance of a common ancestor in 4 generations
97.3% chance of a common ancestor in 8 generations
99.6% chance of a common ancestor in 12 generations
99.93% chance of a common ancestor in 16 generations
99.99% chance of a common ancestor in 20 generations
100% chance of a common ancestor in 24 generations
An exact match at 67 markers
89.8% chance of a common ancestor in 4 generations
98.96% chance of a common ancestor in 8 generations
99.89% chance of a common ancestor in 12 generations
99.99% chance of a common ancestor in 16 generations
100% chance of a common ancestor in 20 generations
100% chance of a common ancestor in 24 generations
This means that a 12-marker test is useful for proving when one person
is NOT related to another.
If it appears two people are related, more markers can help narrow down
how many generations back is their common ancestor.
The 37 marker test has proven to be the most useful for our project and
the 67 marker test can help differentiate between two lines of close
cousins.
(Regarding the testing company -- the DNA field has been flooded by
companies offering DNA tests. Some are unreliable at best and and a few
are just plain unscrupulous at worst. Many promise or allude to results
which simply cannot be deduced from DNA results. Others don't have
controls over privacy and over the quality of their tests. Very few
have any useful customer service. Tests can be gotten for free through
Sorenson Molecular Genetics -- http://smgf.org/ -- but the results can
take a year or more to come back, you're not notified when they're done,
they're not sent to you, they don't test the same markers as we're using
and there is no way to contact anyone else who's tested through them.
Another company, very prominent in the genealogical field, has recently
entered the market. They have abysmal customer service, don't test the
same markers, mislead about the number of markers they do test and don't
allow for people to obtain their results easily or to communicate with
people with whom they might match. We use the company that started the
use of DNA for genealogical research -- Family Tree DNA. FTDNA has the
largest database, a prominent team of scientists, great customer service
and they are the leaders in developing new tests, standards and
definitions.)
(Back to the use of DNA for genealogical research):
DNA can't tell the name of a person or exactly which generation, but the
number of markers that match help narrow it down.
DNA results can be confusing -- just a bunch of numbers. Here is the
page showing the results for our project:
http://mykindred.com/cloud/dna/results/cdnareport.php
The results can be disappointing if one is expecting them to give the
name of an ancestor. What they give is an indication of the family
branch to which one is related -- by looking for a close match with
another person or group of persons. Once that is obtained, it's back to
traditional methods to determine the name of the ancestor. In other
words, one would contact people who are descended from the line of
interest to obtain information about it. The given names of people in
that line can be a clue as it was common to name children for a
grandfather or uncle (e.g. the given name GAINES which might come from
an ancestor). The surnames of collateral lines or of families that
lived nearby or who travelled with them can provide clues. Family oral
histories can also provide invaluable evidence. And of course there are
those most coveted evidences -- written documents: Bible records,
censuses, birth certificates, death certificates, newspaper accounts,
christening records!
, land records, wills and probate records, etc.
To help narrow the search, I've created a page showing the pedigrees for
the kits in our project. It is useful in helping visualize the
relationship of the various lines and, more importantly, in showing the
names of the people on which the traditional research can be focused.
(If there are enough people who've tested for that branch, one can even
"triangulate" back and locate the exact generation where a specific
mutation occurred.)
The pedigree chart is here:
http://mykindred.com/cloud/dna/results/pedchart.php
The DNA won't tell the name of an ancestor, but knowing which line to
investigate can save a lot of time and money that would be wasted in the
pursuit of unrelated lines.
I hope this helps. If you have any further questions, please write.
sincerely,
Tom Cloud
===========================================
Share your Cloud family history here.
Join the Cloud Family Association
http://mykindred.com/cloud/
(The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud
family.
It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any
commercial enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Bob,
I'm copying this to the Cloud email forum as others are interested in this also.
The DNA test is done with a buccal swab -- a rubbing of the inside of the cheek. It's painless and easy to do. There are two vials and two swabs so the company can be sure they get a good sample. I believe they request the swabs be taken at least a day apart and that was the biggest hassle for me (i.e. not much of a hassle).
Here is a page showing how the DNA sample is collected:
http://davedorsey.com/dna.html
When the test is ordered, they send an envelope with the two vials and swabs. Once the sample has been collected (i.e. the rubbing from the inside of the cheek) the vials are mailed back. The results take about 4 to 6 weeks to be returned and consist of a string of numbers. Then we look for a match between that string of numbers and the test results we already have in the project. (The testing company, Family Tree DNA, also compares the results against their very large database and notifies you if there are any possible matches in it.)
The DNA results, if significantly different, indicate no recent relationship (i.e. within 1,000 years or more). If they are identical or nearly identical, they indicate a close relationship (see the chart below).
The number of years assumed for a generation is typically 25 to 30. Our own project has an average of about 35 years per generation, but that's because we aren't going through the first-born for each generation.
William Cloude the immigrant, born 1621 in England (388 years ago), who came to America with William Penn in 1682 is 9 to 11 generations back for the people currently in our project.
It looks to me like your line "might" belong to that of Joseph Cloud who was born in PA about 1710 (299 years ago). He is a dead-end ancestor, but the DNA evidence shows that he is descended from the line of William Cloude the immigrant's son Robert who married Phoebe Neale. Joseph is 5 to 7 generations back from the people in the project who are descended from him.
This means we are interested in knowing about more recent generations -- from less than 5 generations to no more than 10 or 11.
The more markers that are tested, the better the probability of seeing a match at more recent generations:
An exact match at 12 markers:
33.6% chance of a common ancestor in 4 generations
55.9% chance of a common ancestor in 8 generations
70.6% chance of a common ancestor in 12 generations
80.5% chance of a common ancestor in 16 generations
87.0% chance of a common ancestor in 20 generations
91.4% chance of a common ancestor in 24 generations
An exact match at 25 markers
61.2% chance of a common ancestor in 4 generations
84.9% chance of a common ancestor in 8 generations
94.2% chance of a common ancestor in 12 generations
97.7% chance of a common ancestor in 16 generations
99.1% chance of a common ancestor in 20 generations
99.7% chance of a common ancestor in 24 generations
An exact match at 37 markers
83.5% chance of a common ancestor in 4 generations
97.3% chance of a common ancestor in 8 generations
99.6% chance of a common ancestor in 12 generations
99.93% chance of a common ancestor in 16 generations
99.99% chance of a common ancestor in 20 generations
100% chance of a common ancestor in 24 generations
An exact match at 67 markers
89.8% chance of a common ancestor in 4 generations
98.96% chance of a common ancestor in 8 generations
99.89% chance of a common ancestor in 12 generations
99.99% chance of a common ancestor in 16 generations
100% chance of a common ancestor in 20 generations
100% chance of a common ancestor in 24 generations
This means that a 12-marker test is useful for proving when one person is NOT related to another.
If it appears two people are related, more markers can help narrow down how many generations back is their common ancestor.
The 37 marker test has proven to be the most useful for our project and the 67 marker test can help differentiate between two lines of close cousins.
(Regarding the testing company -- the DNA field has been flooded by companies offering DNA tests. Some are unreliable at best and and a few are just plain unscrupulous at worst. Many promise or allude to results which simply cannot be deduced from DNA results. Others don't have controls over privacy and over the quality of their tests. Very few have any useful customer service. Tests can be gotten for free through Sorenson Molecular Genetics -- http://smgf.org/ -- but the results can take a year or more to come back, you're not notified when they're done, they're not sent to you, they don't test the same markers as we're using and there is no way to contact anyone else who's tested through them. Another company, very prominent in the genealogical field, has recently entered the market. They have abysmal customer service, don't test the same markers, mislead about the number of markers they do test and don't allow for people to obtain their results easily or to communi!
cate with people with whom they might match. We use the company that started the use of DNA for genealogical research -- Family Tree DNA. FTDNA has the largest database, a prominent team of scientists, great customer service and they are the leaders in developing new tests, standards and definitions.)
(Back to the use of DNA for genealogical research):
DNA can't tell the name of a person or exactly which generation, but the number of markers that match help narrow it down.
DNA results can be confusing -- just a bunch of numbers. Here is the page showing the results for our project:
http://mykindred.com/cloud/dna/results/cdnareport.php
The results can be disappointing if one is expecting them to give the name of an ancestor. What they give is an indication of the family branch to which one is related -- by looking for a close match with another person or group of persons. Once that is obtained, it's back to traditional methods to determine the name of the ancestor. In other words, one would contact people who are descended from the line of interest to obtain information about it. The given names of people in that line can be a clue as it was common to name children for a grandfather or uncle (e.g. the given name GAINES which might come from an ancestor). The surnames of collateral lines or of families that lived nearby or who travelled with them can provide clues. Family oral histories can also provide invaluable evidence. And of course there are those most coveted evidences -- written documents: Bible records, censuses, birth certificates, death certificates, newspaper accounts, christening records!
, land records, wills and probate records, etc.
To help narrow the search, I've created a page showing the pedigrees for the kits in our project. It is useful in helping visualize the relationship of the various lines and, more importantly, in showing the names of the people on which the traditional research can be focused. (If there are enough people who've tested for that branch, one can even "triangulate" back and locate the exact generation where a specific mutation occurred.)
The pedigree chart is here:
http://mykindred.com/cloud/dna/results/pedchart.php
The DNA won't tell the name of an ancestor, but knowing which line to investigate can save a lot of time and money that would be wasted in the pursuit of unrelated lines.
I hope this helps. If you have any further questions, please write.
sincerely,
Tom Cloud
I'm trying to solve some dead-end lines and the name GAINES in the given names of some of the descendants sparked my curiosity.
I created a web page to help understand the relationship between the CLOUD and GAINES families and to see if there are any clues there to solve the dead-end lines.
- http://mykindred.com/cloud/TX/Documents/002/CLOUD_GAINES.htm
The dead-end lines are (in chronological order):
- Joseph Cloud (1710 PA)
- William CLOUD (1792 VA)
- Benjamin C. Cloud (1800 KY)
- Robert Gaines Cloud (1870 AL)
My current thinking is that they may all be descended from the line of Joseph Cloud b. 1710 PA who married Nancy Moore.
DNA tests of male descendants of those lines can prove that to be true or not and I'd appreciate any help tracking down and recruiting people from them.
... please let me know if you have any ideas or comments.
thanks,
Tom Cloud
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Author: t42RoseHill
Surnames: CLOUD
Classification: cemetery
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/1124/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
CLOUD B F 1860-1933
I photographed this gravestone in the (Shannon) Rose Hill Cemetery, Tarrant Co., Texas. Feel free to use this picture for your personal records. This is one of the 203,355 cemetery photos free at http://teafor2.com .
If you know more about this person please reply here,instead of contacting me because this is most likely not my family.
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Author: locketheart
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/1123/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Here are some records I found in VA genealogy records.
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There is a marriage license available to anyone that claims it for:
Martha Bernice Cloud and W.A. Crawford (I have his name as William Ayers Crawford).
I don't know what family Martha belongs to -- if anyone knows, please let me know.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~txkusa/unclaimed/arkmillgroomc.html
There is a marriage license available to anyone that claims it for:
Hugh Percival Cloud and Irroa Alexander (I have her name as Irma Norwood Alexander).
This is from the line of Samuel Owen Cloud and Martha Cooper Adams.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~txkusa/unclaimed/arkmillgroomc.html
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Author: 12wrights
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/20.81.226/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I will be unable to answer my messages for a while. However,I will be able to read the message board.
Thank You
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Probate records:
Cloud, Gracie, Isaac, James, John, Kennedy, Lucius and Rebeca minors
Nov 09 1881 Williamson
Cloud, J. and M. minors Feb 16 1877 Williamson
Cloud, John F. NCM, (no papers) Oct 31 1895 Williamson
Cloud, L. A. NCM Aug 29 1911 Williamson
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Author: 12wrights
Surnames: Cloud
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/20.81.225/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Kaye, I am sorry I haven't returned your message for I have been very sick, looking at surgery. I will get back to you as soon as I am able. Your info. is very interesting, can't wait to converse with you. Shirley
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Author: 12wrights
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/20.81.224.2/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I have a William Leroy in our family. Hope we connect.
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Author: 12wrights
Surnames: Cloud
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/20.80.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Hello I would like you to forward some relative's you have to see if I can identify with any of them.
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Author: 12wrights
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/1118.3/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Sharon Foster, I have Annie as 102 yrs. lived.
Lived in Mays Co. OK when she died. I believe she was buried in Broken Arrow, OK.
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Author: 12wrights
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/1118.1.1.1.3/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Yes, I replied yesterday to your inquiry.
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Author: 12wrights
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/20.24.119/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Hello, my name is Shirley Cloud. My grandfather's name was Rueben Cloud. I do not recognize the other name's. His father was Abner Cloud. I wonder if a mistake is being made on either side.
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