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There have been numerous messages regarding the variation in the spelling of
the Clend**/Glend**/Glind** surnames. There is another aspect of names that
have caused us problems in researching our Scottish ancestors. That is the
Scottish Given (or Christian Name). I have found numerous instances where various
family lines have become mixed because of the commonality of the Given Name.
This is most notable in the questions that are being asked about William and
the three sons, Charles, James and John that came to America.
In an article in the Nov/Dec 2003 issue of Everton’s Family History Magazine
titled “Scottish Surnames and Christian Names” by David W. Webster, FSA
(Scott), he states that, “Genealogical research in Scotland is complicated by the
relative small pool of given names in common use”. He gives several tables
indicating the most common male and female names prior to 1864. The five most
popular male names represented 56 percent of the total number while the top ten
represented 88 percent. The top ten male names were: John, James, William,
Alexander, Robert, George, David, Thomas, Andrew and Charles. The top ten female
names were: Margaret, Mary, Elizabeth, Anne, Jane, Janet, Isabella, Agnes,
Catherine and Helen.
“The limited number of given names is probably largely a result of the
distinct naming patterns followed during that that time combined with the small
number of given names approved for use by the Established Church of Scotland. The
most typical of these naming patterns was as follows:
- First son after father's father
- Second son after mother's father
- Third son after father
- First daughter after mother's mother
- Second daughter after father's mother
- Third daughter after mother
Thereafter, it was common to use uncles’ and aunts’ names. A pattern existed
here as well, though it was less frequently adhered to.”
David states that, “ a fuller treatment of this subject will be found in the
best reference work on Scottish surnames, Gregory Fraser Black's The Surnames
of Scotland, first published in 1946, but recently reprinted in both hardback
and paperback.”
Hope that this gives you a little more insight in your research.
Doug
hi:)
Heres another Question to Ponder re these Clendenins/Glendinnings
Found a web site where it says James Clendenin born circa 1736 in
Scotland...Son of William Glendinning and RoseAnne Kirkpatrck, Married
Margaret Anderson..Both died in Kentucky..
Now several sites I have seen state that James Glendinning(Clendenin) Being
presumably ???William Glendinning and Roseanne Kirkpatricks son, Married
Jane Reid..
Im connected thru James Glendinning line that went to Australia.my direct
line....As Far as Im aware my James was Baptised in 1726 in Killyleagh Co
Down..His Parents being William Glendinning and Rose Fisher..
He First Married Ann Courtney, then 2nd Marriage to Jane Reid.
Dang this Glendinning/Kirkpatrick Family is a mass confusion one *G*
Regards from Australia
Cathy:)
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Hi:)
I found this on the Clendenin site on page PRE 1790 Residents in America
Curious who was this Chales Clendenin listed with William
North Carolina
Name
County
Township
Year
Notes
Clendenin, Charles
Orange
1779
Clendenin, William
Orange
1779
William did have a son Charles born in 1759 In Co Down Ireland..There was
Also a Baptism in Killyleagh Co Down of a Charles Clendenin in 1730..Yet
littleis known of him..
Anyone have any ideas on this one
Thankyou:)
Regards from Australia
Cathy:)
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I've had several men who have Clendenins in their lineage but whose last names are other than Clendenin ask about participating. So I asked a couple of questions. Q & A are below:
1. If people who have the ancestry but whose last names are something other than one of our variants wish to participate will they be able to receive the project pricing?
Yes...we have adoptees, etc test with established groups all the time.
2. Is there any value at all to the ladies who would be willing to be tested to do so? I think the answer is "no" but I wanted to confirm that.
No, unfortunately. The best thing the ladies can do is to ensure that a male is found and that he participates.
In regard to question 1: It's my understanding that the yDNA is passed from father to son; so if your father is Joe Jones and his father's surname was Jones, etc. up to a point where a Clendenin female marries a Jones, the yDNA that is passed down is that of the Jones family line.
Having said that, it's up to you. If you wish to order and submit a test kit, FTDNA stated that you could get the kit for the project pricing. Good luck.
Sharon
The project has been set up with FamilyTreeDNA. If you go to http://www.familytreedna.com you will see links at the top of the page. Click on "projects".
Then click on "c". This takes you to a listing of surname projects beginning with the letter "c." Find CLENDENIN and click on it.
This takes you to a description of the project. As you scroll down the page you will encounter the order form for the test kit.
When you reach the area of the specific test kit to be ordered, please if you can afford it select the 25-marker kit. It is $169.00 but that is less expensive than ordering the 12-marker kit and then paying the additional fee to have it upgraded to the 25-marker kit.
Thank you and good luck. Remember this is a tool.
Lord, help us as we seek to know our ancestors.
Sharon Bryant
I have written documents from my great grandmother's family (letters written
between sibs......2 wives, lots of kids) and they spell their name
Clendenning and Clindinning within the same documents. I think it is
impossible for us to understand at this point in time that even 100 years
ago there was not our obsession with consistent spelling. Being able to
write was apparently accomplishment enough. I have another family branch
that spells their name THREE ways and have inter-family letters in which all
3 are used interchangeably (including a family Bible). It drives me
absolutely nuts because I am obsessive about spelling and grammar. I
suppose this name game is not so far off from contemporary English-speaking
countries different use of the letter "u", as in humor/humour and so on. We
can understand each other in reading and writing despite some variances in
spelling. But, I will never grasp how it is a family did not agree upon a
spelling of its name.
Ellen Rudd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cathy Carley" <cathymkc(a)hotmail.com>
To: <CLENDENIN-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 4:14 PM
Subject: Re Spelling of Name
> Hi Sharon:)
> Over here in Australia, My Great Grandfathers Name on his wedding Cert was
> CLINDINNING..
> Then it was Changed to CLENDINNEN.Soo many different spellings of this
name
> huh*G* But at times it gets confusing huh*G*
> Regards
> Cathy:)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
> ==============================
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>
I want to address the last paragraph in Marsha's email. The male descended
from Charles is going to have to come from William, Alexander or Robert.
George only had daughters.
I have one possibility so far--a male descendant of Alexander's. Anyone else
out there? Remember it has to be a man with the surname Clendenin/variant
spellings.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "marsha moses" <mosesm(a)earthlink.net>
To: <CLENDINEN-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:28 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Choices to be made
> Defintely the 25 marker test! I participate in a couple of surname
> projects and everyone who is really interested ends up upgrading...might
> as well save the money and do it at the beginning.
>
> My dad tested for me on my maiden name surname, and his only match with
> the last name Hawkins has already upgraded so that we can be more sure
> of what we are looking for. I sprung for the 25 from the beginning and
> have been glad that I did.
>
> If you aren't already participating in DNA testing on another line, I
> encourage each of you to go to the Family Tree website and look at a few
> of the surname websites to see how much fun this stuff can be. First go
to:
>
> http://www.familytreedna.com/
>
> Push the underlined words:
> Surname Projects
>
> You will see an alphabet with numbers after it. The Boone surname has a
> particularly interesting site because of the suprises that have come
> forth from the DNA testing. (push B and scroll down to Boone) I first
> got interested because of the McGregor research-- so you might look at
> it. Or pick a name that is in your family tree to see what others are
> doing already. My buddy, Phil, who is running the Hawkins surname
> project is doing a nice job on his website even though it just began
> this time last year. So take a look at the Hawkins website. It will
> give you some idea of how quickly results can come in if everyone is
> helping Sharon!
>
> Now all of us who descend from Charles of Charleston need to look for a
> willing male who carries the name Clendenin (I for one don't care how it
> is spelled) and can be documented back to one of Charles's documented
> sons: George, William, Alexander, and Robert are the men that I have
> personally documented. And we hope that someone will find a participant
> from all of the other lines as well. At least we will know if our
> research is going in the right direction even if we don't know which
> generation we will find the match. Couldn't help but add my 2 cents!
> Marsha in WV
>
>
> ==============================
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> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
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>
>
Dear Sharon:
If I may assist in clarifying a couple of minor items below.
A: The 12 marker test is very limited in it's application. Some take the
12 marker test to merely determine if there is a potential of a match.
However, the 12 markers can leave either a false positive or a
false negative very easily. The overall question is one of genetic
distance to the MRCA ( most recent common ancestor). The related
issue is the probability of a MRCA even existing, and then the
number of generations that the MRCA exists. That probability is
some percentage and related to the total number of generations. As
you increase the number of markers ( statistical sample) and those
markers ( loci) all match, the probability of a MRCA increases. The
web site at www.familytreedna.com does a reasonable job of
explaining
the process. There is also a new 37 marker test in order to reach a
higher degree of statistical probability of a match within recent
generations.
B: Most of the DNA projects allow the individual to sign up for any of the
various grades of tests.
C: Our Project ( SCOT-DNA) takes in all grades of test ( including the
12 marker and allows the individuals to compare their DNA results
with other Clans and families. You can contact Marsha to enter
your results and Charlotte to get entry to the private web site. The
SCOT-DNA mailing list is also available. The purpose of this
database is to complement your Surname project by allowing
people with DNA results to compare their results with other
Surname projects as an additional prospect.
D: I fully agree with your statement that DNA testing should only be used
to confirm exisiting results. However, there is another byproduct that
is useful. In some cases, when the researcher has reached a total
dead end, they need a lead to go to another source or location. A
potential match with a reasonable low genetic distance can provide
some hints of other associated names or locations to research. The
use of Surnames from the period of 1200 to 1800 was so fluid that
many families changed for survival and political purposes. The
battle of Culloden and the resulting Highland Clearances caused many
families to change names purely to avoid the resulting hunt for
people of certain Clans and Families.
E: There is a large number of other projects and web sites that provide
a lot of technical information for the interested groups. You can
research those sites by looking at:
1: URL: http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail_dna.html
2: http://www.historicalgenetics.com/
F: Be sure to notify Bennett that you want the project to be public so the
results then are available to compare with other DNA projects. The
default setting is private and it is not obvious that the site itself
must
also be listed as public as well as the individual DNA results.
I'm a descendant of Jacob Clendenin of Ossian , Livingstone county New York.
His father was either Isaac or John , depending on which documents you
read :-). So I'm really happy to see this project get kicked off and will
help
with anything that I can do to assist you.
Best Regards
John A Hansen
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Bryant [mailto:SharonBryant@cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 2:54 AM
To: CLENDENIN-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Choices to be made
Hello,
I have heard from FamilyTreeDNA and we have some choices to make:
1. Do we want a 12-marker test or a 25-marker test?
Pros/Cons: Whew! I just finished reading genetic information on their
website and I think it goes like this. (Don, jump in here anywhere I'm
leading everyone astray.) The 12-marker test is sufficient but if we use the
25-marker test we will be able to more closely narrow the number of
generations it takes to reach a Most Recent Common Ancestor.
This testing will not tell you the MRCA's name or where he came from!!!!!!
What it does tell you is that (if you match exactly) you and the person with
whome you matched did so within a number of generations. OR it may tell you
that you have no matches and somewhere there is an error in your research.
This is kind of like having a dog with a real good nose that realizes
there's nothing in that tree to bark at.
For example, I have a distant cousin--both of us have brothers--and our
common ancestor in the Clendenin line is Mary Ellen Clendenin Stephenson. If
we were descended from the male Clendenin line, our brothers should match a
male Clendenin descendant of Mary Ellen's brothers. The 25-marker test would
give us a higher percentage of probability of a number of generations.
You will have to have done the regular research and test results should be
used to confirm your research NOT give you a target to research towards.
Obviously to many of us price will be the deciding factor. So I asked
specific questions about the pricing since, if we set up a project, it is
less expensive per test. Here's what I was told (it is possible to start
with the 12-marker and have it upgraded without further samples required to
a 25-marker test):
Single Test (no group project)
Single Test (group project)
Initial: $159, 12-marker
Initial: $99.00, 12-marker
Upgrade: +$100, 12 marker
Upgrade: +$90.00, 12-marker
Total to upgrade, single test, no group project $259.00
Total to upgrade, single test, group project $189.00
Single Test (no group project)
Single Test (group project)
Initial: $229.00, 25-marker
Initial: $169.00, 25-marker test
So, if we start with a group project, 25-marker test this appears to be the
least expensive method to give us the most reliable results.
2. What spelling of the name are we going to use to designate this project?
We've tossed around the question of how the name should be spelled but I
think we've come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter--that the
spelling was based on how it was heard, not how it was supposed to be
spelled.
Choices: C-l-e-n-d-i-n-e-n or C-l-e-n-d-e-n-i-n
So, I need a response to these two questions. Send me an e-mail,
SharonBryant(a)cox.net. In the subject line, state the marker you prefer and
the spelling you prefer.
You're subject line should look like this:
Subject: 12 Clendenin or 25 Clendinen or whatever your preferences are. I'll
tally the votes, report back to you, and will contact FamilyTreeDNA to set
up the project.
Sharon
Hi Sharon:)
Over here in Australia, My Great Grandfathers Name on his wedding Cert was
CLINDINNING..
Then it was Changed to CLENDINNEN.Soo many different spellings of this name
huh*G* But at times it gets confusing huh*G*
Regards
Cathy:)
_________________________________________________________________
ninemsn Premium transforms your e-mail with colours, photos and animated
text. Click here http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp
Hello,
I have heard from FamilyTreeDNA and we have some choices to make:
1. Do we want a 12-marker test or a 25-marker test?
Pros/Cons: Whew! I just finished reading genetic information on their website and I think it goes like this. (Don, jump in here anywhere I'm leading everyone astray.) The 12-marker test is sufficient but if we use the 25-marker test we will be able to more closely narrow the number of generations it takes to reach a Most Recent Common Ancestor.
This testing will not tell you the MRCA's name or where he came from!!!!!! What it does tell you is that (if you match exactly) you and the person with whome you matched did so within a number of generations. OR it may tell you that you have no matches and somewhere there is an error in your research. This is kind of like having a dog with a real good nose that realizes there's nothing in that tree to bark at.
For example, I have a distant cousin--both of us have brothers--and our common ancestor in the Clendenin line is Mary Ellen Clendenin Stephenson. If we were descended from the male Clendenin line, our brothers should match a male Clendenin descendant of Mary Ellen's brothers. The 25-marker test would give us a higher percentage of probability of a number of generations.
You will have to have done the regular research and test results should be used to confirm your research NOT give you a target to research towards.
Obviously to many of us price will be the deciding factor. So I asked specific questions about the pricing since, if we set up a project, it is less expensive per test. Here's what I was told (it is possible to start with the 12-marker and have it upgraded without further samples required to a 25-marker test):
Single Test (no group project) Single Test (group project)
Initial: $159, 12-marker Initial: $99.00, 12-marker
Upgrade: +$100, 12 marker Upgrade: +$90.00, 12-marker
Total to upgrade, single test, no group project $259.00 Total to upgrade, single test, group project $189.00
Single Test (no group project) Single Test (group project)
Initial: $229.00, 25-marker Initial: $169.00, 25-marker test
So, if we start with a group project, 25-marker test this appears to be the least expensive method to give us the most reliable results.
2. What spelling of the name are we going to use to designate this project?
We've tossed around the question of how the name should be spelled but I think we've come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter--that the spelling was based on how it was heard, not how it was supposed to be spelled.
Choices: C-l-e-n-d-i-n-e-n or C-l-e-n-d-e-n-i-n
So, I need a response to these two questions. Send me an e-mail, SharonBryant(a)cox.net. In the subject line, state the marker you prefer and the spelling you prefer.
You're subject line should look like this:
Subject: 12 Clendenin or 25 Clendinen or whatever your preferences are. I'll tally the votes, report back to you, and will contact FamilyTreeDNA to set up the project.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "John A Hansen" <jahansen(a)qwest.net>
To: <CLENDINEN-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:06 PM
Subject: Benefits of DNA testing
>
> Dear All:
>
> There are some other potential benefits of doing DNA testing as
> being proposed here. There are a number of Database projects that
> are emerging to allow you to compare your results with others.
>
> The one that I'm involved with is specifically looking at the
> Scottish Clan DNA test results.
>
> The latest DNA results update as of Jan 23 2004 is now in the files of the
> SCOT-DNA web site. There are about 180 test results at this point.
>
> This database covers many Clans and some interesting cross Clan
> connections have already evolved. Those cross Clan connections would
> never have been considered without the DNA test results indicating that
> there was a close match. It goes to support the theory that many people
> changed
> Clan affiliations and even surnames during the period of 1200 to 1800
> for many reasons... including survival after the battle of Culloden and
> during the Highland Clearances for example. DNA results may offer the
> only clue to other potential family or Clan affiliations that need to
> be considered in the options to your genealogy research brick walls :-).
>
> So if you suspect a Scottish Ancestry connection you would be
> welcome to check your results against the SCOT-DNA database.
> We take in any lab results, convert to our standard format and then
> allow you and others to compare their own results to the ones in the
> database.
>
> We also have a project file at Family Tree DNA :
> www.familytreedna.com for anyone that wants or needs to get their
> DNA tested at the project discounted rates. The project is listed
> under the S ( Scottish Clans). But we also take in DNA results
> from any of the accredited labs doing this work.
>
> Marsha does a fantastic job of converting the various formats into the
> standard database format below and also updating the database itself.
> She deserves a big thank you for the almost daily task of doing the
> various updates and numerous corrections.
>
> There is also a mailing list administered by Lauren Boyd at
> SCOT-DNA-L(a)rootsweb.com. It is quite active and the archives
> contain numerous posts on various Clans etc.
>
> I would still like to find a way to make the interpretation of DNA matches
> easier and would welcome ideas and comments.
>
> Best Regards
> John A Hansen
>
>
> ==============================
> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
>
>
The email addresses listed below were unsubscribed from the Clendenin-D(igest) mailing list this morning. These addresses resulted in bounced messages when the digest was sent out this morning.
The following users are being unsubscribed.
Hujazz601(a)aol.com from CLENDENIN-D
Tjs863(a)cs.com from CLENDENIN-D
1ncc(a)verizon.net from CLENDENIN-D
Norm, you don't have to do anything about yours. I was not aware that you were also subscribed to the Digest or I would have unsubscribed the old address yesterday.
When you change your email provider or are even thinking about it, you MUST unsubscribe BEFORE you change providers. When you have your new service up and running, then you go back and subscribe under your new address. This is an automated service.
If for some reason you don't remember to unsubscribe first, please send me an email message telling me the old email address and giving me the new one. I can do it for you but with starting this dna project I'm going to be very busy. So please try to remember to do it yourself.
Thanks,
Sharon
Sharon,
I would like to participate in the Clendenin DNA Project. The focus that you
propose would help answer the questions that I have. Our family line has
believed that John was one of the brothers, but from the date of his birth it is
not likely. I would like to be able to determine who his Father was.
John Clendenin, b.1733 d. 12 Jun 1796 in Oxford Township, Chester County,
PA. m. Margaret Steele abt. 1758.
David Clendenin, b. 29 Jul 1781 in Little Britain, PA?? d. 22 Aug/Nov 1849.
m. Mary Patterson 11 Apr 1811.
Douglas C. Osgood
osogooder(a)aol.com
I have a male Clendennen existed in PA but no like to any from the period
that I can find. I'd be interested in the DNA project. My brother would be a
direct decendent as far as I know.
Let us know what we need to do to get the kit and participate.
Lori Clendennen
Hello,
This looks as though it might become reality. If it does I need to know what you want the focus of the project to be
I propose we try something like this:
First purpose: Clendenin (all spellings) to try to determine if Charles, VA; Archibald, VA; John, PA; James, PA, and William, NC are related.
Second purpose: Are these five men related to William of Quarterland, Co. Down, died 1764.
Sharon
I have received multiple bounced messages from the mailing lists on the last few messages posted to the lists. I have, therefore, unsubscribed the following subscribers:
stevecharles(a)mindspring.com
collins(a)envirotechslc.com
1ncc(a)gte.net
shuff(a)panthermountain.net
rootsbuff(a)prodigy.net
If these were good addresses for you and you want to receive the postings by email, then re-subscribe and contact your email service provider.
Thank you,
Sharon
Hello,
I'm looking for a male Clendenin who descended from the man popularly known as William of North Carolina. Or a female who has researched the line and has a male Clendenin relative of the same line still living.
Any takers?
Sharon
Hello,
I am contacting each of you to ask about your interest in a possible dna project through Family Tree DNA which would allow us to determine common male ancestry among those men whose surname is one of the variants listed in the address.
A yDNA test will reveal the existence of a common male ancestor and would, hopefully, allow us to sort through the various immigrants to North America.
If you are interested in such a research technique would you please contact me with your name, email address, and the earliest Clendenin/any of the variant spellings ancestor you have been able to locate in your research. If you would list that man's name, his spouses name, and approximate date of birth and location and location in North America I can determine whether or not there would be sufficient interest to start a group project.
If you have already had testing done for the name Clendenin/any of the variant spellings, please let me know that.
To set up a project there is a minimum of six participants needed. The cost of the individual tests goes down with each new participant.
Ladies, we can't participate in the yDNA testing but if you have a brother or other male relative who bears the Clendenin name you can certainly participate by encouraging them to submit to the testing.
This consists of a simple swab of the inside of the cheek. Can easily be done at home, no medical intervention is needed.
Please contact me.
Sharon Bryant
Mailing list coordinator for Clendinen-l
SharonBryant(a)rootsweb.com
Hello,
It's a long story but I'm sure some of you may have realized that I've been amazingly quiet on the mailing list(s) lately.
I see that you need a website to post your Clendenin/Clendinen DNA results. You're welcome to use the Clendenin website at http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~clendin/. I haven't been in there to update it in quite some time as things became too hectic to keep up with it.
So if you want a website location to post your findings and can send me some information I'll be happy for those results to go on the Clendinen website. I'll even administer it for your or you can select someone else and I will work with that person.
Sharon Bryant