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Boy, this has been a very busy day DNA-wise. We now have another new participant -- Doug Clendenin. Doug is a descendant of Adam and Winifred Clendenin and is, in fact, our second participant on that line.
This provides us with another opportunity to determine if Adam had a relationship with Charles Clendenin as many have thought in the past. Bill Clendenin is descended from Adam through his grandson John m Polly McKinney while Doug is descended from Adam through his grandson Archibald m Shada Pennington.
It will probably be about 10 weeks before we have Doug's results back. Bill's are tentatively scheduled for the end of July.
Sharon
Hi Lori,
Exciting, isn't it? Let me answer the interpretation question first: Ron
doesn't seem to match, he DOES match George, Randal and Michael exactly on
25/25 markers. What does this mean? It means that they share a common male
ancestor whose Y-DNA has been transmitted down through the generations
without a change.
But, better than that is the fact that the first eight men in the chart
share a common ancestor. The trick now is getting the traditional
genealogical research to reflect that. Everyone in this study needs to dig
deeper looking for genealogical records past their present most remote
ancestor. Only in that way will we all have a better idea of how these men
are related to each other.
So far the "paper" shows us that Don and Willie are fifth cousins. I don't
remember exactly the cousinship of George and Randal but they are descended
from a pair of brothers. And look at the way they spell their names!
Michael's family has used the traditional Gl-- while the rest have used Cl--
.
We do have a descendant of John and Janet Houston Clendenin in the study --
Nick. His kit has just been ordered so I expect it to be another 8 weeks
before we get his results.
You also asked >>If John Clendenin and William of NC were brothers would
decendents have exact matches?<< The answer to that is "not necessarily." In
each branch and each generation and actually in each male birth there is the
possibility that the DNA at any specific alelle may mutate. In other words
instead of copying 14 times at one location, it may copy 13 times or 15
times or any of several other variations. However, these mutations can be
used to determine sub-branches of families.
You asked if you should upgrade. I would recommend it. Michael has ordered
his upgrade to 26-37 markers. Since Ron matches him exactly at this point, a
mutation in that area may give us a clue where the DNA split as a specific
man had more than one son. But it still has to be coupled with traditional
genealogical research to be sure we're coming up with the right answers.
That common ancestor may be several generations back and in a far far away
country but he is there. We just have to find our way to him. I hope I
answered your questions. If you have others, just let me know.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: <BLLHN(a)aol.com>
To: <CLENDINEN-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: CLENDINEN-D Digest V04 #57
> Re: DNA results uploaded today for Ron Clendennen. He seems to match
> George, Randal and Michael. What do I do to upgrade or would it not be
helpful?
> Also, how do I interpret this? I'm interested to see if a decendent of
John and
> Janet Huston Clendenin matches also to this group. If John Clendenin and
> William of NC were brothers would decendents have exact matches?
>
> Thanks,
> Lori
>
>
> ==== CLENDINEN Mailing List ====
> Don't forget to check out the Clendenin Family Research Website at
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~clendin
>
> ==============================
> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
>
>
Re: DNA results uploaded today for Ron Clendennen. He seems to match
George, Randal and Michael. What do I do to upgrade or would it not be helpful?
Also, how do I interpret this? I'm interested to see if a decendent of John and
Janet Huston Clendenin matches also to this group. If John Clendenin and
William of NC were brothers would decendents have exact matches?
Thanks,
Lori
Good morning,
I woke today to find two sets of 25 marker DNA test results in. Both of them were surprises. I anticipated due to name spellings and locations of oldest known ancestors that neither of them would match anyone else who had been tested.
Well, silly me! Ron matched Randal, George and James exactly. Alan matched Barney and Warren exactly 25/25. Now, you all have to find some information to solidify the paper trail.
Any comments?
Sharon
Mr. Daryl Clendenin
7915 N.Clarendon
Portland, OR 97203
June 24, 2004
Dear Mr. Clendenin
I had my Y-DNA tested to verify as much of my Clendenin lineage as possible and hopefully, to extend my Clendenin line.
Thus far my Y-DNA matches 8 other Clendenins (various spellings) who have submitted DNA samples. That indicates a 99.9 % probability that we share a Clendenin male ancestor in our direct line. Y-DNA is passed unchanged from father to son with an occasional mutation over several hundred years.
Sharon Bryant is administering a Clendenin DNA group. Her web site is
homepages.rootsweb.com/~clendin This provides a central point to share family linege and Y-DNA matches. It also offers a discount to the fee that FamilyTreeDNA charges for the test.
Our group has active researchers in various parts of the world checking ancient records and cemetery markers Our hope is to verify our Clendenin line, especially prior to the emigrations from Scotland and Ireland.
If you have any interest in joining our group, please click on Sharon's web site for a no commitment view of some of the recent findings. If you elect to join us in this research,
Please mark your DNA test for sharing and give Sharon your Clendenin lineage as far back as you can trace it. Sharon does not want, and will not publish, birth dates or anything that could cause problems for any living person. You can see the DNA information for each of us on her web site and you can see that there is no risk in publishing it. Check www.Famil;yTreeDNA.com for prices and details.
Sharon Bryant and all our members are volunteers so the only cost is FamilyTree's fee for the tests. Contact Sharon at SharonBryant(a)cox.net with any questions.
Yours truly,
Donald E. Clendenin
donclend(a)positech.net
I hate being the bearer of bad tidings, but ...
I just checked the Group Administrator Page for our DNA project and found that the test results for Guy, Alan and Ron have been postponed once again.
They are all three being rerun again. Apparently the results they have posted have been inconclusive and they want to do the tests again. A note of explanation: that's why when you receive the test kit there are two vials and two scrapers. They can extract DNA from each vial twice. So they start with Vial A and after two tests if the results are still inconclusive they go to Vial B. If after four tests have been run the results are still inconclusive they send out a new kit for additional scrapings.
Now, they are saying the results will be ready on/around 7/5/04.
I guess I should have told you to "study up" in preparation for this test. :>(
Sorry guys.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Bryant" <SharonBryant(a)cox.net>
To: <Sawdustsuzy(a)aol.com>; <CLENDINEN-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Synoptical Family History
> Cathy,
>
> You do my heart good, girl! That's the best laugh I've had all day. I was
> getting very depressed trying to verify some of the information in
> Synoptical Family History including D. W. Clendenan's own family in which
he
> claims descent from Archibald Clendenin who immigrated from Ireland to
> Londonderry, NH in 1718-1719. He indicates there that the land that this
> Archibald owned, 594 acres, was owned by five eldest sons in succession
> starting with a William, presumably the son of Archibald. So far I have
been
> unable to locate any documentation for a son William to Archibald and
> Merrian/Merriam/whatever it was. There are three children recorded for
them
> in the Vital Records starting in 1722 in that area but none of them is
named
> William. Since Archibald had a son, Archibald (a twin b 1721) William may
be
> the elder's grandson rather than son.
>
> Now, if this family had decided to use unusual names instead of using the
> same names in every generation and by every son in each generation we
might
> get somewhere. One of the more unusual names we've encountered is that of
> Ninian. I was at a loss on that one until I read that there was a St.
Ninian
> in the Scots Catholic church. Ah, the light bulb shines bright.
>
> Have a good one.
>
> Sharon
>
In a message dated 6/24/2004 6:30:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
SharonBryant(a)cox.net writes:
D. W. Clendenan's Synoptical Family History .... Folks, there are no
references cited in this document. It is not a book. Simply a notice he had printed
stating that he was looking for more family information in order to compile a
family history. If you have used any information from this document to
compile your lineage, check out the information by trying to find documentary
proof.
Hi All,
I too have a copy of that Synoptical Family History and it explains a LOT of
the early family history "stories" that were researched by previous
generations of my family and answers the question "Where did they get this garbage?!"
The following is the only paragraph in this publication which deals with my
direct line and it is so full of holes you could fit a battle ship through
them. My ancestor was Robert A. Clendenen, who was my third great
grandfather.
This publication states:
"Robert A. Clendenin, son of Col. William Clendenin, was first commissioner
of Boone County, Virginia, Sheriff of Logan County, and a member of the
Virginia legislature".
As almost everybody knows by now, Robert A. Clendenen was the son of Robert
& Martha (Anderson) Clendenen and grandson of Adam & Winifred Clendenen.
This guy even skipped an entire generation in his lineage.
It further states:
"He served in the Civil War and spent years in pioneer life on the upper
Missouri, establishing some of the first forts there and having many encounters
and hairbreath escapes in Indian warfare".
Robert A. Clendenen died 17 Sept. 1851, TEN years before the Civil War even
started! Robert A. & Amanda (Hinchman) Clendenen migrated from Logan Co. VA
to Cass Co. Michigan in 1848. I was born and raised in Cass Co. MI and to my
knowledge, the "upper Missouri" NEVER ran through the state. (Who knew?)
I do have to admit that after reading that Synoptical Family History it did
make me curious to understand where this guy found these "facts" so I did a
bit of research of the sons mentioned in this article. (Which I am also
including for those who care to continue reading.........) It seems that D. W.
Clendenen confused events that occurred
in the life of the son John Floyd Clendenen with those of his father. It
also seems that when the biographies were compiled for the sons, John Floyd
and George Clendenen, the authors used some of the information in this
Synoptical Family History for their own research and included it in those
biographies. (Does this mis-information have a half life or is that my imagination?)
The upside to all of this is that because of the further research I did on
the sons I did manage to find the son, John Floyd Clendenen, in the 1860 Yolo
Co. CA census and the 1870 Dawson Co., Montana Territory census. (Right on
the "upper Missouri"!) I wouldn't have thought to look for him there without
this information.
I don't know about the validity of any of the other information in that
Synoptical Family History, but just judging it by what it had on my family, I
wouldn't trust it for anything more than a reliable source of fire starter for
my barbecue. The only "good" reason I can find for it still being floating
around out here is the fact that it does answer that annoying question: WHERE
DID THEY GET THIS GARBAGE?!
Cathy O'Hare
SYNOPTICAL FAMILY HISTORY
Giving Sketches of the
GLENDONYN-GLENDENING-CLENDENIN-CLENDENING, Etc,. FAMILY
Historical & Inferential
Pub. 1899 Mr. D. W. Clendenan (?)
Pg. 9
………The Virginia State papers contain many letters from Col. George
Clendenin to the Governor on the defense of the frontier, of which Clendenin was
commandant. In a history of the constitutional convention his name is mentioned
among the array of brave revolutionary soldiers who were present. His
brother, Col. William Clendenin, was associated with him in the defense against the
Indians. His letters and reports are also mentioned in the State records.
It would be interesting to print these, but space forbids. They were both
well educated, as shown by their letters and reports. Robert A. Clendenin, son
of Col. William Clendenin, was first commissioner of Boone County, Virginia,
Sheriff of Logan County, and a member of the Virginia legislature. Dr. Floyd
Clendenin of La Salle, Ill., Dr. G. W. Clendenin and Dr. Irwin Clendenin of
Maywood, Ill., are sons of Robert A. Clendenin. He served in the Civil War
and spent years in pioneer life on the upper Missouri, establishing some of
the first forts there and having many encounters and hairbreath escapes in
Indian warfare. The above history shows that Archibald Clendenin and his family
have been fully avenged on the Indians. While the Clendenin’s and others
bravely defended the frontiers with life, time and money, others reaped golden
harvests in older settlements.
===================
HISTORY OF LA SALLE CO. ILLINOIS
Interstate Publishing Co., Chicago, Ill. 1886
Author: Anonymous
Pgs. 769-770
FLOYD CLENDENEN, physician and surgeon, was born April 11, 1837, in Logan
County, Va., a son of Robert A. and Amanda (Hinchman) Clendenen, who were born
near White Sulphur Springs, Va. Robert A. Clendenen’s uncle, William Clendenen
, built a fort, which was the first house erected by a white man on the site
where Charleston, the capital of West Virginia, now stands. Floyd Clendenen
removed with his parents to Michigan, where his father died when he was
thirteen years old. His mother is still living, and now resides in Cass County,
Mich. His father while living in Virginia represented his county in the
Legislature and was Sheriff of Logan County and the first County Commissioner of
Boone County. After the death of his father, Floyd Clendenen was thrown on
his own resources. By hard work and self-denial he received a common-school
education in the schools of his neighborhood, and later attended the college
at Kalamazoo, Mich. After leaving the college he, early in 1859, took a trip
to Denver Col.; from there he went into the silver mines of Nevada, where
being exposed to all kinds of weather, he became afflicted with rheumatism and
was obliged to return home. Soon after this he entered the United States
service and was in the Quartermasters’ Department. After being honorably
discharged, he went to Montana Territory to try to recuperate his health, which had
been greatly impaired while in the army. He engaged in the fur trade with the
mountaineers and trappers, and had many hair-breadth escapes from the
scalping-knife of the Indians. He built a fort at the Round Buttes, on the Upper
Missouri River, where he had part of his men killed by Indians. Himself and
three others, after having been surrounded during thirty days by a large body of
savages, had the good fortune, when provisions and ammunition were almost
exhausted, to see a steamboat on its way to Fort Benton heave in sight, which
they signaled, and the boat (Captain William Terrell) landed and took the
almost exhausted men off to a place of safety. After which Dr. Clendenen built
another fort at the Little Rockies, which was called Clendenen’s Fort. After
returning to Michigan he again took up the study of medicine, under G. W.
Fosdick, M. D. After which he attended five courses of lectures at Bennett’s
Medical College, Chicago, where he graduated early in 1873. He went to Utica,
Ill., where he had been practicing during vacations while attending college, and
from there to La Salle, where he has since continued to practice. He was
elected Coroner of La Salle County in 1882 and re-elected by a vote of the best
men of all parties in 1884. He was appointed United States Examining
Surgeon for Pensions in 1885, and was chosen President of the Pension Board that
meets at Ottawa, Ill. He was married in 1875 to Miss Josephine W. Whipple, the
only daughter of the late Warner W. Whipple, of Waltham Township, La Salle
County. They have one daughter—Edith Warner.
HISTORY OF LA SALLE COUNTY, ILLINOIS
PAST AND PRESENT OF LA SALLE COUNTY
Author: U. J. Hoffman
Clarke Pub. Co., Chicago, Ill. 1906
FLOYD CLENDENEN, M. D.
Many accord to the medical profession the position of the highest rank and
responsibility in the field of business activity. It is a calling in which
success must depend upon individual merit and the man who wins distinction
necessarily possesses strong intellectual force, energy and a keen perception
and regard for the responsibility which devolves upon him. Lacking in none of
the requisite qualities of the able medical and surgical practitioner, Dr.
Clendenen has become widely and favorably known during the years of his
residence in La Salle.
A native of Virginia, he was born in 1837. His paternal grandfather, William
Clendenen, was likewise born in the Old Dominion and was of Scotch-Irish
descent, early representatives of the name have settled in or near Richmond,
Virginia, and aided in building the old log forts, where Charleston now stands,
at the time of the Revolution. William Clendenen served as colonel in the
United States army in the Indian wars. The parents of the Doctor were Robert
A. and Amanda (Hinchman) Clendenen, the former a Virginian planter, who was
the first sheriff of Logan county, Virginia, and also was first supervisor and
assessor of the county of Boone. In his family were four sons who are yet
living: Irving, a practicing physician; George W., who is also a physician and
established and organized the Mystic Order of the World; and William; and
Floyd.
When a youth of eleven years Dr. Floyd Clendenen accompanied his parents on
their removal to Michigan, where he acquired a common-school education and
later attended Kalamazoo College. Early in 1859 he went to Denver, Colorado,
at which time it was a sparsely settled town, but seeing no opportunity for
business advancement he continued westward to California, making the overland
trip. He resided in Nevada for a short time and later engaged in mining and
other pursuits for four years. He then crossed the isthmus upon the return
trip and went again to Michigan. It was his intention to join the Twelfth
Michigan Volunteers for active service in the Civil war but on account of his
knowledge of medicine he was attached to the quartermaster’s department as
assistant surgeon, thus serving until the close of hostilities. Then on account
of ill health he went to Montana, where he was greatly benefited, spending
four years in that state, largely engaged in mining. He afterward took up the
study of medicine under the direction of the late Dr. J. C. Fosdick, of
Cincinnati, Ohio, and afterward attended Bennett Medical College, of Chicago,
where he pursued his studies through five sessions, receiving the degree of M.
D. in January, 1874.
Dr. Clendenen located for practice in Chicago, whence he afterward removed
to Aurora, Illinois, and thence came to La Salle in 1876. Here he practiced
continuously since and a liberal patronage has been accorded him in
recognition of the skill and ability which he displays in coping with the intricate
problems which continually confront the physician. He has also served as
coroner of the county for six years.
Dr. Clendenen was married in 1875 in La Salle to Miss Josephine Whipple, and
they have one daughter, Edith, who was born in this city and is a graduate
of the University of Chicago of the class of 1903. The Doctor and his family
attend the Congregational church and for the past forty years he has been an
exemplary member of the Masonic fraternity and his political support is given
to the democracy. His time is largely occupied with his practice which has
constantly grown, and he makes a study of the diseases of the eye and ear,
having gained his proficiency in that line by constant study and research.
GEORGE W. CLENDENEN, M. D.
Portrait and Biographical Album of Whiteside Co., Ill.
Pub. Chapman Bros., Chicago, Ill., 1885 Pgs. 322 & 323
GEORGE W. CLENDENEN, M. D., Fulton is a native of Boone Co., VA (now West
Virginia), and was born Dec. 4, 1844. His parents were Robert A. and Amanda
(Hinchman) Clendenen. George W. came to Cass Co., Mich., with his parents in
childhood, and when six years of age his father died, leaving his family in
indigent circumstances.
The subject of our sketch was left to shift for himself at an early age. He
began by working out summers to earn money to pay his way through school in
the winters. He attended the union school of Niles, Mich., till he fitted
himself to enter the State Normal School at Yplilanti, which he did, and passed
examination in the literary department and entered upon the classic course.
He then became a school teacher, to provide means of support while he should
be engaged in the study of medicine, he having determined to adopt that
profession as his calling. He began to read medicine in 1872, with his brother,
Dr. Floyd Clendenen, of Dowagiac, Mich., now of La Salle, Ill. He soon
afterward became a traveling salesman for a wooden-ware establishment. Carrying
medical books on the various branches with him in his travels, he read and
studied them as he could find opportunity. He came to Fulton in 1874, and his
since made this his home. He continued on the road till 1876, since which
time he has devoted himself to the study and practice of medicine. He took a
regular course of lectures at the Bennett College of Eclectic Medicine and
Surgery, of Chicago, from which he received his degree of M. D., March 25, 1884;
and since that time he has been engaged in the practice of his profession at
Fulton, with the very best of success.
He was married in Tuscumbia, Ala., Jan. 15, 1869, to Miss Ellen A. Ferriss,
daughter of E. W. Ferriss. Mrs. Clendenen was born in St. Joseph Co., Mich.
They had four children: Blanch, who died aged two years; Gracie, who died
aged one year; Eddie W. and Kittie G., who are living.
Dr. and Mrs. Clendenen are members of the Presbyterian Church, and he is
also a member of Lodge No. 189, A. F. & A. M., and in politics he is a Democrat.
Although young in the profession, Dr. Clendenen is securing a rapidly
increasing practice as a reward for a zealous and faithful discharge of his
professional duties.
This went out of my out box on Sunday but I understand that Rootsweb had some problems then and this may not have gotten through.
Since I have some further updates I will add them to this message.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sharon Bryant
To: clendinen-l(a)rootsweb.com ; CLENDENIN-L(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:11 AM
Subject: Update
Hello everyone,
We have a new DNA participant - Nicholas J Clendenin. Nick is Mary Lou Townsend's brother and they are descended from John Clendenin and Janet Huston.
Another new DNA participant is William L. Clendenin, believed to be a descendant of Adam and Winifred Clendenin. I'm excited about this, particularly as it will either tell us yes, or no, that Adam was a son of Charles Clendenin. We can compare Bill's results with Denver's results.
We are still waiting for the 13-25 markers on Guy's test. It has once again been bumped out - this time to 6/24. 6/24 Haven't heard a word about this test.
Ron and Alan's results for 1-12 markers were due 6/19 (yesterday as you all know) and the 13-25 markers are due 6/24. These dates have basically be reversed. The 13-25 markers were due 6/19 (haven't gotten them). Markers 1-12 results were in on 6/11 and they decided they needed to be retested and set the date for 6/24. Haven't heard anything about these either.
It is extremely important that we locate and test descendants of William and Robert, sons of Charles Clendenin of Virginia.
It would also be very helpful if either George or Randal and Michael upgraded their tests to 37 markers. These three men have, at 25 markers, exact result matches. In order to help determine where their most recent common ancestor is located the 37 marker tests would be valuable. Up to you, gentlemen!
Don contacted me with a sample letter to send to possible participants that he is aware of. If you have any correspondents who would be eligible to participate (male named Clendenin or one of the variants) please send Don a message to get a copy of the sample letter. Or, Don, if you would rather you could send it to me again and I will post it to the mailing list or you can.
That's about it, folks.
P. S. Oh, I have been busy posting IGI marriages and births/christenings for Scottish parishes on the website. They start about 1598-99 and will go through 1854. I feel like I have just about gone blind looking up these IGI microfilm numbers for y'all.
Oh, and another thing: Don sent me a paper copy of D. W. Clendenan's Synoptical Family History .... Folks, there are no references cited in this document. It is not a book. Simply a notice he had printed stating that he was looking for more family information in order to compile a family history. If you have used any information from this document to compile your lineage, check out the information by trying to find documentary proof.
I'll quit there. You're probably tired of reading all this.
I've followed the DNA discussion with interest, and I have a question:
are there any participants who are believed to be descended from Robert
Clendenon (the father of Isaac, who m. Elizabeth Barger in 1761) or any
of his line? This line was Quaker.
Best wishes,
Lawrence
Hello everyone,
We have a new DNA participant - Nicholas J Clendenin. Nick is Mary Lou Townsend's brother and they are descended from John Clendenin and Janet Huston.
Another new DNA participant is William L. Clendenin, believed to be a descendant of Adam and Winifred Clendenin. I'm excited about this, particularly as it will either tell us yes, or no, that Adam was a son of Charles Clendenin. We can compare Bill's results with Denver's results.
We are still waiting for the 13-25 markers on Guy's test. It has once again been bumped out - this time to 6/24.
Ron and Alan's results for 1-12 markers were due 6/19 (yesterday as you all know) and the 13-25 markers are due 6/24.
It is extremely important that we locate and test descendants of William and Robert, sons of Charles Clendenin of Virginia.
It would also be very helpful if either George or Randal and Michael upgraded their tests to 37 markers. These three men have, at 25 markers, exact result matches. In order to help determine where their most recent common ancestor is located the 37 marker tests would be valuable. Up to you, gentlemen!
That's about it, folks.
Hi,
At the present time we have two new participants whose kits have not yet been returned to the company.
There are three sets of results we're awaiting. Guy's 13-25 results have again been pushed back. Now instead of 6/22 they're saying 6/24.
Alan Clendenon and Ron Clendennen's results are supposed to be back this week. We'll see; but I'm not masochistic enough to try holding my breath.
A handful of us representing UK, Canada, Australia and the U.S. have formed a group to try to document the information presented in GTC's "The House of Glendonwyn." We'll let you know what we discover.
That's it folks.
We still need participants to represent the following branches of the family: William, son of Charles and Robert, son of Charles.
I may have had contact with a representative of Archibald's family as well as the family of Adam (m. Winifred -----). We'll see; I have discussed with them the need to be tested.
Sharon
Are you going to a Clendenin family reunion this summer? That would be a great time to tell family members about the DNA project and solicit people to sign on and be tested!
Don't have the money (hey, I've been unemployed since last August) and believe me I know what "tighten the belt" means. So, take up a collection -- pass the hat, whatever it takes to come up with the money.
Sharon
I subscribe to a mailing list that deals with Genealogy and DNA testing. The following is a questions/comment which came in yesterday:
>>My question/problem is that I have a 37/37 match, a surname match and a
geographic proximity to one other. His paper trail ends back 4 generations, mine goes back 5.<<
Three answers/comments have come in from people who have been at this longer than I have and I hope that you will benefit by what these people had to say.
1. "Given what you know I would say you should be able to do some traditional
genealogical research to find that connection. 4 generations isn't very
far. Only 100 to 140 years depending on the ages at which the direct lines
were born. Even census records should be an enormous help potentially. I
would go looking for another researcher with the same surname and deeper
genealogy who may have data crossing the same geographical area. Get a
test on their branch and, if there is confirmation of the DNA, work your
way back down the tree."
2. "MRCA calculations are useful in setting general guidelines, but can be
nearly useless when you get to a precise situation.
Let me give you a real world example. My father and his brother are only
25/26, as my father is the originator of a mutation - that his brother
doesn't have. The MRCA calculation shows a 1% probability of their being
related in one generation. (which is the actual fact) The 50% probability
is that they are related within 14-15 generations and the 90% probability is
that they are related within 33 generations. So, the probabilities are
proven to be correct, but who would choose to use the 1% probability, which
is the actual case. (And who wants to look out 14 or 33 generations to find
the common ancestor of brothers)
Now take another example. My uncle (same guy as above) and my [business] partner ... are 26/26 and 32/33 (the rest of the results aren't in yet - they could be 41/42 for all I know at this point). My uncle's paper trail goes back to a Virginian born in the 1640s, while my partner's paper trail goes back to a Lancashireman (England) born in 1689. They are separated by at least 11 generations, probably a few more. The probability of them being related at 11 generations, based on 26/26 is 73%. The probability of them being related at 11 generations, based on 32/33 drops to 49%. The probabilities changed, but the relationship did not change. They
will be related at the generation that they are related (which we don't know) and the calculations only tell us whether we're "in the range".
Bottom Line: put most of your energy into traditional genealogy and the rest
of your energy into creating a family dna tree using strategically placed
participants. Use MRCA calculations as a really fuzzy guideline - or not at
all. With a 37/37 match, you should be working really hard to make
traditional genealogy give you your common ancestor with your 37/37 match.
You've already got the bullseye on the target."
3. "Ditto. Pushing 270 tested samples and I take the same approach when
dealing with our participants. We have clusters of perfect matches where
we know the common ancestor is probably back in 1500s if not beyond. I am
anxious to see if we can't get some traction on the expanded tests. Trying
to guess the MRCA is pretty meaningless if you are not able to find a paper
trail to him. One of the most valuable aspects of the DNA is that it
allows one to focus their genealogical research on a specific family group
and forget the rest of the families with the same surname but different DNA
haplotypes."
If you have been tested, received your results, and are saying, "well, okay I have a 50% probability of being related to Joe." Don't do that! DNA is a tool, the same way you use library resources, microfilm, cemetery transcriptions, public records, etc.
The variant spellings of the name doesn't help either. If you are ignoring data because the name is not spelled the same way as you spell it, then you are wasting your time and money. I recently saw a document in which the name was spelled three different ways on the same piece of paper written by the same person.
Another example was in a recent census: The name of the head of the household was spelled one way and three lines down in the same household, his brother's last name was spelled differently!
Do you have a record of the family that was given to you by your great-aunt's cousin three times removed? Fine. Now, verify the information for yourself. Maybe they didn't remember it quite right. It can make one devil of a difference.
The only reason I can think of for anyone not being tested is if they are female or male not named Clendenin/variant spelling.
Sharon
Well, here we are again. Most of you have answered the roll call. Those who haven't please do so.
I reported to you this morning that we had another 25/25 match and that is true. What I didn't know until just a short time ago is that we are going to have to wait for Guy's results for a while longer. It seems the results are in but the testing is being rerun for some reason. They estimate 6/22.
We have had some good fortune in contacting possibles in Australia and I located one in South Africa. Don't know if that will help or not.
I just posted the updated dna results chart on the website at http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~clendin Go take a look for yourself. There is a link from each set of results to that individual's lineage.
Sharon
I received this a few days ago and thought it worth passing on. If you have a large collection of genealogical files, notes, trees, etc. I'm sure you don't want them tossed on a bonfire when you're gone. Remember that what's important to you may not be important to your survivors.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This was a subject discussed on the the VA-ROOTS mailing list and the
following was suggested. I'm sending it with Paul's permission.
From: "Paul Drake" <pauldrake(a)CHARTER.NET>
There have been so very many questions concerning what will happen to our
genealogy files at death, that I have decided to set forth my own form for
disposing of such materials.
All should know that I have NOT practiced law for many years, and that the
laws of the United States vary from State to State and from time to time in
matters of estates. Further, this is but my Codicil, and your collection
may require more diligence and consideration in preparation.
With that in mind, remember that any lawyer can draft such a codicil, and I
do suggest that you gain that assistance if you have books, documents, or
materials within your files that have considerable monetary value to other
than yourself. So, if you have valuable items that might be considered as
within "Mom's genealogy stuff", you could easily create conflicts after your
death for those who will appraise your personal property. Your genealogy
files might well include mementos, artifacts, paintings, documents, etc.,
etc., that should be included within your inventory of personal property
owned BECAUSE those have value in the market.
Be sure that any specific mementos, artifacts, letters, and documents that
are of some worth in dollars on the market go to specifically named
individuals in your will, or give those to your family now. After that, in
disposing of your files and all other materials that have genealogical
value, though not much in money, do your own simple codicil.
Follow the form here, and in a few words state as a Preamble generally what
files you want to be included. Again, be SURE that there are no items in
those "files and papers" that have recognizable property value. Be sure to
sign it with your witnesses present as you do.
***************
Codicil to My Last Will and Testament Concerning Genealogy Materials:
Preamble: I here mean to dispose of the materials owned or properly in my
possession at death that have genealogical value, though have little or no
worth on the market as personal property. My genealogical efforts have
required no small measure of thought, time, travel, and money and may be of
substantial value to other researchers. I would ask that my file cabinets,
folders, materials in my desk, and any and all my research materials stored
elsewhere be gathered together and included in this category. It is my hope
that all such materials might be disposed of in the following manner.
Following my death, I request that any and all of my genealogical records,
both those prepared or written by me, as well as all other family history
records which may be in my possession, including all files, notebooks,
books, correspondence, copies of documents, and such as computer programs or
computer memory devices, remain together and protected for a period for
eighteen (18)months or until a recipient is found for such materials,
whichever comes first.
Further, I request that immediate efforts be made by my family to identify
one or more persons or institutions who would have knowledge of be willing
to take custody of such materials and assume the responsibility of
maintaining and perhaps continuing the family histories and research.
I suggest that the persons be contacted regarding their willingness to
assume custody of these materials include:
(examples) Jim Jones, 100 Elm St., Saint Francis, KY 12345, phone
111-333-9999
Jane Smith, 250 Money St., Nowhere, TN 98765, phone
222-999-1932
Etc.
Etc.
Whatever Museum and Archives, Main St., Hanging Limb, TN
Worthlittle Else College, Lord Knows Where, AL
Further, in the event no person or organization named here is willing to
preserve such genealogical materials, please contact the various
genealogical organizations of which I have been a member, there to determine
their willingness to accept some or all of these materials.
(Here list the societies or organizations to be contacted; include local
chapters, with their addresses, phone numbers and contacts known to you, if
any)
In witness whereof and before witnesses, I have hereto affixed my name on
the ___ day of ____, 200?
Signature ___________________________
Witness ____________________________ Date ___________
Witness ____________________________ Date ___________
Well, folks, we have another 25/25 match. Mike Glendening's John Glendening who died in Brown Co., OH in 1839 matches with Randal Clendenin and George Clendenin.
Still waiting for Guy's results.
Sharon
This appeared in the WEBB DNA Project Newsletter.
>>Queries: NC, MO & TX? WEBBs
Does anyone have any information on CLENDENIN-WEBB Marriages? Spelling varies on Clendenin -- Clendenning, Glendenin, etc.
John Clendenin m. Ann Mary Webb c. 1776 (possibly Orange Co., NC)
Joseph Clendenin m. Ann "Nancy" Webb 2/20/1787 Orange Co., NC
George Washington Webb m. Matilda Jane Clendennen 4/18/1844 (possibly Cole Co, MO)
Robert F. Clendenin m. Rebecca Webb 3/19/1829 Cole Co., MO he died in Limestone Co.,TX
Matthew Bolen Clendenin m. Elizabeth Webb 4/28/1829 Cole Co., MO he died in Limestone Co., TX
Catherine Clendenin m. Benjamin Webb c 1830? Cole Co, MO. She died in Limestone Co, TX
Any information on these couples -- parents, siblings, children, etc. is welcome. OF particular interest is whether the two groups of WEBBs were related.<<
I don't normally do this as I think it is counterproductive as far as computer space is concerned but I want to have a roll call. Here's what I want you to do. Use my personal email address: SharonBryant(a)cox.net. In the subject line type Roll Call.
Give me your name and your email address. That's all I want. It doesn't matter if you're on the List or the Digest. Please just do it.
Thanks,
Sharon
Hi,
You all have been remarkably quiet. Can't do it all by myself so I'm going to lay out what I intend to do and hope those of you who can will join in.
1. First, we have a new member in our DNA project -- Steve Clendenan from Canada has requested his kit.
2. Friday, we were told that a lot of 13-25 marker results had been returned from the lab and were ready to be uploaded. We should have results for Michael James and Guy but neither one has been uploaded to just a few minutes ago. Hopefully tomorrow.
3. That leaves us with two other kits which have been submitted and for which we have due dates of the middle of this month.
Now, here's what I'm going to do.
1. We've been able to make contact with other Clendinnens who live in Australia but who are from the brother of Guy's ancestor. One at least seemed interested and has doing some independent research on his ancestral line.
2. There was a branch of that same family who went to South Africa and I am actively attempting to locate a male member of that group with the correct surname.
3. I have been downloading diverse Clendenin (v/s) information from the Internet by doing Google searches for the name in specific locations such as Canada, Ireland, Scotland, etc. I will put that information, as I have time, into my database.
Those of you who have copies of the G. T. Clendinning book The House of Glendonwyn please dig them out. I have come across information just today which leads me to believe that old GTC has a grain of truth in his pages.
We need to verify/document those assertions. I have a large group of photocopies of some of his sources so don't send for anything until we figure out what we need.
If you have a copy of GTC's book (all 12 parts) please let me know with the idea of organizing a separate research group.
I think the first thing we need to do is see if we can verify the validity of his supposed will of William of Quarterland. There appears to be some validity there but we need to determine exactly what.
I have been in contact with two members of two different clans, other than Clan Douglas, that we seem to have matching DNA with. (25/25 with one and 24/25 with the other). I'm going to let that go with no other information until we have something more to offer them. They expect us to have verified/documented lineages. We're not there yet.
Sharon