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Lura,
I apologize if I wrote WOOLWERY -- there was only one "W" in the name -- "WOOLERY"
Thanks again ... I don't want to minimize anyone's existence, but it sometimes seems like our efforts might be better spent following lines that aren't so obscure ?? .... but these are the ones that seem to intrigue me the most.
Tom
At 01:11 AM 3/31/2008, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 3/20/2008 4:14:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>tcloud(a)austin.rr.com writes:
>>
>>On Oct. 10, 1889, George WOOLWERY married Mary Jane CLOUD in Madison county,
>> Kentucky. I can't find anything about these people anyplace other than the
>>Kentucky marriage records .... not on census or anywhere else.
>>
>>Anyone know who they might be? .... they ought to be someone's
>>grandparents or great-grandparents.
>>
>>thanks,
>>Tom
>
>
>
>This would appear to be another needle in the haystack. But, what I think I
>can tell you is that the name WOOLWERY does not exist.
... snip
In a message dated 3/20/2008 4:14:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
tcloud(a)austin.rr.com writes:
On Oct. 10, 1889, George WOOLWERY married Mary Jane CLOUD in Madison county,
Kentucky. I can't find anything about these people anyplace other than the
Kentucky marriage records .... not on census or anywhere else.
Anyone know who they might be? .... they ought to be someone's
grandparents or great-grandparents.
thanks,
Tom
This would appear to be another needle in the haystack. But, what I think I
can tell you is that the name WOOLWERY does not exist. I put the name in
the SSDI and not a single sole with that last name emerged.
I checked the 1900 census for a George Woolery. At this point, there is
only one in Kentucky married to Martha. They have children older than 11 so it
can't be them. There is one living in Iowa, married 10 years to Mary, but
there is nothing in their information to link them to KY. Also, 1930 George W.
Woolery, born abt 1862, Mary J., in Carlisle, Warren, Iowa. Absolutely
nothing links this family to Kentucky.
So, I concentrated on Mary Cloud, 1880 census...2 possibilities (among 100's
of others probably), in the 1880 census there is a Mary Cloud in Bourbon
Cty, which is directly above Madison; and there is one in Montgomery Cty which
is directly to the north east of Madison.
Bourbon...living with mother, Lizzie (37) who is widowed - parents of both
born KY, no brothers/sisters
Montgomery Cty....living with mother, Virginia (38) who is widowed, and
sisters, Lue Ellen, Bettie, and Pauline. Parents of everyone born KY.
So, what's the deal with all those Kentucky men dying early. All miners?
Anyway, there is no guarantee that either one of these Mary's are the ones who
married George.
Okay, I think I have found your George...1880 census, Madison, KY, p 480B,
481A
Sarilda Woolery, 51 or 57, KY, KY, KY
Sarah, daughter, 25, KY
Nancy, daughter, 22, KY
John, son, 18, KY
George, son, 14, KY
Leeland, son, 10, KY
Amos, son, 7, KY
1870 census has them listed as Woolsey, Yates, Madison Cty, KY
Zerelda Woolsey, 34
Sallie, 16
John, 14
Garlin, 12
Nanca, 11
William, 9
George, 3
[Note: This family cannot read or write. Appears Sallie can read only]
1860 census Madison, KY
William F. Woolery, 32, KY, farmer
Zerelda, 25, KY
Sally A., 6, KY
John, 5, KY
Garland K., 3, KY
Nancy F., 1, KY
I can't figure out who his parents are...There are 3 other Woolery families
in Madison Cty....families 434, 435, 437...William is family 459. There is
one other Woolery that is age 32. So, unless he and Joseph/Josiah are twins,
there are separate families. I thought I was going to be able to figure out
Zerelda's maiden name, so I queried Kentucky for Zerelda...joke. Would you
believe there are 191 in Kentucky? There are only 4 in Madison Cty...Manion
(1828), Mason (1833), Moberly/Mobley (1842), Shroat (1845). I would guess
Moberly cause I saw that name polled right after them in one of the censi. But,
this one is noted as born in 1842. She is too young. It is interesting
though that in the 1850 census, the Moberly family is polled 3 families after a
Woolery family. I can't find William in the 1850 census. The Woolery family
that has Joseph/Josiah in it. Also in the 1870 census, Mobley is polled
right before Zerelda. She seemed to jump in age from 1870 to 1880.
I just can't put an age to Mary Jane....
Lura
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolho...)
Lura,
thank you very much for the help with this .... now if we could only find a living Cloud male descendant of this line to get into the DNA project.
Tom
At 08:44 PM 3/29/2008, you wrote:
>
>Tom...In the 1900 census I found this...before I go into it, I checked my
>map..Pennsburg is about 60 miles due north of Chadds Ford.
>
>1900 census Pennsburg, Chester Cty, PA, page 191A
... snip
Tom...In the 1900 census I found this...before I go into it, I checked my
map..Pennsburg is about 60 miles due north of Chadds Ford.
1900 census Pennsburg, Chester Cty, PA, page 191A
Family #4
Harlan Cloud, born Aug 1839, age 60, married 30 yrs, PA, PA, PA, farmer
Hannah, born Sep 1849, 50, married 30 yrs, 7 children, 5 living, PA, PA, PA
Frank, son, born Jul 1885, 14, PA
Bessie, daughter, 1891, 9, PA (can't read month)
Family #29, page 192A, Polled with Frank and Ella (can't really read last
name- starts with an F)
Harlan Cloud, white, servant, born Oct 1882, 17, PA, PA, PA, farm laborer
(suspect this is the son of Harlan and Hannah)
1880 census, Pennsburg, Chester Cty, PA
Harlan Cloud, 41, PA, PA, PA
Hannah J., 30, PA, PA, PA
Eddie T., son, 6, PA, PA, PA
William, son, 5, PA, PA, PA
Lydia C., daughter, 5 months, born Dec 1879, PA, PA, PA
Samuel Tucker, nephew, 14, DE, DE, PA
Mary A. Cloud, mother, 79,PA, PA, PA
1870 census, Pennsburg, Chester Cty, PA
family 120, page 485, married in Dec of 1869
Harlan Cloud, 31, PA
Hannah, 21, PA
Sam Tucker, 4, DE
Interesting, the only Mary Cloud I find in 1870 PA is way over on the west
side of the state in Beaver Cty, I don't think this is her cause she appears
to be a spinster..living with David Cloud, 68, Anna Cloud, 76, and then Mary
Cloud is listed, 70. Maybe she is living with brother and sister in law and
her husband passed away earlier. The real interesting thing is that they are
polled right after Thomas and Margaret Sweringen. Now that's a last name I
have heard before. (note: There are, by the way, 120 Cloud's living in
Chester Cty in 1870). This probably is not her, cause I found one in 1860 Chester
Cty. There is also one in 1860 Beaver Cty.
1860 Kennett, Chester Cty, PA, all born PA, p. 353, family 191
Franklin Cloud, 60
Mary Ann, 58
Allen, 22
Marshall, 16
Elizabeth, 8
Franklin, 5
family 194...Harlan Cloud, 20 is polled with Sarah A. Lamb??????, age 30.
(This is the Harlan who married Hannah)
1850 census, Kennett, Chester Cty, PA
Franklin Cloud, 50
Mary A, 49
James, 19
Chandler, 16
Allen, 14
Harlan, 12
Mary J., 10
Marshall, 6
Okay I think I have shown Harlan, born 1882 lineage back a couple of
generations..
Going forward, I don't find out 1882 born Harlan Cloud...but, I find another
Harlan Cloud (10) born about 1900 in the Kennett, Chester Cty, PA Census.
His parents are John (born abt 1871) and Katie (born abt 1876) (family 56),
with other children, Sarah (7) and Joseph (4). On this same page is Abner
(31)and Sallie Cloud (31); father Jesse (age 64, widowed) living with them
(family 52). Also on the page is Albert Cloud (55). He was a stonemason and is
shown as single (family 51).
Okay, I guess I found them. I queried for Edith, born abt 1909 in PA,
father born PA, mother born Germany. Found Edith Claud.
1910 census, Philadelphia Ward 34, Philadelphia Cty, PA, family 180
Geo H. Cloud, 27, married 3 yrs, PA, PA, PA, carpenter
Albertine, 23, married 3 yrs, 1 child/1 living, Germany, Germany, Germany,
year of immigration 1895
Edith, 1, PA, PA, Germany
1920 Hillside, Union Cty, NJ, 24 James Street,
George Cloud, 36, PA, PA, PA
Albertine, 33, Germany, Germany, Germany, yr of immigration 1894,
Edith M. (?), PA, PA, Germany
Do you know Albertine's maiden name? Here is my suggestion. I queried 1900
census for an Albertine born about 1887 in Germany. Since they immigrated
in 1894 or 1895, then she should be in the 1900 census. And since she was
only about 13, she should be with her parents. Here is the only strong
possibility I see in the census. She is also, the only Albertine shown in
Philadelphia.
1900 census, Philadelphia Ward 33, Philadelphia Cty, PA, page 144A, family
Alpherie/Alphonse Ackerman, 4, born Aug 1858, 41, married 18 yrs, Germany,
Germany, Germany, yr of immigration 1890, 10 yrs in US, moulder ?
Louisa Ackerman, 41, born Jan 1859, married 18 yrs, 3 children/3 living,
Germany, Germany, Germany, yr of immigration 1890, 10 yrs in US
Alpherie/Alphonse Ackerman Jr, son, 16, born 1883 (can't read month),
Germany, Germany, Germany, yr of immigration 1890, 10 yrs in US, packer in mill
Albertine Ackerman, 14, born Jan or Jun 1886, Germany, Germany, Germany, yr
of immigration 1890, 10 yrs in US
Joseph Ackerman, 3, born Sep 1896, PA, Germany, Germany
[Note: 1910 census has an Alfonso and Louisa Ackerman still living in ward
33 Philadelphia. Junior and Joseph are still living with them.]
1930 census Newark, Sussex, NJ...interesting, George is not shown as
widowed, but no wife in household, and I can't find her elsewhere
George H. Cloud, 47, married at age 24, PA, PA, DE, millwright in a chemical
company
Edith, daughter, 21, PA, PA, Germany, office clerk in department store
[Note: Is interesting that this census shows his mother born in Delaware.
While looking in a previous census I saw some other Cloud's who were
indicating PA, PA, DE. Wonder if they could have been related?
THE END...unless there is something else you would wish I follow up..
Lura
In a message dated 3/3/2008 4:15:28 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
tcloud(a)austin.rr.com writes:
If you have any clues about George Harlan Cloud b. 1882 in Chadds Ford, PA.,
please send them along.
Here is what I know so far:
father:
Harlan Cloud, b. PA (dob unknown) (1)
son:
- George Harlan Cloud, b. OCT 28, 1882 Chadds Ford, PA (1)
+ m. Abertine, b. ca 1887 Germany (1910/1920 census) (2)
child:
- Edith CLoud, b. ca 1909 PA (1910/1920 census) (2)
Sources:
(1) - Passport information
(2) - census
I found where another researcher says that George's father Harlan married
Hannah Jane Meredith and had six children:
-- all b. Chester cty, PA
Anna England Cloud (1872-1872)
Edward Thomas Cloud (1873-)
William Meredith Cloud (1875-)
Lydia Craig Cloud (1879-1886)
* George Harlan Cloud (1882-)
Franklin Cloud (1885-)
There is a George Harlan Cloud, General USMC, in my Jeremiah line, but he
was b. 1904 TX and I know of no other occurrence of the name "Harlan" in our
Jeremiah line.
Mordecai Cloud (1729-1801) b. Chester cty, PA, married Ann HARLAN and had a
son named Harlan Cloud in 1760. Somewhere in the line of Mordecai and Ann
(Harlan) Cloud seems like a logical place for a man named Harlan Cloud, but I
can't find the family for this particular George Harlan Cloud and his father
Harlan Cloud.
thanks,
Tom
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolho...)
On Oct. 10, 1889, George WOOLWERY married Mary Jane CLOUD in Madison county, Kentucky. I can't find anything about these people anyplace other than the Kentucky marriage records .... not on census or anywhere else.
Anyone know who they might be? .... they ought to be someone's grandparents or great-grandparents.
thanks,
Tom
Nora Cloud married Harry B. Johnson Dec 16, 1895 in Jerome, Jerome cty, Idaho
That makes me estimate her dob as about 1875.
Anyone have any idea who she belongs to?
thanks,
Tom
Betty,
I am not aware of a daughter named Margarete for Freeman and Elsie (Barr) Cloud. On 1920 census they had Frank (1909) and Helen A. Cloud (1913). Please tell me what you know about Margarete.
My info for Freeman is here:
http://mykindred.com/cloud/TX/getperson.php?personID=I134253&tree=mykindr...
thanks,
Tom
At 09:30 AM 3/13/2008, Betty Ford <Betty.Ford(a)dars.state.tx.us> wrote:
>Isn't that odd. I had an uncle named Freeman Cloud and he married Elsie
>Barr and they had a son named Frank and a daughter named Margarete. But
>of course these are just conincidences.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Author: donnajimb1
Surnames: Cloud, Harvey
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/937.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Donna, still trying to get in touch with Kim,
Sherri(Cheri)Cloud and Lavenia (Beanie)Harvey.
Please let me know if you can connect me with
MY BEST FRIENDS FROM HIGH SCHOOL and Beanie their
Mother--she was like a second Mother to me. I
Am trying to plan a trip to Oklahoma--(been trying
to plan for a long time but health issues keep getting
in the way)--Also have family in Dallas--I have been
trying to see also--so would make this a double trip.
THANKS Donna JIm
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Does anyone have any ideas on the parents of Frank E. Cloud who married Betty Mettetal?
1-Frank E. Cloud
b: abt 1925
+Betty Mettetal
b: MAR 4, 1929 in Johnson City, Washington county, Tennessee
m: abt 1953
d: AUG 28, 2004 in Lexington, Fayette county, Kentucky
. . 2-Frank Al Cloud
. . 2-Chuck Cloud
. . 2-Lee Cloud
. . 2-Margaret Cloud
Betty's parents and siblings -- and her paternal grandparents -- lived their entire lives in Johnson City, Washington county, Tennessee. Betty died in Lexington, KY, but I don't know anything about the birth or death places for Frank E. Cloud or for any of their children.
The closest I can find in my data is Frank Cloud, s/o Winston Cloud and Pearle Lowery -- except he is said to have had cerebral palsy and never married.
thanks,
Tom
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Author: shawanna199
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/695.3/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Red Cloud was my great great great great grandfather.So whoever flopark1 is we are related!!!!Please contact me at my email address!!!
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Author: tom_cloud
Surnames: CLOUD, MATTOX
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/909.3.2.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Lisa,
I just wrote you privately -- but I find this census record that I think may be your James M. Cloud and Martha Ward -- the ages work.
-
1860 census, MO, Howell, Howell, p. 18-19, (M653-624, 558)
June 18, 1860, HH 128/128
James Cloud, 21, M, farmer, , $--, $700, GA
Martha " , 16, F, NC
Mary Mattox, 60, F, TN
-
If that's him, then they had no children prior to 1860, contrary to what I've seen posted, and perhaps Mary Mattox is the mother-in-law who remarried a Mattox???
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Author: ljc777
Surnames: Cloud
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/909.3.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Thanks for the reply, Tom.
Yes, my dad is Jack, the oldest of Joel's sons. I've seen the Isaac and Matilda listed as parents, as well as an Isaac and Joanna, but following that that thread leads to a James Madison Cloud listed as born 1815 not 1838, and has him marrying someone other than Martha Catherine Ward. I'd be interested to see any documentation of the connection.
I'm also trying to find Charles C. Cloud's date of death as well as where the "Cairo" comes from, because in my branch of the family we have it as Charles Clifton Cloud. He was a notary public in Indian Territory and signed documents as late as 1907, but I can't find anything that shows when he died or where he's buried.
Thanks again!
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Author: tom_cloud
Surnames: CLOUD
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/909.3.2.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Lisa,
I have this family on the mykindred.com website, and I have your grandfather Clarles Cairo Cloud's line:
http://mykindred.com/cloud/TX/getperson.php?personID=I83854&tree=mykindred01
This is not my family line, so I don't really know anything about them. I'd be happy to work with you and to add your family's history to the data I maintain.
Is your father one of the four son of Joel Bryant Cloud?
Tom Cloud
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Author: ljc777
Surnames: Cloud, Christie, Ward
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/1068.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
According to the Stilwell Standard, Sept. 1902, Joe Henry Cloud was "shot in the back of the head and killed instantly". He was found the next morning on the side of the road dead "with a bullet hole in his head and a jug of whiskey standing close by his dead body." He was buried in New Hope Cemetery.
It was widely assumed at the time that his wife Catherine "Katie" Christie Cloud's brother killed Joe, though I haven't discovered a motive beyond the fact that Joe Henry was a "known whiskey peddler" according to a case against him out of Indian Territory, Arkansas.
Joe was the son of James Monroe Cloud and Martha Catherine Ward Cloud, and was the brother of my great-grandfather Charles C. Cloud.
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Author: ljc777
Surnames: Cloud, Ward
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/909.3.2.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I'm also looking for a specific Cloud in Georgia. James Monroe Cloud born in 1838, probably in Murray Co.. He married Martha Catherine Ward, who was Cherokee, and ended up migrating to Indian Territory with a stop in Missouri and a trip or two to Tennessee. He possibly had a brother named Samuel.
The problem I've had is that there was another James M. Cloud in the area, but his middle name was Madison and he married someone else. I've only been able to find that James M.'s parents, not my line.
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I've put passport images -- and links to the people they belong to -- at:
http://mykindred.com/cloud/TX/Documents/passports/Cloud/
Take a look, let me know what you think -- hope they help you a little.
(Please tell me if you see anything not working right.)
Tom
Laura & Marion,
I don't know if the information I have collected applies to your line, but
I began a search for the source for the place name for Cloud Springs
located in Walker/Catoosa County, GA. I learned that a Carroll A. and Mary
W. Cloud moved into what was then Walker County, GA between 1850 - 1860.
They had previously lived in Chatham County, GA, District 13 and before
that in Edgefield County, SC. Carroll A. Cloud and his young bride were
listed on page 57 of the SC 1840 census. Carroll was age 25 and Mary was
age 20.
Carroll A. and Mary W. Cloud were living with Mary M. Denslow in Chatham
County, GA when the 1850 census was taken. Carroll was a planter with an
estate of $19,000. He owned many slaves. According to the census, Mary
Denslow was born in VA in 1790. Carroll Cloud was born in SC in 1815 and
Mary was born in GA in 1820.
By 1860 Carroll and Mary Cloud owned a plantation in the Snow Hill area of
Catoosa County, GA. A spring flowed through the property and it became
known as Cloud Springs. Carroll and Mary did not have any children as far
as I have been able to determine. He held the rank of Colonel in the
Confederaate Army during the Civil War and often gave counsel to Jefferson
Davis regarding the conduct of the conflict.
I thought he might be a clue to the identity of James Carroll Cloud.
Ray Shirley
> [Original Message]
> From: MARION CLOUD <marion_cloud(a)msn.com>
> To: <cloud(a)rootsweb.com>
> Date: 3/3/2008 7:28:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [CLOUD] Prognostication about finding Twiggs
ctyJeremiah'sfather
>
> Laura,
> You mentioned "James Carrell". Have you seen any documents with his
middle name on them? We have always believed that "Unity Carroll" was his
mother and that would make sense but I have found anything that would
document his name. a couple of his sons had "C" as a middle initial but
again I haven't found anything that would define their names.
>
> You have extensive info on Noah's descendants. I would like to trade
info. Your research would be very helpful to me in filling out my family
history. Along that line of thinking... Jan has documents on Noah's
Jeremiah. He died Dec of 1812 in Jones Co.GA. Jones is bordered by Baldwin
,Twiggs and Bibb Co. Rueben was in Baldwin Co for a brief period and then
moved to Bainbridge, GA. {A port city next to AL and the Gulf} James was in
Twiggs CO before moving to Crawford Co. I think that there brother William
was also in Twiggs. At any rate, after Jeremiah's death Sarah sold property
in Jan, 1813 and moved back to SC. Jan has papers that show an interaction
with his g'sons there. One of the boys was Phillip, I believe, Can't
remember the other at the moment. Now to the point of all this, As adults
they moved to Bainbridge where Uncle Rueben and son Noah Lafayette had
lived. As I recall Noah L. didn't have any children. Today Bainbridge and
Albany GA contain many Clouds. Surely s!
> ome of them are "other Noah RS" descendants that would help us run down
that line and perhaps contribute some DNA.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Laura & Joe<mailto:DigMyPast@msn.com>
> To: cloud(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:cloud@rootsweb.com> ; Cloud, Thomas
M.<mailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [CLOUD] Prognostication about finding Twiggs cty
Jeremiah'sfather
>
>
> Tom & Others
> Since I do not understand completely how the DNA research works, can I
ask
> an uneducated question?
> I got my father's DNA (Noah>John B> Jeremiah T> Sampson C> Archibald H>
> Hamilton W) and entered it into your research. I have two brothers,
would
> their DNA help?
> I have access to males from the lineage of Noah>John B>Jeremiah
T>Preston
> Glenn>Joseph Hazel. Would that help more? I have a connection to
reach the
> only male from the line of Noah>James Carrell>Andrew Jackson>Andrew
> Jackson>John Wylie>Gerald.
>
> I firmly believe that your Jeremiah is the son of my Noah (No proof,
just
> gut feeling) and I would love to help prove it. If we can start a fund
to
> help pay for those tests of folks that are hesitant because of the
price,
> maybe we could get more DNA. If you decide on this, count me in for
$50.
> Just the ramblings of an old Cloud researcher.
> Laura
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Cloud" <tcloud(a)austin.rr.com<mailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com>>
> To: <cloud(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:cloud@rootsweb.com>>
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:05 AM
> Subject: [CLOUD] Prognostication about finding Twiggs cty Jeremiah's
father
>
>
> >
> > This is essentially a DNA related comment -- and applies to everyone
who
> > is looking to resolve their brick-wall ancestor.
> >
> > Here is my humble prediction about what will eventually come to pass
in
> > the long and tedious search for the father of "my" Twiggs county
Jeremiah.
> >
> > 1 - I am not confident we will ever know his name -- at least not
with
> > 100% certainty. We must find written documentation to do that.
> >
> > 2 - I am confident we will narrow down his father to a specific line
> > within a generation or two (we're close to that now).
> >
> > What is needed?
> >
> > In order to determine the line he came from with the most accuracy,
we
> > need to get more male descendants from those lines to join the DNA
> > project.
> >
> > What this does -- this allows us to work backward from the man who
tested
> > and to compare his results with that of his cousin(s). In so doing,
as we
> > work our way back up the lineage, we can identify where the
differences in
> > the DNA signature occurred. This must be done in both the Jeremiah
branch
> > and in the branch(es) he appears to be most closely related to.
> >
> > What to expect:
> >
> > We can expect, at some point, to be able to look at those results and
know
> > at exactly which generation and even which man experienced the
> > differentiating DNA mutation. Our Jeremiah will belong to the branch
his
> > DNA signature exactly matches.
> >
> > Caveats:
> >
> > This requires some "suitable" large number of tests in order to
pinpoint
> > where each mutation occurred. I've tried to come up with a "formula"
for
> > determining how many people should test, but I can't. If we had one
male
> > from each tip of the tree -- i.e. all first cousins -- we'd
definitely
> > have enough, but this isn't always possible and may not even be
practical.
> >
> > (When I write "all first cousins" I don't mean everyone -- not
brothers --
> > but a representative from each branch. That would mean one male from
each
> > father at the tip of the tree.)
> >
> > The scenario I expect:
> >
> > When we get the necessary data, and when it is properly analyzed, we
will
> > know with virtual certainty which branch Jeremiah's father came from.
We
> > will be able to guess at which man in the line (which generation) was
his
> > father or grandfather by looking at the dates of births. What we
cannot
> > know for certain is if one of the sons -- our Jeremiah's father,
> > grandfather, etc. -- disappeared without leaving a written record.
This
> > is because the guy who disappeared has the same DNA signature as his
> > brothers and his father and his sons and nephews -- assuming no
mutation
> > occurred in those generations (the mutation is what identifies a new
> > branch and it is inherited by all the men descended from the man who
> > experienced it)
> >
> > The best (I believe) we can hope for:
> >
> > When we have identified the line and approximate father or
grandfather, we
> > can zero in on that family and research the dickens out of it. The
> > coolest thing that could happen would be for the person above
Jeremiah's
> > father (his grandfather) and a person below him (his first cousin) to
> > experience a mutation -- those mutations would allow us to
specifically
> > identify one generation as being where Jeremiah's line intersects.
> >
> > Maybe we will get lucky and find a legal document or a newspaper
article
> > that provides the final clue. Maybe we will dig up someone who has a
> > family Bible that provides our answer But we can't be certain of
> > Jeremiah's father without that written documentation.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > ===========================================
> > Share your Cloud family history here.
> > Join the Cloud Family Association
> > http://mykindred.com/cloud/<http://mykindred.com/cloud/>
> > (The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the
Cloud
> > family.
> > It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any
commercial
> > enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:CLOUD-request@rootsweb.com> with
the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> > in the subject and the body of the message
>
> ===========================================
> Share your Cloud family history here.
> Join the Cloud Family Association
> http://mykindred.com/cloud/<http://mykindred.com/cloud/>
> (The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the
Cloud family.
> It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any
commercial enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:CLOUD-request@rootsweb.com> with the word
'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> ===========================================
> Share your Cloud family history here.
> Join the Cloud Family Association
> http://mykindred.com/cloud/
> (The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud
family.
> It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any
commercial enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message
Laura,
You mentioned "James Carrell". Have you seen any documents with his middle name on them? We have always believed that "Unity Carroll" was his mother and that would make sense but I have found anything that would document his name. a couple of his sons had "C" as a middle initial but again I haven't found anything that would define their names.
You have extensive info on Noah's descendants. I would like to trade info. Your research would be very helpful to me in filling out my family history. Along that line of thinking... Jan has documents on Noah's Jeremiah. He died Dec of 1812 in Jones Co.GA. Jones is bordered by Baldwin ,Twiggs and Bibb Co. Rueben was in Baldwin Co for a brief period and then moved to Bainbridge, GA. {A port city next to AL and the Gulf} James was in Twiggs CO before moving to Crawford Co. I think that there brother William was also in Twiggs. At any rate, after Jeremiah's death Sarah sold property in Jan, 1813 and moved back to SC. Jan has papers that show an interaction with his g'sons there. One of the boys was Phillip, I believe, Can't remember the other at the moment. Now to the point of all this, As adults they moved to Bainbridge where Uncle Rueben and son Noah Lafayette had lived. As I recall Noah L. didn't have any children. Today Bainbridge and Albany GA contain many Clouds. Surely some of them are "other Noah RS" descendants that would help us run down that line and perhaps contribute some DNA.
----- Original Message -----
From: Laura & Joe<mailto:DigMyPast@msn.com>
To: cloud(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:cloud@rootsweb.com> ; Cloud, Thomas M.<mailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [CLOUD] Prognostication about finding Twiggs cty Jeremiah'sfather
Tom & Others
Since I do not understand completely how the DNA research works, can I ask
an uneducated question?
I got my father's DNA (Noah>John B> Jeremiah T> Sampson C> Archibald H>
Hamilton W) and entered it into your research. I have two brothers, would
their DNA help?
I have access to males from the lineage of Noah>John B>Jeremiah T>Preston
Glenn>Joseph Hazel. Would that help more? I have a connection to reach the
only male from the line of Noah>James Carrell>Andrew Jackson>Andrew
Jackson>John Wylie>Gerald.
I firmly believe that your Jeremiah is the son of my Noah (No proof, just
gut feeling) and I would love to help prove it. If we can start a fund to
help pay for those tests of folks that are hesitant because of the price,
maybe we could get more DNA. If you decide on this, count me in for $50.
Just the ramblings of an old Cloud researcher.
Laura
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Cloud" <tcloud(a)austin.rr.com<mailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com>>
To: <cloud(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:cloud@rootsweb.com>>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:05 AM
Subject: [CLOUD] Prognostication about finding Twiggs cty Jeremiah's father
>
> This is essentially a DNA related comment -- and applies to everyone who
> is looking to resolve their brick-wall ancestor.
>
> Here is my humble prediction about what will eventually come to pass in
> the long and tedious search for the father of "my" Twiggs county Jeremiah.
>
> 1 - I am not confident we will ever know his name -- at least not with
> 100% certainty. We must find written documentation to do that.
>
> 2 - I am confident we will narrow down his father to a specific line
> within a generation or two (we're close to that now).
>
> What is needed?
>
> In order to determine the line he came from with the most accuracy, we
> need to get more male descendants from those lines to join the DNA
> project.
>
> What this does -- this allows us to work backward from the man who tested
> and to compare his results with that of his cousin(s). In so doing, as we
> work our way back up the lineage, we can identify where the differences in
> the DNA signature occurred. This must be done in both the Jeremiah branch
> and in the branch(es) he appears to be most closely related to.
>
> What to expect:
>
> We can expect, at some point, to be able to look at those results and know
> at exactly which generation and even which man experienced the
> differentiating DNA mutation. Our Jeremiah will belong to the branch his
> DNA signature exactly matches.
>
> Caveats:
>
> This requires some "suitable" large number of tests in order to pinpoint
> where each mutation occurred. I've tried to come up with a "formula" for
> determining how many people should test, but I can't. If we had one male
> from each tip of the tree -- i.e. all first cousins -- we'd definitely
> have enough, but this isn't always possible and may not even be practical.
>
> (When I write "all first cousins" I don't mean everyone -- not brothers --
> but a representative from each branch. That would mean one male from each
> father at the tip of the tree.)
>
> The scenario I expect:
>
> When we get the necessary data, and when it is properly analyzed, we will
> know with virtual certainty which branch Jeremiah's father came from. We
> will be able to guess at which man in the line (which generation) was his
> father or grandfather by looking at the dates of births. What we cannot
> know for certain is if one of the sons -- our Jeremiah's father,
> grandfather, etc. -- disappeared without leaving a written record. This
> is because the guy who disappeared has the same DNA signature as his
> brothers and his father and his sons and nephews -- assuming no mutation
> occurred in those generations (the mutation is what identifies a new
> branch and it is inherited by all the men descended from the man who
> experienced it)
>
> The best (I believe) we can hope for:
>
> When we have identified the line and approximate father or grandfather, we
> can zero in on that family and research the dickens out of it. The
> coolest thing that could happen would be for the person above Jeremiah's
> father (his grandfather) and a person below him (his first cousin) to
> experience a mutation -- those mutations would allow us to specifically
> identify one generation as being where Jeremiah's line intersects.
>
> Maybe we will get lucky and find a legal document or a newspaper article
> that provides the final clue. Maybe we will dig up someone who has a
> family Bible that provides our answer But we can't be certain of
> Jeremiah's father without that written documentation.
>
> Tom
>
> ===========================================
> Share your Cloud family history here.
> Join the Cloud Family Association
> http://mykindred.com/cloud/<http://mykindred.com/cloud/>
> (The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud
> family.
> It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any commercial
> enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:CLOUD-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
===========================================
Share your Cloud family history here.
Join the Cloud Family Association
http://mykindred.com/cloud/<http://mykindred.com/cloud/>
(The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud family.
It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any commercial enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:CLOUD-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
If you have any clues about George Harlan Cloud b. 1882 in Chadds Ford, PA., please send them along.
Here is what I know so far:
father:
Harlan Cloud, b. PA (dob unknown) (1)
son:
- George Harlan Cloud, b. OCT 28, 1882 Chadds Ford, PA (1)
+ m. Abertine, b. ca 1887 Germany (1910/1920 census) (2)
child:
- Edith CLoud, b. ca 1909 PA (1910/1920 census) (2)
Sources:
(1) - Passport information
(2) - census
I found where another researcher says that George's father Harlan married Hannah Jane Meredith and had six children:
-- all b. Chester cty, PA
Anna England Cloud (1872-1872)
Edward Thomas Cloud (1873-)
William Meredith Cloud (1875-)
Lydia Craig Cloud (1879-1886)
* George Harlan Cloud (1882-)
Franklin Cloud (1885-)
There is a George Harlan Cloud, General USMC, in my Jeremiah line, but he was b. 1904 TX and I know of no other occurrence of the name "Harlan" in our Jeremiah line.
Mordecai Cloud (1729-1801) b. Chester cty, PA, married Ann HARLAN and had a son named Harlan Cloud in 1760. Somewhere in the line of Mordecai and Ann (Harlan) Cloud seems like a logical place for a man named Harlan Cloud, but I can't find the family for this particular George Harlan Cloud and his father Harlan Cloud.
thanks,
Tom