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According to a book in the Spruance Library at the Mercer Museum in Doylestown, Bucks County.....Henry Clemmer of Franconia married Maria Bitzer (this information from Wendy Ring) This is the first time I have heard this. Below, see the 3 items I have underlined from the page I copied and pasted. My comments follow:
Johan Heinrich and Anna Davernice Klemmer
Witnesses at Weddings and Baptisms at St. Michaelis and Zion
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Recent research by Len Clemmer of Charlotte, NC
The following entries were obtained from Pennsylvania German Church Records, Volume One and cover
various church events in the years 1747-60 at St. Michaelis and Zion Lutheran Church in Philadelphia,
PA.
1.February 10, 1747- Heinrich Klemmer witnesses marriage of Maria Barbara Artzin.
2.November 24, 1747- Johan Heinrich and wife witness marriage of Catherine Bendere (widow).
3.January 22, 1749- Johan Heinrich and wife attend baptism of Johan Andreas Staus.
4.March 28, 1749- Johan Heinrich Klemmer and wife Anna witness marriage of Elizabeth Hausere.
5.December 26, 1749- Andreas and Heinrich Klemmer and wife Anna witnesses of marriage of
Anna Maria Frickers.
6.April 23, 1751- Heinrich and Anna at baptism of Johan Jurg Bernhard.
7.December 30, 1751- Anna Klemmer witness at marriage of Anna Maria Fishere.
8.March 1, 1752- Johan Heinrich and Anna Klemmer sponsor at baptism of Hans Heinrich Koder
at St. Michaelis and Zion Lutheran Church in Philadelphia.
9.December 13, 1752- Heinrich and Anna attended baptism of Anna Maria Bitzer.
10.April 3, 1753- Heinrich Klemmer witnesses marriage of Henrica Meyerin.
11.April 15, 1753- Johan Heinrich and Anna Davernice Klemmer at baptism of Johan Heinrich
Kessler.
12.September 11, 1753- Johan Heinrich was witness at marriage of Magdalena Shaeferin.
13.March 3, 1754- Johan Heinrich and wife at baptism of Johan Heinrich Spring.
14.September 21, 1754- Heinrich and Anna Klemmer present at baptism of their son, Joseph
Klemmer, born September 16, 1754.
15.January 26, 1757- Johan Heinrich witnesses marriage by license of Barbara Sweikartin.
16.December 27, 1757- H. H. Klemmer witnesses marriage of Catherine Santers. * It is not known
if the first initial is mispelled "H" or if this is simply a relative of Johan Heinrich Klemmer.
17.August 12, 1760- Andreas and Johan Heinrich Klemmer witness marriage of Maria Catherine
Klemmer.
1.Do Andreas and Johann Henrich Klemmer refer to the two passengers, father and son, on the Alexander and Ann in 1730? If they do, then Andreas,son of Henrich b. 1688 did not marry Ann Detweiler and settle in Franconia as the Davis Family Tree states. The husband of Ann Detweiler died in 1737. (This deflates my argument
below.)
2. I don't have any idea who the Anna Maria Bitzer is who was baptized in 1752. But I assume she was an infant because it is a Lutheran church. If Wendy is correct and My ancestor Henry married a Bitzer, then there was certainly intermingling between these German speaking Lutheran and Mennonite families!
3. I also do not know who Maria Catherine Klemmer is but I do know that my ancestor Henry Clemmer wo married Maria (Bitzer????) had a daughter Catherine who married Henry Lederach and had her first child in August of 1760. Most likely not the same person, but...
(I posted this on my Clemmer/Clymer Home Page in May. In the last month I learned how to COPY and PASTE so here it is. I am eager to make all the changes I need to make but I must ask questions ad nauseum to get it straight! But isn't this what this forum is for???)
Will the Henrich Clemmer
whose name is on the Passenger List of the Alexander and Ann Please Stand up ?
A. Henrich Klemmer b. 1688, married Catherine, Lutheran, father of John Andreas who was also on the ship and J.A. settled in Franconia (now Montgomery County) m. Ann Detweiler
B. Henrich Clemmer b. 1700
married Maria, Mennonite
C. Henrich Klemmer b. 1688,
married Catherine, Lutheran,
and was father of John Andreas and Henrich who married Maria.
Sons were Mennonite and settled together in Montgomery County while another son settled in Adams County and was in the Reformed Church (Of course, this assumes the birth date of Henrich who married Maria was not 1700 but later and that the tombstone was misread or wrong)
At least two families claim Henrich Clemmer as their Immigrant Ancestor. Henrich Clemmer (always next to the name Johan Andreas Klemmer) is on the ship list of the Alexander and Ann, the oath of allegiance to the King of England, and the oath of allegiance to Pennsylvania. The fact that his name appears on the latter two lists may indicate that this Henry was not a Mennonite in 1730. Mennonites would not take an Oath of Allegiance.
The Klemmer family of Dallas, North Carolina believe Henrich was born in 1688, baptized as an infant in Friedelsheim, Germany and married Ann Catherine Daughneir, widow of Michael Daughneir, on September 16, 1710. He had at least two sons and in 1730 took his son (Johann Andreas b. ~1711 m. Ann Detweiler) and sailed for the the "New World", leaving his wife and other children behind. By 1747 his wife had joined him in Philadelphia and their names appear as witness of weddings and baptisms in the church records of St. Michael's and Zion Evangelical Lutheran Churches in Philadelphia. Thus, according to this branch of the Klemmer family, the Henrich on the ship list of the Alexander and Ann is the father and "Johann Andreas" is the son. This family does not make a definite statement about the relationship of Henry Clemmer who married Maria and settled in Franconia to Henrich b. 1688.
Another son (b. about 1713) of this Henrich Clemmer b. 1688 married and sailed with his wife and young son in 1747 to Philadelphia and settled in Littlestown, Pennsylvania (southeast of Gettysburg). They were members of Christ Reformed Church. You can find a hair-raising story of this family's encounter with Indians and more information on the the Klemmers in Germany and Switzerland at wysiwyg://2/ /http://www.geocities.com/College Park/4340/index . html.
This family (according to the Davis family tree) believe Johann Andreas, who arrived with his father in 1730, moved to what is now Montgomery County and married Ann Detweiler, daughter of Hans Detweiler of Skippack. Mennonite Bishop Valentine Klemmer who arrived by 1717 and settled in Bucks County was an uncle to Johann Andreas' father Henrich b. 1688, according to the same records.
Abram Lapp Clemmer (1894-1971) was the genealogist and author of HENRICH AND MARIA CLEMMER OF FRANCONIA. He believes the Henrich Clemmer on the ship list is the great grandfather of Henry Kulp Clemmer who married Anna Haldeman Benner. He took the 1700 birth date for Henrich from German printing on the gravestone at the Franconia Mennonite Church. If 1700 is truly his birth date then our ancestor cannot be the father of the John Clemmer who married Ann Detweiler or the son of Ann Catherine Daughneir and Henrich Klemmer born in 1688.
SO WHO IS THE HENRICH CLEMMER WHOSE NAME IS ON THE SHIP LIST OF THE ALEXANDER AND ANN? IF the 1700 birthdate was misread or incorrect and IF the Henrich who married Maria was born in 1714 or 1715, and if all of the other information is correct, then our ancestor could be the younger brother of Johann Andreas and a son of Henrich born in 1688. His wife, Maria Clemmer of Franconia, was born in 1720 and his oldest son was born in 1745! A 1714 birth date seems extremely reasonable! With a later birth date he could still be the Henrich Clemmer listed on the ship or an under 16 son on the ship but not listed. Males under 16 and women were not included on the lists. It is also reasonable to assume that two brothers would settle in the same area in a new country. John died in 1737 leaving a wife and two young daughters. Henry Clemmer and John Detweiler signed the bond of John's widow Ann as the administrator of his estate in 1737, indicating a close relationship with John.
Another possibility is that the Henrich who married Maria was never on the ship Alexander and Ann! Perhaps he is a son or grandson of Bishop Valentine Clemmer of "Great Swamp", Bucks County and the book published in the 1990's is wrong! The Hunsickers believe that Valentine Hunsicker b. 1700 was a grandson of Bishop Valentine Clemmer and arrived in Pennsylvania with him about 1717. Tradition says that Valentine Hunsicker joined his "uncle" Henry Klemmer about 1721 to build the first Mennonite Meetinghouse in Skippack. This Henry Klemmer was a stone mason.
Abraham Lapp Clemmer tried very hard to prove a relationship between Bishop Valentine Clemmer and the Henry who married Maria. He never found such a relationship! However, that does not mean the relationship did not exist. If Valentine Hunsicker's "uncle" was indeed the Henrich that married Maria, then Henry of Franconia was a son of Bishop Valentine Clymer, a first cousin to the Henrich born in 1688, and a relative (not brother) to John Andreas Clemmer who settled in Franconia. If Henry of Franconia was a son of Bishop Valentine Clemmer (born when the Bishop was 45), he most likely came to America with the Bishop and the Bishop's grandson, Valentine Hunsicker in 1717 with a large group of Mennonites. If the tomstone is correct and he was born in 1700, it is possible he was considered a minor at the time of passage. It is significant that Henrich of Franconia settled in a Mennonite community and married a Mennonite wife. This fact supports the possibility that he was a son !
or grandson of Bishop Valentine Clemmer rather than the Lutheran Klemmers! There are some who insist that Bishop Valentine Clemmer did not have children which further complicates this question!
CLEMMERS AND MENNONITES:
PERHAPS YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THIS
The full story of the Clemmer family cannot be considered
separate from the history of the Mennonites. The Mennonite Church Is
actually a union of two related movements: the Swiss Brethren
Anabaptists and the Dutch Anabaptists. The former is important for
Pennsylvania Mennonites.
The Swiss the movement Brethren constituted a splinter movement
from the
Protestant church led by the Swiss reformer, Ulrich Zwingli. They saw
the church s group of believers who voluntarily accepted baptism hence
the term Anabaptism and as a spiritual brotherhood free from
interference. This latter concept was tied in with their complete
renunciation of the use of force. The resulting in practices of adult
baptism, separation of church and state, refusal to bear arms were
considered to be grave threat by most churches and governments of the
Reformation period and led to terrible persecution, especially in
Switzerland. As J.C. Wenger puts it, Whatever benefits the Reformation
may have appeared to the world, religious toleration was not one of them
as a result of religious persecution.
Thousands of Swiss men migrated down the Rhine into Germany in the
years after. Most of them settled In the area of the Palatinate for a
short time, they enjoyed relative peace. For a number of reasons,
however, they were soon ready to move again. The Palatinate became a
stamping ground for the invading armies of Louis XIV. In the 1670's
taxes became emmulate the splendorous court at Versailles; religious
restrictions excessive, because of constant warfare and princely desires
to rule. Especially after a Catholic line acceded to the Bishop of the
Palatinate in 1685.
It was just at these difficult times that the new English colonies In
America, led by William Penn, began to actively seek prosperous,
colonists in Germany. Penn's "Some Account of the Province of
Pennsylvania" was a widely read advertising pamphlet, soliciting
promised popular government, equal rights regardless of race or
religion, and, especially, cheap land.
It was largely the descendants of the Swiss refugees in the
Palatatine who provided the Mennonite emigrants to Pennsylvania in the
eighteenth century. For Instance, the common Pennsylvania Mennonite
names of Clemmer, Detweller, Haldeman, Hofstetter, Eschelfiten.
Longenecker, and Oberholtzer are all derived from villages and rivers In
Switzerland. These Swiss-Palatine immigrants began in large numbers in
Philadelphia in the years between 171O and 1727. They usually by-passed
the Quaker dominated city and pushed on, walked, to the fertile
limestone-based farm-land forming in a broad seml-circle between Philadelphia
and the Appalachian Mountains.
"Perhaps one reason for the early organization of the Swamp Mennonite
Church was the coming of a Mennonite Bishop, Valentine Clemmer, from
Germany to 'Grooten Schwamb', Great Swamp, in 1717. In 1708 five
ordained Mennonites of Germantown Meeting wrote a letter to the
Mennonites of Holland in which they asked for literature,
". . . The congregation here is still rather weak to have anthing
printed. . . .Willern Rittinghuysen wrote to New York to have the
articles of faith printed in English because there are people here who
call themselves Mennonites who would like to have our articles
translated into English. But they asked so much that our congregation
could not raise it. The appeal met with success. In 1712 a
forty-page booklet appeared in Amsterdam, The Christian Confession Of
the Faith of the harmless Christians, in the Netherlands, known, by the
name of Mennonists. The edition was small and in 1727 Andrew Bradford
of Philadelphia reprinted the Confession. Bishop Clemmer subscribed,
signed, to the Dortrecht Confession of FAITH
( Hans ) Henry Clemmer who arrived in Philadelphia on 9/5/1730 on the
ship Alexander and Ann. He is to be found first in Salford, then ln
Franconia Twp., Montgomery Co., where, in 1748 he bought 156 acres from
Dielman Kolb, adJoining what is now the Old Allentown Road about one
mile south of the village of Franconia. He died in 1791 but the farm
remained in the family until the twentieth century. Most of Henry's
descendants remained ln Montgomery Co. and, as of 1970, many are still
to be found in the Harleyville area. The Christian Clemmers of Bucks
County predate the Henry Clemmers of Montgomery County.The relationships
between these two families has never been definitely ascertained.
My Dad, Leon,was a roaring Mennonite. He served in WW 1 and was
decorated for bravery by Italy, England amd the United States. I served
in the South Pacific in WW2.
Leon Clemmer
my Clemmers:
Other than Bishop Valentine (CLIMER) the earliest Clemmer ( KLEMMER )
found is:
CHRISTIAN CLEMMER ( CLYMER ) 1697?-1759?
This particular branch of the Clemmer family can be reliably documented
back to Christian Clymer of Lower Mllford Township, Bucks Co. His wife's
name was Barbara who died not long before 4/3/1761. Their children were
(as of 1761):
Christian Clymer of Springfield m. Catharine
Jacob m. Esther
John
Henry
Magdalena m. Peter Mayer
Anna m. John Barkey
Elizabeth m. Conrad Kelly
Esther
Catharine m. Isaac Rinker
Martin Clymer
A sometimes unreliable source says that the Clymer (Klemmer) name was
brought to the United States by two royal brothers, one of whom was
Christian Clymer, (Klemmer). He was born ln Germany ln 1697, died ln
1759 Christian is thought to have emigrated to Pennsylvania prior to
1730. Christian resided in what is now Mllford Twp., Bucks Co., and his
name appeared on the record as a petitioner to divide the township in
1734. His wife Barbara died 1/14/1776 after giving him seven sons and
five daughters, one of whom was Jacob, b. 1729. As his descendants were
Mennonites. it is likely that he was also. Scattered bits of information
about the early Clemmers in Bucks Co. mention Christian Clemmer, John
Jacob Klemmer, and Valentine Clemmer. In 1730-31 Jacob Clemmer of
Richland, Jacob Sauder, Phillip Keisinger, George Bachman, and John
Drissel petitioned the assembly to be naturalized. Also ln 1730,
thirty-two lnhabitants of "Rich lands" petitioned for a road from the
new meeting house to the county line in order to go to Philadelphia by
the Montgomery road. John Jacob Klemmer was among those who signed. A
petition was presented to the legislature from inhabitants of Bucks Co.
ln 1734 stating that they were petitioners from Germany who, having
purchased lands, desired naturalization so that they may hold same and
transmit them to their children. It was signed by Christian Clemmer and
John Jacob Clemmer, among others. On 6/13/1734, those living between the
county line and the section about to be laid out as Richland, petitioned
the court to erect the area they inhabited into a township. This led to
the formation of Lower Milford (later Milford) Twp., Bucks. Co.
Sixty-two names appeared on the petition, including that of Clymer.
Finally, John Klemmer is listed as a land owner in Rlchland Twp.
On 8/14/1809, George married Anna Geissinger (3/26/1787-12/ 25/1872) who
gave birth to seven children:
John G. - 9/8/1810 - 6/21/1894 m. Susan Bauer - 9/1/1813 -4/2/1900;
Farmer near Bally, is buried at Hereford Mennonlte Church. ;
Rev. Christian - 2/8/1813 - 3/9/1883 m. Barbara Gehman -
8/14/1815 - 11/22/1894; Christian was chosen by lot to be the minister
at Herford Church. Christian, with Pastors Oberholtzer and
Huntsberger they formed the New Mennonlte. Church at Bertolets
Meetinghouse in 1847.
He is burled at Hereford Church.
David G. - 9/23/1815 - 5/20/1893 m. Mary-3/20/1820-11/13/ 1886;
he lived on George's farm and is buried at Hereford Church.
Catharine - b. 8/22/1818 m. David Hlestand of Lehlgh Co.
Rev, Samuel G.-8/10/1821 -2/16/1870( my great grandfather who moved to Philadelphia)
Anna b.8/21/1824 m. John H. Bechtel.
Abraham b. 8/20/1828; died and buried ln the state of Washsington.
Leon wrote << We have copies of the birth and marriage papers for Johann
Henrick Klemmer, son of Jacob and Anne Catharinia . He was christened in the
Reformed Church of Friedelsheim, June 13, 1688. This is 12 years before the
recorded date of his birth on his tombstone in the Franconia Meetinghouse
Cemetery, (1700). >> -------Leon, the death date on the Franchonia
gravestone of Henry Clemmer is 1791{born 1700}, and this is proved by the
estate court settlement records. By gravestone reords this makes Johan
Henrick Clemmer of Franconia 91 years old, very remarkable. Therefore he
CANNOT be the man born 1688 in Friedelsheim Germany who, by subtraction,
would be 103 years old if he were the same man who died in Franconia in 1791.
Do you see anything wrong with this logic? -----Charles Hite
Thank you for your quick reply. I must sound like I am beating a "dead
horse". I will write to the Clemmer Association who published the book
HENRICH AND MARIA CLEMMER OF FRANCONIA and see if they have any new
information as well. Then I will change the information on my web site
accordingly.
A John Clemmer married Anna Detweiler
-----Original Message-----
From: White81429(a)aol.com <White81429(a)aol.com>
To: CLEMMER-L(a)rootsweb.com <CLEMMER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Monday, November 29, 1999 9:24 AM
Subject: [CLEMMER-L] Heinrich Clemmer b. 1688, wife Anna
>Donna wrote << To Charles Hite, Thanks for checking my Clemmer data. I
just
>added more to the chapter in the 'book' that is titled "Will the Henrich
>Clemmer whose name is on the Pasenger List........Please Stand Up?" I would
>love to have the thoughts and opinions of others. Especially any
>documentation to shed light on any of this. I consider it of great
>significance to most of us on this list! Donna Null Basinger >> From
>Charles Hite----Donna, I have posted my mathmatical proof than Henrich
>Clemmer of Franchonia b. 1700 could not
>ssibly be the Heinrich born 1688 and his son Andreas from Friedelsheim on
the
>ship Alexander and Ann ca 1730, but will do so again if you wish. Andreas
>Clemmer was in Philadelphia, and was not a Mennonite. I believe the
Henrich
>Clemmer in these records is his father, also not a Mennonite. Note the
wife
>Anna as in Friedelsheim records, and not the same wife as Heinrich Clemmer,
>Mennonite of Franconia. Isn't this the same time period your Henrich
Clemmer
>was in Franchonia? << From Lenny Clemmer research " A German Church
>Records" Vol II, there are 17 different Heinrich Clemmer(Johan Heinrich),
and
>Anna his wife at baptisms and, and witnesses for marriages from 2-10-1747
>until 8-12-1760. This last entry was for Andreas and Heinrich Clemmer as
>witnessses to the marriage of Anna Catherina Clemmers(note German plurals
and
>feminie endings). These entries are for Old Zion, and St
>Michaelis(Evangelical Lutheran) in Philadelphia. Are these the Heinrich
and
>Johannes Andreas of the Alex and Ann? Maybe? In checking with Lutheran
>archives center at Philad., curator John Peterson finds
>t most surprising that there are no Death records for such prominent church
>members as Heinrich and Anna.>>
>
>
>==== CLEMMER Mailing List ====
>Is your ancestor pictured here? Check the unknowns also at;
>http://clemmer.org/
>
I am so glad to have others join me in saying the man in the field at
The Franconia Mennonite Meetinghouse is not from the ship Alexander and
Anne. He is NOT the man who arrived in 1730.
My research is based on Joel Clemmer's 1972 checking the records in
Bucks Country and Betsy Clemmer's research in Friedelsheim, Germany.
The famous book on Our Kin is wrong. I said so BEFORE IT WAS PRINTED.
Bishop Valentine Clemmer was here in 1717.
Christian Clemmer in 1700 ?
My gang were all Mennonites, Pastors and Bishops. My own
great-grandfather was the first Pastor at the 1st Mennonite Church of
PHILADELPIA. ( 1821 - 1870 )
So I'm happy that Charles Hite and many more aggree with me. Now, lets
change the book. See also my many e-mails.
Leon Clemmer
ALL CLEMMERS MAY BE KLEMMERS OR CLYMERS OR KLEMERS
For instance, my gang of Clemmers is as follows, that is without
accounting for Bishop Climer ( Klemmer ) 1717 , Christian 1697?-1759?,
or the signer of the Declaration of Independence, George Clymer , or
others we know about.
We have copies of the birth and marriage papers for Johann Henrick
Klemmer, son of Jacob and Anne Catharinia . He was christened in the
Reformed Church of Friedelsheim, June 13, 1688.
This is 12 years before the recorded date of his birth on his tombstone
in the Franconia Meetinghouse Cemetery, (1700).
Jacob, his father had immigrated to the Palatinate area of Germany from
Zurich, Switzerland under the name of Hans Jacob Klimmer. He married one
of Hans Jakob Pfaffmann's daughters on the 17th of September 1678, in Friedelsheim.
Henrick married Catherina Davernier, widow of Michael Davernier on 16
September 1710. They had a son, Johann Ludwig Klemmer, January 24, 1720.
Johann Ludwig married Marie Elisabeth Bokel, Jan 24, 1742. The
Mechenheim church registry refers to Johann Ludwig as "legitimate son of
Johann Henrick Klemmer - former inhabitant of Gronau - then of Philadelphia."
Henrick Klemmer sailed for the new land on the "Alexander and Anne," on
board was Johann Andreas Klemmer. Various stories abound about the
relationship of the two men. No positive relationship has been
identified. Whether Henrick sailed with his wife or whether she stayed
in Germany with their ten year old son, Ludwig is not known.
The ship sailed from Rotterdam, Holland to Cowes, England and landed in
Philadelphia, September 5, 1730. Henrick could not sign his name, rather
he made his mark, HHK, the British customs official noted the name
"Clemmer." Johann signed his name "Klemmer." in all 42 names of German
immigrants are listed. Women and children were not listed. Of the 147
passengers one was Hans Jacob O
berholtz, a name we will hear of later.
William Clymer was the ship master. Clymer in many cases is an
anglicized version of the German name "Klemmer.~
Ludwig Klemmer sailed to America on the Ship Neptune September 24, 1757
with his wife Marie.
A Johann Andres Klemmer returned to Germany and died in Friedelsheim in 1757.
Most immigrants came to America as indentured "servants," with seven
years service required to pay for passage. So, there are no records of
Henry Clemmer's activities until eight years after his arrival, then we
learn Henry is in Franconia Township, Philadelphia County, now
Montgomery County.
Donna wrote << To Charles Hite, Thanks for checking my Clemmer data. I just
added more to the chapter in the 'book' that is titled "Will the Henrich
Clemmer whose name is on the Pasenger List........Please Stand Up?" I would
love to have the thoughts and opinions of others. Especially any
documentation to shed light on any of this. I consider it of great
significance to most of us on this list! Donna Null Basinger >> From
Charles Hite----Donna, I have posted my mathmatical proof than Henrich
Clemmer of Franchonia b. 1700 could not
ssibly be the Heinrich born 1688 and his son Andreas from Friedelsheim on the
ship Alexander and Ann ca 1730, but will do so again if you wish. Andreas
Clemmer was in Philadelphia, and was not a Mennonite. I believe the Henrich
Clemmer in these records is his father, also not a Mennonite. Note the wife
Anna as in Friedelsheim records, and not the same wife as Heinrich Clemmer,
Mennonite of Franconia. Isn't this the same time period your Henrich Clemmer
was in Franchonia? << From Lenny Clemmer research " A German Church
Records" Vol II, there are 17 different Heinrich Clemmer(Johan Heinrich), and
Anna his wife at baptisms and, and witnesses for marriages from 2-10-1747
until 8-12-1760. This last entry was for Andreas and Heinrich Clemmer as
witnessses to the marriage of Anna Catherina Clemmers(note German plurals and
feminie endings). These entries are for Old Zion, and St
Michaelis(Evangelical Lutheran) in Philadelphia. Are these the Heinrich and
Johannes Andreas of the Alex and Ann? Maybe? In checking with Lutheran
archives center at Philad., curator John Peterson finds
t most surprising that there are no Death records for such prominent church
members as Heinrich and Anna.>>
To Charles Hite,
Thanks for checking my Clemmer data. I just added more to the chapter in
the 'book' that is titled "Will the Henrich Clemmer whose name is on the
Pasenger List........Please Stand Up?"
I would love to have the thoughts and opinions of others. Especially any
documentation to shed light on any of this. I consider it of great
significance to most of us on this list!
Donna Null Basinger
-----Original Message-----
From: White81429(a)aol.com <White81429(a)aol.com>
To: CLEMMER-L(a)rootsweb.com <CLEMMER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 12:20 PM
Subject: [CLEMMER-L] 1734 Clemmer
>Saw a list of 1734 Philadelphia taxables. One Hans Kleiner was on the
list,
>but no Clemmer. Anyone have Henrich or Andreas Clemmer on a Philadelphia
>list shortly after they arrived in 1730 on the Alex & Ann ? Thanks
Charles
>Hite Hite=========Donna, enjoyed your Clemmer data at
>www.micronet.net/users/~jb/
>
>
>==== CLEMMER Mailing List ====
>Send the following address to those who might want to join us;
> http://clemmer.org/clemmerlist.html
>
Edwin, your William Lawson Clemmer is in the book < OUR KIN >. Lenny
Clemmer says he is a grandson of John and Susan Lineberger Clemmer. Write
Lenmny for details. ---Charles Hite
Saw a list of 1734 Philadelphia taxables. One Hans Kleiner was on the list,
but no Clemmer. Anyone have Henrich or Andreas Clemmer on a Philadelphia
list shortly after they arrived in 1730 on the Alex & Ann ? Thanks Charles
Hite Hite=========Donna, enjoyed your Clemmer data at
www.micronet.net/users/~jb/
Published in the Stuart, VA - Enterprise 17 November 1999
ANN K. KNOWLES
Ann Klemmer Knowles, 78, of Oakhurst Drive, Stuart, died Monday,
November 15, 1999, at Patrick Community Hospital {Stuart VA}
She was born in Illinois on February 5, 1921, and was a daughter of the
late Hans A. and Pearl Wetta Klemmer. She was preceded in death by two
brothers, William F. Klemmer and Hans A. Klemmer Jr.
Surviving are her husband, Roy E. Knowles of the home and several nieces
and nephews.
The family will receive friends tonight (Wednesday) from 7 to 8:30 p.m.
at Moody Funeral Home in Stuart. Funeral services and interment will be
held at a later date in Illinois.
Memorial contributions may be made to the Vesta Rescue Squad, General
Delivery, Vesta, VA 24177; or to JEB Stuart Rescue Squad, P. O. 340,
Patrick Springs, VA 24133
Danny L. Clemmer
Clemmer LIst Owner
http://www.clemmer.org
>Thank you Bill. This is very exciting. I have never had a feeling of
>connection with the Pennsylvania or Texas Clemmers because none of them
>seemed to have the Canadian link. I will follow your suggestions
>immediately. After the first of the year, I intend to pursue border
>crossing information as I understand that the papers that were filed
>everytime the border was crossed are quite extensive.
>
>Connie Dugger
>
Connie:
Leon Clemmer's posting raises an interesting point. None of my Klemmer
ancestors in North America or Germany (back to 1710) used the "C". Further
in Waterloo there are still Clemmers, and even a "Clemmer Industries".
These Clemmers have perplexed me, now I have the answer.
I would suggest that Clemmer is indicative of descent from the Pennsylvania
group. As an interesting point my Klemmers were Lutheran and later Baptist,
Evangelical, never Mennonite.
These two indicators may suggest which way to go in your research.
Bill
IS THIS ANY HELP ?
CLEMMER - CANADA
Sarah Clemmer ' s greatgreat grandfather Valentine Clemmer
came to America i n 1717 and settled in Montgomery County, Pa. His
grandson,Henry (4-1783- 8-13-1866) , son of Abraham marr i ed to Maria
(Mosser) moved to Waterloo County, Ontario,Canada in 1823.
Henry married Sarah Bergey (3-01-1786- 4-01-1869) daughter of Issac
(1734-1805) and Susannah Hunsberger Bergey.
Isaac's father was Henry and Sarah's son, Abram (3-02-18197-15-1908) was
married 10-28-1845 to Lydia Shantz (3-01-1825- 1887) daughter of Jacob
(8-15-1797- 7-21-1871) and Susannah Schneider (6-04-1804- 4-02-1837) Shantz.
Lydia's grandparents were Christian and Harrah Paul Shantz, the maternal
grandparents of Josiah Martin.
Abram and Lydia Clemmer were the parents of Sarah Clemmer and the
following children all born in Waterloo County, Ontario, Canada.
Susannah Clrmmer (7-23-1847- 7-17-1848)
Sarah Clemmer (10-18-1848- 3-13-1921)
Amos Clemmer (9-15-1850- 4-26-1867)
Menno Clemmer (9-5-1852- 4-26-1867) Amos and Menno both died from eating
wild parsnips.
JOSIAH MARTIN - SARAH CLEMMER
Married November 29, 1868
The family lived in Waterloo County, Ontario until 1888 when restless
Josiah moved his family to Osceola County, Iowa. A group from Ontario
who broke with the Wishler Mennonite Church settled there and developed
farms in the area. Josiah was an ordained minister. The winters were
cold, but Josiah was hardy and his children told of how he would drive
the team to May City, without mittens,' when it was 40' below zero.
The house was small 1 , the family large, and the urge to move on raged
in Josiah's v e i n s . After nine years, the price of land had
increased so the farm was sold, a profit gained and they moved on to
South Haven, Michigan. There they had three years of fruit farming. The
boys disliked working with fruit and the opportunity to make a trade
with Mr. Fenn for property near Stanton, Michigan in 1899 was a chance
for Josiah to move again.
Thank you Bill. This is very exciting. I have never had a feeling of
connection with the Pennsylvania or Texas Clemmers because none of them
seemed to have the Canadian link. I will follow your suggestions
immediately. After the first of the year, I intend to pursue border
crossing information as I understand that the papers that were filed
everytime the border was crossed are quite extensive.
Connie Dugger
William Tooke wrote:
>
> Connie:
> I have about 150 Klemmers and many more of the collateral family members
> but I don't have a Jeannette. Given the Waterloo county connection I
> believe we are talking the descendants of a John Klemmer (who my records
> say went west) or the descendants of Jacob or Frederick Klemmer who settled
> in Michigan. But I would venture to say we are related.
>
> You might want to get a genealogist to look up the 1881 census for Ontario,
> also the civil birth records are available for that time.
>
> Bill
>
> At 07:33 AM 11/24/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >I have pulled a blank researching my mother's Klemmer side of the
> >family. I do know that her mother was born in Kitchener, Ontario,( my
> >aunt's birth certificate says Berlin, Ontario)....JEAN(N)ETTE KLEMMER
> >(B. 7/12/1878?) m. JOSEPH GRASSER in Toledo, OH. My mother has some
> >childhood recollections of going to Alpena, MI to visit family and that
> >her grandfather headed west to seek his fortune. I think that her
> >mother's name was Elizabeth Habermehl, born in Germany.
> >
> >I would be ecstatic if this was the same link that William Tooke is pursuing.
> >
> >Connie Dugger
> >
> >William Tooke wrote:
> >>
> >> Members of the Klemmer list:
> >> I have traced my ancestors to a Hans Jacob Klemmer
> >> born in 1710 in Neckarweighen (on the Neckar river in Baden-Wurttemburg).
> >> >From then until the 1840 they resided in Baden-Wurttemberg, at which time
> >> they emigrated to Waterloo county, Ontario, Canada. Does anyone have any
> >> research going on in either place?
> >>
> >> Bill
> >> wmtooke(a)bmts.com
> >>
> >> /
> >> O///
> >> <|o>
> >> /_\
> >> | \
> >>
> >> ==== CLEMMER Mailing List ====
> >> Who is the moderator?
> >> http://clemmer.org/
> >
> >
> >==== CLEMMER Mailing List ====
> >Is your ancestor's obituary online? Go to http://clemmer.org to find out.
> >
> >
> >
>
> ==== CLEMMER Mailing List ====
> Send the following address to those who might want to join us;
> http://clemmer.org/clemmerlist.html
Connie:
I have about 150 Klemmers and many more of the collateral family members
but I don't have a Jeannette. Given the Waterloo county connection I
believe we are talking the descendants of a John Klemmer (who my records
say went west) or the descendants of Jacob or Frederick Klemmer who settled
in Michigan. But I would venture to say we are related.
You might want to get a genealogist to look up the 1881 census for Ontario,
also the civil birth records are available for that time.
Bill
At 07:33 AM 11/24/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I have pulled a blank researching my mother's Klemmer side of the
>family. I do know that her mother was born in Kitchener, Ontario,( my
>aunt's birth certificate says Berlin, Ontario)....JEAN(N)ETTE KLEMMER
>(B. 7/12/1878?) m. JOSEPH GRASSER in Toledo, OH. My mother has some
>childhood recollections of going to Alpena, MI to visit family and that
>her grandfather headed west to seek his fortune. I think that her
>mother's name was Elizabeth Habermehl, born in Germany.
>
>I would be ecstatic if this was the same link that William Tooke is pursuing.
>
>Connie Dugger
>
>William Tooke wrote:
>>
>> Members of the Klemmer list:
>> I have traced my ancestors to a Hans Jacob Klemmer
>> born in 1710 in Neckarweighen (on the Neckar river in Baden-Wurttemburg).
>> >From then until the 1840 they resided in Baden-Wurttemberg, at which time
>> they emigrated to Waterloo county, Ontario, Canada. Does anyone have any
>> research going on in either place?
>>
>> Bill
>> wmtooke(a)bmts.com
>>
>> /
>> O///
>> <|o>
>> /_\
>> | \
>>
>> ==== CLEMMER Mailing List ====
>> Who is the moderator?
>> http://clemmer.org/
>
>
>==== CLEMMER Mailing List ====
>Is your ancestor's obituary online? Go to http://clemmer.org to find out.
>
>
>
I have pulled a blank researching my mother's Klemmer side of the
family. I do know that her mother was born in Kitchener, Ontario,( my
aunt's birth certificate says Berlin, Ontario)....JEAN(N)ETTE KLEMMER
(B. 7/12/1878?) m. JOSEPH GRASSER in Toledo, OH. My mother has some
childhood recollections of going to Alpena, MI to visit family and that
her grandfather headed west to seek his fortune. I think that her
mother's name was Elizabeth Habermehl, born in Germany.
I would be ecstatic if this was the same link that William Tooke is pursuing.
Connie Dugger
William Tooke wrote:
>
> Members of the Klemmer list:
> I have traced my ancestors to a Hans Jacob Klemmer
> born in 1710 in Neckarweighen (on the Neckar river in Baden-Wurttemburg).
> >From then until the 1840 they resided in Baden-Wurttemberg, at which time
> they emigrated to Waterloo county, Ontario, Canada. Does anyone have any
> research going on in either place?
>
> Bill
> wmtooke(a)bmts.com
>
> /
> O///
> <|o>
> /_\
> | \
>
> ==== CLEMMER Mailing List ====
> Who is the moderator?
> http://clemmer.org/
Members of the Klemmer list:
I have traced my ancestors to a Hans Jacob Klemmer
born in 1710 in Neckarweighen (on the Neckar river in Baden-Wurttemburg).
>From then until the 1840 they resided in Baden-Wurttemberg, at which time
they emigrated to Waterloo county, Ontario, Canada. Does anyone have any
research going on in either place?
Bill
wmtooke(a)bmts.com
/
O///
<|o>
/_\
| \
Can anyone help Bill? < Subj: Kemmer Date: 99-11-19 From:
wmtooke(a)bmts.com (William Tooke) To: WHITE81429(a)aol.com Mr. Hite & Mr.
Clemmer: I was excited to come across the web page for Klemmer genealogy. I
have traced my ancestors to a Hans Jacob Klemmer born in 1710 in Nec
rweighen (on the Neckar river in Baden-Wurttemburg). His father was a Jacob
Klemmer. It seems to me that Ludwigshaffen, where your family is from, is
near Neckarweighen. Do you have any further information about the Klemmer
families in that area at that time? Bill wmtooke(a)bmts.com>>