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I'm looking for the family of James Thomas Cloud b. 1878 in California who married Lilly May Wilson.
Ken's site says his parents were James Dickens and Helen Cloud. This can't be correct (see previous email). Ken's data says he was born in Oregon but in the 1920 census, James says he was born in California and his death record says he was born in California.
I have been unable to find James and Lilly in any other census?? ... nor their daughter Vina / Vinia.
The 1920 census says James Thomas Cloud's parents were born in ILL and CA (James Dickens Cloud was born in KY).
1920 census, WA, King, Seattle, ed 336, 10-A, (T625-1931, 212)
Jan 15, 1920, 4632 SW Macquire(?) Way, HH 305/361
Cloud, James T, head, M, W, 41, CA, IL, CA
" , Lilly L, wife, F, W, 37, CA, OR, OR
" , Vinia L, dau, 18, OR, CA, CA
" , James R, son, 16, CA
Lilly May Wilson, James Thomas' wife's parents were both born in OR. Her mother's maiden name was BABCOCK.
Here is three generations of what I have for them:
1-Cloud
b: in Illinois
+(Mrs. Cloud)
b: in California
. . 2-James Thomas Cloud
b: AUG 31, 1878 in California
d: MAY 25, 1952 in Placer county, California
. . +Lilly May Wilson
b: MAY 2, 1882 in Shasta county, California
m: abt 1901
d: APR 25, 1947 in Placer county, California
. . . . 3-Vina Louise Cloud
b: JUN 29, 1901 in Oregon
d: MAR 15, 1980 in San Mateo county, California
. . . . +Watson
. . . . 3-James Robert Cloud
b: DEC 24, 1903 in California
d: MAY 6, 1981 in Auburn, Placer county, California
. . . . +Mildred Rosetta Wray
b: NOV 20, 1908 in Elk, Spokane county, Washington
m: abt 1924 in California
d: MAR 22, 1986 in Foresthill, Placer county, California
Remote possibility of his parents being Andrew Jackson Cloud (s/o Baylis Cloud & Elizabeth Tebbs) and Sarah Foreman. In the 1880 census, A.J. gives his place of birth as Illinois and Sarah's birth place is given as CA. The problem with this is there is no James Cloud in their household in 1880 -- possibly explained by him being born after the enumeration and subsequently giving an erroneous birth date.
1880 census, CA, Sacramento, Sacramento 3 wrd, p. 18th, sd 2, ed 84, (T9-71, 137)
June 7, 1880, 140 14th Street, HH 260/267
Cloud, AJ, W, M, 51, carpenter, IL, OH, --
" , Sarah C, W, F, 39, wife, CA, --, VA
" , Grace W, 6, dau, CA, OH, IL
-HH 260/268
Kramer, H, W,m F, 50, Bavaria, Bavaria, Bavaria
Groos, Edwin, W, M, 22, son, CA, Prussia, Bavaria
" , James, 21, son, CA, Prussia, Bavaria
thanks,
Tom
Ken,
I am trying to find out about James Thomas Cloud ... found him on your site as son of James Dickens Cloud
http://cloudgenweb.com/getperson.php?personID=I10948&tree=cloudtree1
I don't believe that is correct ... and I'm writing the list (and you) to see if we can straighten this out.
At the bottom you have a note that James Dickens Cloud married Lucy and had 5 children ... and that is true. But, he never married anyone named Ellen or Helen. Here is the proof -- he's married to Lucy from 1860 through 1910 (and they do not have a child named James):
-
1860 census, KY, Boone, Burlington, p. 60, (M653-355, 302)
June 22, 1860, HH 451/439, all b. KY
James D Cloud, 23, M
Lucy, 21, F
Richard E, 3, M
Flora(?) E, 6/12, F
-
1870 census, KY, Boone, Burlington, p 6, (M593-446, 156)
June 2, 1870, HH 46/46
Cloude, James B, 33, M, W, farmer, $8000, $1380, KY
" , Lucy, 31, F, W, KY
" , Richard E, 13, M
" , Eunus, 10, M
" , Norah J, 8, F
" , John W, 5, M
" , Alley, 1, M
Folan, Walter, 21, M, W, KY
Carpenter, Belle, 18, F, W, KY
Campbell, Claborn, 45, M, W, grist miller, KY
-
1880 census, KY, Boone, Burlington, p 25, sd 4, ed 27, (T9-403, 456)
June 16, 1880, HH 266
Cloud, James, W, M, 44, KY, VA, KY
" , Lucy, W, F, 42, wife, KY, KY, KY
" , Edward, 23, son, KY, KY, KY
" , W. John, 15, son, KY, KY, KY
-
1900 census, KY, Boone, Burlington, ed 1, 11-A, (T623-507, 250)
June 19, 1900, HH 229/233
Cloud, James, head, W, M, Sept 1836, 63, m 44 yrs, KY, VA, VA
" , Lucy, wife, W, F, Sep 1838, 61, m 44 yrs, 5/3 children, KY, VA, KY
" , Edward R, son, June 1857, 42, KY, KY, KY
" , John W, son, Dec 1864, 35, KY, KY, KY
-
1910 census, KY, Boone, Burlington, ed 2, 8-A, ( T624-462, 218)
April 27, 1910, HH 176/177
Cloud, James D, head, M, W, 73, m1 54 yrs, KY, VA, VA
" , Lucy, wife, F, W, 71, m1 54 yrs, 3/3 children, KY, VA, KY
" , Edward, son, 52, single, KY
" , John, son, M, W, 45, widowed, KY
-
=====
You show that James Dickens Cloud married a Helen (Ellen) Oatey -- here is the James and Ellen you mention:
-
1880 census, OR, Douglas, Calapooia, dist 39, p 12-13, sd 110, ed 39
June 9, 1880, HH 109/111
Cloud, James, W, M, 43, laborer, IN, KY, KY
" , Ellen, W, F, 33, wife, CA, KY, MO
" , Sarah, 14, step-dau, OR, IN, IN
" , Lucy, 12, step-dau, OR, IN, IN
" , Frank, 10, step-son, OR, IN, IN
" , Robert, 8, step-son, OR, IN, IN
" , Charles, 7, OR, IN, IN
" , Libby, 6, dau, OR, IN, CA
" , James, 1, OR, IN, CA
-
Note above that James' and Ellen's first child together, Charles, still has the mother's birthplace of Indiana ... suspect either Charles belongs to Ellen's previous husband or there is a mistake there.
Since James and Lucy are in Burlington, KY in 1880, the above is not James Dickens Cloud.
I will write with my questions about James Thomas Cloud next. Maybe together we can straighten this out.
Tom
Another researcher and I need help with a John Cloud on the 1850 census in Medina county, Texas who is living with a MOONEY family.
This man may be a key in the puzzle of the John Cloud who married Paulina Breiten:
http://mykindred.com/cloud/TX/getperson.php?personID=I139598&tree=mykindr...
You may see the census record here:
http://mykindred.com/cloud/TX/Documents/census/1850/1850-TX,Medina,MOONEY...
This is my transcription of the census:
1850, TX, Medina cty, on the Medina river above Castroville, reel M432-912,
p.378
Oct 27, 1850 by Henry K. Judd, HH 8/8, lines 26-36
James Mooney, 50, M, farmer, Germany
Margaret " , 38, F, Germany
John Cloud, 17, M, laborer, Germany
James Mooney, 15, M, ", Germany
John B " , 13, M, Germany
Eubowe(?) " , 11, M, Germany
Frank " , 9, M, Germany
Phillip " , 7, Germany
Margaret " , 5, TX
Francisca " , 2, F, TX
Louisa " , 7/12, F, TX
Perhaps Margaret, 38 born Germany, first married a Cloud and had John. She then married James Mooney and had the rest of the children. This is the first Cloud I've seen born in Germany. (I really wonder but what the Germany for birth place isn't a mistake.)
... so, I looked up all Clouds born in Germany on Heritage Quest and found these (this John isn't here because they don't have 1850 indexed):
CLOUD, Arnold, 28, M, W, Germ, NY, Richmond, Middleton, 1860
CLOUD, Charles, 23, M, W, Germ, CA, Solano, Montezuma Twp, 1860
CLOUD, Charlotte, 20, F, W, Germ, MD, Baltimore, 4-Wd Baltimore, 1860
CLOUD, Emma, 27, F, W, Germ, TX, Travis, 7-Wd; Austin, 1880
CLOUD, Louis, 36, M, W, Germ, SD, Clark, Lake Twp, 1900
CLOUD, Nicholas, 43, M, W, Germ, MO, Cole, Osage Twp, 1860
CLOUD, Robert, 43, M, W, Germ, PA, Philadelphia, 40-Wd Philadelphia, 1900
CLOUD, Robert, 48, M, W, Germ, PA, Philadelphia, 40-Wd Philadelphia, 1910
CLOUD, Robert, 53, M, W, Germ, PA, Philadelphia, 40-Wd Philadelphia, 1920
CLOUD, Walter, 22, M, W, Germ, IL, Cook, 13-Wd Chicago, 1900
CLOUD, Wilhelmena, 53, F, W, Germ, KY, Campbell, Newport, 1880
CLOUD, Wilhemina, 76, F, W, Germ, KY, Campbell, 3-Wd Newport, 1900
Any and all help appreciated.
thanks,
Tom Cloud
Laura,
What I should have said first -- the maximum benefit can be derived by getting cousins to test. FTDNA recommends second or third cousins, though one of every first cousin (who are not brothers) would nail down the DNA signature for their grandfather (assuming the lines haven't daughtered out). Comparing that signature with that of their second cousins would nail down the signature of their great grandfather, and so on. It is probably not practical -- or even possible -- to find a male first cousin from every branch (i.e. one son at the end of every branch on the tree), but that's what I look for.
In our project we have several well defined lines even though only a couple of people have tested -- and some of those lines go back 7 or 8 or more generations before they have a common ancestor with another line.
The need for testing many cousins occurs when there is a mutational difference and we can't determine in which generation it occurred -- i.e. we can't be certain exactly what branch that mutation defines.
Example -- let's say your brother's "signature" is 3775. If another brother is also 3775, all we learn is what we already knew -- DNA changes very slowly, and their father's signature is 3775. If the second brother's signature is different -- say 3776 -- we then know that one of them experienced a mutation (it is remotely possible each of them experienced a mutation). Were the father to have 3775 as his signature, we'd know the mutation occurred at the birth of the second son.
If a sample of the father's DNA isn't available, we can extrapolate its value by having cousins test -- since they share the same grandfather. If all the cousins test and their signature is 3775 then we can be certain that was the grandfather's signature and he passed it to his sons.
It's not really as simple as that -- we have from 12 to 67 numbers to look at, and we rarely have the luxury of having even two cousins test. Having the lines with verified pedigrees is of great importance to us, as they provide an underpinning on which we can begin to sort out the undocumented lines.
Perhaps the best way to help the project is to try to recruit a first or second cousin and maybe consider helping them pay for it or perhaps contribute to the general DNA Project fund.
thanks,
Tom
At 03:22 PM 2/28/2008, I wrote:
>Laura,
>
>I can't see how having siblings test will add any useful information.
... snip
Tom
I thought the CFA had said something about poss assistance in fuinding
testing to those short on funds. Sounds like Laura might have a couple
folks that would pay dividends by testing. I would be willing to add 50
bucks towards this fund. Wond what powers that be in cfa would think
along these lines?
Ken Cloud
Laura & Joe wrote:
> Tom & Others
> Since I do not understand completely how the DNA research works, can I ask
> an uneducated question?
> I got my father's DNA (Noah>John B> Jeremiah T> Sampson C> Archibald H>
> Hamilton W) and entered it into your research. I have two brothers, would
> their DNA help?
> I have access to males from the lineage of Noah>John B>Jeremiah T>Preston
> Glenn>Joseph Hazel. Would that help more? I have a connection to reach the
> only male from the line of Noah>James Carrell>Andrew Jackson>Andrew
> Jackson>John Wylie>Gerald.
>
> I firmly believe that your Jeremiah is the son of my Noah (No proof, just
> gut feeling) and I would love to help prove it. If we can start a fund to
> help pay for those tests of folks that are hesitant because of the price,
> maybe we could get more DNA. If you decide on this, count me in for $50.
> Just the ramblings of an old Cloud researcher.
> Laura
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Cloud" <tcloud(a)austin.rr.com>
> To: <cloud(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:05 AM
> Subject: [CLOUD] Prognostication about finding Twiggs cty Jeremiah's father
>
>
>
>> This is essentially a DNA related comment -- and applies to everyone who
>> is looking to resolve their brick-wall ancestor.
>>
>> Here is my humble prediction about what will eventually come to pass in
>> the long and tedious search for the father of "my" Twiggs county Jeremiah.
>>
>> 1 - I am not confident we will ever know his name -- at least not with
>> 100% certainty. We must find written documentation to do that.
>>
>> 2 - I am confident we will narrow down his father to a specific line
>> within a generation or two (we're close to that now).
>>
>> What is needed?
>>
>> In order to determine the line he came from with the most accuracy, we
>> need to get more male descendants from those lines to join the DNA
>> project.
>>
>> What this does -- this allows us to work backward from the man who tested
>> and to compare his results with that of his cousin(s). In so doing, as we
>> work our way back up the lineage, we can identify where the differences in
>> the DNA signature occurred. This must be done in both the Jeremiah branch
>> and in the branch(es) he appears to be most closely related to.
>>
>> What to expect:
>>
>> We can expect, at some point, to be able to look at those results and know
>> at exactly which generation and even which man experienced the
>> differentiating DNA mutation. Our Jeremiah will belong to the branch his
>> DNA signature exactly matches.
>>
>> Caveats:
>>
>> This requires some "suitable" large number of tests in order to pinpoint
>> where each mutation occurred. I've tried to come up with a "formula" for
>> determining how many people should test, but I can't. If we had one male
>> from each tip of the tree -- i.e. all first cousins -- we'd definitely
>> have enough, but this isn't always possible and may not even be practical.
>>
>> (When I write "all first cousins" I don't mean everyone -- not brothers --
>> but a representative from each branch. That would mean one male from each
>> father at the tip of the tree.)
>>
>> The scenario I expect:
>>
>> When we get the necessary data, and when it is properly analyzed, we will
>> know with virtual certainty which branch Jeremiah's father came from. We
>> will be able to guess at which man in the line (which generation) was his
>> father or grandfather by looking at the dates of births. What we cannot
>> know for certain is if one of the sons -- our Jeremiah's father,
>> grandfather, etc. -- disappeared without leaving a written record. This
>> is because the guy who disappeared has the same DNA signature as his
>> brothers and his father and his sons and nephews -- assuming no mutation
>> occurred in those generations (the mutation is what identifies a new
>> branch and it is inherited by all the men descended from the man who
>> experienced it).
>>
>> The best (I believe) we can hope for:
>>
>> When we have identified the line and approximate father or grandfather, we
>> can zero in on that family and research the dickens out of it. The
>> coolest thing that could happen would be for the person above Jeremiah's
>> father (his grandfather) and a person below him (his first cousin) to
>> experience a mutation -- those mutations would allow us to specifically
>> identify one generation as being where Jeremiah's line intersects.
>>
>> Maybe we will get lucky and find a legal document or a newspaper article
>> that provides the final clue. Maybe we will dig up someone who has a
>> family Bible that provides our answer. But we can't be certain of
>> Jeremiah's father without that written documentation.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> ===========================================
>> Share your Cloud family history here.
>> Join the Cloud Family Association
>> http://mykindred.com/cloud/
>> (The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud
>> family.
>> It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any commercial
>> enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>
> ===========================================
> Share your Cloud family history here.
> Join the Cloud Family Association
> http://mykindred.com/cloud/
> (The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud family.
> It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any commercial enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
Laura,
I can't see how having siblings test will add any useful information. If a son tests and his results differ markedly from what is expected, we might assume an adoption or mixup at the hospital or worse and test the brother. But if the son's DNA signature differs only slightly from what is expected, we normally look at the signatures of the cousins to infer where the mutation occurred. If all the cousins are the same -- and differ from the son -- then a test of a brother could tell if the mutation occurred within their immediate family -- if the brothers are the same, then we know the mutation occurred with their father (if the first cousins are the same). Understand?
IOW, If the first cousins are the same, we know the grandfather had that signature. If one of the cousins differs, we know either he or his father had the mutation (since the grandfather has the signature of the rest of the cousins).
I call this "voting". To get a useful "vote", you need enough samples from a branch to assure the majority vote represents the signature of their common ancestor. If brothers differ, it would mean that one of them had the mutation. Knowing which one would only be useful if we're trying to eliminate that mutation (IOW we are confused about where that family belongs in the larger tree).
We need to isolate mutations that occur further up the line -- as knowing an accurate signature for two branches helps us know whether they're related or not.
All your brothers should have the exact same Y-DNA. Your father should also have it as should his father and consequently your male first cousins.
When a mutation occurs, it becomes the new signature for all the male progeny of that man. If we test third cousins (same great grandfather) and their signatures are the same, we can assume that signature defines everyone from the great grandfather on down. We also assume the signature proceeds further up the line. Once we find a branch with a different signature, we need to find out where it occurs. We do that by getting cousins of that branch to test.
I know this is confusing -- and I know that if I understood it better, I could explain it better.
When there is a difference in the signatures of a branch, we need more tests of cousins (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc). (Testing brothers only resolves back to their father.)
DNA is just another clue, and it can be just as confusing as trying to find out where a spurious John Cloud you find on an 1850 census fits into the family -- see email to follow.
Tom
At 02:22 PM 2/28/2008, you wrote:
>Tom & Others
>Since I do not understand completely how the DNA research works, can I ask an uneducated question?
>I got my father's DNA (Noah>John B> Jeremiah T> Sampson C> Archibald H> Hamilton W) and entered it into your research. I have two brothers, would their DNA help?
>I have access to males from the lineage of Noah>John B>Jeremiah T>Preston Glenn>Joseph Hazel. Would that help more? I have a connection to reach the only male from the line of Noah>James Carrell>Andrew Jackson>Andrew Jackson>John Wylie>Gerald.
>
>I firmly believe that your Jeremiah is the son of my Noah (No proof, just gut feeling) and I would love to help prove it. If we can start a fund to help pay for those tests of folks that are hesitant because of the price, maybe we could get more DNA. If you decide on this, count me in for $50. Just the ramblings of an old Cloud researcher.
>Laura
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Author: jannyintn
Surnames: CLOUD
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/1060.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I am Caroline's ggdaughter, through son George B. Norman. After marriage she went by "Missouri." I have seen her father's name spelled Burrell and Burwell and now Burl.
Family insisted that she was of American Indian descent, but I have found no evidence of that in any of my research. Know anything about that? (My great aunts went on about it.)
I will email you off board to trade info. Great to meet you, cousin! Janet
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Author: tmillers87
Surnames: Cloud,Goff,Hill,Miller
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cloud/1060.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Hi I am Mary Annie's gggranddaughter, her daughter Iva Victoria Hill Miller is my ggrandmother -she married John Tilden Miller of Grandview Ark and my grandfather Olen Burwell was named after Grandpa Burwell or Pap as Mamaw called him. She said Pap had a beautiful singing voice and was a singing teacher, apple tree salesman and a tenant farmer. He lost his eyesight before he died. She said Caroline (Callie they called her) was a very pretty woman with dark skin and long straight hair. I remember when I was little Mamaw liked her hair combed she always wore it in a bun but it was down past her waist when it was down. I have some more interesting things I would be happy to share what I have. my email is tlmillers(a)yahoo.com.
Trisa
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Author: shallowdee
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
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Message Board Post:
Hi I am not sure if you are the same person I had just responded to or not? Jamie Cloud was my second cousin. My mother is Dorothea Lee Vance, daughter of Lovis Vance? Jamie was my aunt May's? son?
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Author: shallowdee
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
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Message Board Post:
Hi
Believe it or not I just got information that you had responded to my posting on Jamie Cloud. Do you know him and it is my relation? My mother is Dorothea Vance, daughter of Lovis Mitchell Vance?
Thanks
Dee
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This is essentially a DNA related comment -- and applies to everyone who is looking to resolve their brick-wall ancestor.
Here is my humble prediction about what will eventually come to pass in the long and tedious search for the father of "my" Twiggs county Jeremiah.
1 - I am not confident we will ever know his name -- at least not with 100% certainty. We must find written documentation to do that.
2 - I am confident we will narrow down his father to a specific line within a generation or two (we're close to that now).
What is needed?
In order to determine the line he came from with the most accuracy, we need to get more male descendants from those lines to join the DNA project.
What this does -- this allows us to work backward from the man who tested and to compare his results with that of his cousin(s). In so doing, as we work our way back up the lineage, we can identify where the differences in the DNA signature occurred. This must be done in both the Jeremiah branch and in the branch(es) he appears to be most closely related to.
What to expect:
We can expect, at some point, to be able to look at those results and know at exactly which generation and even which man experienced the differentiating DNA mutation. Our Jeremiah will belong to the branch his DNA signature exactly matches.
Caveats:
This requires some "suitable" large number of tests in order to pinpoint where each mutation occurred. I've tried to come up with a "formula" for determining how many people should test, but I can't. If we had one male from each tip of the tree -- i.e. all first cousins -- we'd definitely have enough, but this isn't always possible and may not even be practical.
(When I write "all first cousins" I don't mean everyone -- not brothers -- but a representative from each branch. That would mean one male from each father at the tip of the tree.)
The scenario I expect:
When we get the necessary data, and when it is properly analyzed, we will know with virtual certainty which branch Jeremiah's father came from. We will be able to guess at which man in the line (which generation) was his father or grandfather by looking at the dates of births. What we cannot know for certain is if one of the sons -- our Jeremiah's father, grandfather, etc. -- disappeared without leaving a written record. This is because the guy who disappeared has the same DNA signature as his brothers and his father and his sons and nephews -- assuming no mutation occurred in those generations (the mutation is what identifies a new branch and it is inherited by all the men descended from the man who experienced it).
The best (I believe) we can hope for:
When we have identified the line and approximate father or grandfather, we can zero in on that family and research the dickens out of it. The coolest thing that could happen would be for the person above Jeremiah's father (his grandfather) and a person below him (his first cousin) to experience a mutation -- those mutations would allow us to specifically identify one generation as being where Jeremiah's line intersects.
Maybe we will get lucky and find a legal document or a newspaper article that provides the final clue. Maybe we will dig up someone who has a family Bible that provides our answer. But we can't be certain of Jeremiah's father without that written documentation.
Tom
I have a Anthony Percivak Cloud, b 1 apr 1837, d 8 mar 1920, IA, marr
Margaret Clancy; had a bro Clinton Cl;oud. Father was Thomas Cloud.
Had children;
Thomas
Lydia J.
Mary J. (bertha)
James
my notes:
b, d, marr dates/places from FGSs by Jim Brewton, 14802 Northwood Dr.,
Magalia CA 95954
General Index to Pension Files:
Anthony P. Cloud, Widow Margaret Cloud, Service: Co. E, 11th Ind. Inf.
Class: Invalid, Appl #983683, cert. #696665. Livingin Kansas, Widow,
Appl. #1154429. cert #902024.
living in Illinois.
Marr records of Adams Co., In 1836-1900:
Anthony P. Cloud to Margaret Clancy, 24 Dec 1857, by Harris Morls
US Cen 1900 soundex, 212 w. 3rd St, Peru, Miami Co, Ind 53-103-13-86:
Cloud, Margaret w f MIL May 1836 64 P.
Living with John W. Wells.:
Ken Cloud
Tom Cloud wrote:
> Lura,
>
> you've outdone yourself on this ... great!
>
> Tom
>
> At 05:34 PM 2/24/2008, you wrote:
>
>> So, since you have said that you don not have a family to assign Frank, I
>> decided to do a little searching...I found a Franklin in Indiana in the 1880
>> census who is about the right age...he is the only Frank I found in Indiana.
>>
>> 1880 census, Washington, Adams Cty, IN, taken 3 Jun, p. 136B, family # 28
>>
>> Thomas Cloud, 74, widowed, farmer, PA, PA, PA
>> Clintton Cloud, 29, son, farmer, OH, PA, PA
>> Eliza J., 21, daughter-in-law, IN, PA, PA
>> Letta M., 5, granddaughter, IN, OH, IN
>> Franklin, 3, grandson, IN, OH, IN
>> Joseph, 1, grandson, IN, OH, IN
>>
>
> .... snip
>
> ===========================================
> Share your Cloud family history here.
> Join the Cloud Family Association
> http://mykindred.com/cloud/
> (The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud family.
> It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any commercial enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
In a message dated 2/24/2008 9:59:23 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
tcloud(a)austin.rr.com writes:
1-Thomas Cloud
b: abt 1806 in Ohio
+Sarah (Mrs. Thomas Cloud)
b: abt 1808 in Pennsylvania
d: bef 1870
. . 2-Aquila Cloud
b: abt 1827 in Pennsylvania
. . 2-Amanda Cloud
b: abt 1828 in Pennsylvania
. . 2-Passable (?Possible?) Cloud
b: abt 1836 in Pennsylvania
. . 2-Mary Cloud
b: abt 1842 in Ohio
. . 2-Eliot Cloud
b: abt 1846 in Ohio
. . 2-Clinton Cloud
b: AUG 1847 in Ohio
based on what I found in the Census, I think Eliot would be Thomas E. and
Clinton is either CLinton S or Clinton B....I went back and looked at both
census and sure enough ...they look like a B and an S, respectively.
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At 09:34 PM 2/24/2008, Lura Black wrote:
>Thank you...Now I thought I would actually take a look at your deadend pages
>and see if I can help in any way....
>
>Lura
Here is what I now have for Reba's family ancestry -- don't have a clue about Thomas Cloud's ancestry. This isn't on the mykindred site yet -- maybe tomorrow, so the supporting docs can be seen there.
BTW, Reba divorced Walter Holland before the April 1930 census -- he's living alone as a boarder in Hot Springs then. She and her sister, Iva Ford are living with their parents in 1930. Don't know what happened to Iva's husband -- the census says she's married, but she and their son are with her parents and he's not.
1-Thomas Cloud
b: abt 1806 in Ohio
+Sarah (Mrs. Thomas Cloud)
b: abt 1808 in Pennsylvania
d: bef 1870
. . 2-Aquila Cloud
b: abt 1827 in Pennsylvania
. . 2-Amanda Cloud
b: abt 1828 in Pennsylvania
. . 2-Passable (?Possible?) Cloud
b: abt 1836 in Pennsylvania
. . 2-Mary Cloud
b: abt 1842 in Ohio
. . 2-Eliot Cloud
b: abt 1846 in Ohio
. . 2-Clinton Cloud
b: AUG 1847 in Ohio
. . +Eliza J. (Mrs. Clinton Cloud)
b: FEB 1847 in Indiana
m: abt 1873
. . . . 3-Letta M. Cloud
b: AUG 1875 in Indiana
. . . . 3-Franklin T. Cloud
b: FEB 1877 in Indiana
. . . . +Minnie (Mrs. Frank T. Cloud)
b: abt 1882 in Indiana
m: abt 1900
. . . . . . 4-Reba Ione Cloud
b: abt 1903 in Indiana
. . . . . . +Walter Holland
b: abt 1890 in Arkansas
m: MAR 31, 1920 in Garland county, Arkansas
. . . . . . 4-Iva Cloud
b: abt 1906 in Michigan
. . . . . . +Ford
b: in Missouri
. . . . . . . . 5-Richard W. Ford
b: abt AUG 1929 in Arkansas
. . . . . . 4-Richard J. Cloud
b: abt 1909 in Indiana
. . . . . . 4-Catherine Cloud
b: abt 1912 in Arkansas
. . . . 3-Joseph Cloud
b: abt 1879 in Indiana
. . . . 3-Lula B. Cloud
b: JUL 1880 in Indiana
. . . . 3-Harry S. Cloud
b: AUG 1883 in Indiana
. . . . 3-Jessie L. Cloud
b: JAN 1885 in Indiana
. . . . 3-Mary E. Cloud
b: SEP 1887 in Indiana
. . . . 3-Charles Cloud
b: MAR 1891 in Indiana
In a message dated 2/24/2008 7:32:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
tcloud(a)austin.rr.com writes:
Lura,
you've outdone yourself on this ... great!
Tom
Thank you...Now I thought I would actually take a look at your deadend pages
and see if I can help in any way....
Lura
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In a message dated 2/17/2008 7:06:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, kec(a)cox.net
writes:
I have a Reba I Cloud, b abt 1904 in IN, dau of Frank T. Cloud and
Minnie. I do not have frank connected to any cloud line
US Census 1920 soundex, Bell Ave, Garlan Co, AR 22-73-9-22:
Cloud,
Frank T. w m head 44 Ind
Minnie w f wife 32 Ind
Reba I w f dau 16 Ind
Iva w f dau 15 Mich
richard w m son 11 Ind
Catherine w f dau 8 Ark
Ken Cloud
Tom Cloud wrote:
> What family does Reba Ione Cloud belong to -- b. ca 1903 ?
>
> Walter Holland, 30
> Reba Ione Cloud, 17
> m. Mar. 31, 1920 Garland cty, AR
So, since you have said that you don not have a family to assign Frank, I
decided to do a little searching...I found a Franklin in Indiana in the 1880
census who is about the right age...he is the only Frank I found in Indiana.
1880 census, Washington, Adams Cty, IN, taken 3 Jun, p. 136B, family # 28
Thomas Cloud, 74, widowed, farmer, PA, PA, PA
Clintton Cloud, 29, son, farmer, OH, PA, PA
Eliza J., 21, daughter-in-law, IN, PA, PA
Letta M., 5, granddaughter, IN, OH, IN
Franklin, 3, grandson, IN, OH, IN
Joseph, 1, grandson, IN, OH, IN
so from there I can look back a little further...
1870 census, Decator, Washington, Adams Cty, IN, taken 20 Jun, p. 134B &
135A, family #114
Thomas Cloud, 64, PA, farmer
Clinton Cloud, 20, OH, farmer
1870 census, Decator, Washington, Adams Cty, IN, page 144
Thomas Cloud, 24, printer or painter, OH, polled with Richard Leukert/Sukert
(born in Saxony) and his family
1860 census, Decator, Washington, Adams Cty, taken 11 Jun, family 214,
page/sheet 31 & 32
Thomas Cloud, 54, PA, farmer
Mary Cloud, 17, housekeeper, OH
Thomas E. Cloud, 14, OH
Clinton S, Cloud, 10, OH
1850 census, Cincinnati, Hamilton Cty, OH, taken 26 Jul, family #165, page #
is interesting...it covers a B page followed by the A page. The A page has
2 numbers stamped on it....# 192 and #383. It would appear to be pages 191B
& 192A??.
Thomas Cloud, 46, farmer, PA
Sarah Cloud, 42, PA
Aquila Cloud, 23, PA, male
Amanda Cloud, 22, PA
Possible Cloud, 14, PA, male
Mary Cloud, 8, OH
Eliot Cloud, 4, OH
Clinton B. Cloud, 9 months, OH
Mikell E. Davis, 45, carpenter, England
1840 census..would appear to still be in Cincinnati..
Thomas Cloud...males: under 5 = 1, 30 - 40= 1; females: 5 - 10=1, 10-15=1,
30-40=1; no free colored persons; 1 person employed in manufacturing and
trades (I believe this is incorrect. Boy would be Aquila and he would be 13)
There is one other Cloud family in Cincinnati...J. Cloud
males: under 5-10 = 1, 30 - 40= 1; females: 5 - 10=1, 30-40=1
1830 census..Thomas would appear to be in Chester Cty, PA. There are 2
Thomas's in Chester, but he would appear to be the one in Schuylkill - based on
ages listed. There are several other Cloud families living in Chester County
but in other cities.
Thomas Cloud...males: under 5 = 1, 20 - 30= 1; females: under 5=1, 20-30=1;
Maybe this information will help in finding a "home" for Frank? Going
forward...Can't seem to find Frank in 1900 (maybe he was off on his honeymoon.
Based on 1910 census, he got married in 1900.), but it might be Joseph living
in Buffalo, Dunkin, MO as a boarder.
1900 census, Washington, Adams Cty, IN, taken 19 Jun, family # 210,
Clinton Cloud, born Aug 1847, 52, married 27 yrs, OH, PA, PA, farmer
Lizzie J., b: Feb 1847, 53, married 27 yrs, 8 children, 8 living, IN, PA, OH
Letta M., b: Aug 1875, 24, IN
Lula B., b: Jul 1880, 19, IN
Harry S., b: Aug 1883, 16, IN
Jessie L., b: Jan 1885, 15, IN, male
Mary E., b: Sep 1887, 12, IN
Charles, b: Mar 1891, 9, IN
1910 census, Decatur, Washington, Adams Cty, IN, taken 15 Apr, p. 187,
family 26
Frank Cloud, 33, married 10 yrs, IN, IN, IN, wagon carpenter
Minnie, wife, 29, married 10 yrs, 4 children, 3 living, IN, IN, IN
Reba, daughter, 7, IN, IN, IN
Iva, daughter, 5, IN, IN, IN
Richard, son, 1, IN, IN, IN
1910 census, Decatur, Washington, Adams Cty, IN, taken 18 Apr, p. 171,
family 31
Clinton Cloud, 62, married 37 yrs, OH, OH, OH, farmer
Liza Jane Cloud, 63, married 37 yrs, 8 children, 6 living, IN, PA, OH
Mary E. Cloud, 23, IN, bookkeeper
Charles Cloud, 17, IN, bricklayer
Guess this is about it....
Lura
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Marion,
I don't disagree with anything you wrote -- my questions are to try to clear my muddled understanding of things. It's interesting to me how we assign attributes to one another that may not be accurate. Harley just wrote and indicated he thought I was a genealogist -- I doubt Sherrill or Jan would concur. I consider myself a tinkerer, a "family historian" set into a particular niche I've defined for myself. Like Ken, I like to aggregate the known data into one place, hoping it will benefit someone in their research -- and I "hope" it's accurate.
(My other "problem" ... I have so many people writing that I can't keep up, so I try to get people to "talk" reeeeeel sloooow and explain things in detail. Some people write me using family nicknames without thinking that I don't have a clue who they're talking about ... or they responsd to an email I sent them 24 hours or longer ago without including the body of my message to them ... if it's more than a couple of hours, it didn't happen for me <grin> ... I need my old memory jogged back onto the subject they're addressing. I hope you understand -- I'm trying to provide a service and I need things very clear since I don't have the time to dig into and research everything sent to me.)
I am astounded at the depth of knowledge you have of the minutiae surrounding the families you've told me about. When I say "I can't find" ... that's all it means, nothing more is implied or intended. It doesn't mean I disagree or that I'm arguing -- I just want to feel comfortable with what I'm about to add to the data compilation I manage. I try to not add information to my data based on conjecture -- not mine or anyone else's, and if I don't understand it, then it is my conjecture based on what someone tells me. I've never figured out how to incorporate theories into the data without giving them the appearance of fact ... one of my many dilemmas with the website.
When people write things to me, I want to feel like I can tell them I don't understand and my questions (or "objections") are my way of telling them that. The details you just gave about the similarity of the places and times -- I was unaware of that and I agree with you that it is a very important consideration. I can also believe Cloud families could live together and believe they're related solely because of their common surname -- and this may well have happened in this instance.
I really appreciate your input and find it very interesting -- why don't you write some of this up -- maybe I can publish it on the mykindred site if you like or Cecil might be interested in having it for the CFA Journal ? ... you have a real gift for finding and illuminating details that I don't have.
Tom
At 11:36 AM 2/24/2008, you wrote:
>Tom,
>Joseph's middle initial was C. He had a younger brother named Cicero.
>
>Now, let me back track a little. Olive's question was "Could Emma Harriet born in Va be the name sake of her Jane Harriet in GA?" That is the message or question that I was trying to address. Given the research that I had done on James and Elisha long before the DNA test results, I thought it a given and clear to everyone that these two lines were not close Cloud Blood.
>
>The relation that I tried to draw attention to was "Time and Place". Ruth Cloud White's statement to me that she was named after Ruth Collins Cloud as told to her by her father is "fact". Ruth Collins Cloud was dead and family living in another state but that does not negate the possibility of her being the woman that "my Ruth was named after". It is rather the very definition of namesake.
>
>Joseph Cloud named a son "William Wilson". That is an odd choice to name a son given certain facts. Joseph had a contemporary living less than 20 miles away with that name and "Wilson" has not appeared in my line before or since.Joseph joined the Army in Marion County but joined a church in Crawford County days before he left for service. Given "time and place" and circumstance it is a good theory that there was interaction between these Cloud Clans. Possibly strong enough to warrant the naming of a child.
>
>In a "qualified statement" I related this line, Harriett was the sister of Elisha as told to me by Melton researchers. Now because someone says something it is not necessarily true conversely because you have never heard of something before it is not necessarily false. I could not find any reference to a sister either. But documented evidence aside, I passed on what I believed was a clue. It is my belief that a generation of men who had mothers and daughters could also have sisters. The sisters are hard to find because of few census records, they got married at 14 and changed their names, they didn't vote, serve on juries, buy or sell property and were normally referred to as "wife of". We don't know Elisha's grandmother but I am certain that he had one.
>
>Harriet Cloud did exist. She may have been the widow of some cloud or could have been someone's sister. She lived within 20 miles of Elisha's home at a time when he lived in Georgia. She married the father of Jane Melton Cloud wife of James. Somewhere in Elisha's clan there was a son named James...James is so common that I didn't mention it.
>
>We should not be quick to rule out any possibility because documents aren't readily available or information is new and untested. Keep in mind that we are talking about a time when the next generation would load their wagons and strike out for a new territory where they could build their own farms and a new life. 3 or 4 brothers and their spouses along with brothers =in-law, 1st and 2nd cousins their spouses and an occasional aunt and uncle would form these wagon trains. When they found their new land they formed a community. Each couple would have 10 or 12 children and they would intermarry. In 2 or 3 generations, everyone in the county was related, Often through the unknown females blood .
>
>The William that I mentioned was on another subject and I thought that you would pick up on the reference. Noah had several sons but only Jeremiah is documented. In Noah's will, He mentions the names William, Ruben and James. All four of these young men lived in the Twiggs/ Wilkinson, Jones/Baldwin area at the same time with a host of families from Edgefield SC. Connecting these young men in time and place and documents from another time and place....soon by DNA.
I'll contribute this: "My" William Wilson Cloud, son of Elisha and Ruth
Collins Cloud, was named for his two grandfathers, William Cloud and Wilson
Collins. ORN
In a message dated 2/24/2008 11:28:10 A.M. Central Standard Time,
marion_cloud(a)msn.com writes:
Tom,
Joseph's middle initial was C. He had a younger brother named Cicero.
Now, let me back track a little. Olive's question was "Could Emma Harriet
born in Va be the name sake of her Jane Harriet in GA?" That is the message or
question that I was trying to address. Given the research that I had done on
James and Elisha long before the DNA test results, I thought it a given and
clear to everyone that these two lines were not close Cloud Blood.
The relation that I tried to draw attention to was "Time and Place". Ruth
Cloud White's statement to me that she was named after Ruth Collins Cloud as
told to her by her father is "fact". Ruth Collins Cloud was dead and family
living in another state but that does not negate the possibility of her being
the woman that "my Ruth was named after". It is rather the very definition of
namesake.
Joseph Cloud named a son "William Wilson". That is an odd choice to name a
son given certain facts. Joseph had a contemporary living less than 20 miles
away with that name and "Wilson" has not appeared in my line before or
since.Joseph joined the Army in Marion County but joined a church in Crawford County
days before he left for service. Given "time and place" and circumstance it
is a good theory that there was interaction between these Cloud Clans.
Possibly strong enough to warrant the naming of a child.
In a "qualified statement" I related this line, Harriett was the sister of
Elisha as told to me by Melton researchers. Now because someone says something
it is not necessarily true conversely because you have never heard of
something before it is not necessarily false. I could not find any reference to a
sister either. But documented evidence aside, I passed on what I believed was
a clue. It is my belief that a generation of men who had mothers and
daughters could also have sisters. The sisters are hard to find because of few census
records, they got married at 14 and changed their names, they didn't vote,
serve on juries, buy or sell property and were normally referred to as "wife
of". We don't know Elisha's grandmother but I am certain that he had one.
Harriet Cloud did exist. She may have been the widow of some cloud or could
have been someone's sister. She lived within 20 miles of Elisha's home at a
time when he lived in Georgia. She married the father of Jane Melton Cloud
wife of James. Somewhere in Elisha's clan there was a son named James...James is
so common that I didn't mention it.
We should not be quick to rule out any possibility because documents aren't
readily available or information is new and untested. Keep in mind that we
are talking about a time when the next generation would load their wagons and
strike out for a new territory where they could build their own farms and a
new life. 3 or 4 brothers and their spouses along with brothers =in-law, 1st
and 2nd cousins their spouses and an occasional aunt and uncle would form these
wagon trains. When they found their new land they formed a community. Each
couple would have 10 or 12 children and they would intermarry. In 2 or 3
generations, everyone in the county was related, Often through the unknown females
blood .
The William that I mentioned was on another subject and I thought that you
would pick up on the reference. Noah had several sons but only Jeremiah is
documented. In Noah's will, He mentions the names William, Ruben and James. All
four of these young men lived in the Twiggs/ Wilkinson, Jones/Baldwin area at
the same time with a host of families from Edgefield SC. Connecting these
young men in time and place and documents from another time and place....soon
by DNA.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Cloud<mailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com>
To: cloud(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:cloud@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: [CLOUD] Emma H. Cloud
Olive and Marion,
I believe Marion refers to the person I have as James Carrell Cloud --
didn't know his wife Jane's surname, Melton, thanks. This James Carrell Cloud did
have a grandson William Wilson Cloud (s/o Joseph Cicero Cloud) -- not the
same person as Olives' William Wilson Cloud.
I have changed James Carrell Cloud's wife's surname to Melton and made her
father McKinney Melton.
I can not find a Harriet/Harriett Cloud who is a sibling of any Elisha
Cloud. Do you know which Elisha Cloud that would be? ... and who their father was?
I only find one Jane Harriett Cloud, and she belongs to Olive's line. She
is the daughter, as you write, of Elisha Cloud and Ruth Collins. Elisha is
the daughter of William Cloud, but there is no record of him having a daughter
named Harriett. Further, as Olive writes, the DNA for their line indicates
they are not related to the Clouds descended from William the immigrant -- or,
to be more precise, the DNA indicates they ARE related, just that their
common ancestor lived thousands or tens of thousands of years ago.
IOW, the DNA evidence indicates that Olive's line is EXTREMELY unlikely to
be recently related -- but there is always the slim hope that their line is
one of the one in a million that has experienced far more mutations than others
-- I keep waiting for that to be proven. Your (Marion's) information could
be a step in that direction. We would need to find DNA evidence from the
line you mention that shows intermediate mutations between those of William the
immigrant and that of Olive's William (and Sarah) Cloud b. 1780-1786 SC.
(The "odds" of a tornado striking anyone's house is something on the order
of one in ten million, but someone's house is hit by a tornado every year.
The DNA evidence is like that -- it is based on "odds" or probabilities. The
evidence it gives for Olive's line is basically like the odds for a tornado
hitting your house -- most likely they are not related to the line of William
the immigrant, but still very, very remotely possible. Their best hope
appears to be having more people from more lines do the DNA test.)
Tom
At 04:50 PM 2/22/2008, you wrote:
>I have had computer problems for a week and am seeing this post for the
>first time today. According to all family research, my Elisha Cloud,
husband of
>Ruth Collins and son of William and Sarah, did not have a sister named
Jane
>Harriett. However, somewhere in my files there is information that there
were
>two William Wilson Clouds. My William Wilson Cloud, son of Elisha Cloud
and
>Ruth Collins, married 1st Sarah Jane Smith, daughter of John M. Smith and
>Mary Camp. He married 2nd Sarah's youngest sister, Susan Elizabeth Smith
>English. Local records confirm this and WW and his wives are buried in
Tryon
>Cemetery of Brazos Co. Also, Elisha Cloud was in Brazos Co, Texas by 1868
--
>without his wife Ruth Collins. Her fate has not been determined. DNA
tests of
>three direct Cloud males from Elisha seem to confirm that this line does
not
>tie in with any of the other lines yet tested. I live in hopes that
William,
>father of Elisha and grandfather of my Jane Harriett, can be traced
further
>back. However, I do not believe this is the lead that I was hoping for.
I
>descend from Elisha Cloud through his son William Wilson Cloud through his
>son William Elisha Cloud, who was my grandfather. Thanks for all efforts
--
>and please be on the lookout for leads. Thanks, Olive Nabors
>
>
>In a message dated 2/19/2008 8:37:19 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>marion_cloud(a)msn.com writes:
>>
>>Tom, I was responding to Olive's inquiry. As is history that covers
several
>>generations and a couple of states, it is hard to follow
>>
>>Jane Melton Married James Cloud. We now believe that James was the son of
>>Noah Cloud of Edgefield SC. Jane's father was Mckinney Melton also of
>>Edgefield. Mckinney's name appears in some of Noah's legal records.
McKinney's wife
>>was Martha Rogers. The Melton's, Rogers and related familys moved from
>>Edgefield to Wilkinson and Baldwin counties in GA. Of course, Later Jones
and
>>Twiggs counties were formed from the previously mentioned counties.Noah's
son
>>Jeremiah died at an early age in Jones co {1812 or 13} Another son lived
in
>>Baldwin Co. for awhile then moved to Bainbridge Ga {Now Decatur CO.}.
James was in
>>Twiggs Co and so was a William Cloud. I now believe that William was
another
>>son of Noah. The next generation moves to the new territory. At any rate
in
>>1821 a new lottery opened the central georgia lands. James Cloud was a
>>fortunate draw in south georgia but sold that piece of land and purchased
land from
>>John Rogers in Crawford co. Crawford , Macon and Marion co are all!
>>connected. The Cloud's, Melton's and Rogers all ended up being neighbors
by
>>design.
>>Now back to your question. Jane Melton married James Cloud. Harriett
Cloud
>>married McKinney Melton {second marriage} I was told that Harriett was a
>>sister of Elisha. I was told by a Melton descendant that Elisha named his
daughter
>>Jane Harriett Cloud in honor of Jane Melton Cloud and Harriett Cloud
Melton.
>>James Cloud had a Grandson named William Wilson Cloud. WW was the son of
>>Joseph{I believe} who for a time lived on property that Jane inherited
from
>>McKinney in Marion Co. That property was sold just before the war and
James moved
>>with several of his children to Macon Co. Al where he bought a piece of
land
>>that had once been a part of LaPlace which is also connected to Noah
Cloud
>>of Edgefield Sc. Jane stayed in Crawford Co with the rest of the Children.
>>Ruth Cloud White told me that her father William Noah Cloud had named her
>>After Ruth Collins Cloud.William Noah and my grandfather Mathew Melton
Cloud
>>were brothers. MM was named after Jane's brother .
>>
>>After reading this I may be creating more questions than providing
answers.
>>Let me here from you if this is as clear as mud.
>>
>>Thanks for all you do,
>>Marion
>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Tom Cloud<mailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com<mailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com>>
>>>To:
cloud(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:cloud@rootsweb.com<mailto:cloud@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:cloud@rootsweb.com>>
>>>Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 8:03 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [CLOUD] Emma H. Cloud
>>>
>>>
>>>Marion,
>>>
>>>I can't follow this, and I apologize. Can you help me with it?
>>>
>>>I inquired about Emma Harriet CLOUD (b. 1880 VA) who m David Workman
(1878
>>>NC).
>>>
>>>Olive was intrigued by the name and asked about a woman in her line
named
>>>Jane Harriett CLOUD (b. 1847 GA), d/o Elisha CLOUD, who m. Warren EDGE.
>>>
>>>You just replied with this note about (I believe) James Carrell Cloud
(b.
>>>1791 SC) and his wife Jane ?? Is that correct?
>>>
>>>The Jane Harriet you refer to below -- are you saying this is Olive's
Jane
>>>Harriet Cloud, b. 1-23-1847 in Macon cty, GA who married Warren Lee
EDGE? She
>>>was the daughter of Elisha Cloud and Ruth Collins. This is one of our
>>>"lost" Cloud lines and any information like that could be of great
significance to
>>>them. (Interesting -- Olive's Jane Harriet Cloud -- her grandfathers
were
>>>William Cloud and Wilson Collins ???)
>>>
>>>Who is Jane Melton Cloud -- and who is Harriett Cloud Melton ? I
apologize
>>>if I'm supposed to know. (Also -- do you know the maiden name of James
>>>Carrell Cloud's wife -- Jane ?)
>>>
>>>thanks,
>>>Tom
>>>
>>>At 06:53 AM 2/17/2008, Marion Cloud wrote:
>>>>Jane Harriett was named after Jane Melton Cloud and Harriett Cloud
Melton.
>>>Jane was the wife of James Cloud... Edgefield SC, Twiggs Co,GA and then
>>>Crawford CO, GA. Crawford and Macon Counties are side by side in Central
GA James
>>>had a G'son named William Wilson and A GGrandaughter named Ruth.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From:
>>>OliveRuthNabors(a)aol.com<mailto:OliveRuthNabors@aol.com<mailto:OliveRuthNabo
rs(a)aol.com%3Cmailto
:OliveRuthNabors@aol.com<mailto:OliveRuthNabors@aol.com%3Cmailto:OliveRuthNabors@aol.com%3Cmailto:OliveRuthNabors@aol.com>>>
>>>> To:
>>>cloud(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:cloud@rootsweb.com<mailto:cloud@rootsweb.com%3Cma
ilto:cloud@rootsweb.com<mailto:cloud@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:cloud@rootsweb.com%
3Cmailto:cloud@rootsweb.com>>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:31 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [CLOUD] Emma H. Cloud
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Since my Elisha named one of his daughters Jane Harriett -- I wonder
if
>>>> there could be a connection between Her and the Emma Harriett Cloud.
>>>Keep a
>>>> lookout -- ORN
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 2/12/2008 6:57:59 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>>>>
>>>tcloud(a)austin.rr.com<mailto:tcloud@austinrr.com<mailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com
%3Cmailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com<mailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com%3Cmailto:tcloud@aus
tin.rr.com%3Cmailto:tcloud@austin.rr.com>>> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologize if I've already sent this -- too much going on but it
>>>>doesn't
>>>>> look like I have.
>>>>>
>>>>> Emma H. CLOUD m. David W. WORKMAN Jan. 15, 1898 in Sullivan cty,
TN.
>>>>> According to the census, he was born circa 1878 in NC. Emma was b.
ca
>>>>1880 in VA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Emma Cloud Workman's censuses indicate both her parents were born
in VA
>>>>>
>>>>> Both David and Emma Cloud Workman died in Upton cty, TX.
>>>>>
>>>>> They had four children that I can find:
>>>>> Cloud (or Claud) Workman b. 2-1899 VA, must have d. bef. 1910 ?
>>>>> Thomas David b. 5-30-1900 VA, d. 1987 Reagan cty, TX
>>>>> Sadie E. b. 1902 VA
>>>>> Elmer C. b. 1906 OH, d. 1951 Upton cty, TX
>>>>>
>>>>> ... looking for the ancestry of Emma Harriett Cloud.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> Tom Cloud
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===========================================
Share your Cloud family history here.
Join the Cloud Family Association
http://mykindred.com/cloud/
(The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud
family.
It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any commercial
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-------------------------------
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**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-...
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
I can add to this -- but still don't know about their family ... looks like they are out of Mexico.
Andela had a relative -- Edward Perez Cloud b. 2-11-1903 in San Antonio (20 years younger than he is). He says his father was Tomas Perez Cloud, born in San Antonio but deceased by 1921. He and his Andela are living together at 516 Ruiz Street in San Antonio and he is a telegraph operator.
thanks,
Tom Cloud
At 08:53 AM 2/23/2008, you wrote:
>Does anyone recognize Andela Perez Cloud?
>
>He was b. Jan 20 1883 in San Antonio, Bexar, TX. His father was J.R. Cloud of Memphis, TN.
>
>In 1921 he was living in San Antonio working as a music teacher, but I can't find him on any census.
>
>I find a Mrs. J.R. Cloud, born Mexico, in San Antonio in 1930 census, but Andela isn't with them (he'd be 47 y/o at that time.) Mrs. J.R. Cloud is 68 (c. ca 1862 Mex.) and married when she was 18 or about 1880. Living with her is a daughter -- looks like "Cloud, Mrs. Oddside(?)", 45, widowed, married at 19 and both parents born in Mex. In the same residence, different HH, is a Mrs. W.M. Power, 32, born TX, married at 18, with a daughter that looks like "Cloud, Casile(?)", twenty-something, b. TX, both parents b. TX.
>
>
>thanks,
>Tom
>
>===========================================
> Share your Cloud family history here.
> Join the Cloud Family Association
> http://mykindred.com/cloud/
>(The Cloud Family Association was formed in 1978 by members of the Cloud family.
>It is our family organization and it is not affiliated with any commercial enterprise, or with rootsweb or Ancestry in any way.)
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLOUD-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Does anyone recognize Andela Perez Cloud?
He was b. Jan 20 1883 in San Antonio, Bexar, TX. His father was J.R. Cloud of Memphis, TN.
In 1921 he was living in San Antonio working as a music teacher, but I can't find him on any census.
I find a Mrs. J.R. Cloud, born Mexico, in San Antonio in 1930 census, but Andela isn't with them (he'd be 47 y/o at that time.) Mrs. J.R. Cloud is 68 (c. ca 1862 Mex.) and married when she was 18 or about 1880. Living with her is a daughter -- looks like "Cloud, Mrs. Oddside(?)", 45, widowed, married at 19 and both parents born in Mex. In the same residence, different HH, is a Mrs. W.M. Power, 32, born TX, married at 18, with a daughter that looks like "Cloud, Casile(?)", twenty-something, b. TX, both parents b. TX.
thanks,
Tom