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Can any of you Clemens folks help a distant cousin? Looking for family
associated with Benjamin Clemens PA>AR (1799-1860). Surnames include Bland,
Stell, Barrett, Coleman, Morgan. Thanks!
THERE HAS TO BE A CONNECTION SOMEWHERE.WILL KEEP TRYING
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Tober" <firedevil_ca(a)yahoo.com>
To: <CLEMENS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [CLEMENS] Letter re Clemens Family, Palatine
> Mel,
> Think I sent Dennis's letter to you but what the heck!
> No I don't have any of the names you mentioned in my
> family data. Sorry.
>
> Karen
> --- Mel LETT <ttellem(a)netins.net> wrote:
> > WAS THERE ANY CRISPINS,NEWMANS OR BURTS WITH YOUR
> > CLEMONS ?THANKS, MEL
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
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> your heritage!
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Hi Karen,
Well, it certainly kicks the middle out of a great tale. I had wondered why an Englishman
would travel to Holland to live, but never put too much more thought into it. It seemed even
odder that they would hook up with a bunch of German speaking Mennonites to travel to America,
I suppose it's possible, but odd. So, where does that leave us, is it possible to look at this
bible, is there anyone else that has claims against the "Clement of Toft" story?
Dennis
Karen Tober wrote:
>
> Does anyone one have any comments re following letter
> that was sent to me:
> Dear Karen, I see that your posting on the Clemens
> family of the more remote generations of the Clemens
> family has an error which I believe you really will
> want to correct.
>
> Back in about 1921, near Kitchener, Ont., there was a
> Clemens family reunion. They had a presentation made
> by a man named "James Waldemar Clemens" who claimed to
> be a famous genealogist and a member of several
> Royal Societies. His genealogy, claiming that the
> Clemens rose from a remote ancestor called "Clement of
> Toft" through several generations which
> included Gregory Clement who was executed in 1660 for
> having signed the death sentence for King Charles I of
> England in 1649, and including a "William Clement of
> Wissingsett" who lived in Norfolk, was apparently a
> total fabrication; those people existed, but they
> weren't a part of Gerhardt's family. There are
> absolutely no REAL documents to show an English origin
> for Gerhardt Clemens or his family. Unfortunately,
> the publication of that fraudulent genealogy has been
> copied and published many times, and probably is
> widely believed because of its wide publication.
> There are no ethical genealogical publications by
> Waldemar Clemens; even the Royal Societies in which
> its author claimed membership have never heard of him!
> He was in all likelihood a fraud.
>
> I have seen a copy of the family Bible (in German) of
> Johannes Clemens, one of the sons of Gerhardt Clemens.
> There is a faded marginal reference to a
> Jacob Clemens, which may or may not have been a
> reference to Gerhardt's father--it's not legible
> enough to tell for certain. Johannes refers to
> his own birth date in this Bible as August 24, 1707,
> and then makes a statement which has been incorrectly
> interpreted as a place named "Bardolome". No such
> place exists; Johannes was apparently referring to
> the date of August 24th as being an anniversary of the
> St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, when 100,000 or so
> Protestants were killed due to a plot by the Queen
> Mother of France in 1574, a date which would be
> familiar to all Mennonites! The old German writing is
> clearly "Bartolome".
>
> Members of the Mennonite Clemens family appear in the
> 1662 Anabaptist censuses which were undertaken when a
> Catholic family took over the Pfalz and decided to
> expell all its Protestant and Anabaptist inhabitants
> (they were given five years to leave). The Clemens in
> this are referred to as
> "Clemensz." This is a Dutch patronymic form
> Clemenszoon = "Son of
> Clemens"), which makes me believe that the family was
> originally from
> Brabant/Flanders/Netherlands.
>
> You will be doing a big favor to genealogists by
> correcting your
> posting. Gerhardt Clemens did not have English
> forebears! Thank you.
>
> Elaine Jeter
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> ==============================
> Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project:
> Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time.
> http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com
Mel,
Think I sent Dennis's letter to you but what the heck!
No I don't have any of the names you mentioned in my
family data. Sorry.
Karen
--- Mel LETT <ttellem(a)netins.net> wrote:
> WAS THERE ANY CRISPINS,NEWMANS OR BURTS WITH YOUR
> CLEMONS ?THANKS, MEL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Hi Dennis,
I don't know where the Bible would be stored, if it
still exists. I know the Clemens account book is in
archives in Pennsylvania so perhaps so is the bible??
The story seemed believable to me as Gregory/George
was beheaded and his sons fled to Holland They were
puitans. Supposedly sons John and Jacob immigrated to
America but Jacob returned to England married and
again fled to Holland due to religious persecution and
his family was born there (Gerhardt and Jacob and
John)looking at the history of that time it all seemed
possible to me. I have emailed Elaine Jered to see if
shr could give me further references but haven't heard
back. Thea Schwenk, another Clemens researcher told me
that Elaine is a very thorough genealogist and she,
Thera, also only dates ger material starting with
Gerhardt. All DUTCh to me, so I just seperated it from
my main family file and added it to a new one.
Karen
> Hi Karen,
> > Well, it certainly kicks the middle out of a great
> tale. I had wondered
> why an Englishman
> > would travel to Holland to live, but never put too
> much more thought into
> it. It seemed even
> > odder that they would hook up with a bunch of
> German speaking Mennonites
> to travel to America,
> > I suppose it's possible, but odd. So, where does
> that leave us, is it
> possible to look at this
> > bible, is there anyone else that has claims
> against the "Clement of Toft"
> story?
> > Dennis
> >
> > Karen Tober wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone one have any comments re following
> letter
> > > that was sent to me:
> > > Dear Karen, I see that your posting on the
> Clemens
> > > family of the more remote generations of the
> Clemens
> > > family has an error which I believe you really
> will
> > > want to correct.
> > >
> > > Back in about 1921, near Kitchener, Ont., there
> was a
> > > Clemens family reunion. They had a presentation
> made
> > > by a man named "James Waldemar Clemens" who
> claimed to
> > > be a famous genealogist and a member of several
> > > Royal Societies. His genealogy, claiming that
> the
> > > Clemens rose from a remote ancestor called
> "Clement of
> > > Toft" through several generations which
> > > included Gregory Clement who was executed in
> 1660 for
> > > having signed the death sentence for King
> Charles I of
> > > England in 1649, and including a "William
> Clement of
> > > Wissingsett" who lived in Norfolk, was
> apparently a
> > > total fabrication; those people existed, but
> they
> > > weren't a part of Gerhardt's family. There are
> > > absolutely no REAL documents to show an English
> origin
> > > for Gerhardt Clemens or his family.
> Unfortunately,
> > > the publication of that fraudulent genealogy has
> been
> > > copied and published many times, and probably is
> > > widely believed because of its wide publication.
> > > There are no ethical genealogical publications
> by
> > > Waldemar Clemens; even the Royal Societies in
> which
> > > its author claimed membership have never heard
> of him!
> > > He was in all likelihood a fraud.
> > >
> > > I have seen a copy of the family Bible (in
> German) of
> > > Johannes Clemens, one of the sons of Gerhardt
> Clemens.
> > > There is a faded marginal reference to a
> > > Jacob Clemens, which may or may not have been a
> > > reference to Gerhardt's father--it's not legible
> > > enough to tell for certain. Johannes refers to
> > > his own birth date in this Bible as August 24,
> 1707,
> > > and then makes a statement which has been
> incorrectly
> > > interpreted as a place named "Bardolome". No
> such
> > > place exists; Johannes was apparently referring
> to
> > > the date of August 24th as being an anniversary
> of the
> > > St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, when 100,000 or
> so
> > > Protestants were killed due to a plot by the
> Queen
> > > Mother of France in 1574, a date which would be
> > > familiar to all Mennonites! The old German
> writing is
> > > clearly "Bartolome".
> > >
> > > Members of the Mennonite Clemens family appear
> in the
> > > 1662 Anabaptist censuses which were undertaken
> when a
> > > Catholic family took over the Pfalz and decided
> to
> > > expell all its Protestant and Anabaptist
> inhabitants
> > > (they were given five years to leave). The
> Clemens in
> > > this are referred to as
> > > "Clemensz." This is a Dutch patronymic form
> > > Clemenszoon = "Son of
> > > Clemens"), which makes me believe that the
> family was
> > > originally from
> > > Brabant/Flanders/Netherlands.
> > >
> > > You will be doing a big favor to genealogists by
> > > correcting your
> > > posting. Gerhardt Clemens did not have English
> > > forebears! Thank you.
> > >
> > > Elaine Jeter
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > > ==============================
> > > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project:
> > > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time.
> > > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com
> >
> >
> > ==============================
> > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project:
> > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time.
> > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com
>
>
> ==============================
> Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of
> family history
> learning and how-to articles on the Internet.
> http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Does anyone one have any comments re following letter
that was sent to me:
Dear Karen, I see that your posting on the Clemens
family of the more remote generations of the Clemens
family has an error which I believe you really will
want to correct.
Back in about 1921, near Kitchener, Ont., there was a
Clemens family reunion. They had a presentation made
by a man named "James Waldemar Clemens" who claimed to
be a famous genealogist and a member of several
Royal Societies. His genealogy, claiming that the
Clemens rose from a remote ancestor called "Clement of
Toft" through several generations which
included Gregory Clement who was executed in 1660 for
having signed the death sentence for King Charles I of
England in 1649, and including a "William Clement of
Wissingsett" who lived in Norfolk, was apparently a
total fabrication; those people existed, but they
weren't a part of Gerhardt's family. There are
absolutely no REAL documents to show an English origin
for Gerhardt Clemens or his family. Unfortunately,
the publication of that fraudulent genealogy has been
copied and published many times, and probably is
widely believed because of its wide publication.
There are no ethical genealogical publications by
Waldemar Clemens; even the Royal Societies in which
its author claimed membership have never heard of him!
He was in all likelihood a fraud.
I have seen a copy of the family Bible (in German) of
Johannes Clemens, one of the sons of Gerhardt Clemens.
There is a faded marginal reference to a
Jacob Clemens, which may or may not have been a
reference to Gerhardt's father--it's not legible
enough to tell for certain. Johannes refers to
his own birth date in this Bible as August 24, 1707,
and then makes a statement which has been incorrectly
interpreted as a place named "Bardolome". No such
place exists; Johannes was apparently referring to
the date of August 24th as being an anniversary of the
St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, when 100,000 or so
Protestants were killed due to a plot by the Queen
Mother of France in 1574, a date which would be
familiar to all Mennonites! The old German writing is
clearly "Bartolome".
Members of the Mennonite Clemens family appear in the
1662 Anabaptist censuses which were undertaken when a
Catholic family took over the Pfalz and decided to
expell all its Protestant and Anabaptist inhabitants
(they were given five years to leave). The Clemens in
this are referred to as
"Clemensz." This is a Dutch patronymic form
Clemenszoon = "Son of
Clemens"), which makes me believe that the family was
originally from
Brabant/Flanders/Netherlands.
You will be doing a big favor to genealogists by
correcting your
posting. Gerhardt Clemens did not have English
forebears! Thank you.
Elaine Jeter
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/