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didn't mean to upset you there Leon (CAPS = shouting)
I also have read the passenger arrival records and the name is found in
official records spelled both ways. But I too agree that it was
Klemmer/Clemmer who arrived on the Alex & Ann in 1730.
Regards
----- Original Message -----
From: "leon clemmer" <leonclem(a)comcast.net>
To: <clemmer(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [CLEMMER] Clemmer or Cleiner?
>I BELIEVE JOEL CLEMMER'S RESEARCH IS THE MOST RELIABLE AND THEREFORE
> SHOULD BE FOLLOWED IN SO FAR AS THE MAJORITY OF NAMES. I TOO HAVE
> READ THE PASSENGER ARRIVAL RECORDS NO WHERE DOES Cleiner/Cliner/
> Clinor APPEAR. I AM HAPPY WITH THE NAME CLEMMER AND WILL MAINTAIN
> THE NAME
>
>
> Leon Clemmer, ARCHITECT
> ARTIST, HISTORIAN
> 324 Chestnut Lane
> Ambler Pa 19002
> 215 643 3307
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CLEMMER-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
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9:31 AM
> Where did Clinards end up after Busks County?
They migrated along with hundreds of others to Rowan Co. area of NC. A large
Moravian settlement migrated from PA and was established there. Philip
Kleinert, the son of my Hans (Johannes) Cliner, left Weisenberg/Macungy area
in Northampton for NC about 1775. Hans died in Macungy, Bucks Co, in 1752,
his will recorded in Philadelphia Co, PA, Book 1 1748-1752.
----- Original Message -----
From: <lenclemmer(a)bellsouth.net>
To: <clemmer(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [CLEMMER] Clemmer or Cleiner?
>I too have seen the same. I'm pretty sure that the spelling
> is a typo or transcription mistake. Two Clemmer families
> claim the 1730 Klemmers. My research leads me to connect
> these folks to a family of orphaned brothers from Littlestown,Pa.
>
> Where did Clinards end up after Busks County?
>
> Len Clemmer
> -------------- Original message from "David Clinard"
> <dvc(a)netcommander.com>: --------------
>
>
>
>> For background on this question please read Archiver > CLEMMER > 2005-02
>> >
>
>> 1109483562
>
>>
>
>> I've been researching my family Clinard line now for about 30 years. But
>> I
>
>> recently found a
>
>> Klemmer webpage http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/4340/ that took
>
>> who I thought was my ancestor away from me.
>
>>
>
>> I was pretty convinced that my ancestor, named Hans or Johannes
>
>> Cleiner/Cliner/Clinor
>
>> (spelling vary depending on document as you know) was the same person
>> that
>
>> was identified as arriving in Phil, PA on 9/5/1730 on the ship Alex. &
>> Ann.
>
>> In fact the several records show the name as Cleiner while some others
>> show
>
>> it as Klemmer or Clemmer. After studying the passenger arrival records
>> as
>
>> well as other PA related records I admit that the 1730 arrival record may
>> in
>
>> fact be of
>
>> Klemmer and not "Cleiner" as found in some records.
>
>>
>
>> But my ancestor did obtain land in PA as shown by 2 land warrants in
>> Bucks
>
>> Co. dated 8/13/1734 and 2/4/1742 to Hans Cliner.
>
>>
>
>> Can anyone prove this 1730 arrival was in fact named Klemmer, not
>> Cleiner?
>
>>
>
>> Has anyone stumbled across Cleiner/Clinor/Cliner/Kleiner/Klinehart or
>> other
>
>> name variations in your search for Clemmer records too?
>
>>
>
>> Thanks for any help you can give me in clearing up the confusion I'm
>> seeing
>
>> in the records of these two names - Klemmer & Clinard.
>
>>
>
>> David Clinard
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> -------------------------------
>
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>
>> CLEMMER-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes in
>
>> the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CLEMMER-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1415 - Release Date: 5/5/2008
6:01 AM
Oh yes, I'm familiar with German names anglicized, as my surname was likely
Kleinert or similar. Up until late 1700s - early 1800s many records of my NC
Clinards who migrated from PA show Klinart or another variant.
But some of the published records in the PA Archives, for example, the
Provincial Council record of the 9/5/1730 arrival of the ship Alex. & Ann
has the name listed as "Johannes Cleiner" not Clemmer or Klemmer.
So which name is right? There was in fact records of Klemmer/Clemmer and my
Cliner/Cleiner/Kleinerd in Bucks and later Northampton Counties during the
period of 1730 and later.
----- Original Message -----
From: "leon clemmer" <leonclem(a)comcast.net>
To: <clemmer(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [CLEMMER] Clemmer or Cleiner?
TRY THIS:
THE CLEMMERS (CLYMERS) OF BERKS, BUCKS AND MONTGOMERY COUNTIES
Joel Gerhard Clemmer III
Fort Washington, 1973
A NOTE ON NAMES
It is a common phenomenon for recently arrived Immigrants in America
to anglicize their names and many of the Pennsylvania Germans provide
no exception to this trend. The original German spelling of the name
of the family in question was undoubtedly “Klemmer”. The derivation
of the name is not known, but it is interesting to note that there
exists a small river, the Klemm, near the German-Swiss border. A
family tradition states that the ancestors emigrated from this
region. Upon arrival in America the name was often spelled “Clymer”
and many people in Bucks County retain this spelling - (which is the
same as that of a very well known English family in the Philadelphia
area). The branch which moved to Berks County, however, used
“Klemmer” or, more often, “Clemmer.” Since this is the branch with
which we are concerned we will most often use “Clemmer,” although all
versions should be considered interchangeable.
SOURCES AND ABBREVIATIONS
DB - Deed Book. e.g.: Bucks DB 22,206 - Bucks County Deed Book,
Volume 22, page 206.
OG - Orphans Court, e.g.:-Bucks OQ 825 - Bucks County Orphans, Court,
File 825.
Wills - Register of Wills, e.g., Bucks Wills 7038 - Bucks County,
Register of Wills, File 7038
Tax Records can be found in the historical society of the county
in question.
THE MENNONITES
The history of the Clemmer family cannot be considered apart from the
history of the Mennonites. The Mennonite Church Is actually a union
of two related movements, Swiss Brethren Anabaptism and Dutch
Anabaptism. The former is the most important for Pennsylvania
Mennonites. The Swiss Brethren constituted a splinter movement from
the Protestant church led by the Swiss reformer, Ulrich Zwingli. The
Brethren saw the church as a group of believers who voluntarily
accepted baptism (hence the term Anabaptism) and as a spiritual
brotherhood free from state interference. The latter concept was
tied in with their belief in complete renunciation of the use of
force. The resulting practices of adult baptism, separation of
church and state, and refusal to bear arms were considered grave
threats by most churches and governments of the Reformation period
and led to terrible persecution, especially in Switzerland. As J.G.
Wenger puts it, “whatever benefits the Reformation may have brought
to the world, religious toleration was not one of them.”
Largely as a result of religious persecution, thousands of Swiss
Brethren migrated down the Rhine to Germany in the years after 1650.
Most of them settled in the the Palatinate where, for a short time,
they enjoyed relative peace. For a number of reasons, however, they
were soon ready to move again. The Palatinate became a stomping
ground for the invading armies of Louis XIV in the l670's and 80's;
taxes became excessive because of constant warfare and princely
desires to emulate the splendorous court at Versailles; religious
restrictions continued to annoy, especially after a Catholic line
acceded to the electorship of the Palatinate in 1685. It was during
these difficult times that the new English colonies in America,
especially that led by William Penn, began to actively seek
prospective colonists in Germany. Penn’s “Some Account of the
Province of Pennsylvania” was a widely read advertising pamphlet
which promised popular government, equal rights regardless of race or
religion, and, especially, cheap land.
Thus, it was largely the descendants of the Swiss refugees in the
Palatinate who provided the Mennonite emigrants to Pennsylvania in
the eighteenth century. For Instance, the common Pennsylvania
Mennonite names of Detweiler, Haldeman, Hofstetter, Eschelman,
Longenecker and Oberholtzer are all derived from village names in
Switzerland. These Swiss-Palatine immigrants began arriving in large
numbers in Philadelphia in the years between 1710 and 1727. They
usually by-passed the Quaker dominated city and pushed on to the
fertile limestone-based farmland lying in a broad semi-circle between
Philadelphia and the Appalachian Mountains. The northern part of
this settlement, covering parts of Bucks, Montgomery and Berks
Counties, has been organized into the Franconia Conference of the
Mennonite Church. The Bucks County settlement had Milford Township
as its center for the original Mennonite settlers reached the county
by means of the Perkiomen-Swamp Creek system which has its origin in
this area. Thus, the region was originally known as “Great Swamp”.
The The Clemmer family was among the first settlers in Milford
Township. In fact, the Great Swamp area was organized by Bishop
Valentine Clemmer who is reported to have emigrated to America in
1717. Although both the Montgomery and Bucks County branches of the
family claim this man as an ancestor, no genealogical documentation
seems to be available for his line. At this point, mention might be
made of the Montgomery County Clemmers. This line was established by
Henry Clemmer who immigrated in 1734 and settled in Franconia
Township, Montgomery County. The family has been well researched by
Abram Clemmer, whose manuscript is on file at the Montgomery County
Historical Society. No definite relationship with the Bucks County
Clemmers has been ascertained.
CHRISTIAN CLEMMER, l697 – 1759
The most complete source of information on this ancestor states that
the Clymer family
“was brought to this country by two brothers, one of whom was
Christian Clymer, or Klemmer. He was born in l697 in Germany and is
thought to have immigrated to America prior to 1730. He settled in
what is now Milford Township, and in 1734 his name appeared on the
record as a petitioner to divide the township. His wife was Barbara
___, and they were the parents of seven sons and five daughters .....
Christian Clymer died in 1759 and some of his descendants are yet
living on land which he settled. His wife passed away January l4,
1776.”
Most of the details of this account, which was published in 1905,
have been born out by further research. The Pennsylvania Archives
lists Christian Klimmer of Bucks County as among those “divers
Protestants” who immigrated between 1700 and 1718 (2). This would
place him among the very earliest settlers of the Swamp area. The
names of Christian Clemmer and John Jacob Clemmer of Richland
Township appear on many petitions in the 1730’s (3).
On June 29, 17 41, Christian Clemmer of Lower Milford Township bought
315 acres of land in Rockhill Twp. along the northeast branch of the
Perkiomen Creek (Bucks DB 23, 238). This tract on the south side of
Sellersvllle remained in the family for at least three generations,
and its ownership determined the name of the present day Clymer
Avenue (see map). In 1928 parts of it were divided into building
lots (Bucks OC 825). The area was once known as Clymersville but has
since been absorbed by residential Sellersville.
Christian died intestate in 1759 and the appropriate documents were
filed at Philadelphia (Phila. Administrations, No. 12, 1759). These
papers name his widow. Barbara, and mention the existence of eleven
children, including a Valentine Cleymer who evidently died soon
thereafter. On 4/3/1761 the widow and nine sons and daughters sold
their shares in the Rockhill tract to the eldest son, MARTIN. This
deed lists the existing children:
Leon Clemmer, ARCHITECT
324 Chestnut Lane
Ambler Pa 19002
215 643 3307
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
CLEMMER-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008
4:34 PM
For background on this question please read Archiver > CLEMMER > 2005-02 >
1109483562
I've been researching my family Clinard line now for about 30 years. But I
recently found a
Klemmer webpage http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/4340/ that took
who I thought was my ancestor away from me.
I was pretty convinced that my ancestor, named Hans or Johannes
Cleiner/Cliner/Clinor
(spelling vary depending on document as you know) was the same person that
was identified as arriving in Phil, PA on 9/5/1730 on the ship Alex. & Ann.
In fact the several records show the name as Cleiner while some others show
it as Klemmer or Clemmer. After studying the passenger arrival records as
well as other PA related records I admit that the 1730 arrival record may in
fact be of
Klemmer and not "Cleiner" as found in some records.
But my ancestor did obtain land in PA as shown by 2 land warrants in Bucks
Co. dated 8/13/1734 and 2/4/1742 to Hans Cliner.
Can anyone prove this 1730 arrival was in fact named Klemmer, not Cleiner?
Has anyone stumbled across Cleiner/Clinor/Cliner/Kleiner/Klinehart or other
name variations in your search for Clemmer records too?
Thanks for any help you can give me in clearing up the confusion I'm seeing
in the records of these two names - Klemmer & Clinard.
David Clinard