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Another case in my data of possible double fam.
I have
Jacob Cloud, b 1792, son of Samuel Cloud and Margaret Cloud.
marr Mary Huddleston 1817 have Children
Greenberry, b 1822
Nancy, b unk
Eliza, b unkl
Mariah, b unk
Charlota Jane, b unk
Orleana
Martha E.
Wiley.
Second family
Jacob Cloud, b 1767, son of Joseph Cloud and Mary Underwood.
Marr Mary Polly Huddleston and have same children as listed above.
Any help on these folks would be appreciated.
Ken Cloud
Ken -- those are def. the children of Isaac and Eliz. (Bennett) Cloud. You
will find most of them listed in correspondence in the widow's pension
apllication folder in the U./S. Archives as well as in the 1850 census for
Bradley Co., TN. Although we lack definitive proof, all available evidence
indicates that this Isaac was the son of Isaac Cloud, Jr., but not by the
second wife, Joanna, who bore him no children. (Unfortunately, we don't know
the name of Isaac Jr.'s first wife.) Therefore, for clarity's sake, I
usually call him Isaac III. I base my belief that he was Isaac Jr's son on
the following facts:
(1) he served in the same company as Isaac Jr.'s sons George and James M. in
the Seminole War (which is what the pension ap. is based on); (2) George
validated his (Isaac III's) service in an affidavit in 1852 (I think -- I'm
doing this from memory) in Polk Co., TN; and (3) his name. At the same
time, I grant that he might have been a first cousin out of the Rutherford
County, NC, crowd (we don't have a very full record of the names of the
children of Isaac Sr.'s other sons). One thing that points in that
direction is that his children's names are not the ones you would expect.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Cloud" <kec(a)cox.net>
To: <CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:41 PM
Subject: [CLOUD-L] Isaac Cloud
> I have Isaac Cloud, b 1814 SC, d 1854 GA with wife Elizabeth Bennett, m
1842 GA with Children:
> Nancy J. b 1843
> Kesiah b. 1844
> Susan b. 1846
> William R. b 1848
> Burton S. b 1849
> James B. b 1851
> Irwin B. b 1852
> Isaac F. b 1853
>
> Problem is I that I have same family with parents
> Nathanial Cloud and Mary Steen
> or
> Isaac Cloud Jr and Joanna 2nd wife of Isaac.
>
> Anyone out there able to nail these folks down to one parent or the other.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ken Cloud
>
>
> ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> ..............................................................
> Join the Cloud Family Association: http://mykindred.com/cloud/
>
>
Hi Ken, Hi Harry...I am looking for (a female) Miss
Cloud b. 1786 Virg.- d.1819 N.C.who married
Bennett(first name) Shelton (last name) b. 1784 - d.
1860 Tenn. so the were proberly married in the late
1700's or early 1800's. They had a son named Andrew
Jackons Shelton in 1816. Hopefully someone would know
who ???miss Cloud first name is..and who she is the
daughter of..???thanks for all your help..Amanda
--- Harry Hogan <hogahl(a)starpower.net> wrote:
> Ken -- those are def. the children of Isaac and
> Eliz. (Bennett) Cloud. You
> will find most of them listed in correspondence in
> the widow's pension
> apllication folder in the U./S. Archives as well as
> in the 1850 census for
> Bradley Co., TN. Although we lack definitive proof,
> all available evidence
> indicates that this Isaac was the son of Isaac
> Cloud, Jr., but not by the
> second wife, Joanna, who bore him no children.
> (Unfortunately, we don't know
> the name of Isaac Jr.'s first wife.) Therefore, for
> clarity's sake, I
> usually call him Isaac III. I base my belief that
> he was Isaac Jr's son on
> the following facts:
> (1) he served in the same company as Isaac Jr.'s
> sons George and James M. in
> the Seminole War (which is what the pension ap. is
> based on); (2) George
> validated his (Isaac III's) service in an affidavit
> in 1852 (I think -- I'm
> doing this from memory) in Polk Co., TN; and (3) his
> name. At the same
> time, I grant that he might have been a first cousin
> out of the Rutherford
> County, NC, crowd (we don't have a very full record
> of the names of the
> children of Isaac Sr.'s other sons). One thing that
> points in that
> direction is that his children's names are not the
> ones you would expect.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Cloud" <kec(a)cox.net>
> To: <CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:41 PM
> Subject: [CLOUD-L] Isaac Cloud
>
>
> > I have Isaac Cloud, b 1814 SC, d 1854 GA with wife
> Elizabeth Bennett, m
> 1842 GA with Children:
> > Nancy J. b 1843
> > Kesiah b. 1844
> > Susan b. 1846
> > William R. b 1848
> > Burton S. b 1849
> > James B. b 1851
> > Irwin B. b 1852
> > Isaac F. b 1853
> >
> > Problem is I that I have same family with parents
> > Nathanial Cloud and Mary Steen
> > or
> > Isaac Cloud Jr and Joanna 2nd wife of Isaac.
> >
> > Anyone out there able to nail these folks down to
> one parent or the other.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Ken Cloud
> >
> >
> > ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> >
>
..............................................................
> > Join the Cloud Family Association:
> http://mykindred.com/cloud/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> Have you submitted your Cloud lineage to
> the List?
> If you're new, please submit a brief description of
> your ancestry.
> Cloud HomePages:
> http://mykindred.com/cloud
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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I have Isaac Cloud, b 1814 SC, d 1854 GA with wife Elizabeth Bennett, m 1842 GA with Children:
Nancy J. b 1843
Kesiah b. 1844
Susan b. 1846
William R. b 1848
Burton S. b 1849
James B. b 1851
Irwin B. b 1852
Isaac F. b 1853
Problem is I that I have same family with parents
Nathanial Cloud and Mary Steen
or
Isaac Cloud Jr and Joanna 2nd wife of Isaac.
Anyone out there able to nail these folks down to one parent or the other.
Thanks
Ken Cloud
Sorry, the closest I have to this request is a Doyal J. Cloud b. 1917 who
married a Mary Lee Sturdevant. Wrong sexes and 100 years apart. Story of
my life......
Janet
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Sturdivant" <jsturd(a)tds.net>
To: <CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [CLOUD-L] Re: Cloud Question
> Looking for information on Ruth Cloud b. abt 1816 married William
Sturdivant
> probably in Lunenburg VA or Hamilton County, IN. Any information would be
> appreciated
> Joyce
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janet K. Theberge <jkt54(a)ktc.com>
> To: CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com <CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [CLOUD-L] Re: Cloud Question
>
>
> >I don't know if we have a match or not, but I have a Nannie Jane Cloud
born
> >in 1875 who married a Eugene Holland Shelton. Let me know if you would
> like
> >more info. My email address is:
> >jkt54(a)ktc.com
> >
> >Janet
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Tom Cloud" <cloud(a)peaches.ph.utexas.edu>
> >To: <CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> >Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:06 AM
> >Subject: [CLOUD-L] Re: Cloud Question
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Amanda, I am copying your note to our Cloud email group.
> >> Even though I don't have a Bennett Shelton in my database,
> >> there well may be someone else who does -- and, as you suggest,
> >> this may be a clue that could lead to a breakthrough for me
> >> and my cousins, descendants of Jeremiah Cloud.
> >>
> >> At 07:05 PM 11/24/2002, maggie may <maggiemay78362(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >Hi my name is Amanda Cole and I am the gggranddaughter
> >> >of Gabriel Cole who was in the Seige Of Bexar ..I
> >> >notice Jeramiah Cloud name and I was wondering...my
> >> >other gggrandfather name was Bennett Shelton b.1784 he
> >> >married a woman who's last name was Cloud...and I
> >> >hadn't been able to find anything on her...except she
> >> >was surposely born in 1876...by any chance..did your
> >> >jeramiah have a sister or cousin..any kind of records
> >> >that might show...a female member marrying a
> >> >Shelton...I got long roots every where, but when it
> >> >comes to her name..it just ends...I sure would love to
> >> >know more about her. she would be and is my
> >> >gggrandmother..thanks for any and all help, Amanda
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> >> ..................................................................
> >> Have you submitted your Cloud lineage to the List?
> >> If you're new, please submit a brief description of your ancestry.
> >> Cloud HomePages: http://mykindred.com/cloud
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> > Have you submitted your Cloud lineage to the List?
> > If you're new, please submit a brief description of your ancestry.
> > Cloud HomePages: http://mykindred.com/cloud
> >
>
>
> ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> ................................................................
> Check out the Cloud Family web site: http://mykindred.com/cloud/
>
>
Looking for information on Ruth Cloud b. abt 1816 married William Sturdivant
probably in Lunenburg VA or Hamilton County, IN. Any information would be
appreciated
Joyce
-----Original Message-----
From: Janet K. Theberge <jkt54(a)ktc.com>
To: CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com <CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [CLOUD-L] Re: Cloud Question
>I don't know if we have a match or not, but I have a Nannie Jane Cloud born
>in 1875 who married a Eugene Holland Shelton. Let me know if you would
like
>more info. My email address is:
>jkt54(a)ktc.com
>
>Janet
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tom Cloud" <cloud(a)peaches.ph.utexas.edu>
>To: <CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:06 AM
>Subject: [CLOUD-L] Re: Cloud Question
>
>
>>
>> Amanda, I am copying your note to our Cloud email group.
>> Even though I don't have a Bennett Shelton in my database,
>> there well may be someone else who does -- and, as you suggest,
>> this may be a clue that could lead to a breakthrough for me
>> and my cousins, descendants of Jeremiah Cloud.
>>
>> At 07:05 PM 11/24/2002, maggie may <maggiemay78362(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >Hi my name is Amanda Cole and I am the gggranddaughter
>> >of Gabriel Cole who was in the Seige Of Bexar ..I
>> >notice Jeramiah Cloud name and I was wondering...my
>> >other gggrandfather name was Bennett Shelton b.1784 he
>> >married a woman who's last name was Cloud...and I
>> >hadn't been able to find anything on her...except she
>> >was surposely born in 1876...by any chance..did your
>> >jeramiah have a sister or cousin..any kind of records
>> >that might show...a female member marrying a
>> >Shelton...I got long roots every where, but when it
>> >comes to her name..it just ends...I sure would love to
>> >know more about her. she would be and is my
>> >gggrandmother..thanks for any and all help, Amanda
>>
>>
>>
>> ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
>> ..................................................................
>> Have you submitted your Cloud lineage to the List?
>> If you're new, please submit a brief description of your ancestry.
>> Cloud HomePages: http://mykindred.com/cloud
>>
>>
>
>
>==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> Have you submitted your Cloud lineage to the List?
> If you're new, please submit a brief description of your ancestry.
> Cloud HomePages: http://mykindred.com/cloud
>
Hi Cindy, thanks for such a quick response...I don't
know much about our mrs. cloud...she was married to my
gggrandfather...Bennett Shelton b. 1784 and died 1860
his wife ????Cloud was b. 1786 Va.and died 1819 N.C, I
sure hope you can help...she is the only grandmother I
don't have a name for or any info on...it seems like
she died very young..33yrs old..their son name was
Andrew Jackson Shelton b. 1816..he married Rachel
Cassedy.b.1820..thanks so much for any and all
help..Amanda
--- CindyP2922(a)aol.com wrote:
> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to
> this mailing list.
>
> Classification: Query
>
> Message Board URL:
>
>
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/YNJ.2ACIB/201.1.3.1.1.1
>
> Message Board Post:
>
> I may be able to help you with your search. My
> ex-husbands grandmother was a sister to Razzie Lee.
> Her name was Tilda Mae Threet. I met some of Razzie
> and Floyd Cloud children once at a Threet family
> reunion. Feel free to contact me, I will send you
> all the info I have.
>
>
> ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
>
>
................................................................
> Check out the Cloud Family web site:
> http://mykindred.com/cloud
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
I just noticed that your dates are probably wrong. You have the husband as
being born in 1784 and his wife being born in 1876. This can't be right.
Which is the correct date?
Janet
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Cloud" <cloud(a)peaches.ph.utexas.edu>
To: <CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:06 AM
Subject: [CLOUD-L] Re: Cloud Question
>
> Amanda, I am copying your note to our Cloud email group.
> Even though I don't have a Bennett Shelton in my database,
> there well may be someone else who does -- and, as you suggest,
> this may be a clue that could lead to a breakthrough for me
> and my cousins, descendants of Jeremiah Cloud.
>
> At 07:05 PM 11/24/2002, maggie may <maggiemay78362(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Hi my name is Amanda Cole and I am the gggranddaughter
> >of Gabriel Cole who was in the Seige Of Bexar ..I
> >notice Jeramiah Cloud name and I was wondering...my
> >other gggrandfather name was Bennett Shelton b.1784 he
> >married a woman who's last name was Cloud...and I
> >hadn't been able to find anything on her...except she
> >was surposely born in 1876...by any chance..did your
> >jeramiah have a sister or cousin..any kind of records
> >that might show...a female member marrying a
> >Shelton...I got long roots every where, but when it
> >comes to her name..it just ends...I sure would love to
> >know more about her. she would be and is my
> >gggrandmother..thanks for any and all help, Amanda
>
>
>
> ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> ..................................................................
> Have you submitted your Cloud lineage to the List?
> If you're new, please submit a brief description of your ancestry.
> Cloud HomePages: http://mykindred.com/cloud
>
>
I don't know if we have a match or not, but I have a Nannie Jane Cloud born
in 1875 who married a Eugene Holland Shelton. Let me know if you would like
more info. My email address is:
jkt54(a)ktc.com
Janet
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Cloud" <cloud(a)peaches.ph.utexas.edu>
To: <CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:06 AM
Subject: [CLOUD-L] Re: Cloud Question
>
> Amanda, I am copying your note to our Cloud email group.
> Even though I don't have a Bennett Shelton in my database,
> there well may be someone else who does -- and, as you suggest,
> this may be a clue that could lead to a breakthrough for me
> and my cousins, descendants of Jeremiah Cloud.
>
> At 07:05 PM 11/24/2002, maggie may <maggiemay78362(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Hi my name is Amanda Cole and I am the gggranddaughter
> >of Gabriel Cole who was in the Seige Of Bexar ..I
> >notice Jeramiah Cloud name and I was wondering...my
> >other gggrandfather name was Bennett Shelton b.1784 he
> >married a woman who's last name was Cloud...and I
> >hadn't been able to find anything on her...except she
> >was surposely born in 1876...by any chance..did your
> >jeramiah have a sister or cousin..any kind of records
> >that might show...a female member marrying a
> >Shelton...I got long roots every where, but when it
> >comes to her name..it just ends...I sure would love to
> >know more about her. she would be and is my
> >gggrandmother..thanks for any and all help, Amanda
>
>
>
> ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> ..................................................................
> Have you submitted your Cloud lineage to the List?
> If you're new, please submit a brief description of your ancestry.
> Cloud HomePages: http://mykindred.com/cloud
>
>
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/YNJ.2ACIB/201.1.3.1.1.1
Message Board Post:
I may be able to help you with your search. My ex-husbands grandmother was a sister to Razzie Lee. Her name was Tilda Mae Threet. I met some of Razzie and Floyd Cloud children once at a Threet family reunion. Feel free to contact me, I will send you all the info I have.
Peggy, et al ...
I received the video two days ago .... and find that I still have
lingering questions. I wish it spent more time on the issues and
less with the music and old family pictures (probably half the tape).
My interest is now turned toward three things that seem more pertinent
to our questions -- just how valuable is this testing for us (at least
at this time) ....
1 - the "proof" of Thomas Jefferson being the father of Sally Hemming's
children. This would seem to be exactly the sort of thing many of us
are looking for. But, as I understand it, there really is no proof,
other than the Y-chromosome test that confirms that a Jefferson in
Thomas' line was the father and the circumstantial evidence that she
was in his employ (and that he was 65 when the alleged conception took
place).
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/tomsally.html
Only the youngest child of Hemmings had a match with the Jefferson dna
and, as historian Williard S. Randall notes, "There were 25 men within
20 miles of Monticello who were all Jeffersons and had the same Y
chromosome. And 23 of them were younger than Jefferson, who was 65 years
old when Eston was conceived."
2 - how is dna used for paternity proofs ? ... it is my understanding
that these tests do not absolutely determine paternity but, as with
the Jefferson case, are used in coordination with circumstantial
evidence -- i.e. who are the probable fathers and which matches the
Y-chromosome test.
3 - how is dna used in criminal investigations? (I guess this is
obvious -- an "exact" match .... but of how many "markers" ???)
At 02:29 PM 11/23/2002, Peg Gordon <gordonclan(a)cox-internet.com> wrote:
>Hi Janice
>
>Appreciated your list of questions & answers on DNA. Below is a quote from
>another of my lists. It is about a free video on DNA that anyone can order.
>It is put out by Family Tree. I have just ordered a copy and plan to share
>it with our genealogical society and also many lines in my family.
>
>I look forward to more information on the GORDON DNA research!
>
>Peg
>Peggy Pike Gordon
>San Angelo, TX
>gordonclan(a)cox-internet.com
Amanda, I am copying your note to our Cloud email group.
Even though I don't have a Bennett Shelton in my database,
there well may be someone else who does -- and, as you suggest,
this may be a clue that could lead to a breakthrough for me
and my cousins, descendants of Jeremiah Cloud.
At 07:05 PM 11/24/2002, maggie may <maggiemay78362(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi my name is Amanda Cole and I am the gggranddaughter
>of Gabriel Cole who was in the Seige Of Bexar ..I
>notice Jeramiah Cloud name and I was wondering...my
>other gggrandfather name was Bennett Shelton b.1784 he
>married a woman who's last name was Cloud...and I
>hadn't been able to find anything on her...except she
>was surposely born in 1876...by any chance..did your
>jeramiah have a sister or cousin..any kind of records
>that might show...a female member marrying a
>Shelton...I got long roots every where, but when it
>comes to her name..it just ends...I sure would love to
>know more about her. she would be and is my
>gggrandmother..thanks for any and all help, Amanda
gking(a)bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
>
> Surnames: Cloud
> Classification: Query
>
> Message Board URL:
>
> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/YNJ.2ACIB/219.235.515
>
> Message Board Post:
>
> I need help desperatelySusan Eva Cloud (Jackson Co, Fl)>John Wesley Cloud, (5Dec1859,Jackson Co, Fl)>James Cloud(1809 in SC)>Peter Cloud, ABT1751 (Edgefield Dist. SC) . Peter was born to ??Cloud and Elizabeth? Do you have any info? I'm desperate!! I haven't been able to find anything else. Ada
>
> ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> Have you submitted your Cloud lineage to the List?
> If you're new, please submit a brief description of your ancestry.
> Cloud HomePages: http://mykindred.com/cloud
Ada: I have done a considerable amount of research on the Clouds in
Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina that includes the names that you
quote. However, I have not done any research in Alabama.
Following is a direct line Ancestor Report (without siblings) showing the
line, as I have it, from John Wesley Cloud of Florida through Peter Cloud
in GA and SC..
Ancestors of John Wesley Cloud b: 1857
1. John Wesley. Cloud, born December 1857 in Jackson County, FL; died
1920 in Jackson County, FL. He was the son of 2. James Cloud and 3.
Matilda Griffin. He married (1) Susan C. Brogden 18 January 1880 in
Jackson Co., Fl. She was born Abt. 1860 in FL, and died Unknown.
2. James Cloud, born Abt. 1814 in SC; died November 1878 in Jackson
County, FL. He was the son of 4. John Cloud and 5. Mary Shipes. He
married 3. Matilda Griffin 01 October 1854 in Jackson Co., Fl. She was
born December 1832 in GA; and died Abt. 1915 in Jackson Co., Fl.
4. John Cloud, born Abt. 1782; died 24 August 1841 in Decatur Co., Ga.
He was the son of 8. Peter Cloud and 9. Elizabeth __________. He married
5. Mary Shipes Abt. 1805 in Edgefield District, SC. She was born Abt. 1785
and died Bef. 1838. She was the daughter of 10. Phillip Shipes and 11.
Sary __________.
8. Peter Cloud, born Bef. 1755; died Bef. 1820. He was the son of 16.
Jeremiah Cloud and 17. Sarah __________. He married 9. Elizabeth
__________ Bef. 1782. She was born Bet. 1756 - 1765; and died Aft. 1820.
I have just completed some research to PROVE that James Cloud, the father
of John Wesley Cloud, moved from Decatur Co., GA to Jackson Co., FL in 1846
and is indeed the son of John Cloud (b: c 1782). I plan to post this
report to Cloud-L within the next two or three weeks so the timing of your
inquiry is perfect.
If you have more than just a casual interest in the Cloud line, I strongly
urge you to join the Cloud Family Association if you haven't done so
already. The next issue of the Cloud Family Journal will contain an
in-depth article about the Clouds in Southwest Georgia and Edgefield
District, SC.
I hope the above information is useful and I would prefer to use the
Cloud-L forum for any exchange of questions that may arise in the future.
THANKS Ralph Byron "Rex" Sanders
dont know if you have looked at my data, have two John Wesleys, but dates
dont agree. Take a look at
www.cloudweb.org
Ken Cloud
----- Original Message -----
From: <gking(a)bellsouth.net>
To: <CLOUD-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 6:43 PM
Subject: [CLOUD-L] Re: Clouds in AL, etc.
> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
>
> Surnames: Cloud
> Classification: Query
>
> Message Board URL:
>
> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/YNJ.2ACIB/219.235.515
>
> Message Board Post:
>
> I need help desperatelySusan Eva Cloud (Jackson Co, Fl)>John Wesley Cloud,
(5Dec1859,Jackson Co, Fl)>James Cloud(1809 in SC)>Peter Cloud, ABT1751
(Edgefield Dist. SC) . Peter was born to ??Cloud and Elizabeth? Do you
have any info? I'm desperate!! I haven't been able to find anything else.
Ada
>
>
> ==== CLOUD Mailing List ====
> Have you submitted your Cloud lineage to the List?
> If you're new, please submit a brief description of your ancestry.
> Cloud HomePages: http://mykindred.com/cloud
>
>
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Surnames: Cloud
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/YNJ.2ACIB/219.235.515
Message Board Post:
I need help desperatelySusan Eva Cloud (Jackson Co, Fl)>John Wesley Cloud, (5Dec1859,Jackson Co, Fl)>James Cloud(1809 in SC)>Peter Cloud, ABT1751 (Edgefield Dist. SC) . Peter was born to ??Cloud and Elizabeth? Do you have any info? I'm desperate!! I haven't been able to find anything else. Ada
** (dang, I thought I'd already sent this ... but here it sits in
my OUT box with a flag saying it's unsent ....... my mind isn't going,
it's done went!)
========= below is what I meant to send three days ago =========
My Scottish nature wants to know -- if we do DNA testing -- that it's
getting the best use out of our time, energy and money, and I've been
bouncing questions off various people trying to come up with some sort
of FAQ .... here's what I've found so far.
Probably the best synopsis of my questions were shared with a lovely
lady and genealogist, Lynna Kay Shuffield. Here is part of what I
wrote her:
================================================
questions to Lynna Kay Shuffield
================================================
1 - It seems to me there needs to be a very large number of dna samples
to be put into a database so that useful results can be obtained -- i.e.
if only 6 people do it, then all you're really going to find out is if
they're descended from the same, unknown and possibly very distant,
ancestor.
2 - Seems to me that having some means of collecting all dna submissions
into one database would allow correlation of the data to begin to locate
links between individuals and groups. I think that's what the molecular
genealogy group at BYU is doing (see link below).
2 - Is each company going to form its own database?
3 - Is there a standard format, so that information can be searched
from the separate databases? ..... Which of the companies will be
willing to share their data -- and how difficult or expensive will
that be?
4 - With which organization should we participate? How do we
know which will have the largest number of participants -- i.e.
the largest database -- and the best mechanism for searching it
and coordinating the results???
The company I contacted was http://www.familytreedna.com. If you know
of any other companies which offer this service, please let me know
(especially if you've investigated them).
There are some answers about the technique at:
http://genealogy.about.com/cs/geneticgenealogy/
see also the molecular genealogy project of BYU:
http://molecular-genealogy.byu.edu/genealogy.htm
================================================
end of questions to Lynna Kay Shuffield
================================================
================================================
answer from Lynna Kay Shuffield
================================================
Lynna Kay wrote me back:
I am using FAMILY TREE DNA that is located here in
Houston ... they were the first company to offer DNA
testing for genealogy purposes ... the only other
company doing this is ANCESTRY.COM and their prices
are much higher, there is no individual control,
there is no personal inter-action and they manage
your project for you and only individuals get
information ...
With FAMILY TREE DNA you manage your own project,
cost is much less, there is individual hands-on
control over DNA samples and processing ... it is
NOT an impersonal process ...
Once you decide to set-up a project you get your own
website within the FAMILY TREE DNA website to manage
your project ... you control / approve anyone who
wants to join project ...
================================================
end of answer from Lynna Kay
================================================
================================================
response from FamilyTreeDNA.com
================================================
Lynna Kay forwarded my questions to Mr. Bennett Greenspan of the
Family Tree DNA Project.
http://www.ftdna.com/http://FamilyTreeDNA.com
email: info(a)FamilyTreeDNA.com
From: Bennett Greenspan <info(a)familytreedna.com>
To: <cloud(a)peaches.ph.utexas.edu>
Cc: <friday(a)argohouston.com>
Subject: FW: DNA project
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:42:47 -0600
Hello
I'll try to answer the questions that you posed to Kay.
>
> 1 - It seems to me there needs to be a very large number of dna samples
>to be put into a database so that useful results can be obtained -- i.e.
>if only 6 people do it, then all you're really going to find out is if
>they're descended from the same, unknown and possibly very distant,
>ancestor.
Interestingly most Anthropologists are able to characterize a population
with 75-150 samples. We have approx 85 populations in our database,
both from the U of Arizona and from our own customers.
DNA testing will not tell you who you descended from (although with
genealogy records you should be able to get a pretty good idea) but it
will certainly tell you that you are not descended from, or related to
someone.
****
(another question interjected here ..... I thought the purpose
of the Y-chromosome test was to establish a link with a paternal line.
Doesn't a "match" between individuals certify that they have a common
paternal ancestor?)
****
> 2 - Seems to me that having some means of collecting all dna submissions
>into one database would allow correlation of the data to begin to locate
>links between individuals and groups. I think that's what the molecular
>genealogy group at BYU is doing (see link below).
The BYU data, much talked about, doesn't have a signed release from the
sample providers, so they are severely constrained in what they can do
with the data. We were the first company to collect Release forms so
people could 'opt in' and see who they matched.
> 2 - Is each company going to form its own database?
I imagine that the answer to this is yes. Each lab currently uses
different markers on the Y Chromosome so results are only partially
comparable. In the interests of providing the most informative database
we offer conversion 'kits' that allow us to take the common markers and
add our U of A discovered markers so more people can join our database.
> 3 - Is there a standard format, so that information can be searched
>from the separate databases? ..... Which of the companies will be
>willing to share their data -- and how difficult or expensive will
>that be?
We would love to see a standard evolve like the standard for the mtDNA,
but female DNA testing is 20 years old, whereas male testing is just 8-9
years in the making. I hope to see some sort of standard emerge in the
next few years.
> 4 - With which organization should we participate? How do we
>know which will have the largest number of participants -- i.e.
>the largest database -- and the best mechanism for searching it
>and coordinating the results???
I can't say that we'll have the largest database, but we will have the
broadest database, and when we add genetic Haplogroups to our database
in January we will be far ahead of the 'pack'.
E-mail any time.
Best Regards,
Bennett Greenspan
Family Tree DNA
www.FamilyTreeDNA.com
"History Unearthed Daily"
================================================
================================================
================================================
Posted to the GORDON list:
================================================
At 01:25 PM 11/18/2002, Ramon & Janice McGough <mcgough(a)prodigy.net> wrote:
>The Family Tree DNA test requires just a cheek swab, no blood drawing. For those of us that need some help talking ourselves or our "representative" into the testing, here is a link that describes the procedure www.ftdna.com/kit.html
>
> Another thing you need to know, there are already Gordon DNA donors from Scotland and other countries. One of our Gordons on our list has already tested and she matches 11/12 with some of the Scotland Gordon septs. Her Gordons are from TN, MO, MT and Oregon. She believes her Gordons originated in the US in NC. She is, of course, very excited! She is one of the few from the U.S. that has tested and is very curious as to how the rest of us are going to be related. ME TOO!! Janice
================================================
================================================
================================================
My personal position? It's not a lot of money, familytreedna seems to
have the best plan, for the most reasonable price and, if someone else
takes it over, it will hopefully benefit us by having our data joined
with a larger data bank.
Tom Cloud <cloud(a)peaches.ph.utexas.edu>
Dear cousins,
In my research on dna research for genealogical purposes, I wrote
to Brigham Young University's Molecular Genealogy Project and received
the following email (my note to them is at the bottom).
My thoughts -- so far ...
- the ancestry.com project is the most expensive and doesn't seem
to be set up for sharing or coordinating of data between groups.
- the BYU project of this forwarded email is free, but the information
is kept by them.
- the familytreedna.com organization seems to truly be oriented
toward providing a useful service, though many may not want to come
up with $100-$200 just to prove membership in a particular paternal
or maternal line or in a particular ethnic grouping. Like BYU, they
are building a comprehensive database but, unlike the others, the
data will be compared and resulting matches shared with those
requesting it.
I'm feel better about what I've learned and will report back and share
it with you next week.
>Subject: The Molecular Genealogy Research Project
>Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:41:49 -0700
>From: "Sacha Masek" <sacha(a)smgf.org>
>To: <cloud(a)peaches.ph.utexas.edu>
>
>Dear Tom,
>
>Thank you for your e-mail and interest in participating in our project. The Molecular Genealogy Research Project (MGRP) has an objective to compile a comprehensive database of correlated genealogical and genetic information. This database will be able to reconstruct genealogies in ways not currently available. It will be especially useful in situations where written documenation is missing, such as in cases of adoptions, illegitimacies, name changes, and other similar situations. At this point we are gathering information, analyzing it and creating the database. Those who wish to participate must be 18 years old or older and have a complete biological four generation pedigree chart to submit in with their DNA sample.
>
>We are interested in having your family organization participating in this research. Individuals with 6-10 generations or more are especially helfpul in calibrating the genealogies in the database. Submission of genealogical information can be done using a regular paper pedigree chart, as a GEDCOM file, or as any other PAF compatible file. Participation is free and voluntary. Due to the nature of our research NO INFORMATION IS GIVEN BACK AT THIS STAGE (emphasis mine) to those who submit their information.
>
>Your organization can become involved by choosing one of the following options.
>
>1. A representative from our organization will travel to any location where there is a large gathering of 200 + people who would like to participate in the project. This representative would give a lecture concerning the purpose of our research and then collect samples at the event.
>
>2. For smaller groups or for collection of individual samples, we can send and collect the necessary material in the mail. All we need is a list of those interested in participating and their addresses. A person can be responsible to coordinate such a collection.
>
>Please let me know which of these options you would like to pursue. Again, thanks for your interest in the Molecular Genealogy Research Project.
>
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Sacha Masek
>Assistant Event Coordinator
>Molecular Genealogy Research Project
>
>2511 South West Temple
>Salt Lake City, UT 84115
>(801) 461-9783
>sacha(a)smgf.org
>www.smgf.org
>http://molecular-genealogy.byu.edu
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tom Cloud [mailto:cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu]
>>Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 11:21 AM
>>To: Ugo Perego
>>Cc: Ken Cloud; Byron Cloud; Gary Cloud; CECLOUD(a)aol.com
>>Subject: CLOUD surname dna research
>>
>>
>>
>>The Cloud Family Association has several hundred members -- and I feel
>>certain most of them would be willing to participate in a research
>>project. The bulk of the Clouds in America are descended from William
>>Cloud, b. ca 1621 England d. 1702 PA, USA. This particular family
>>history can be found at:
>> http://www.cloudweb.org/cloud/aqwg01.htm
>>
>>The home page for the Cloud Family Association is
>> http://mykindred.com/cloud/index.shtml
>> ... and mirrored at
>> http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cloud/index.shtml
>>
>>
>>thank you for your time,
>>
>>Tom Cloud <cloud(a)peaches.ph.utexas.edu>
At 07:57 PM 11/19/2002, you wrote:
>Tom,
>
>I cannot remember if I told you that we will be going to Salt Lake City in
>June with a friend that I taught with in Victoria. She also taught me in
>one of her genealogy courses which was excellent!
>
>I now have 39 possible resources for finding our Jeremiah there. Among them
>are: FIVE GENERATIONS OF CLOUDS (Leroy Cloud Harlan);and A RECORD OF THE
>DESCENDANTS OF WILLIAM CLOUD SINCE 1621(Phillip William Cloud), etc., etc.
>
>Also, I have discovered many compendiums that help with the numerous
>historical journals. Hopefully, we will find something!
>
>If you have any suggestions that might help the search, let me know.
>G.
(I hope you don't mind .... I'm cc'ing my list of Jeremiah/Elizabeth
Cloud and Frizzle researchers, and the Cloud rootsweb group .... maybe
some of them can offer other suggestions.)
I'm really hoping for some help from the dna testing .... at least
a narrowing of the search scope. Other than that, few suggestions.
Apparently, the church records thing -- and the probate possibilities --
have "cirrus" limitations (see below).
======================
Here's one of my possible scenarios:
.... Mr. and Mrs. Cloud emigrated from Virginia to South Carolina / Georgia
about 1780, bringing their little family with them. A few members of
both of their siblings' families travelled with them and settled nearby.
Mr. Cloud was a merchant and saw an opportunity to trade with the Creeks,
so he moved across the river into Creek territory. Jeremiah was
born there in 1784. Around 1800, Mr. Cloud died -- either of disease,
accident or hostile attack. Jeremiah and his older brothers had to
care for the family and take care of the farm (one of their sources
of food and an accepted means of acquiring wealth). (They may also
have had no land and so were forced to move -- perhaps even disperse
into other people's homes as orphans. Perhaps the entire family died
leaving Jeremiah alone.)
Times were tough, so Jeremiah struck out on his own (or maybe
he fell into a "shotgun wedding") and he married a neighbor girl,
Elizabeth <unknown) in 1800. They had a son (very) soon after that,
William Cloud (shotgun wedding ??). Their next four children are
alleged to have been born in Georgia also, though it's possible
that Jeremiah and Elizabeth, having a rough time of it, moved for
a time back to South Carolina to be near relatives (to wit, the
note in the Youngblood-Armstrong book about them being from SC).
Shortly after the surrender of the Creeks in Alabama (1814) Jeremiah
saw an opportunity to get land and moved his family there.
======================
random thoughts:
- The Youngblood-Armstrong book may be in error about the South
Carolina residence of Jeremiah and Elizabeth, but it contains other
information about their family we know to be true (look at the notes at
the top of the page http://www.mykindred.com/cloud/TX/Wm.J_quest.htm).
- Jeremiah was born in an area where there (probably) were no
churches, or at least where there was none organized enough to keep
records and/or pass them on, so a search of Georgia church records
doesn't seem like a promising avenue of research.
- Jeremiah's parents, if they died while he was young (else why
did he marry so young if at least his father wasn't deceased?), also
lived in an area where there was no courthouse, etc ... i.e. it
wasn't in the U.S., so not likely to have any probate papers filed
(at least not in that area). Even if a probate were filed, it's
likely to be one of most that were lost to various causes.
- If either of Jeremiah's parents lived until 1816 (when he
traversed to Alabama), we have no record of them accompanying him
there -- another indicator they may have been deceased by then.
? if only his mother was surviving, it's likely she lived
with one of her children -- but where, and with whom?
? Did they (she) stay in Georgia or South Carolina??
? Did Jeremiah inherit any land from either of those states?
- Where did Jeremiah's parents come from? VA? NC? SC? Perhaps
his mother moved back "home" to live with kinfolks after the death
of her husband (I'm guessing before 1800, as that's when Jeremiah
married at age 16).
.... perhaps a search of probate in SC or GA .... but all we
know is Jeremiah's name, so that's unlikely to reveal much.
Hopefully the dna "most recent ancestor" findings will narrow
the search to a small subset of such documents.
- If his parents were the adventurous sorts they appear to be
(else, why were they in Creek territory when they weren't supposed
to be .... unless they ran a trading post or such), then it's likely
they didn't bother with such trivialities as wills or other legal
documents. It's even likely, considering the time and place, that
Jeremiah and Elizabeth were never "legally" married -- i.e. no
record in a courthouse.
- If his parents were killed or plundered by Creeks, there might
be a record of a claim for compensation from the government.
But, then again, they were apparently illegal residents and so
probably not entitled to any claim for compensation. If they
both died, it may be that Jeremiah and his siblings didn't know
how to make such a claim.
- Perhaps a search of Creek records .... maybe Elizabeth was
Creek, or Jeremiah's mother was ???? If so, was there land
given to each tribe member as part of the concession of GA and
AL to the U.S. ?? Maybe there's some sort of paper trail in
Creek records regarding land transactions.
- Were Jeremiah's parents educated and/or otherwise successful?
Our only indicators are Jeremiah's aspirations and successes and
what he appears to have instilled in his children -- though some
or all of that could have come from association with his peers
and/or their parents (assuming he was orphaned young).
* Jeremiah obviously had a drive to acquire land -- shown by his
move to Alabama and then to Texas, both times immediately after those
states opened up opportunities to homestead land. His probate reveals
an impressive estate, indicating some business acumen -- especially
considering that he began his family when he was 16 and that there is
no evidence of any inheritance to help him along.
* For most of the children, we know little as to their education
or their goals and successes or lack of them. Farming was the most
common profession and appears to be what most of them did.
* H.G.W. is the exception -- he must have been educated, as he
managed to serve as Austin county, Texas' tax-assessor/collector
even though he was legally blind (from the age of 21). (I believe
"educated" in that time and where they lived meant little more than
being able to read and write and do simple math. Other than
H.G.W.'s service in the county government and his challenge to
his brother's administration of their father's probate, I know
nothing more of the extent of his educational level.)
======================================================
* Sometimes the marriages of the children offer clues. (My notes
about their approximate ages at marriage is to see if there's a
pattern of young marriages.)
- We know Jeremiah travelled with the McDades. What other families
was he known to travel with? Looking at the migration patterns
of those families will possibly give us clues as to where Jeremiah's
parents came from.
- Jeremiah's eldest child, William Cloud, married Margaret Frizzle.
The fact that this marriage occurred in Alabama might mean it offers
no clues to Jeremiah's parents. But, Margaret's parents (Thomas and
Tempy Ellis Frizzle) were in Georgia for the 1820 census and moved to
Alabama for the 1830 census. Thomas was born in North Carolina about
1776. William was about 24 when he married Margaret. (An interesting
side-note is that Margaret's mother, Temperance "Tempy" Ellis, was
kidnapped by Indians as a child and raised by them for several years.)
- Mary married Joseph Cobb, who was born 1799 in Washington county,
Georgia, near where Jeremiah had been born. Joseph's mother was
Henrietta McDade. Her father, James McDade, was in Anson county,
North Carolina by January of 1760. Due to changes in state boundaries,
he lived in both North and South Carolina without ever moving!
It appears Mary was 15 or 16 when they married.
- H.G.W.'s first wife was also a McDade -- Mary Adeline "Polly" McDade.
She is believed to have been born 1809 in Georgia. She was the eldest
child of Charles A. McDade, was b. ca 1784 Georgia (near in age and
place to Jeremiah) and his wife, Edna Adeline Fields was also born in
Georgia. He was 17 when they married.
- Jeremiah and Elizabeth's third child, James Cloud, also married a
McDade -- Virginia "Jennie" McDade, a younger sister to Mary "Polly"
McDade. He was 18 and she was 15 when they married.
?? ... since William was 24 when he married Margaret Frizzle -- and
since his siblings generally seem to have married by age 18, did he
have an earlier wife we know nothing about?
============================
For those gentle readers who wish to review some of what we know:
The Alabama Heritage Book submission:
http://www.mykindred.com/cloud/TX/Alabama_Jeremiah.htm
Jeremiah and Elizabeth Cloud's family:
http://www.mykindred.com/cloud/TX/d20.htm#P1
Clues:
http://www.mykindred.com/cloud/TX/Jer-Clues.htm
**** on the Clues page (above) click on the link (near the top)
titled "Where is Jeremiah Buried ? (and other tidbits)" and read
Gary Cloud's research notes about the earliest recorded Clouds of
Twiggs county. It would be consider that these might be relatives
of Jeremiah Cloud.
..........................................................
Sandy ... Judy, et al .... I am working hard on some kind of a
FAQ to help us out. The information is all on the familytreedna.com
web site -- and fairly well laid out .... but I still think their
is a need for something to better put it in an easier to understand
format. .... I'll bet most of us don't understand some of the terms
they use in their explanations ??
Would all of you help me come up with questions for the FAQ?
======================================================
sample questions? ... (remembering that most of use aren't familiar
with this technology and its terminology)
======================================================
- exactly what will I get from this service?
- exactly how will the data help me in my research?
- give us one or two example scenarios showing how the data is used
in genealogical research?
- will the data be compared to others' data?
- will we be notified of matches outside our group?
- will we be put in contact with the researchers with similar matches?
- is there a service to help decipher and utilize the results of the tests?
======================================================
I have been in communication with Mr. Greenspan of familytreedna.com
and am in the process of bouncing these and other questions off him.
I told him my Scottish nature wants to know what it's getting for the
money! 8^)
======================================================
BTW .... does anyone know how to take a video-tape and convert it
to some digital format like mpeg or flash .... and which is preferable?
At 07:29 PM 11/18/2002, you wrote:
>I am interested in this testing, but wonder if it would help when I don't know my Gordon line at all. Does the testing facility match you up with matching Gordons, or just give you clues and you still aren't any closer to an answer? I can't get beyond my Robert, William and George Gordon (brothers) of Greenup, KY, even though I believe their parents are a Robert and Sarah. Would DNA help in this case at all? If it would, I would be very interested. Sandy
>
>==== GORDON Mailing List ====
>Can't remember the address to use to unsubscribe? Just click on mailto:Gordon-l-request@rootsweb.com and put the one word unsubscribe in the message. If you wish to rejoin the list at a later time click on it again and use the one word subscribe.