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I am not vouching for the validity of the record. I simply ran across
it (in four different lists) and wondered if anyone was familiar with
it. Someone on the Hancock mailing list also posted a message about it
and got no response which was posted to the list. The genealogical
resources here where I live are very limited. Is there anyone on the
list who would be willing to look it up?
Jean K.
Jean, your scenario would be possible. However, I sure would like to know
the source-document for the Rowan Co marriage of Margaret Clemmer to
Mr Hancock. I cannot accept a posting on an internet site as proof. I have
seen far too many errors posted on internet sites. Probably posted a couple
myself. --Charles Hite
My mother was a Hildebrand, daughter of Theodore Hildebrand, who was a
son of George Friedrich Wilhelm Hildebrand b. Feb 22 1824 at Schoningan,
Ger. d. Dec. 28, 1879 at Bulcher, TX. George married Heinrette Dorette
Deppe B. Oct. 29, 1828 in Verliehausen d. May 16 1915 at Bulcher TX.
George and Dorette married Oct. 3l, 1847 in Verliehausen.
Heinrette Dorette Deppe was a daughter of Heinrich Christoph Deppe b
1801? and Maria Dorothea Klemme b. Dec. 22 1789 at Verliehausen d. Jan
10, 1856 at Verliehausen (married first to Herr Steinke) Heinrich and
Maria were married Apr. l4, 1828in Verliehausen.
Maria was the daughter of Johann Julius Klemme amd Maria Carolina
Schulze. They were married Feb. 27, 1787. Johann's father was Barthold
Klemme (farmer in
Verliehausen and Maria's father was Andreas Friedrich Schulze
(plowmaker).
The above is from the church books at Schoningan where we visited in
1971. Schoningan is a very small Dorf with only l00 houses and a
Lutheran church. Verliehausen is only a few miles away and even
smaller. We were able to visit the small chapel at Verliehausen where
Dorette Deppe and George Hildebrand were married in 1847. The local
people told us it was originally a watch tower in the middle ages. The
whole area is like a time machine, undamaged and mostly unchanged since
before 1850!!
Schoningan and Verliehausen are located in the state of Hannover near
Uslar and Gottingen. This is even more interesting to us since we build
pipe organs and have been purchasing pipes from the Giesecke from in
Gottingen for many years.
The Hildebrands arrived in Baltimore with their sons George and Theodore
(my grandfather) after sailing six weeks with the boys age 3and 6. They
lived first in Kentucky and then came to Texas in 1886.
Do you have any links to these Klemme folks in our family. Please get
in touch and we will be glad to provide further information.
Sincerely
Roy Redman
Okay. Let's suppose that Margaret Clemmer, widow of Felty Clemmer,
remarries in 1792 to William M. Hancock. That would account for
Elizabeth who married Jacob Cloninger and Molly (or Margaret) who "died
single at John Clemmer's in Monroe Co., TN." Sometime between 1794 when
Elizabeth is born (and I'm supposing that Margaret has also been born)
and 1800, Mr. Hancock dies, disappears, or they divorce.
Margaret leaves Rowan County where she married and lived with Mr.
Hancock for Lincoln County where her older children are. Margaret
resumes using the name Clemmer to be more readily identified with her
children already in Lincoln County or because the other marriage ended
badly. She also raises her two daughters as Clemmers which is why
Elizabeth has the name Clemmer on her marriage bond instead of Hancock.
That would certainly explain things, wouldn't it?
Jean K.
Jean K. wrote << How could Elizabeth Clemmer who married Jacob Cloninger, Sr.
be the daughter of John Clemmer who moved to Monroe
Co., TN?>> Jean, You and I both have a lot of questions about Elizabeth
Clemmer b. 1794, NC, m. 1810 Jacob Cloninger to Polk Co TN by 1850. John
Clemmer(wife
Hanna Hoffman) was only 16 years old in 1794 when said Elizabeth Clemmer was
born, so said John seems an unlikely candidate for her father. However OUR
KIN says Mollie Clemmer(sister of Elizabeth, both kids by a 2nd wife Miss
Hancock & Felty Clemmer of PA) died single in Monroe Co TN in John & Hanna
Clemmer's home. Also John Clemmer had older women-girls in his home on the
1810 Lincoln Co NC census. The marriage bondsd you posted, list no Clemmer to
help us. At present I have no answer for you. Lenny Clemmer and I hada
lenghty discussion on this topic Tuesday. Charles Hite
Jean, The name HANCOCK will forever perk our NC interest.
Can you tell us more about when, where and the source for this marriage?
Hal McCawley
Volchek wrote:
> I found the marriage listing for Margaret Clemmer and William M. Hancock
> by searching the online NC archives for the name Clemmer. She is the
> only Clemmer listed in this huge listing of marriages. I just wondered
> if anyone knew where she fit into the Clemmer clan.
>
> Jean K.
>
> ==== CLEMMER Mailing List ====
> A great Klemmer history page;
> http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/4340/
I found the marriage listing for Margaret Clemmer and William M. Hancock
by searching the online NC archives for the name Clemmer. She is the
only Clemmer listed in this huge listing of marriages. I just wondered
if anyone knew where she fit into the Clemmer clan.
Jean K.
How could Elizabeth Clemmer who married Jacob Cloninger, Sr. be the
daughter of John Clemmer who moved to Monroe Co., TN? He and Hannah
Hoffman weren't married until 1803. Did John Clemmer have another wife
whom he married prior to Hannah? Did John and Hannah have at least two
children out of wedlock before they married, nine years after the birth
of the first child?
If Elizabeth Clemmer is not the daughter of Valentine "Felty" Clemmer,
then she must have been the daughter of one of his brothers or one their
sons.
Jean K.
Jean, what was the origin of this marriage? Bond? legal will? This is the
opposite of OUR KIN which says the widower Valentine Clemmer married ca 1810
as his 2nd wife in Lincoln Co NC a Miss Hancock, and had at
least two more girls, Mollie and Elizabeth Clemmer who m. Jacob Clonninger in
1810. Rowan Co is North-east of Lincoln-Gaston Co, and would be on the Great
Wagon Road from PA to Lincoln NC ca 1790. Charles Hite ------Jean wrote <<
Subj: Margaret Clemmer Hancock Date: 99-03-22 From:
dragonlair(a)spacey.net (Volchek) Does anyone know what family the Margaret
Clemmer who married
William M. Hancock on March 1, 1792 in Rowan Co., NC belongs to? Jean
K. ----
In the spirit of teaching old dogs new tricks, I have added the following to
our Dallas NC Clemmer book. Jean, thanks for the data and input.
<< The following Elizabeth Clemmer is listed in OUR KIN as a daughter of
Valentine Clemmer, and a 2nd wife. This Elizabeth was born in 1794 in North
Carolina per her 1850 census record in Polk Co Tennessee. Polk adjoins Monroe
Co TN where John Clemmer(wife Hanna Hofman), and most of their children moved
ca 1827. Therefor this Elizabeth is probably in the Clemmer family as stated
on her marriage bond. Also John Clemmer had a girl in his family on the 1810
NC census who was old enough to be this Elizabeth. However, John Clemmer was
born 1778 per his gravestone, so he was only 16years old when the above
Elizabeth Clemmer was born in 1794. So who were the older females in John
Clemmer's census record? OUR KIN says another daughter, Mollie Clemmer(the
child of Valentine Clemmer and a second wife), died single in TN while living
with John Clemmer, who would have been her step-brother. The above scenario
doesn't
seem possible because the widow Margaret Clemmer is listed on the 1800 Dallas
NC census
as a widow, AND there is no Valentine Felty Clemmer listed. It has been
suggested that this
Elizabeth was born in PA before Felty died in 1785, but if this were true,
Elizabeth would have
been 26 years old when she married Jacob Clonninger in 1810. Said Jacob
Cloninger was the brother of Adam Cloninger who married in 1803, Susanna
Clemmer(Elizabeth's stepsister), the daughter of Felty
Clemmer b. 1784 in Littlestown, PA. Thus the two families would have known
each other for some 8 years before the 1810 marriage, and would have known
Elizabeth's correct age.
"Marriage Bonds of Tryon and Lincoln Counties North Carolina" by Bynum p.32,
listed the following: (In this order: Groom; Bride; Surety; Date of Bond;
Witness)
CLONINGER, Jacob; Clemmon (or Clemmor); Elizabeth; Thomas Cloninger; 24
June 1810; H Y Webb ----This Elizabeth was born 1794 in North Carolina per
Polk Co TN
census of 1850, and could not be a daughter of Valentine Felty Clemmer d.
1784/5 in
Pennsylvania.. However, Polk Co TN is adjacent to Monroe Co TN where John
Clemmer
the son of Valentine Clemmer(d. 1785 PA) lived, and the marriage bond did say
Elizabeth
Clemmer. Said Elizabeth born 1794 would be 16years at her 1810
wedding.------
1850 Polk Co TN census 134/135
CLONIGER, Jacob, 59, m, farmer, NC {cwh, so born 1791}
Elizabeth, 56, f, NC, CW{cwh, born 1794, Elizabeth Clemmon of Dallas NC}
Mary M, 38, f, NC, CW
John W, 28, m, distiller, NC
Nancy A, 21, NC, CW
James J, 19, m, farmer, NC
Huldah J, 12, f, NC, S
CW= cannot read and write
I'm back
Printing files directly from the web may at times not produce the desired
results. The best way to overcome these problems probably would be to copy
the text to a word processor or text editor and then you can manipulate the
data to your liking.
Danny/Nancy Clemmer
http://clemmer.org/http://clemmer.org/1962/
Hello group
Several subscribers have written to me personally lately inquiring about a
Clemmer Reunion. Although I know several branches have reunions I do not
know of any one major reunion where Clemmers from all over and all branches
attempt to congregate. While I am sure localized branches would and have
welcomed everybody it might be fun to make a concentrated effort toward that
end. I know others have tried this in the past with little, or no success.
How about some feedback through the list on this subject.
Danny/Nancy Clemmer
http://clemmer.org/http://clemmer.org/1962/
Hello everybody;
The problem has been fixed and all and I do mean all pages are running
properly. Actually the problem was far more extensive than originally
thought and yet quite simple. I have been using Internet Explorer which
turns out to be far more forgiving than Netscape. Basicly my html was just
plain sloppy and Netscape didn't like it. I say the problem was extensive
because the photos Iv'e been putting up also had the same problem so those
of you using Netscape might want to return and see what you have been
missing. Mary still needs to put names on those unidentifieds anyway.
Thanks for your patience and I'll try harder next time.
Danny/Nancy Clemmer
http://clemmer.org/http://clemmer.org/1962/
Good afternoon everybody, do I have egg on my face?
Obviously There is a problem with the page (Our Kin Corrections). I have
received complaints from several subscribers saying they can not get passed
the title. These complaints come from people using both PCs and MACs. I
apologize for the inconvenience caused and will take it down while I try to
figure out a solution. When I get it corrected I will again announce it's
existence.
Danny/Nancy Clemmer
http://clemmer.org/http://clemmer.org/1962/
Hello everyone Thanks to Dorothy and Charles I think I have the information
ready for viewing online. After connecting to www.clemmer.org click on Our
Kin Corrections on the left hand column. You will notice as you read I have
placed a higher resolution file of the map on another page. I will leave
this for a limited time allowing interested parties a chance to download
this *.jpg. While it appears rather large, when printed (after downloading)
it should require no more than a regular sheet of paper. Because of the size
however eventually I will remove it, leaving the lower resolution pic in
place.
Danny/Nancy Clemmer
http://clemmer.org/http://clemmer.org/1962/
UNSUBSCRIBE!!!!!!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: p. c. harper <pcharper(a)juno.com>
To: CLEMMER-L(a)rootsweb.com <CLEMMER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 5:36 PM
Subject: [CLEMMER-L] Re: Clemmer Tradition
>
>"Tradition has it that a generation or two back of Felty Clemmer the
>family was established in Pennsylvania by two Germans of the aristocratic
>family who were disinherited in Germany because of their insisting upon
>marrying wives out of their set - good, honorable girls whom they loved.
>I am no sort of an aristocrat and do not vouch for the correctness of the
>tradition or demand implicit credence for the tradition except as
>tradition."
>
>Here is a different viewpoint of this "tradition."
>
>First: many of the later born members of a wealthy aristocratic family,
>so-called younger sons, and occasionally younger daughters and their
>husbands would go with one of these younger sons, weregenerously
>financed into the new world by an aristocratic family. There just was
>not enough land in the old country to-go-around.
>
>Second: in the Texas branch of the family there is more than one male
>who has/had a propensity to choose good looking, well educated,
>financially sound women who are first class bitches -- disrupters of
>peace and tranquility and manipulators of events and language. Women
>who could give President Clinton lessons in construction of sentences
>that require parsing -- multiple times and multiple ways. Many of the
>other members of the family would gladly have purchased a one-way ticket
>to Antarctica or other spot with no regular air transportation for the
>particular bitch they had to deal with if one could be sure the bitch
>could never RETURN!
>
>Ever since I first heard (a slightly different version) of the
>aristocratic brothers story my thought has been -- good golly, that
>gene has been around for a long, long time. If you do not believe in
>genetics, then the aristocratic prejudice is another choice. And yes
>the 'bitch gene' has shown up in more than one of the females born in
>the extended 'Clemmer family.'
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
>==== CLEMMER Mailing List ====
>Is your ancestor's obituary online? Go to http://clemmer.org to find out.
>